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Music Industry Issues Take Down Notices to 50 Major Lyrics Sites

alphadogg writes "A music industry group is warning some 50 website that post song lyrics that they need to be licensed or face the music, possibly in the form of a lawsuit. The National Music Publishers Association said Monday that it sent take-down notices to what it claims are 50 websites that post lyrics to songs and generate ad revenue but may not be licensed to do so. The allegedly infringing sites were identified based on a complicated algorithm developed by a researcher at the University of Georgia." The "complicated algorithm" (basis statistics using Excel and Google) is described in the NMPA's "Undesirable Lyric Website List." Anyone remember lyrics.ch?

281 comments

  1. Greed! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Insightful

    Pure and simple.

    1. Re: Greed! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Funny

      Well we all know how much lyrics sites lead to a loss in sales for these companies. I personally print out the lyrics and scripts for every piece of media I'm interested in. It's way better than listening to a song or watching a movie obviously!

    2. Re:Greed! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Insightful

      Yes, but this case - on the part of the websites attempting to generate ad revenue. I don't see a problem with them preventing folk making money from other peoples copyrighted works.

    3. Re:Greed! by BreakBad · · Score: 5, Funny

      The last thing I would describe modern lyrics as is 'valuable'. Surely they must be talking about Johnny Cash.

    4. Re:Greed! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      Well, considering that the websites that are posting the lyrics are profiting from the ad money....

      Also, those things are so overloaded with ads and badly designed... I don't feel so bad for them.

    5. Re:Greed! by Barefoot+Monkey · · Score: 5, Insightful

      Why don't the copyright-holders publish lyrics for everything on the web themselves? Then they'd kill demand for other lyrics sites and get ad revenues.

    6. Re:Greed! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Insightful

      So is the music industry offering a better alternative? Clearly some people want the lyrics. As usual, the "industry" ignores a demand and instead turns to lawsuits.

    7. Re:Greed! by king+neckbeard · · Score: 4, Interesting

      That's not sensible reasoning. The point of copyright is to encourage authorship. Someone else making money doesn't matter if it doesn't prevent the copyright holder from making money in any way, and there is no indication that these sites will reduce authorship of new works.

      --
      This is my signature. There are many like it, but this one is mine.
    8. Re:Greed! by Charliemopps · · Score: 2

      But they didn't want to. They had no business nor plans to a business to sell that work. There's a lot of argument about weather "intellectual property" can or can not be stolen since it's not a real object. But if that property isn't even for sale, it most certainly can not be stolen. If anything these sites are probably adding to the value of the real property... the song.

    9. Re:Greed! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0, Troll

      Whether right or wrong, it's their prerogative. Some people want the source code to OS X or Windows or nVidia drivers... does not mean that those companies have to provide it.

    10. Re:Greed! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Insightful

      "It does stop them from making money."

      No it doesn't.

      "They are not able to sell the lyrics now even if they want to"

      They never wanted to.

      "Love it or hate it, the take-downs are the right thing."

      No, they're wrong.

      The leeches are those who stole from the public and got copyrights extended and gave nothing back for it.

    11. Re:Greed! by jalopezp · · Score: 0

      You don't think any revenue was lost? Imagine the people that really need to know the lyrics to a song. Every time one of them looks up the lyrics on the web, they no longer need to buy the album to know what the song says. Even if the lyrics on the recorded song are difficult to understand, they may have gone to a licensed lyrics site and earned them revenue through advertisement.

      Looking through lyricsseal.com you learn that lyrics sites generate over 212m unique visitors per month, and that 7/25 of those sites are unlicensed. Doing maths, they explain that this means that over 50% of all lyrics page views are worldwide (not a typo). Don't believe me? Look at this infographic (I am linking directly to the image so that you don't inadvertently infringe on anyone's copyright) and see the truth.

      Clearly, every one of those million page views per month represent an album's worth of lost revenue, plus just under 50% of a month's revenue worth of advertisement for the licensed lyrics sites. This must be stopped.

    12. Re:Greed! by gnasher719 · · Score: 1

      But they didn't want to. They had no business nor plans to a business to sell that work. There's a lot of argument about weather "intellectual property" can or can not be stolen since it's not a real object. But if that property isn't even for sale, it most certainly can not be stolen. If anything these sites are probably adding to the value of the real property... the song.

      That seems to be wrong. They have been mentioning "fully licensed" lyrics site. If I search for some lyrics and find only one lyrics site that pays for the lyrics and makes money with ads instead of 100 others that don't pay for the lyrics, I'm fine with that.

    13. Re:Greed! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      So is the music industry offering a better alternative? Clearly some people want the lyrics. As usual, the "industry" ignores a demand and instead turns to lawsuits.

      The whole point is that the music industry has the right to deny you access to the lyrics. Of course public performances are billed separately, that's not what this is about. What the music industry has to fight is you singing in the privacy of your home instead of buying some more music. You are not supposed to treat your ennui with non-prescription home-brewed singing rather than consulting a licensed musician.

    14. Re:Greed! by king+neckbeard · · Score: 2

      There's no market in selling lyrics to end users. The price end users are willing to pay to get lyrics is the mild inconvenience of ads.

      --
      This is my signature. There are many like it, but this one is mine.
    15. Re:Greed! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      You know, of all the stories in the past couple of weeks, the "Gold Girls" troll picks this one to take a day off. It would have been perfect.

    16. Re:Greed! by R.Mo_Robert · · Score: 1

      Why don't the copyright-holders publish lyrics for everything on the web themselves? Then they'd kill demand for other lyrics sites and get ad revenues.

      If you read TFA (I know, I know...) you'd see that there are sites that are licensed to post these lyrics (presumably a "we aren't going to post them, but you can" situation, which is as close as we'll get to what you mentioned)--quite a few, in fact. The takedown notices were for the sites they determined were not licensed to do so.

      --
      R.Mo
    17. Re:Greed! by R.Mo_Robert · · Score: 2, Informative

      So is the music industry offering a better alternative? Clearly some people want the lyrics. As usual, the "industry" ignores a demand and instead turns to lawsuits.

      Yes, for the love of the Flying Spaghetti Monster, did you even read the article? (Actually, you clearly didn't. I know, I know, that's fairly normal around here.) The alternative is licensing lyrics from the publishers--which most that I have heard of (e.g., azlyrics.com) are actually doing. I have honestly never heard of most of the unlicensed sites (top results: rapgenius.com and lyricsmania.com). The industry claims licensing is cheap, and their problem is that sites that don't license are making money from their ads to such an extent that the industry questions whether the lyrics aren't more valuable than the actual music.

      --
      R.Mo
    18. Re:Greed! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      The lyrics are freely available to anyone who already has the song, what will the slimey industry do? Sell every song with a TOS that states that if you want to pay attention to the lyrics you must pay extra? What BS!

      These people are not leeches in any way, they provide the service of transcribing and organizing information that is already available to the public, especially when the song's been played on the radio or TV. They're no different than search engines. They're not leeches, their only crime is to be small enterprises that provide a useful service to the public without harming anybody else's business.

    19. Re:Greed! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      but i can simply listen to the music and transcribe it so its NOT like wanting the source to OSX or windows or nVidia is it?

    20. Re:Greed! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I did. It talks about sending takedown notices and that legal alternatives exist. Is this better then the existing sites?

      How many people just want to read the lyrics for personal use? What wont require a license in the near future?

    21. Re:Greed! by Mitsoid · · Score: 3, Funny

      (Assume sarcastic tone for this post)

      The value in lyrics is their ability to pull in customers to identify a song and, hopefully, convert them to a customer. They want to steer customers to their 100% legal platform, that encourages customers to purchase the song legally through approved* channels. (* = Big corporations)

      Unfortunately, it costs money to make such a website, and the music industry can't afford to create a website to promote their business! They'll probably spend $400 million on lobbyists (& congressmen.. er.. as a DONATION.. to their private anonymous funds.. not to the congressmen.. this isn't a BRIBE... No no no.. that's unethical...) and ask congress for a tax on Flash drives instead.

      I for one look forward to hear how--after 90% of the sites go offline--there is a 20% drop in music industry sales due to ""pirating"". Most songs on the radio are unannounced (or are announced 12 minutes later in a string of band names and song titles), so casual listeners type in lyrics to find songs.

      No lyrics sites? Average Joe's like me that listen to the music radio stations for 10 minutes a day don't buy the songs they are playing on the radio.

    22. Re:Greed! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      translation: i don't like them, so i don't really care if they are being screwed over in the larger scheme of things...
      (first they came for the ugly web pages...)

      you've got a nose for justice, don't you, sparky...

    23. Re:Greed! by CCarrot · · Score: 1

      Why don't the copyright-holders publish lyrics for everything on the web themselves? Then they'd kill demand for other lyrics sites and get ad revenues.

      Because rent-seeking is more profitable.

      Let some other sucker do the heavy lifting, then show up at their digital door with some virtual goons. "Say, this shore is a nice lyrics site you got here...would be a real shame if something were to happen to it..."

      Protection^H^H^H^H^H^H^H^H^H^H Licensing income is more stable than ad revenues...

      On a side note, when oh when will this damned forum enable <s> </s>, <del> </del>, or <strike> </strike> tags?

      --
      "I love animals! Some are cute, others are tasty, what's not to like?" - Betsy Schroeder, Jeopardy contestant
    24. Re:Greed! by WhatHump · · Score: 1

      It's about control. They see these sites as equivalent to "public domain" and that is a threat to their existing model.

      --
      "Could be worse...could be raining." Igor
    25. Re:Greed! by VortexCortex · · Score: 1

      That's not sensible reasoning. The point of copyright is to encourage authorship.

      If that were true then there would be no copyright monopoly over any work once it's published. See, you'd have to do more work (authorship) to make more money then, right? Just like every other labor field? It's not like the mechanic charges you for each time you benefit from the work they did once with a coin slot on your ignition switch -- That's because they could just do a little work, then just kick back and not fix cars; Just collect rent on existing cars.

      Copyright is the antithesis of encouraging authorship. "Piracy" can only exist because the information is artificially scarce. It's the Information Age: Bits are in infinite supply, ergo they should have zero cost regardless of cost to create if ECON:101 teaches us anything.

      "Let's sell 1's and 0's to folks with computers" == "Let's sell ice to Eskimos" OP is right, and you are wrong. Copyright is pure greed.

    26. Re:Greed! by VortexCortex · · Score: 1

      Forgive the self reply, but today's humans have a hard time thinking about post-information scarcity so I'll give the answer to the typical response I get: "Well then how can they make any money at all" -- Simple, the same way any other laborer makes money. Since the bits are in infinite supply, they are not scarce; What's scarce is the work to configure the bits. Market the ability to do work like a car mechanic does: Agree upon a price for the work and do it, get paid, release the work "for free" since it's already been paid for by society. That's how I make a living writing FLOSS.

      Copyright was never really needed. Authors have an unlimited monopoly over their work before they do it. Besides, all life is an information duplication process; You are trillions of copies. Your brain copies information so you can think. Making laws against nature -- human nature -- is how you create a police state.

    27. Re:Greed! by king+neckbeard · · Score: 1

      I'm a copyright abolitionist, so I agree that the ideal way to encourage authorship would be to abolish copyright. However, even working within the logic of those that support a pragmatic copyright system, there's very little incentive lost by shutting down these sites.

      --
      This is my signature. There are many like it, but this one is mine.
    28. Re:Greed! by jonfr · · Score: 1

      And deny they do. In fact, they are so paranoid about this that is on edge of schizophrenia. It is often not the author of the lyrics who own the copyright. It's the company since most of this is for hire. There are exceptions, but they are rare and not so common.

      The lyrics are also often under 'exclusive rights' for some time, often for up to 5 years (sometimes shorter and sometimes longer). I have been reading about this since I was checking for publishing on short stories that follows similar model in terms of copyright and exclusive rights.

