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Feinstein and Rogers: No Clemency For Snowden

Ars Technica reports, probably to no one's surprise, that U.S. elected officials are unlikely to start seeing Edward Snowden as a righteous whistleblower rather than a traitor to the U.S. government. From the article:"[Sunday], the chairwoman of the Senate Intelligence Committee, Dianne Feinstein (D-CA), and her House counterpart, Mike Rogers (R-MI), both emphasized there would be no mercy coming from Washington. 'He was trusted; he stripped our system; he had an opportunity—if what he was, was a whistle-blower—to pick up the phone and call the House Intelligence Committee, the Senate Intelligence Committee, and say I have some information,' Feinstein told CBS' Face The Nation. 'But that didn’t happen. He’s done this enormous disservice to our country, and I think the answer is no clemency.'"

27 of 504 comments (clear)

  1. At which point by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Insightful

    He'd be kept quiet one way or another.

    1. Re:At which point by Kazoo+the+Clown · · Score: 5, Insightful

      No, don't stop voting. Just stop voting for Republicans OR Democrats. Write someone in if that is the only options. At least we could make them pass a law against write-ins, if it turned out write ins got more votes than either of them. At least you send a message. If you don't vote, you can't be differentiated from someone too lazy or too uninformed to vote. I want them to know I'm not too lazy to vote AND that I'm not voting for them.

    2. Re:At which point by TheRaven64 · · Score: 5, Insightful

      That's why he's telling you to vote for a third party candidate, even if it's a write in. Your candidate almost certainly won't win, but now the winner will have one more vote against them and find it that little bit harder to claim that they have a mandate. It's easy to claim that you represent the people when 25% vote for you, 20% vote for you, and 55% don't bother to vote. It's much harder when 25% vote for you, 20% vote for the other guy, and 10% vote for write ins. Now only 45% of those that bothered to vote voted for you, not 55%.

      --
      I am TheRaven on Soylent News
  2. Yeah, right... by msauve · · Score: 5, Insightful

    "f what he was, was a whistle-blowerâ"to pick up the phone and call the House Intelligence Committee, the Senate Intelligence Committee,"

    Those thugs continue to support government spying on citizens. Whistleblowing does nothing unless it's brought to the attention of someone who both cares and is in a position to do something.

    BTW, Mike Rogers is complaining that "Federal data hub threatens privacy," with regard to the Federal Data Services Hub, a component of the health insurance exchanges created by Obamacare, but supports the NSA. He's a disingenuous hypocrite.

    --
    "National Security is the chief cause of national insecurity." - Celine's First Law
    1. Re:Yeah, right... by Captain_Cozmic · · Score: 5, Insightful

      Most likely Snowden would have disappeared and no one would ever know about this massive criminal operation taking place. And both Feinstein and Rogers act like little children saying "I don't like the way you play. I'm taking my ball and going home." Neither of them should be allowed in Congress for their violation of their oath of office. More appropriate would be serious jail time for their crimes in allowing this to take place.

  3. And what good would that have done? by JeffOwl · · Score: 5, Insightful

    Does anyone actually believe that if he had gone to the Senate or the House that anything would change, that the concerns would have been addressed?

    1. Re:And what good would that have done? by poodlediagram · · Score: 5, Insightful

      Quite agree.

      Given that James Clapper was perfectly willing to lie to Congress, what would the NSA administration have done to a 29 year old system administrator, had he aired his views to them? He would have been sidelined, fired or arrested, that's what. And we would be none the wiser.

      It is amusing that politicians will express the need for public discussion about NSA surveillance and then condemn Snowden in the next sentence. You can't have one without the other.

      In my opinion, he is the definitive whistle-blower. He had only one way to reveal the NSA/GCHQ excesses and revealed them in the right way. Further, he gained nothing personally from all this: no money and he seems to dislike the attention. And spending a month in a Russian airport can't be much fun.

      He has my gratitude and admiration, and I wish him well.

    2. Re:And what good would that have done? by countach · · Score: 5, Insightful

      Yeah, they ought to put up a statue of him in Washington Mall. The only difference between him and the founding fathers is the founding fathers got away with overthrowing the corrupt establishment, and he didn't.

  4. 'He was trusted; he stripped our system...' by SpaghettiPattern · · Score: 5, Insightful

    'He was trusted; he stripped our system...' Snowden could claim exactly that against the NSA. This is beyond the pot calling the kettle black.

    --

    I hadn't the slightest objection to his spending his time planning massacres for the bourgeoisie... (P.G. Wodehouse)
    1. Re:'He was trusted; he stripped our system...' by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Insightful

      Will you please stop propagating the 'spying on polical leaders' talking point?