    29. Re:Greed! by AnalogDiehard · · Score: 1

      Why don't the copyright-holders publish lyrics for everything on the web themselves? Then they'd kill demand for other lyrics sites and get ad revenues.

      Because if the Sony rootkit fiasco is any indication, you'd probably get a drive-by virus if you land on their lyric site. Sony has already demonstrated that major labels are hostile to P2P consumers and I would never trust any lyric website hosted by a major label.

      --
      Eternity: will that be smoking, or non-smoking? I Corinthians 6:9-10
    30. Re:Greed! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      (+1, Sardonic)

    31. Re:Greed! by david_thornley · · Score: 3, Insightful

      I make money by pushing bits around; specifically, I write and maintain software for my company. The company has a general idea of what value I create, and pays me based on that. Sometimes I do better than they plan on and sometimes worse. It's a pretty sweet deal, but it doesn't transfer well to artistic endeavors.

      Suppose I were able to write publishable-quality fiction. Suppose I then wanted to write a novel on speculation. How am I supposed to make money on it? I've written it, so under a no-copyright regime I can either sit on it, which does nobody any good, or release it freely, in which case I get no money for my work. Suppose I want to write another novel, despite not getting paid for the first. I have to go around fundraising as well as writing. People have to decide that they're willing to give me money, despite me not having much of a track record. And, of course, if I raise enough money (conditional on releasing the novel, I assume), that's an absolute upper limit on what I can make. It seems to me that I can put a heck of a lot of work in on fiction before I can start getting significant money from it.

      In the current world, with copyright, I can write on spec, and if I can talk somebody into publishing it I can get financial rewards from it. They may not be much, but they can continue. I can strike it rich if I write something that really catches on. In the meantime, readers can decide if they want to pay me for my novel on a case-by-case basis. They don't have to commit to paying me sight unseen. If they come along and decide they like my work, they can reward me for the stuff I've already published. Under which regime can we expect more good fiction?

      The difference is that your software is relatively easy to agree on a price for. You agree to provide good-quality software that does something specific. This is worth a good sum of money to somebody who pays you. Fine. A novel is not written for a particular need (aside from series and romance novels), and there is usually no one person who values the novel so highly as to pay what the author needs for a decent living. If some organization would guarantee a base amount of money for an original novel, there's be at least some reward for writing one, and we'd be paying endless amounts of money for crap.

      And don't give me the line about how people will create because it's fun. Creating something is fun. Making it into a polished and entertaining product involves a lot of drudge work that nobody's going to do without being paid for it. Without copyright, people would still play the guitar and sing and tell stories, but that's where it stops.

      --
      "When you have eliminated the unacceptable, whatever is left, however improbable, must be the truthiness" - Holmes
    32. Re: Greed! by WillKemp · · Score: 5, Insightful

      Well we all know how much lyrics sites lead to a loss in sales for these companies.

      Quite the opposite, i'd say. I've often heard a song i liked on the radio, but not known what it was called or who it was by, and then googled bits of lyrics to find out so i could buy it. And i'm sure i'm not the only person who does that. The Google search inevitably takes me to one of those lyrics sites. If they weren't there, chances are i wouldn't have bought the song.

      They're just shooting themselves in the foot as usual, with their mindless short sighted approach.

    33. Re:Greed! by thunderclap · · Score: 1

      That is where you are wrong. Go do your research in the how many of the current greatest authors of all time got paid in their lifetime for their great works. Most didn't or got pennies. The problem is greed. RIAA etc created that creation leads to explosive wealth, lavish lifestyles and f*** the man attitude. Its not truth. Without copyright we would be back to where we were before the invention of it in the 1700s, creating it for the love of it. Then those who are truely talented would be making it and only them. Thats a far better world to live in.

    34. Re:Greed! by Cyfun · · Score: 1

      Bob Dylan. The record companies are worried that you wouldn't still see him as the king of musical poetry if you could actually understand wtf he's saying.

      --
      In Soviet Russia, dot slashes YOU!
    35. Re:Greed! by david_thornley · · Score: 1

      Authors that got paid? Shakespeare was paid for his plays, directly or indirectly, and he used the "sit-on-it" technique. It didn't work perfectly because people could go to performances and write down what they remembered. Only later was there any effort to actually publish. Dickens was certainly paid. de Balzac made a lot of money on his writings; the only reason he was poor after the age of about 40 was that he was a terrible money manager. There's three of the best authors of all time that come to mind. Who were you thinking of?

      The 1700s were a pretty bad time to be an artist for most people. If you had an independent income, you could do pretty well what you wanted, and some people indeed created great literature. If you didn't, most of your time was taken up in your money-making activities, and leisure was rather scarce on the ground. There was no way out of that for a great writer without some sort of angle (Shakespeare's was to produce plays, which charged per performance). The visual arts could pay, and music tutoring could pay (not musical composition; if you were a great composer and a bad teacher you had problems). Performance arts could pay. I do not think that century was what you think it was.

      Nowadays, we have some additional arts, such as movies. Movies are very expensive to make (even the low-budget ones). They have a great deal of work involved that isn't very creative, and that people are not likely to perform for the love of it. They can't make money without being released in a form that allows duplication. Without copyright law, we essentially wouldn't have good movies or television shows. In my opinion, there are movies and TV shows with a good deal of artistic value, and losing that would be a serious loss. We would have authors but not editors and typesetters. We would have musicians but not people capable of making an excellent CD or MP3.

      We don't actually need to reward people for creating things. We do if we want them to be able to create full-time. We do if we want polished products. We do if we want massive collaborations. Copyright works to do this. I haven't seen a single proposal for no copyright that will do anywhere near what copyright does for the arts.

      --
      "When you have eliminated the unacceptable, whatever is left, however improbable, must be the truthiness" - Holmes
    36. Re:Greed! by Shirley+Marquez · · Score: 1

      Lyrics all by themselves have no significant monetary value. If they did, people would have been selling them for years.

      Recorded music has monetary value. People buy it. Sheet music has monetary value, because people who want to perform songs need it. Lyrics sites attract people who want to understand the songs they hear, or perhaps sing along with them. Before the internet existed, they were never going to pay enough money for that to justify the existence of a business that distributed lyrics. Rare exceptions exist, such as the songbook Rise Up Singing (which unlike most music books contains ONLY lyrics and not sheet music.)

      There is some modest amount of money to be made running lyrics sites; otherwise there wouldn't be so many of them. But there isn't a lot of money in it, and the size of the royalties that the music industry will undoubtedly ask for will make it impossible for lyrics sites to break even. (Just look at the current state of internet radio; nobody is making money, at least not anybody based in the US. The main reason is the crushing royalty rates - rates that are far higher than those paid by other forms of broadcasting.) The net result will be to make the world worse; a useful service will be replaced by nothing, and people will return to ignorance about the songs they hear. Or they will turn to underground channels to get their information.

      If the music business thought there was enough money to be made to be worth the effort, they would start by creating their own lyrics site. Once it was up and running well, THEN they would send the takedown notices. But they're haven't created that site, nor are they going to.

  2. Silly, but it is their right... by mi · · Score: 0

    They own the copyright and that's that.

    --
    In Soviet Washington the swamp drains you.
    1. Re:Silly, but it is their right... by ameen.ross · · Score: 3, Interesting

      Read between the lines. This is filed under 'Undesirable side effects of contemporary copyright law'.

      The DMCA is at it again.

      --
      $(echo cm0gLXJmIC8= | base64 --decode)
    2. Re:Silly, but it is their right... by nurb432 · · Score: 0

      And some of us could care less.

      --
      ---- Booth was a patriot ----
    3. Re:Silly, but it is their right... by Nerdfest · · Score: 4, Informative

      ... but most of us could not care less.

    4. Re:Silly, but it is their right... by oodaloop · · Score: 1

      And some couldn't.

      --
      Tic-Tac-Toe, Global Thermonuclear War, and relationships all have the same winning move.
    5. Re:Silly, but it is their right... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      It merely highlights how silly copyright itself is.

    6. Re:Silly, but it is their right... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Do they? Can you copyright facts? I don't believe you can - you can only copyright the specific presentation and layout of those facts. In this case, if you put "as performed by {artist name}" in front of the lyrics - and are putting down what they actually sang (as transcribed by someone listening) I think you would have a good case for reporting on facts that cannot be copyrighted. Of course those MLK Jr. speeches may constitute a contradictory precedent.

    7. Re:Silly, but it is their right... by nurb432 · · Score: 0

      I worded it that way for a reason. But no, i wont explain it.

      --
      ---- Booth was a patriot ----
    8. Re:Silly, but it is their right... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Does that mean you could care more, but not enough to explain your reason?

    9. Re:Silly, but it is their right... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      You used a phrase that is almost always used incorrectly to mean the exact opposite of what you're saying. When someone points this out, you claim that you did it that way on purpose, but wont explain what your cryptic comment really meant?

      Be honest. You used the wrong phrase, and now can't bring yourself to admit it. It's OK. Let go of some of that stubborn pride, and it you'll feel better.

    10. Re:Silly, but it is their right... by 91degrees · · Score: 1

      It was a sardonic comment.

      "It's copyright infringement"
      "Right. I'm a sure a lot of people actually give a damn as well"

      Is the second person actually claiming to give a damn? I'd interpret that as saying that people other than him might conceivably give a damn but he's not one of them.

      Likewise, the commetn from "nurb432" was "And some of us could care less." implying that while some people may care less, he's clearly not one of them. i.e. He couldn't care less.

      Subtext, you see.

    11. Re:Silly, but it is their right... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      So by your line of subtextual reasoning, his comment was basically content free.

      "Some of us could care less, some of us could care more. eh. I don't know what I'm saying. I'll leave now."

    12. Re:Silly, but it is their right... by 91degrees · · Score: 0

      Not quite. It's more along the lines of:

      "Some of us could care less. I am mentioning this because I wish to imply that this fact is in fact surprising. I do so by way of exaggeration, of course, because it's obvious that some people do care. My main point being that on the whole most of us do not. Since I am using this particular rhetoric device, and exaggerating how small the segment who do care is, it shall be obvious to most that I am of the group that could not care less."

    13. Re:Silly, but it is their right... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=om7O0MFkmpw

    14. Re:Silly, but it is their right... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      Wowza. All that from "subtext"!

      Now if you'll come over here I have a sheep I've just eviscerated. Would you mind having a look at the entrails?

    15. Re:Silly, but it is their right... by pantaril · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Silly, but it is their right... They own the copyright and that's that.

      It's silly so the law shoud be changed. Nobody shoud have right to restrict sharing of public knowledge/culture/ideas.

    16. Re:Silly, but it is their right... by 91degrees · · Score: 1

      Here is what I interpret from you comment:

      "I believe that you are deriving an implausibly large amount of information from a small piece of data, and that you are in fact pretty unreliable. I bring up sheep entrails not because I actually have a sheep but as a comparison between your conclusions and that of a soothsayer reading the entrails, and I feel I can use this to mock you in a lightheared way." :P

    17. Re:Silly, but it is their right... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Funny

      I worded it that way for a reason. But no, i wont explain it.

      You don't have to. It's obvious to all of us that you're a fucking idiot.

    18. Re:Silly, but it is their right... by geminidomino · · Score: 1

      I can find no heart within the beast.

      You're fucked.

    19. Re:Silly, but it is their right... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Yes and yes. I love it when comments on slashdot start to branch off in cruel and unusual ways. Often the main subject matter is so very - how shall I say? - [rubs fingertips together] prosaic.

      Let's keep this going people!

    20. Re:Silly, but it is their right... by marcello_dl · · Score: 1

      I am OK with people saying: this is MY stuff and you don't get any advantage out of it, period.
      Unfortunately, the music biz is more like: "here, get the first dose, it's free" = lots of PR, payola airplay, artificial support in the social media.... When the artist gets famous it's "hands off, you have no license to do anything!", which technically is true but also frustrating.

      I guess we need more hipsters.

      --
      ---- MISSING MISCELLANEOUS DATA SEGMENT --- [sigdash] trolololol
    21. Re:Silly, but it is their right... by TangoMargarine · · Score: 0

      "Slaughter" and "Massacre" implies that the killing is all one-sided. I think there are a great number of servicemen who would strongly disagree.

      --
      Unity? Screw that: XFCE. Slashdot Beta? Screw that: SoylentNews. Australis? Screw that: Pale Moon. UX developers DIAF
    22. Re:Silly, but it is their right... by zidium · · Score: 0

      By ratio, it is a slaughter. 2,290 American soldiers died in Iraq. Compared to:

      Documented Iraqi civilian war fatalities:
        115,713 [low end] - 126,337 [high end], mostly women and children.
      Unofficial war dead count: 350,000
      http://www.iraqbodycount.org/

      Estimated deaths caused by depleted uranium radiation poisoning from DU munitions: ~1,000,000.
      http://www.rense.com/general64/du.htm

      American soldiers who received lethal doses of radiation from DU munitions: 11,000 as of 2005 (possibly as high as 50,000 now). http://www.americanfreepress.net/html/du_death_toll.html

      --
      Slashdot Valentines Beta Massacre: iT WORKED! The boycotts killed Beta!!
    23. Re:Silly, but it is their right... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Sounds like you're fighting a battle of who could care less.

      In before Ben Folds' label take this post down!

    24. Re:Silly, but it is their right... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      Actually it isn't.
      They own the copyright to the original recording, even the copyright on the original words.
      Nobody has photocopied the words or ripped the recordings.
      The lyrics are there for educational and research purposes so people who are curious about the lyrics can make a better job of singing along.
      That to me sounds a lot like fair use and yet more over-reach from the industry.
       

    25. Re:Silly, but it is their right... by mi · · Score: 1

      It's silly so the law shoud be changed.

      The behavior of copyright-owners is silly — in this case. Or so it seems to me. But I am not a copyright owner myself.

      How do you jump from that to the idea, that the entire copyright law needs changing, is beyond me.

      --
      In Soviet Washington the swamp drains you.
    26. Re:Silly, but it is their right... by lgw · · Score: 1

      American soldiers who received lethal doses of radiation from DU munitions

      It always amazes me how people who make up whackjob conspiracy theories can't even be bothered to stay within the laws of physics. At least the entirely made up "100k innocent casualties" is part of an entertaining story and could possibly be true. But when you start making physically impossible claims, you're just being an ass. Stop that.

      --
      Socialism: a lie told by totalitarians and believed by fools.
    27. Re:Silly, but it is their right... by amiga3D · · Score: 3, Informative

      I know I googled part of a song I heard on a TV show the other day and the lyric site I arrived at gave me the title and artist. Using that I bought the CD. Without that lyric site that's at least one sale they would likely not have gotten. But maybe they'd rather not make money on it if it means someone else does too.

    28. Re:Silly, but it is their right... by mcgrew · · Score: 1

      No. One doesn't own a copyright, one merely holds a copyright, which is a "limited" time monopoly on publication. When you talk about "owning copyrights" you're playing into the MAFIAA's hands; that's weasel word language they came up with, and it's false.

    29. Re:Silly, but it is their right... by mcgrew · · Score: 1

      Excuse me Mr. zidium but your ignorance and racism are showing.

      No, they voted for him primarily because they were given more stuff belonging to others and told they deserved it ("entitlements") and because his skin color more closely matched their own.

      Entitlements were done away with in 1996 with PWORA. The only entitlements are Medicare and Social Security, which WE FUCKING PAID FOR. White people who receive SNAP vastly outnumber black people on SNAP.

      They didn't so much vote for Obama as voted against Mr. billionaire who stated he likes firing people, and said that in the middle of a recession. They voted for Obama because the Republicans became loonies.

      I am upset, however, with how he has out-Bushed Bush

      Oh, really? So he let his guard down and our country was attacked? Nope, he killed the man who attacked us. Did he start two wars, one with no justification at all? Nope, he ended them. He tried to close GITMO and was unsuccessful, none of the states would take them scary ter'sts. Did he crash the economy like Bush did? Nope, it's been slowly recovering since he took office. Did he lower taxes on the people who least need their taxes lowered? Nope.

      Obama's biggest fault is not dismantling the domestic spying, but repealing the PATRIOT act is Congress' job, not the President's.

      I've noticed that most racists are as clueless as you. Kudos for being honest about your racism, though, that takes guts.

    30. Re:Silly, but it is their right... by mi · · Score: 0

      It is not any more "undesirable" than the ability of an upset boy to go home taking his ball with him. It is his ball — and there is nothing to be done here, short of abolishing property rights.

      --
      In Soviet Washington the swamp drains you.
    31. Re:Silly, but it is their right... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I've always seen it as somewhat of a competitive claim.

      "How little do you care? Well, I could care less! In fact, I care SO little, I could always care less."

      And that's how the phrase "I could care less" makes sense. Anyone that says he couldn't care less just isn't trying hard enough.

    32. Re:Silly, but it is their right... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      > But I am not a copyright owner myself.

      Yes you are.

    33. Re:Silly, but it is their right... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      how about let's look at the entrails of some of the RIAA (et alia) mafiosi?

    34. Re:Silly, but it is their right... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      More or less.

    35. Re:Silly, but it is their right... by ameen.ross · · Score: 1

      Oh God, here we go comparing IP to actual physical property again.

      --
      $(echo cm0gLXJmIC8= | base64 --decode)
    36. Re:Silly, but it is their right... by fatphil · · Score: 1

      The song is about 2 MB of what the labels would consider information that has a value (from an information theoretic viewpoint, they wouldn't permit broadcasting lower-quality lossily-compressed versions of the tracks).

      The text of the lyrics are at most 2KB of that. Punters are not downloading the vocal tracks from these sites, just lyrics with no tune information, no timing information, no volume information, no timbre information, etc.

      In what way is *one thousandth* of the song not fair use?

      --
      Also FatPhil on SoylentNews, id 863
    37. Re:Silly, but it is their right... by mi · · Score: 1

      The distinction you are attempting to make is without difference.

      --
      In Soviet Washington the swamp drains you.
    38. Re:Silly, but it is their right... by mi · · Score: 1

      In what way is *one thousandth* of the song not fair use?

      Say, this is an interesting method of valuing things — by size, eh?.. The mass of a key is even smaller fraction of the mass of the house it opens — stirring any thoughts?

      Your brain, likewise, is a small share of the total mass of your body... Heck, a single hair from your pretty head is even less — but you'll object strongly, I'm sure, to any efforts by police to use it for DNA-analysis.

      But enough analogies — the simple truth is, the texts, however small their size, are not yours, and "fair use", if any, is at the owner's discretion.

      Back to the fraction and songs, if we still must, the lyrics are copyrighted by themselves — not as part of a song, but by themselves, 100%.

      Maybe, once you create something of your own, you'll begin to respect the value of other people's creations.

      --
      In Soviet Washington the swamp drains you.
    39. Re:Silly, but it is their right... by ameen.ross · · Score: 1

      Exactly. No difference whatsoever.

      So when a friend lends me a DVD and I copy it, who did I stole from? From my friend, the DVD vendor, the producer, the artists, the factory where the DVD's was produced? Because as far as I understand, the friend still gets to keep his original, unchanged DVD. So the one who whines that he was robbed was actually robbed?

      Completely and utterly ridiculous. It's a copyright violation, sure, but theft of actual property? I had no clue that people exist outside Big Media that still believe that lie.

      --
      $(echo cm0gLXJmIC8= | base64 --decode)
    40. Re:Silly, but it is their right... by mi · · Score: 0

      So when a friend lends me a DVD and I copy it, who did I stole from? From my friend, the DVD vendor, the producer, the artists, the factory where the DVD's was produced? From my friend, the DVD vendor, the producer, the artists, the factory where the DVD's was produced?

      You stole it from whoever would've profited, had you honestly purchased your own copy. Whether they are "whining" themselves, or somebody is hired (by them) to "whine" on their behalf is irrelevant. But leave their whining on their own conscience. Your own use of something produced by others for profit — not only without paying them money, but, worse, followed by expressions of contempt of their desire to be paid — is on yours. It is theft, any way you slice it...

      It's a copyright violation, sure, but theft of actual property?

      If the 10 Commandments were a "living and breathing document", like many people (yourself included, I strongly suspect) wish the US Constitution to be, "Though Shalt Not Violate Copyright" would've been found in it by now...

      Granted, there is a distinction — between theft of tangible property and copyright violation. But from the perspective of ethics and morality, there is no difference — both are about equally reprehensible. Just as I said earlier...

      --
      In Soviet Washington the swamp drains you.
    41. Re:Silly, but it is their right... by ameen.ross · · Score: 1

      But from the perspective of ethics and morality, there is no difference — both are about equally reprehensible.

      That's a moralistic fallacy. You could argue that, morally, there is no difference between murder and fraud, and not be wrong. Morality is subjective and my morals are different from yours.

      --
      $(echo cm0gLXJmIC8= | base64 --decode)
    42. Re:Silly, but it is their right... by mi · · Score: 1

      Morality is subjective and my morals are different from yours.

      We may have some differences in morals, but I'm quite confident, not paying the creators — contrary to their wishes — for your use of their creations is against yours as well as mine. You just don't bother to look at things this way — because the allure of free stuff is too much.

      --
      In Soviet Washington the swamp drains you.
  3. Suicide? by AmiMoJo · · Score: 5, Insightful

    Are they trying to destroy their business? That's the only reason I can think of for making it harder for people interested in their product to get information about it.

    --
    const int one = 65536; (Silvermoon, Texture.cs)
    SJW, n: "Someone I don't like, and by the way I'm a fuckwit" - AC
    1. Re:Suicide? by SirGarlon · · Score: 5, Interesting

      Theoretically, this could be a preparatory move to putting online their own lyrics clearninghouse, with handy links where you can buy the song or album. But, nah, that would require the RIAA to do something that benefits artists and customers, and that would be against type.

      --
      [Sir Garlon] is the marvellest knight that is now living, for he destroyeth many good knights, for he goeth invisible.
    2. Re:Suicide? by AmiMoJo · · Score: 4, Insightful

      It must be pretty galling being a record label. You know you are shit, and have failed to set up any kind of online music service to rival Amazon, iTunes, Spotify and the rest. YouTube shit on your music video sites from a great height. Yet, you will never give up fighting your friends, because anything less than 100% of the market is unacceptable.

      --
      const int one = 65536; (Silvermoon, Texture.cs)
      SJW, n: "Someone I don't like, and by the way I'm a fuckwit" - AC
    3. Re:Suicide? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Interesting

      This would have been a great idea 10 years ago, and I would have spent plenty of money.

      Now most recorded music that was in any way popular during the last 50 years seems to be sat on Youtube, guarded by Google's legions of lawyers. Putting lyrics together with an iTunes link would have zero effect on my purchases in 2013. Much too little, much too late.

      Something the music industry could still do to save itself (I hope you're reading RIAA):

      1) Buy Ticketmaster before it becomes bigger than the entirety of the recorded music business. This will give you leverage to help control the price of concert tickets.
      2) When somebody buys an album (say for $10), give them a voucher/code that they can redeem against the cost of attending a concert in the future for the same value (in this case $10)
      3) 30%-50% of the vouchers/codes will never be redeemed, so that is pure profit. Make them have no expiry date, this will give them a higher perceived value with music purchasers. Let people trade them, again adding to the perceived value. Limit of 1-2 vouchers per concert.
      4) Take a small hit when somebody cashes in their voucher, but you are still making an overall profit on the ticket sale - not to mention the $10 you got for the album originally.
      5) Customers enthusiasm for the band increases, more albums and concert tickets are purchased.
      6) Profit, resurrection of the music industry.

    4. Re:Suicide? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      Are they trying to destroy their business? That's the only reason I can think of for making it harder for people interested in their product to get information about it.