      It seems to me as a (conscious?) distraction effort by various media. The real issue is mass surveillance on the general population. Polticial leaders are the most standard targets of all, and that relevation can be shrugged off with all kinds of rhetorics a while from now, when the biggest public outrage has subsided.

  5. If he had reported it through official channels... by the+grace+of+R'hllor · · Score: 5, Insightful

    Especially channels amenable to spying on US citizens, we would never have heard of Snowden or the spy programs. If he had then tried to publish via other means, neither would his family.

    At the risk of Godwin:
    If you were, say, a German administrator learning about the death camps and being absolutely appalled, reporting it to any senior Nazi official wouldn't do much good.

  6. clemency? by duckintheface · · Score: 5, Insightful

    There is a lot more that Snowden has not released yet. He is wisely using the drip, drip, drip method of disclosure so the press and public have time to digest each successive piece of information. Before it's done, it will become clear that the House and Senate oversight committees were either derelict in their duties or complicit in illegal activities. They either knew or they didn't. Either way, eventually they will be the ones asking for clemency.

    --
    "He took a duck in the face at 250 knots." -- William Gibson, Pattern Recognition
    1. Re:clemency? by Noryungi · · Score: 5, Insightful

      Or, as the Brits used to say:

      Either they knew, and, therefore, they are not fit to oversee the NSA. Or they did not know, and, therefore, they are not fit to oversee the NSA.

      --
      The right to offend is far more important than the right not to be offended. (Rowan Atkinson)
    2. Re:clemency? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Insightful

      ' Feinstein told CBS' Face The Nation. 'But that didn’t happen. He’s done this enormous disservice to our country, and I think the answer is no clemency.'

      Translation: Mr Snowden embarrased me and all my no-a-count friends, so we are going to be a cunt about it.

    3. Re:clemency? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Insightful

      The parent is absolutely correct in the translation...
      The real issue here has to be the realization of who has done the damage and disservice (Feinstein is at the top of the list). Basically her response is that of the bankrobber who is angry and blaiming his friends for turning him in rather than himself for being caught with the cash. This is a crook not wanting to face her crime.
      As to Snowden, no argument can be rationally made that any benefit exists for the USA to continue this snit by Feinstein etc. Every day they leave him in Moscow they damage the USA greatly. The best and finest solution would be to bring Mr Snowden home completely free to do as he proposed and even to build a monument to him on the mall. Honestly those same politicians who built the monument to Dr. Martin Luther King on the mall were in many cases the ones who had opposed every effort to do decent things he asked for. I lived through those times I know! Let us hope that they don't wait until Mr Snowden is dead to build the monument he so richly deserves. He should be treated as a national hero!

    4. Re:clemency? by PopeRatzo · · Score: 5, Insightful

      There has to be a reason why the US hasn't sent in special forces to extricate Snowden already.

      Send US special forces into Russia? I don't think so. There might be some pushback from - I don't know, maybe Russia?

      What do you think the US would do if Russian special forces ran an op in Chicago?

      --
      You are welcome on my lawn.
    5. Re:clemency? by TheCarp · · Score: 5, Insightful

      > He is wisely using the drip, drip, drip method of disclosure so the press and public have time to
      > digest each successive piece of information

      Not only that, but he gave the people in power time to LIE about it, and then get caught.

      If he gave it out all at once, they could go over it, come up with their response and their lies and nobody would be able to refute them. However, forcing them to make their admissions and coverup lies one at a time put them at a huge disadvantage.

      It was masterful.

      --
      "I opened my eyes, and everything went dark again"
    6. Re:clemency? by hoboroadie · · Score: 5, Insightful

      I would like to think that we'd understand.

      -Haaah! you make me laugh. (do you post from Fort Mead?) Most sensible folks in the Western Hemisphere seem to concur that Snowden did a great service to The People. Feinstein has been a well-known enemy of freedom for most of my adult life, I guess I'll be adding Rogers to my watch-list.

      --
      They feared that it could be used to suppress protest or support unpopular rule.
    7. Re:clemency? by ObsessiveMathsFreak · · Score: 5, Insightful

      Basically her response is that of the bankrobber who is angry and blaiming his friends for turning him in rather than himself for being caught with the cash.

      The response of the entire administration has been the response of a spoiled, petulant teenager.

      In fact, this has been the response of the administration -- and the previous one -- to just about any development or obstancle they don't like.

      The US is no longer a nation of laws. It is a nation of men (and some women) who are impulsive, incompetent, largely juvenile, disrespectful of their offices, and contemptuous of both the public and the law. The Administration is being run by people with the mentality and motives of a cast of Saturday morning cartoon, or late Thursday night TV villains. Unfortunately these people have one common talent -- they are all connected to each other like threads in a rotten carpet.