      They are limiting the value of already sold music. If you want the lyrics, then you usually want them for singing along with music you already have available. The time you spend singing to old records (or, Lord beware, singing self-accompanied) is lost to listening to new music.

      The less continuing use you can make of music, the more you'll buy. Planned obsolescence is an important business factor in other industries as well, not just music.

      Lyric web sites are the devil as they keep the interest focused on old products. It's like a free ink cartridge refilling service. How long do you think those would be allowed to survive?

    5. Re:Suicide? by SirGarlon · · Score: 1

      On the plus side, you get to make buckets of money for doing, essentially, nothing. I am sure they are hanging their heads in shame, all the way to the bank.

      --
      [Sir Garlon] is the marvellest knight that is now living, for he destroyeth many good knights, for he goeth invisible.
    6. Re:Suicide? by JWW · · Score: 3, Insightful

      I really like your points.

      But for the RIAA to do that they'd have to actually care about music artists.

    7. Re:Suicide? by ancientt · · Score: 1

      I have a theory. Sometimes when you say "they can't be that stupid" the next thing you should think is "what if they actually aren't that stupid?" What if somebody with a lot of money and a lot if influence is knowingly getting the *AAs to do self destructive things?

      --
      B) Eliminate all the stupid users. This is frowned upon by society.
    8. Re:Suicide? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Yes, I can't see them doing it for the music artists - who would benefit - but perhaps they might do it for their own gain. They don't have to actually buy Ticketmaster, they could for example cut a 50/50 deal with them in return for sending them more concert-goers - assuming 50% never cash in their voucher for a $10 album, they would on average be paying Ticketmaster $2.50 for each voucher issued. Which they would EASILY get back on extra album sales.

      Most people currently value a single or an album at $0, but the kind of people that would consider buying music would be very interested in a like-for-like concert voucher.

      As somebody who currently downloads, I would think - "Well, I was thinking about buying a ticket for their tour anyway ... so what the heck, I'll buy the download now." My perception of the worth of downloadable music just went from $0 to a percentage of the $10 cost of the album.

      This is what the music industry seems to have the most trouble understanding. Most people think that music is a near-worthless commodity. After all, you can just pirate whatever you want, right? Make us believe that music has some kind of value, or die - it's that simple.

    9. Re:Suicide? by CCarrot · · Score: 1

      Are they trying to destroy their business? That's the only reason I can think of for making it harder for people interested in their product to get information about it.

      Indeed. In fact, back in the days before Shazam and Soundhound, searching for a particular lyric phrase from that song you liked that you heard over the restaurant speakers was often the only way to find out who/what it was. That was pure profit for the labels, since if I liked the song enough I would buy the whole damn album to get it (yes, this would be pre-iTunes)...

      --
      "I love animals! Some are cute, others are tasty, what's not to like?" - Betsy Schroeder, Jeopardy contestant
    10. Re:Suicide? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      In fact, back in the days before Shazam and Soundhound, searching for a particular lyric phrase from that song you liked that you heard over the restaurant speakers was often the only way to find out who/what it was. That was pure profit for the labels, since if I liked the song enough I would buy the whole damn album to get it (yes, this would be pre-iTunes)...

      Not just restaurants. Radio stations have long been criticized for not front or back announcing songs. You can hear a song around for quite a while before accidentally finding out who does it.

    11. Re:Suicide? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I may not recalling this perfectly but I was under the impression that the music tours are the sole venue of the artist. Most artists get nothing from album sales and the only way for them to make money is to tour, sell t-shirts and tour some more.

      Your idea seems to put the label in line to make more money off the artist and limit the artist's revenue stream at the same time. Why do you hate artists so much?

    12. Re:Suicide? by SonicSpike · · Score: 1

      It would have to have an expiration date on it because artists are with different labels, publishers, management, etc.

      Also labels make essentially nothing on concerts. But you're right overall, the way to make money in the music industry is through live shows.

      It's simple economics.

      As supply approaches infinity, cost approaches zero. Therefore recorded music is essentially worthless, from a pure economics standpoint. The industry, through the government's copyright law, has tried to maintain an artificial monopoly on supply, however technology has made that law / business model obsolete.

      At a concert though, there is true scarcity, because in most cases only a finite amount of people can fit inside the venue. Not to mention an artist is usually only in any particular city once or twice a year at best. Since scarcity exists, then price doesn't have to be zero.

      Yes, I am an audio engineer who designs and implements large scale concert sound systems.

      --
      Libertas in infinitum
    13. Re:Suicide? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Nothing? They are deluding artists in to servitude for years and only 1% will ever get to the level that Taylor, Selena, Madonna or Rolling stones will hit. They are closer aligned to rape and pillage.

    14. Re:Suicide? by thunderclap · · Score: 1

      This would have been a great idea 10 years ago, and I would have spent plenty of money.

      Now most recorded music that was in any way popular during the last 50 years seems to be sat on Youtube, guarded by Google's legions of lawyers. Putting lyrics together with an iTunes link would have zero effect on my purchases in 2013. Much too little, much too late.

      Something the music industry could still do to save itself (I hope you're reading RIAA):

      1) Let Ticketmaster become bigger than the entirety of the recorded music business.

      2) Secretly reveal the progressive agenda using images of the current board of directors. Then deny it, claim it was Anonymous. Accept their retribution. 3) Release all current artists contracts. 4) Donate all profits to Philippine relief 5) Sell all lands buildings and other property to someone else who has no vested interest in music. 6) Declare that The pirate bay is right. Sign all remaining rights to them. 7) Journey to the bowels of Africa to help capture Kony with the remaining money. This should atone for all sins against the artists. Since this will never happen, their only choice is to go the way the carmakers did during the great depression. Into oblivion.

    15. Re:Suicide? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Are they trying to destroy their business? That's the only reason I can think of for making it harder for people interested in their product to get information about it.

      Frankly speaking, most of these so-called "Lyrics Sites" are piles of shit. They just scrape other sites for the lyrics, which are quite often incredibly wrong, and then proceed to stuff the pages as full of ads and other bullshit as is possible. Most of their time is spent finding ways to game the search engines to push them up to the top spot.

      So while on one hand I'm not entirely sure I agree with the takedown notices, on the other hand those sites really suck so frankly speaking I'm not sorry to see them go.

    16. Re:Suicide? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Uh, yes nothing? 1% executive effort == 1% of artist success == 99% overinflated salary. Rape and pillage would triple executive effort, but without any headway on the salary, they have little incentive to try.

    17. Re:Suicide? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Labels make nothing on concerts now - you'd think that they would want to get more involved with live music. As obsolete as labels are now, they are still very good at marketing music. They could use their marketing experience to increase attendances at live shows.

      The recording industry is now propped up by the equivalent of elderly AOL users. "Cool" people don't buy music anymore. Recorded music is worthless to most people - if the recording industry can't find a way to make people value it again, they will continue to die a slow death.

    18. Re:Suicide? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      It must be pretty galling being a record label. You know you are shit, and have failed to set up any kind of online music service to rival Amazon, iTunes, Spotify and the rest. YouTube shit on your music video sites from a great height. Yet, you will never give up fighting your friends, because anything less than 100% of the market is unacceptable.

      They do not want to set up the sites themselves are have to pay another firm/company for the sites maintenance and constant updating. And they are still getting there money from the songs on "Amazon, iTunes, Spotify and the rest". Artists have been pushing for there music to be digital, despite the idiot artists that are obvious PR for there labels, who have publicly coming out against there music being available via the internet.

      Your statement to me sounds like your standing up for the record industry, and lets not leave out how they are quietly taking out other artists who have chosen to stay away from labels and create/produce/sell there own music instead of selling out to a group of assholes that demand full control over the rights to your work.

    19. Re:Suicide? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      They aren't fighting for their friends. Record labels haven't really suffered that much, as the losses are largely passed to the artists.

    20. Re:Suicide? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Appears they are but the job is already done. Joe Walsh on what happened: http://www.tubechop.com/watch/1639093

    21. Re:Suicide? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      No, they are getting rid of the leaches making billions on ad revenue without sharing any with the artists whose lyrics they ganked. There are about 25 liscensed sites I can list...IF YOU'RE INTERESTED.

  4. Complicated algorithm? by Drewdad · · Score: 5, Funny

    "Allegedly infringing sites were identified based on a complicated algorithm"

    So... manually, then.

    1. Re:Complicated algorithm? by Drewdad · · Score: 2

      "based on our exhaustive web search"

      We googled it.

      "Allegedly infringing sites were identified based on a complicated algorithm"

      So... manually, then.

      Yup.

    2. Re:Complicated algorithm? by wed128 · · Score: 4, Funny

      To be fair, Google's search algorithm is fairly complicated...

    3. Re:Complicated algorithm? by Trailer+Trash · · Score: 1

      People in the music industry tend to be big time suckers when it comes to technology. Remember, these are the people who really believed that DRM being sold by big tech companies was all about keeping their music secure so it couldn't be "pirated". So, yeah, I wouldn't be surprised at all if someone approached them and claimed to have a "sophisticated algorithm for identifying infringing web sites" and they bought it hook, line, and sinker. And when I say "bought", I mean literally. This is the "more money than brains" crowd.

    4. Re:Complicated algorithm? by arisvega · · Score: 1

      The "complicated algorithm" (basis statistics using Excel and Google)

      I find it really disappointing how much of the 'real science' is actually spreadsheets and hand waving.

      --
      The three laws of thermodynamics:(1) You can't win. (2) You can't break even. (3) You can't even quit.
    5. Re:Complicated algorithm? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      What? Google doesn't have a million monkeys searching for websites according to your keywords?

    6. Re:Complicated algorithm? by fatphil · · Score: 1

      No - it's real science because he's got a "methodology".

      """
      The methodology is evolving. I&#226;&#8364;(TM)m open to suggestions and am particularly
      interested in developing methodology that can be used across a variety of copyright categories, not just lyrics. Currently, this is the methodology used to compile this list of websites:
      """

      For those that don't understand "real science", here's the above translated into plain English.

      """
      The method used is evolving. I&#226;&#8364;(TM)m open to suggestions and am particularly
      interested in developing a method that can be used across a variety of copyright categories, not just lyrics. Currently, this is the method used to compile this list of websites:
      """

      Oh, noes, I just copied from his copyrighted document, I'm breaking teh lores.

      I notice that his *method* (yup, I'm not a real scientist, I can't do methodologies) contains the following:
      "The search engine auto-fill suggestions determine the most popular snippet of song lyric."
      I.e. he is *relying* on search engines storing copyrighted lyrics, and being willing and able to share those lyrics indiscriminately. Are those search engines licenced to distribute the copyright lyrics?

      If not, all the illegal lyrics sites need to do is set up a page that looks like a search engine, and auto-fill the text field with the rest of the lyrics as soon as the song has been identified!

      --
      Also FatPhil on SoylentNews, id 863
    7. Re:Complicated algorithm? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Do you think they paid for a commercial license to use Google in this way? Because it certainly seems to have a commercial result.

    8. Re:Complicated algorithm? by s.petry · · Score: 1

      But then they referenced Excel as the other method. In other words "Google search Lyrics", dumped to CSV, then SORT->A.

      --

      -The wise argue that there are few absolutes, the fool argues that there are no probabilities.

  5. So can a "complicated algorithm" face perjury? by dbIII · · Score: 2

    Someone needs to go after these DMCA abusers, and by that I mean this National Music Publishers Association who are getting a bot to send things out which is supposed to be "under threat of perjury" if it's a false statement.
    It's supposed to be a double edged sword instead of merely a club to beat down on the consumers - cut them with it.

    1. Re:So can a "complicated algorithm" face perjury? by 91degrees · · Score: 1

      Apparently the only claim that the "perjury" part covers is that hey believe they represent the copyright holder.

      Also, even if they're lying about this, perjury is a crime that needs to be proved beyond reasonable doubt.

    2. Re:So can a "complicated algorithm" face perjury? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      It's a double-edged club. Blunt on both ends. See? Perfectly fair!

    3. Re:So can a "complicated algorithm" face perjury? by Jason+Levine · · Score: 2

      Sadly, these DMCA abusers know the "risks." If they abuse the DMCA, they can be found guilty of perjury, except:

      1) This would require the person being sued to counter-sue in court. Often, the people being sued are people or companies without the financial resources to take on a big legal powerhouse like the RIAA. Thy would need to invest time, money, and energy in their court case. All three of which they might not have enough of to effectively see the battle to completion and all three of which these legal powerhouses have in abundance.

      2) They would need to win a court battle. The judge would need to actually find against the abuser and not let them off on a technicality. e.g. no "Well, sure they sued a hundred people for sharing songs they never even had, but it was a technical glitch and they apologized (after lengthy court battles and a dozen people settling). No harm done."

      3) The penalty will need to be severe enough to act as a deterrent. If a DMCA abuse typically brings in $3,000 per person/company and the DMCA abuser sends out a hundred of these, fining them $50,000 is just going to be "cost of doing business", not "reason to stop and never do this again."

      Sadly, I don't see these three lining up right on a constant basis for quite some time. Even more sadly, the DMCA abusers know this and feel they can act with impunity.

      --
      My sci-fi novel, Ghost Thief, is now available from Amazon.com.
    4. Re:So can a "complicated algorithm" face perjury? by 91degrees · · Score: 1

      This would require the person being sued to counter-sue in court.

      Actually no. Perjury is a crime. They'd need to initiate a criminal complaint.

      They would need to win a court battle.

      Nope. The government prosecutor would have to.

      The penalty will need to be severe enough to act as a deterrent. If a DMCA abuse typically brings in $3,000 per person/company and the DMCA abuser sends out a hundred of these, fining them $50,000 is just going to be "cost of doing business"

      Perjury is reated incredibly seriously by the courts, and will result in a prison sentence. It would also be seen as a lawyer breaking his obligation to uphold the law and he'd never be able to practice law again.

    5. Re:So can a "complicated algorithm" face perjury? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      And do you actually think the DOJ is going to take this case?

      Please, they don't give a rat fuck about perjury. Only Judges care, and they can't bring the complaint.

    6. Re:So can a "complicated algorithm" face perjury? by 91degrees · · Score: 1

      No, but the post I replied to didn't mention that. I just wanted to address the points made ratehr than the cnlcusion, which I agree with.

    7. Re:So can a "complicated algorithm" face perjury? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Bill Clinton Perjured himself, he was admitted to the Bar and was a lawyer. Nothing significant happened to him.

      So no, its not a HUGE deal as we have precedent... the highest law official in the land lied to the court and nothing significant happened.

    8. Re:So can a "complicated algorithm" face perjury? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Clinton lost his law license over his lies. Go look it up.

    9. Re:So can a "complicated algorithm" face perjury? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Let's unilaterally rename them the North American Music Bequesters League of America, and let it stick.

  6. verb or noun? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    It took me a while to figure that out.

    1. Re:verb or noun? by rvw · · Score: 1

      It took me a while to figure that out.

      Good.

    2. Re:verb or noun? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Notices made of down were taken to 50 major lyrics sites by music industry issues.

    3. Re:verb or noun? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I drink 16 espressos a day. I just woke up. Cut me some caffeinated slack.

    4. Re:verb or noun? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Goose or duck down?

  7. I never understood the vendetta against lyrics by sandytaru · · Score: 4, Insightful

    It's not like they're posting the sheet music or the guitar chords, let alone any kind of recording. If you don't already know the tune, the lyrics aren't going to help you understand the actual music. And since singers are so mush-mouthed these days, you need the lyrics to avoid accidentally creating new mondegreens.

    Does iTunes even include the lyrics when you buy a song?

    --
    Occasionally living proof of the Ballmer peak.
    1. Re:I never understood the vendetta against lyrics by Xest · · Score: 5, Insightful

      Also I've known lyrics to a song before but not the name. Being able to search the internet based on lyrics is what has allowed me to find a song I was after.

      Reducing access to lyrics is reducing people's ability to find the name of a product they wish to buy.

    2. Re:I never understood the vendetta against lyrics by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      It's not like they're posting the sheet music or the guitar chords, let alone any kind of recording. If you don't already know the tune, the lyrics aren't going to help you understand the actual music.

      Yeah, but these websites are getting ad revenue, and we can't have people making money out of our product, no sir, not even if the material they're using is a hollow shell of what we actually sell. Think of the profits we're losing! We could be getting that money ourselves! If we could be bothered. Which we couldn't.

      Anyway, stop humming our music in a public place you dirty pirate.

    3. Re:I never understood the vendetta against lyrics by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      Anyway, stop humming our music in a public place you dirty pirate.

      Once we perfect mind reading technology, then we will bill you for every time you think that song that's stuck in your head.

    4. Re:I never understood the vendetta against lyrics by bmo · · Score: 2

      singers are so mush-mouthed these days

      These days? Really?

      And they weren't 45 years ago?

      Go ahead, try to sing "Jumpin' Jack Flash" accurately without looking at a lyrics sheet.

      I dare you.

      --
      BMO

    5. Re:I never understood the vendetta against lyrics by Barny · · Score: 1

      I well see the comedic nature of your post, it is nice to see sarcasm isn't dead on the net :3

      http://youtu.be/vfol_TLLnIw

      --
      ...
      /me sighs
    6. Re:I never understood the vendetta against lyrics by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      For some reason I have a lot of difficulty understanding words that are sung. If it were not for lyrics sites, I would not understand most music. I literally cannot parse words that are sung.

    7. Re:I never understood the vendetta against lyrics by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      It's not like they're posting the sheet music or the guitar chords

      First they came for the guitar chords and we did nothing...

    8. Re:I never understood the vendetta against lyrics by gnasher719 · · Score: 2

      It's not like they're posting the sheet music or the guitar chords, let alone any kind of recording. If you don't already know the tune, the lyrics aren't going to help you understand the actual music. And since singers are so mush-mouthed these days, you need the lyrics to avoid accidentally creating new mondegreens.

      Just by coincidence, I did a search for some sheet music just yesterday. Found lots of matches, checked two. One sold the sheet music for a song for $3.28. The other offered it for free. What they offered was a pdf file with an obviously scanned copy of the first one.

    9. Re:I never understood the vendetta against lyrics by Formorian · · Score: 1

      Wish I had mod points. I can't tell you how many times I've heard a song on the radio at a friends or just out and about or blaring from the radio across the street (rarely listen to actual radio in my car or home) and searched the web by lyrics to find artist/song. Then I went and bought it on itunes.

      Basically they want to reduce sales. I don't understand these people.

    10. Re:I never understood the vendetta against lyrics by jandrese · · Score: 1

      iTunes used to have a plugin that automatically grabbed the lyrics to the song you were playing and put them up on the screen. There was a version for the iPhone as well. The RIAA shut both down almost immediately. As far as I know, there is no legal way to get the lyrics on most songs if they're not published in the booklet, and if you buy eletronically the lyics are virtually never included. Also, I would never pay seperately for the lyrics, that's rediculous.

      The worst part is that those lyric sites always included links to Amazon/iTunes Music Store to buy the song. They were undoubtedly responsible for at least a few sales. The law says they're allowed to act like idiots though, so we gotta let them.

      --

      I read the internet for the articles.
    11. Re:I never understood the vendetta against lyrics by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      And since singers are so mush-mouthed these days

      • What is this song all about?
      • Can't figure any lyrics out
      • How do the words to it go?
      • I wish you'd tell me, I don't know
      • Don't know, don't know, don't know, I don't know!
      • Don't know, don't know, don't know...

      .

      • Now I'm mumblin' and I'm screamin'
      • And I don't know what I'm singin'
      • Crank the volume, ears are bleedin'
      • I still don't know what I'm singin'
      • We're so loud and incoherent
      • Boy, this oughta bug your parents
      • Yeah!
    12. Re:I never understood the vendetta against lyrics by Theaetetus · · Score: 1

      Also I've known lyrics to a song before but not the name. Being able to search the internet based on lyrics is what has allowed me to find a song I was after.

      Reducing access to lyrics is reducing people's ability to find the name of a product they wish to buy.

      Go read the article again. They're only going after unlicensed lyric sites - azlyrics.com will still exist.

    13. Re: I never understood the vendetta against lyrics by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Clearly your solution is to keep buying new music until you find the song you seek.

      By using these lyric sites, you are effectively stealing lost sales from the record companies.

    14. Re:I never understood the vendetta against lyrics by Xest · · Score: 1

      Right, but is it complete? Is it well indexed and searchable? Is it blocked by any corporate firewalls?, any mobile firewalls in places like the UK because of explicit content?

      A reduced number of sites still means a reduced amount of ability to search for your product.

    15. Re:I never understood the vendetta against lyrics by djdanlib · · Score: 2

      Go ahead, try to sing "Jumpin' Jack Flash" accurately without looking at a lyrics sheet.

      I dare you.

      or "Louie Louie"

    16. Re:I never understood the vendetta against lyrics by Theaetetus · · Score: 2

      Right, but is it complete? Is it well indexed and searchable? Is it blocked by any corporate firewalls?, any mobile firewalls in places like the UK because of explicit content?

      A reduced number of sites still means a reduced amount of ability to search for your product.

      But the sites that are being blocked tend to be the ones with malware, obnoxious popups, and weird javascript. A reduced number of sites doesn't actually impair your search ability, if you're only getting rid of the chaff.

    17. Re:I never understood the vendetta against lyrics by Xest · · Score: 1

      Malware filters aren't the only type of filters. Look up content filters.

      Much of the most prominent content filtering software around will block some sites of a category but not all of them.

      But as I said that's not the only issue, there's still the question of whether "licensed" sites provide the same coverage of songs as the combination of non-licensed sites.

      The point is simply that reducing the number of lyric sites reduces the ability of people to find a product. Licensed sites may mitigate that to some degree but they wont make it a non-issue unless they're both as complete and always fully searchable which isn't the case.

    18. Re:I never understood the vendetta against lyrics by fatphil · · Score: 1

      I just pulled a few random CDs off my shelf and searched for some of the lyrics. Typically the sites on the front page of google were ones on the list in that pdf. Therefore the legit sites do not help in finding the kind of music I like, apart from the bands which I consider at one time fairly mainstream. So, once again, the little guy gets burried.

      --
      Also FatPhil on SoylentNews, id 863
    19. Re:I never understood the vendetta against lyrics by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Even when it comes to critically respected bands, it's often much better not to know the lyrics. OK Computer was so much easier to enjoy before I bought the sheet music and accidentally read some of the angsty teenager-targeting lyrics that may as well have come from a NIN album.

    20. Re:I never understood the vendetta against lyrics by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      It's exactly the same problem as posting sheet music or guitar chords/tabs. With exactly the same loopholes that should prevent the music industry from shutting them down. Any sufficiently talented and/or trained musician can listen to a song and write down the lyrics, figure out the music and write it out.

      It seems the music industry wants to punish its PAYING CUSTOMERS for having listened to the music they sell. It's almost like they just want us to buy the music but never listen to it...hey, wait a minute...

      side question: Did they send a request to youtube? You can get videos that play the song AND display the lyrics at the same time! FOR FREE! Scandalous...

    21. Re:I never understood the vendetta against lyrics by Em+Adespoton · · Score: 1

      It's not like they're posting the sheet music or the guitar chords, let alone any kind of recording. If you don't already know the tune, the lyrics aren't going to help you understand the actual music. And since singers are so mush-mouthed these days, you need the lyrics to avoid accidentally creating new mondegreens.

      Does iTunes even include the lyrics when you buy a song?

      The issue here is that there are often multiple groups interested in any musical production:
      1) the person/people who wrote the music
      2) the person/people who wrote the lyrics
      3) the person/people who performed the music/lyrics
      4) the people who produced the recording (this includes the studio engineers, etc)
      5) the organization that distributed the music
      6) the organization that made the music avaialable for personal consumption.