      Not a nation of laws. A nation of men. And a particularly base and uninspiring kind of man at that. Central and South American countries have been run by such men for centuries. Run into the ground. The US, for all its power and potential, is now being run into the ground as well.

      The end result is probably something like Singapore. Ostensibly free, but scratch the surface and you quickly hit authoritarianism and an oligarchy of connected families and companies. The problem is, most of the US governing class would see little wrong with such an outcome.

      --
      May the Maths Be with you!
  7. He Blew the Whistle on Them by Jah-Wren+Ryel · · Score: 5, Insightful

    Every time Rogers opens his mouth he says that the intelligence committee was fully briefed and that they knew what was going on. What Feinstein and Rogers are implicitly admitting is that Snowden didn't just blow the whistle on the NSA. He blew it on the intelligence committee too for not doing their job of oversight.

    Its just silly to think he should have reported to them that they were corrupt and/or incompetent.

    --
    When information is power, privacy is freedom.
  8. Yeah, right. by jcr · · Score: 5, Insightful

    Feinstein knows full well that this country doesn't have a functioning justice system. If we did, she'd be behind bars herself.

    -jcr

    --
    The only title of honor that a tyrant can grant is "Enemy of the State."
  9. who's asking them? by kharchenko · · Score: 5, Insightful

    Why exactly do they get to have a say in this? Why are we even listening to them?
    Feinstein and Rogers are the two key figures responsible for most of these violations in the first place. They are the ones who tacitly sanctioned wholesale violation of the constitutional right against unreasonable searches. Yet their opinion on Snowden's guilt is somehow all over the news. It's amazing that the press is quoting Rogers' preaches on how Snowden has broken the law and needs to be persecuted, when both of these bozos voted to grant retroactive immunity for warrantless wiretaps they've sanctioned under earlier administration. As far as I am concerned, asking for their opinion is like asking a robber on what to do with a good Samaritan who stopped the robbery.

  10. Snowden & rest: by Mister+Liberty · · Score: 5, Insightful

    No clemency for Feinstein and Rogers.

  11. It no longer matters by water-and-sewer · · Score: 5, Insightful

    The cart has run away with the horse. It doesn't matter what they do now, he's a popular hero whose reputation is growing as fast as popular discontent/outrage is growing against the tactics of the NSA and the failures of the administration to stop it or even come clean about who knows what and when.

    This is a huge problem for the government - once the popular hero becomes truly a hero, their every effort to try him or bring him to justice deepens the hole they're in, and god help the US government if Snowden goes to jail - he'll immediately become a demigod.

    They should use this as a wake-up call and change tactics or hopefully even policy. But it doesn't seem like that's going to happen.

    Run, Snowden, run.

    --
    If this were Usenet, I'd killfile the lot of you.
  12. US regime busy legitimizing NSA transgressions by boorack · · Score: 5, Insightful

    In the meantime Feinstein is busy pushing a new bill through Congress. It will not only legitmize NSA spying on everyone but also impose even harsher penalties for anyone who dares speak out. Despite of majority of citizens now being clearly against it (despite of all bullshit and propaganda thrown at them by corporate media). I know it makes many Americans angry but I don't see much difference between civil liberties in US and China right now, the only one being that US regime is far superior in concealing itself behind "freedom and democracy" mirage.

    1. Re:US regime busy legitimizing NSA transgressions by BlueStrat · · Score: 5, Insightful

      I know it makes many Americans angry but I don't see much difference between civil liberties in US and China right now, the only one being that US regime is far superior in concealing itself behind "freedom and democracy" mirage.

      Not all that long ago, I would have been one of those angry and would have replied with a scathing rebuttal.

      These days? No anger. Not at you, certainly.

      I think what I feel would more closely track in nature with grief at loss. I don't believe that the US is totally lost. However, I believe it's government has been largely suborned from within.

      As I've written in other posts in the past, the metric is not the particular architecture of any system of government (aka force), ie communism, capitalism, fascism, socialism, left, right, etc etc. It is where, on the scale extending from anarchy to tyranny, that system is, Any form of government can become tyrannical, and history shows this is a general rule, when government becomes too powerful, controls too much of people's lives, and unduly limits individual choices.

      Strat

      --
      Progressivism (aka US 'Liberalism'): Ideas so good they need a police/surveillance-state to enforce.
  13. Confusion by sociocapitalist · · Score: 5, Insightful

    It's not mutually exclusive.

    "..as a righteous whistleblower rather than a traitor to the U.S. government."

    'The government' is not the same thing as 'the country'.

    Snowden is..

    ...a righteous whistleblower.

    ...a traitor to the U.S. government.

    ...not a traitor to the US and its people.

    --
    blindly antisocialist = antisocial