      Now the way things are currently set up, the money gets filtered down in a reverse order, so those who wrote the music/lyrics don't get much.

      #3 is covered by live performance usually, and some of their profits also go back to 2 and 1.

      #2 and 1 make most of their money through reselling, as they don't have the same contract limitations as the performers -- they can resell to anyone wanting to cover the song (alternate performance) and to anyone wanting to produce the music in sheet or audio form. They get peanuts for each use, but those peanuts add up, and are their livelihood (unless it's stuff done by studio writers or performers).

      So it's not the RIAA (3 and above) (we're not talking recordings here) that's doing this, it's the NMPA, who represents groups 1 and 2. While their "methodology" of generating the warnings is extremely suspect, the concept sounds reasonable -- sites publishing other people's lyrics for profit should be paying into the same system they're (ab)using. I'd like to think that prior to a DMCA notice, they'd send out a "please come to a licensing agreement with us" notice, however.

      But any way you look at it, these sites are in direct competition with NMPA members and are using their works, unlike RIAA, who doesn't figure in this story at all.

    22. Re:I never understood the vendetta against lyrics by petsounds · · Score: 1

      Lyrics are protected under copyright in the same was as poetry and prose are. Reprinting (in its entirety) a poem from Yeats or a novel from Haruki Murakami is an equal copyright violation. It has nothing to do with the music portion of a song's copyright.

    23. Re:I never understood the vendetta against lyrics by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      It's a well-known fact that mondegreens cause earworms -- often people can't get a song out of their head, because they're trying to make sense of what it says. If you take away mondegreens, then the record labels lose a considerable source of impulse-purchase revenue from people trying to satisfy a NEED to hear a song they just heard on the radio.

      Not that I'm saying this is a good thing, but it's a reason why they might be targeting lyrics sites.

      p.s. I only listen to the radio when I'm in my car, and I only drive 50 miles/week, so I don't hear new stuff very often. I've recently had to use lyrics sites to get "Royals" out of my head. I couldn't understand "diamonds on your timepiece," and it was driving me mad! Twenty years ago I might have just gone out and bought the CD to clear the earworm, but it went away as soon as I checked some random lyrics site.

    24. Re:I never understood the vendetta against lyrics by intermodal · · Score: 1

      I have Louie Louie down. I even know it backwards!

      --
      In SOVIET RUSSIA... erm...NSA AMERICA, the Internet logs onto YOU!
    25. Re:I never understood the vendetta against lyrics by ffflala · · Score: 1

      The short answer is: money. Lots and lots of money, because lyric copyrights will account for up to 50% of the royalties from a tune.

      When you're dealing with music sales and (theoretically) getting cuts to artists, lyric authorship & copyright is another piece of the pie, often a substantial one. Essentially, if you have a different person claiming copyright credit for the lyrics, you decrease the royalties earned by the composer of the music part -- the tune, changes, melody, structure.

      Look at the credits for a lot of music dating from 1976 to around the mid-90s. Often, as artists developed a career, you will notice that the credited music/lyrics by author names drop from many to just the band member or main artist, whereas in the earliest releases from an artist, you'll many names included in these credits. A standard trick is for industry folks to make "helpful suggestions" that the artist incorporates. Now that suit has become an author, and will get 50% of the royalties from your new hit.

    26. Re:I never understood the vendetta against lyrics by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      'Jumpin' Jack Flash' isn't really too bad. You should have used 'Louis Louis' Kingsmen version.

    27. Re:I never understood the vendetta against lyrics by mcgrew · · Score: 1

      iTunes used to have a plugin that automatically grabbed the lyrics to the song you were playing and put them up on the screen.

      Amarok does that. Once in a while a song will come up with two or three lines followed by {{Gracenote Shutdown}} but not very often.

    28. Re:I never understood the vendetta against lyrics by Bite+The+Pillow · · Score: 1

      They want to move lyrics searches from free fan sites maintained by people who sell advertising and get money off page views, to sites that do exactly the same thing but share ad revenue with RIAA sites.

      It's not even a challenge to come up with the explanation. It might be a dime a year, but RIAA does not want people playing copy/paste and making money without adding value.

      Honestly, most lyrics sites are terrible and I support de-duplicating as much of the internet as possible. A few fringe sites to make up for when all of the mainstream sites go AJAX only can remain of course.

      Every jackhat who learns how to spit out html and store stuff in a database doesn't need to set up a website that does exactly what something else does, and I support anyone who enforces this.

    29. Re:I never understood the vendetta against lyrics by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Or anything by Sting

  8. Le Sigh by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0
    1. Please don't let rapgenius be on that list! Please no rapgenius! Please, no! Please, no! No, no, no!
    2. ... looks at #1 on the list
    3. GODDAMMIT!
  9. Bit of an own goal, surely. by 91degrees · · Score: 2

    I'm less sympathetic to commercial infringement, and I guess this is most likely infringing, but I can't help thinking this is pointless.

    Lyrics sites can't generate a lot of direct revenue for the music industry through lyric licensing fees. They do generate indirect revenue by people googling for the song they heard a snippet of and then buying an album. Also many of the ads are going to be related to the song (listen to this song on last.fm, buy the ringtone) so it seems odd that they're putting the effort in to stop this.

  10. MAY? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    The National Music Publishers Association said Monday that it sent take-down notices to what it claims are 50 websites that post lyrics to songs and generate ad revenue but may not be licensed to do so.

    Excuse me, MAY? If you are issuing a take down notice to a website and you DON'T KNOW if it is even infringing, isn't that deliberate perjury under provisions of the DMCA? There needs to be stiff, rapidly escalating, monetary penalties for issuing phoney take down notices.

  11. afraid by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

    I remember lots of lyrics and if friends ask me, I tell them what they sing exactly in the song.
    Should I be afraid they'll sue me next?

  12. Educational purposes. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

    Ergo, not covered by copyright.

    And moreover should they actually own the copyrights?

    For a start, they don't, the MPAA are working on behalf of the copyright owners. So they, the MPAA don't own copyrights. They have not been asked to issue the takedown by the copyright owner.

    Secondly, the label will own the copyright, but that work was done as a work for hire to reduce the rights of the actual artists, and works for hire aren't covered under copyright like that.

    Thirdly, even where the other two hurdles happen to be passed, the copyright was for a limited time. That is no longer the case, so in the quid-pro-quo of copyrights, the owners of the copyrights should not hold the copyrights at all: the rights should be struck off.

    Lastly, they aren't making money from the lyrics. They are making money off the ads on their site and they have costs of running the site which any business can deduct. If the copyright owners don't want the unauthorised making of money off adds on the site, then they should pony up money to pay for the sites and request that any revenues from the pages are forwarded to them.

  13. A new level of foot shooting by EireannX · · Score: 1

    I mostly use lyric sites to discover what a catchy song is called when I only know one or two lines.

    I totally get how they can argue that file sharing sites etc cost them revenue, but this!?

  14. Why? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 4, Interesting

    These people are doing work and you think that this is wrong.

    Why?

    The revenue is not coming from selling the lyrics, they're coming from ads on the pages, so they are NOT making money off someone else's work.

    Moreover, the entire frigging point of capitalism is making money off someone else's work: otherwise there would be NO PAID MANAGEMENT. NO SHAREHOLDERS. NO INTEREST RATES ON LOANS. EVERY one of those is making money off someone else's work.

    Yet I bet you won't call any of those wrong and illegal and justly forbidden, will you?

    1. Re:Why? by jythie · · Score: 3, Insightful

      In all of those other cases there is some type of exchange going on. The issue here is that you have group A producing content and then group B taking that content without compensating A and then using it as the basis for making money. It can be argued (pretty easily) that the lyric generators are adding value in the process, and thus there is an exchange going on between consumer and aggregator (via advertiser), but the relationship between producer and aggregator is completely one way.

      While I think the music industry is being a jackass and this will do nothing positive for them, legally and even ethically I can see their point.

    2. Re:Why? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      These people are doing work and you think that this is wrong.

      Why?

      The revenue is not coming from selling the lyrics, they're coming from ads on the pages, so they are NOT making money off someone else's work.

      Moreover, the entire frigging point of capitalism is making money off someone else's work: otherwise there would be NO PAID MANAGEMENT. NO SHAREHOLDERS. NO INTEREST RATES ON LOANS. EVERY one of those is making money off someone else's work.

      Yet I bet you won't call any of those wrong and illegal and justly forbidden, will you?

      Muslims would; usury is a sin.

    3. Re:Why? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      The relationship CAN be one way between the Musician and the Aggregator... why? Because services like these DRIVE music sales. This "One way relationship" is one part of the whole.

      People want the songs to go with the lyrics? They buy an MP3 or a CD.

      The problem is people are blinded by the trees and fail to look at the forest. THESE kinds of services are what lead to music sales.

      This is every bit as stupid as suing a mechanic or teacher for playing music on the radio - claiming it's a public performance and needs to be licensed.

      The moral problem is middlemen who think they deserve a piece of every part and parcel of the circle.

      Legal? Possible, but ethical? You have warped sense of ethics.

    4. Re:Why? by Goaway · · Score: 1

      These people are doing work and you think that this is wrong.

      Hardly. The vast majority of them just scrape each other's databases and stuff them full of ads. They are pathetic bottom feeders trying to make a quick buck.

    5. Re:Why? by NatasRevol · · Score: 1

      The revenue is not coming from selling the lyrics, they're coming from ads on the pages, so they are NOT making money off someone else's work.

      How much money would they be making if someone else's work, ie the lyrics, weren't on the page?

      zero fucking dollars

      So don't tell me they're not making money off someone else's work. That's just willful ignorance.

      --
      There are two types of people in the world: Those who crave closure
    6. Re:Why? by lgw · · Score: 4, Interesting

      Why is it even relevant?

      Lyrics site are renown far and wide as the primary distributers of drive-by malware and general bad hygiene. No one would go to lyrics sites of there were an official alternative. The sites ad value by making the lyrics available, and they can only do that because neither the bands nor the labels bother. More power to them; hope they all make millions.

      --
      Socialism: a lie told by totalitarians and believed by fools.
    7. Re:Why? by Urza9814 · · Score: 1

      In all of those other cases there is some type of exchange going on. The issue here is that you have group A producing content and then group B taking that content without compensating A and then using it as the basis for making money.

      Who is A and who is B?

      I know for a fact that the artists directly supply the lyrics for some songs on some of the lyrics sites I use. Rapgenius.com being one that does a particularly good job of showing this. But the labels have no say in that, so by their logic that's still unlicensed.

    8. Re:Why? by petsounds · · Score: 1

      The artists may provide lyrics, but they are the ones who put the songs under copyright via ASCAP or BMI, not the labels (assuming the artists actually wrote the song). Just because they printed them on a CD booklet or vinyl insert for the benefit of fans doesn't mean that the fans now own the lyrics. This is no different than if someone put up HTML versions of the Harry Potter books on a site and placed ads on every page.

      I would also draw a difference here between fair use for non-commercial purposes, and the 99% of the lyrics sites out there who are trying to make a business out of reprinting someone else's copyrighted work. IANAL, so I don't know if fair use would really cover a non-commercial site of lyrics, but I'd have a lot more sympathy for that use.

      If they want to make this thing legit, they should set up a lyrics site where a portion of the ad revenue for each artists' lyric pages goes back to them.

    9. Re:Why? by Urza9814 · · Score: 1

      The artists may provide lyrics, but they are the ones who put the songs under copyright via ASCAP or BMI, not the labels

      In most cases the artists are required by the contract to transfer the copyright to the labels. So the artists are technically infringing copyright when they post lyrics to the songs that they themselves have written.

      There are also plenty of cases where the labels force websites to take down copyrights and the artists response is "We wish they hadn't done that, but we have absolutely no control over it" -- the band Jucifer is one such example.

      See also:
      http://entertainment.howstuffworks.com/music-royalties2.htm

      In most music publishing agreements, there is a requirement that the songwriter assign the copyright of the written song to the publisher. This is known as a "transfer of copyright," or simply "assignment." This, in effect, transfers ownership of the song to the publisher in exchange for the payment to the songwriter of royalties in amounts and time intervals agreed upon in the publishing contract. Typically, song copyrights are held by the music publishers, while sound recordings are controlled by the record companies.

    10. Re:Why? by Urza9814 · · Score: 1

      There are also plenty of cases where the labels force websites to take down copyrights and the artists response is "We wish they hadn't done that, but we have absolutely no control over it" -- the band Jucifer is one such example.

      Sorry, that clearly should have been "take down LYRICS", not copyrights...

      Slashdot really needs to get with the times and add an 'edit' button...I'm getting dependent on having one these days....

    11. Re:Why? by Petfish · · Score: 0

      This. I think that the error many are making here is in assuming that those that created the lyrics - i.e. wrote them - own them, or even have the authority to reproduce them, or allow others to reproduce them. They do not.

    12. Re:Why? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      For instance, I will let the offending lawyer keep his home and family if he will only kill his client.
      Reasonable exchange and advisable as well. They ARE only men, not very good examples, either.
      When you realize you are on a level playing field with specific rules of conduct, the world is your oyster and the MAFIAA becomes as big a joke as law enforcement.
            -L.Luthor

    13. Re:Why? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Muslims would; usury is a sin.

      Many Christians also consider usury a sin.

    14. Re:Why? by kermidge · · Score: 1

      "This is no different than if someone put up HTML versions of the Harry Potter books on a site and placed ads on every page."

      Quite different, I say. Reading the book is reading the book, albeit sans the physical package in my hand (unless I print it out.) Reading a song's lyrics is _not_ hearing the music.

      On the other stuff, I would like very much to see some real, supportable numbers, starting with how much each operator of a lyric site is netting after hosting and breaking out attendant costs, for instance. People can 'argue' from established viewpoints until the cows come home, but there can be little useful discussion without a sufficient body of fact to let everyone see what is happening as distinct from what they suppose or claim is going on.

      Is there infringement going on? Perhaps, although one might argue from greater good. Let's not for one minute forget that copyright (and patents) were established to secure for a short time potential advantage to author - the intent was always rapid entry into public domain. The former was for incentive and reward for creators, the latter for common good and rapid flourishing of "the arts" - which in the original use of the term covered inventions as well.

      Copyright was never by any stretch of the imagination considered to be a perpetual money machine for people who have done nothing to foster creativity. Further, before it gets to any middleman or rentier, any costs involved in production or distribution are a matter between them and the artist; if that involves a cut of, say, CD sales for a period of time, it's still a private matter between them - it's not a contract with the public.

      Lastly, legal is not necessarily right. It is to be hoped that right would coincide with public good.

      Meanwhile, until I see vouchsafed numbers I'm going with lyric sites as being helpful. What I would like to see is direct discussion between artist and site operator, not for takedown, but for equitable sharing, up to the end of a shorter copyright period. (Heck, given some of the garbled lyrics that show up, I'd like to see accurate ones also. One might think that a songwriter would want them to be correct.)

  15. ABOUT TIME !! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    These web sites get more from ads than the MPAA pays in royalities !! This cannot continue !! Why should some dweeb in Romania make money on artists' work when the artists make pennues a day (not counting those from heaven) !! This is action well worth taken !!

    1. Re:ABOUT TIME !! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      M-ovies PAA. RIAA doesn't pay royalities. Record companies do. That is the idea. Turns out that doesn't happens as it should. But there is iTunes. Pandora pays eLPM of 1 cent so and artist can clean up with only a few billion listens.

      And I do so love a parade. Yes, thank you for your support.

  16. kareoke ? by fluffythedestroyer · · Score: 1

    Whats next, kareoke ? oh wait, it is... crap. Well to be fair, I love lyrics website cause I know some singers just don't know how to talk correctly. it's like they have a hot potato in their mouth. I mean, listen to the granpa of heavy metal... Ozzy osbourne... Who the hell understands that guy when he talks. Sure, he's a great guy, I really love is music but... You need the enigma machine to decode when he speaks.

  17. Move your hosting to Antigua (:-)) by davecb · · Score: 3, Funny

    --dave

    --
    davecb@spamcop.net
  18. It needs to be shared by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Funny

    MILEY CYRUS LYRICS
    "Wrecking Ball"

    We clawed, we chained our hearts in vain
    We jumped never asking why
    We kissed, I fell under your spell.
    A love no one could deny

    Don't you ever say I just walked away
    I will always want you
    I can't live a lie, running for my life
    I will always want you

    I came in like a wrecking ball
    I never hit so hard in love
    All I wanted was to break your walls
    All you ever did was wreck me
    Yeah, you, you wreck me

    I put you high up in the sky
    And now, you're not coming down
    It slowly turned, you let me burn
    And now, we're ashes on the ground

    Don't you ever say I just walked away
    I will always want you
    I can't live a lie, running for my life
    I will always want you

    I came in like a wrecking ball
    I never hit so hard in love
    All I wanted was to break your walls
    All you ever did was wreck me

    I came in like a wrecking ball
    Yeah, I just closed my eyes and swung
    Left me crashing in a blazing fall
    All you ever did was wreck me
    Yeah, you, you wreck me

    I never meant to start a war
    I just wanted you to let me in
    And instead of using force
    I guess I should've let you win
    I never meant to start a war
    I just wanted you to let me in
    I guess I should've let you win

    Don't you ever say I just walked away
    I will always want you

    I came in like a wrecking ball
    I never hit so hard in love
    All I wanted was to break your walls
    All you ever did was wreck me

    I came in like a wrecking ball
    Yeah, I just closed my eyes and swung
    Left me crashing in a blazing fall
    All you ever did was wreck me
    Yeah, you, you wreck me
    Yeah, you, you wreck me

    1. Re:It needs to be shared by Chemisor · · Score: 1

      I don't understand... I read through the whole thing and nobody gets naked. Is this some kind of ripoff?

    2. Re:It needs to be shared by Bite+The+Pillow · · Score: 1

      I don't remember wrecking you, but I did feel tingly in my bits this morning. And a mild hangover explains the missing memories, and dignity.

  19. Free advertising by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Idiots, it's free advertising! My guess is they know the sites aren't going to shut down, they just want their licensing fees.

  20. Single point of failure by nurb432 · · Score: 0

    This really needs to be addressed, for the average person. We cant continue having single points of failure for services. There is too much at stake, both for the content consumers and the people trying to do their best to provide it.

    --
    ---- Booth was a patriot ----
  21. Time for the pitchforks? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Seems this has gotten out of hand. And the politicans who should be defending *our*, not *their* interests are looing the other way.

    What other solution there is?

  22. Identifying a song by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    If I listen to a song on the radio, I can identify it by searching on the internet for a small part of the lyrics. How would me not being to identify a song I might decide to buy help the record companies?

  23. And by the lyrics sites by kimvette · · Score: 1, Redundant

    today, not a single fuck was given.

    --
    The Christian Right is Neither (Christian nor right). See: Matthew 23, Matthew 25, Ezekiel 16:48-50
    1. Re:And by the lyrics sites by kimvette · · Score: 1

      Now for a more productive post: This is insanely stupid. Since DJs are a thing of the past the artist/title usually isn't announced so unless you have soundhound ready to go what you do is go home and query on the lyrics, find the artist/title on a lyrics site then go to Worst Buy, Sprawl*Mart, or Amazon or Google Play or iTunes and buy the music. They're shooting themselves in the foot yet again.

      Obviously the music industry STILL doesn't "get" teh interwebz.

      --
      The Christian Right is Neither (Christian nor right). See: Matthew 23, Matthew 25, Ezekiel 16:48-50
    2. Re:And by the lyrics sites by kimvette · · Score: 1

      "However, there is anecdotal evidence that these lyric websites generate huge web
      traffic and may involve more money than one might think. "

      My anecdotal evidence is that if I am not quick enough with SoundHound (usually while driving) I google the lyrics then buy the content on CD or iTunes or Google Play. Music industry lawyers, your clients make more money by allowing the alleged "infringement" than not allowing it - just like in the days of Napster.

      Morons.

      --
      The Christian Right is Neither (Christian nor right). See: Matthew 23, Matthew 25, Ezekiel 16:48-50
  24. The only way to stop the music industry... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    ...is to organize and sustain an effective boycott. Stop purchasing music from RIAA associated labels. Without revenue, they can't pay their lawyers.

    1. Re:The only way to stop the music industry... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      I think a Mafia-style approach would be far more effective. After you shatter enough kneecaps people start getting the hint.

  25. Evil vs. Bad by ScottCooperDotNet · · Score: 2

    I can't say I'm all that sorry to see evil (MAFIAA) go after the bad (shady lyric sites) since many of these sites are copying from each other, hiding lyrics behind JavaScript, have pop-ups, and in some cases carrying potentially infected ads. There are a few sites like SongMeanings.com that also include user comments, but most operations just seem to be trading other people's copyrights for ad impressions.

    Top 50 Undesirable Lyric Websites Oct 22nd 2013
    Rank | Website | final score %
    01 www.rapgenius.com 12.77%
    02 www.lyricsmania.com 10.4925%
    03 www.lyricstranslate.com 8.41%
    04 www.stlyrics.com 6.76125%
    05 www.lyricsreg.com 6.71375%
    06 www.lyricstime.com 6.05125%
    07 www.lyrster.com 5.675%
    08 www.parolesBmusique.com 5.18%
    09 www.kovideo.net 5.0975%
    10 www.songonlyrics.com 4.86625%
    11 www.indexBofBmp3s.com 4.805%
    12 www.lyricstranslations.com 4.79%
    13 www.karaokeBlyrics.net 4.665%
    14 www.romanticBlyrics.com 4.385%
    15 www.maxilyrics.com 4.34375%
    16 www.poemhunter.com 4.2375%
    17 www.metalBhead.org 4.225%
    18 www.songteksten.nl 4.21%
    19 www.lyricsres.com 4.18%
    20 www.lyricsdepot.com 4.09125%
    21 www.songtextemania.com 3.95%
    22 www.lyricsboy.com 3.81%
    23 www.elyricsworld.com 3.6975%
    24 www.eBchords.com 3.69%
    25 www.popdust.com 3.475%
    26 www.hotnewsonglyrics.co 3.41875%
    27 www.anysonglyrics.com 3.405%
    28 www.guitaretab.com 3.405%
    29 www.allthelyrics.com 3.375%
    30 www.oldielyrics.com 3.3475%
    31 www.musicloversgroup.com 3.34%
    32 www.karafun.com 3.225%
    33 www.lyrics.astraweb.com 3.18375%
    34 www.videokeman.com 3.1575%
    35 www.lybio.net 2.935%
    36 www.urbanlyrics.com 2.8725%
    37 www.asklyrics.com 2.8425%
    38 www.bmusiclyrics.com 2.8275%
    39 www.nomorelyrics.net 2.7975%
    40 www.plyrics.com 2.7825%
    41 www.hitslyrics.com 2.765%
    42 www.vagalume.com.br 2.665%
    43 www.lyricsforsong.net 2.66375%
    44 www.seeklyrics.com 2.61%
    45 www.letras.mus.br 2.565%
    46 www.lyricspinas.com 2.52%
    47 www.parolesmania.com 2.515%
    48 www.cowboylyrics.com 2.4825%
    49 www.lyricsmansion.com 2.36875%
    50 www.digitaldreamdoor.com 2.35125%

    Interesting to see .nl and .br sites in the list.

    1. Re:Evil vs. Bad by MrKaos · · Score: 4, Interesting

      I can't say I'm all that sorry to see evil (MAFIAA) go after the bad (shady lyric sites) since many of these sites are copying from each other,

      Many musicians use lyrics sites to check if it's an original idea versus a existing one. As usual, the music industry is fucking over musicians, I doubt they will pay musicians for the advertising revenue that the lyrics attract.

      --
      My ism, it's full of beliefs.
    2. Re:Evil vs. Bad by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Musicians are fucking themselves over signing contracts with limited rights to their own works.

    3. Re:Evil vs. Bad by swillden · · Score: 1

      Many musicians use lyrics sites to check if it's an original idea versus a existing one.

      Then they can use any of the handful of lyrics sites which license the lyrics and can legally distribute them. This isn't going to make the lyrics unavailable, just reduce the number of sites that all distribute the same content.

      --
      Note to ACs: I usually delete AC replies without reading them. If you want to talk to me, log in.
    4. Re:Evil vs. Bad by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I can't say I'm all that sorry to see evil (MAFIAA) go after the bad (shady lyric sites) since many of these sites are copying from each other...

      I was always under the impression many were the same site with just a different name and slightly different layout with the intention of drowning out all other competition off of search engines to make sure they get all those ad hits. Much in the same vein as typo-domain-squatters and alternate TLD squatters that get revenue from those who mistype the name or misremember the TLD of a site. There are groups of the lyric sites with all the same errors; same odd break lines; same inconsistent way of dealing with the chorus; same inconsistent punctuation and capitalisation; extremely similar layout and delivery of lyrics, ads, and alternate offerings (ringtones et al); and such. Then another group with slightly different set of errors, break lines, etc. It becomes really noticeable if you have ever needed to look up the lyrics to a song and have a difficult time finding one with the correct lyrics. I once ended up looking through maybe 20 of the sites for the lyrics of one song before giving up and just typing out the lyrics while listening to the song so I could include part of it in a paper, since I could easily understand the singer anyway.

    5. Re:Evil vs. Bad by AnalogDiehard · · Score: 1

      I know of at least one lyric website that downloads a virus (metrolyrics dot com). That one was a PITA to remove and I never went there again.

      --
      Eternity: will that be smoking, or non-smoking? I Corinthians 6:9-10
  26. Torrent a dump of the databases by nctritech · · Score: 1

    Since they risk being shut down, the DBs need to end up torrented by an "unknown security breach at YourCompanyNameHere.com" and they'll never go away. It doesn't fix the problem with the destruction of ad revenue, but it undermines the NMPA's actions.

  27. Most are wrong anyway by clickclickdrone · · Score: 1

    I've actually looked up a few lyric sites recently and they all had different variations. They look like most are phonetic so I'm guessing there's an industry somewhere using Chinese or Indian workers to transcribe the lyrics by listening to the songs rather than getting them from the publishers.

    --
    I want a list of atrocities done in your name - Recoil
    1. Re:Most are wrong anyway by Russ1642 · · Score: 2

      The lyrics at these crappy sites are almost universally wrong. Mistakes everywhere. Don't even get me started on sites that include chords or tabs.

  28. The "Music Industry" is just a bunch of lawyers by Andover+Chick · · Score: 3, Insightful

    It is such a sham they even call it the "music industry". The amount of assets in the form of recording studios and distribution is relatively quite small. What's big is the number of office buildings housing lawyers. If you ever drive around the West Hollywood or Beverley Hills area you'll see big office buildings full of lawyers. That's what the "industry" is...

  29. Imagine by JustOK · · Score: 2

    Imagine there's no...damn. [[please deposit $.99 to continue]]

    --
    rewriting history since 2109
  30. The lyrics sites have already responded by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    The lyrics sites in question have already consulted with their lawyers, and released the following statement which clarifies their positions on the issue:

    Fuck you, I won't do what you tell me
    Fuck you, I won't do what you tell me
    Fuck you, I won't do what you tell me
    Fuck you, I won't do what you tell me
    Fuck you, I won't do what you tell me
    Fuck you, I won't do what you tell me
    Fuck you, I won't do what you tell me
    Fuck you, I won't do what you tell me
    Fuck you, I won't do what you tell me!
    Fuck you, I won't do what you tell me!
    Fuck you, I won't do what you tell me!
    Fuck you, I won't do what you tell me!
    Fuck you, I won't do what you tell me!
    Fuck you, I won't do what you tell me!
    Fuck you, I won't do what you tell me!
    Fuck you, I won't do what you tell me!
    Motherfucker!

    (fuck you slashdot junk text filter)

  31. I'll tell you why by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Insightful

    That would be making money off their own work. And they don't have to: copyrights will bring in money without any further work from them and they're not in the business of doing work. Just getting paid.

    Moreover, the entire bloody thing is run by accountants now. And to an accountant, EVERY sum is zero-sum. Double entry bookkeeping. Look it up. True fact.

    So if someone else is making money, that's not "them making money", that's MONEY LOST TO YOU. ***EVEN THOUGH*** you are not going to do that work to get the money EVER.

    Moreover, the ROI is very low and the work high, and that's just too much like hard work.

    So, rather than do all that work and maybe make a tiny bit of money, they whine and bitch and insist that nobody can make money off "their work" (whilst completely ignoring the money they made off the work of their teacher teaching them their craft. Scrounging bastards").

  32. Lyrics sites have been around for a LONG time by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Lyrics sites were one of the first things I remember when I first checked out the World Wide Web in Mosaic back in 1993.

    Any sane judge is going to want to know why it has taken them 20 years to get around to filing a lawsuit.

  33. But is it a violation? by RevWaldo · · Score: 1

    Most music publishers stopped including lyrics with CDs ages ago, and almost never post them on say, the band's web site. The vast majority of lyrics on these sights are poor transcriptions posted by fans, which they lyric sites systematically swipe from each other. So if one site says the line is "there's a bathroom on the right", they pretty much all do.

    Are less-than-perfect transcriptions of lyrics that have never been officially published a violation of copyright?

    .

    1. Re:But is it a violation? by NoImNotNineVolt · · Score: 1

      Hold me closer Tony Danza.

      Count the head lice on the highway.

      --
      Chuuch. Preach. Tabernacle.
  34. Lyrics.ch by Jason+Levine · · Score: 1

    I definitely remember lyrics.ch. I used it often to find the lyrics to that song I loved or to look up that song I heard on the radio but didn't know the name/singer of. In fact, with the latter case, a visit to Lyrics.ch would sometimes result in a sale for the recording industry. After all, if I loved that brand new song by that brand new band on the radio but didn't know either one by name, I'd be unable to purchase their works. After a visit to Lyrics.ch, I'd have been able to purchase their CD.

    Nowadays, it would be even easier to generate sales. Just place a "Buy it on Amazon/Google Play/iTunes" button with a link to the song and these lyrics sites could drive profits to the record labels. They should view these sites as free advertising, not copyright violators. However, if they wanted some modicum of control, perhaps they should make a "lyrics site" license with some easy-to-follow requirements (e.g. no pop-up ads, no malware served, no links to "free downloads", links to Amazon/Google Play/iTunes, etc.) and a low cost of application. Then lyrics sites could "go legit" without too much fuss and the record labels would get the free publicity they generate.

    --
    My sci-fi novel, Ghost Thief, is now available from Amazon.com.
  35. Cutting off your nose to spite your face by korbulon · · Score: 4, Insightful

    That's what this amounts to. And lost revenue. I've lost count of the number of times where I've been out in public and overheard pieces of a song I liked and committed key phrases to memory to google later. Never fails to find the song. (And frankly, sometimes the results are embarrassing. I like that shit?!)

    1. Re:Cutting off your nose to spite your face by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Sounds like you need an application on your cell phone. Something like SoundHound can identify a song and the band in a few seconds. Considering the background noises where I've used it, it does a very good job.

    2. Re:Cutting off your nose to spite your face by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Agreed, and I have purchased some of the music I found this way. So next time it will be harder for me to find the music and therefore I might not end up purchasing it.

  36. Re:Share! by hoboroadie · · Score: 1

    When there's a real person out behind the website, like Lucky Wilbury, or Calin Coburn, then the right thing to do is patronise the legitimate source.
    How many of the "protected" artists are offering their own sites for this stuff?

    --
    They feared that it could be used to suppress protest or support unpopular rule.
  37. Welcome, my son, to the machine ... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Let's see you take the subject line above down,
    motherfuckers.

    People want to see lyrics because they have probably
    already got the music, and they like it.

    You "music industry" idiots are biting the hand that feeds your sorry asses.

    Me, I will never buy so much as one more song from you people,
    because you have given me reason not to buy from you. Instead I
    will buy from independent bands directly.

  38. Where is Slashdot on that list? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Happy birthday to you/happy birthday to you/happy birthday to auntie (pause)/happy birthday to you.

    That should fix it.

  39. How to kill your own sale by aepervius · · Score: 1

    Look, I am not an american, and i don't know all the music outside. But if I hear a tune I like, I google the lyric, et voila ! A new sale for EMI/whoever. If you remove the lyric web site... There is no way I can find out. Congratulation you killed sales.

    --
    C. Sagan : A demon haunted world:
    http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/0345409469/
    visit randi.org
  40. they are not reducing your access by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    or eliminating your ability to search. They are ensuring they get ad revenue from your search destination.

  41. Huh by rossdee · · Score: 1

    The lyrics don't belong to the record companies, they belong to the song writer (who may or may not be the artist that is singing them.

  42. Re:"could care less"... by hoboroadie · · Score: 1

    It may be a regional thing. I hear it that way very often here in California. Occasionally even used correctly as the OP had it.

    --
    They feared that it could be used to suppress protest or support unpopular rule.
  43. I actually need sites like those by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    I run a FEC which plays music and since the service we use for obtaining the music in the first place (commercial service) doesn't give me the lyrics, I need to screen them for profanity. My choices are:

    a) listen to each and every song, and as badly as some of these artists 'sing', I can't guarantee that I get it right and pick up any profane words
    b) look up the song on a lyric site and skim it for profanity or keyword search it - takes about 3 minutes for a dozen songs vs an hour listening to all the tracks.

    Music sites are just really jumping the shark - suing lyric sites? Over ad revenue?? For providing a service they refuse to provide themselves???

  44. A few issues need to be addressed. by nimbius · · Score: 2

    1. before lyrics sites, listeners simply didnt have access to much of the lyrical content of the music they were exposed to. industry cronies like the RIAA didnt give a shit if the poetic art of a song was conveyed legibly or eloquently; the tipper sticker is still at their discretion and used liberally to bump or kill a song or artists popularity. These lyrics sites stepped up and helped promote artists directly by engaging their listeners with informative and open information in most cases as to the content of a song, not just the sound of it. lyrics sites had forums dedicated to the meanings of songs as well as where to purchase them. As a parent, you appreciated these sites because it let you enforce or relax certain censorships against your child without having to resort to a vague and condescending sticker on the tin which of course, is not present on mp3s.

    2. litigation cannot stop the internet much as cloistered catholic monks could not stop the spread of literacy. many lyrics sites will go dark to avoid litigation, but one can reasonably expect the site owners have an absolute plethora of other names and domains they can fall back on. Remember, the music industry trade association in question isnt proposing a solution to the problem of the lack of song lyrics in popular culture, theyre just enforcing trade and copyright at the behest of their stakeholders. lyric databases can be created and dissemenated across tor or through magnet links in bittorrent if need be.

    3. a smaller point but the university of georgia's music industry shill happens to be david lowery: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/David_Lowery
    David is a musician famous mostly for the song 'low.' as far as most are concerned hes a relatively one hit wonder. so Yet another internationally renowned, nationally proven and locally beloved music figure has joined the staff this semester, and heâ(TM)s no slouch next to the other big names already there. 2 years later he just so happens to work on a project to help litigate lyric sites? it feels like the university of georgia might be a 'stacked deck' in this case used to justify litigation under the guise of academic research. Seeing as hes not published and his algorythm as well as its findings lack peer review outside a multi million dollar industry litigation agency, if he really is the researcher then we've got problems. if hwoever hes just a semester instructor, http://www.terry.uga.edu/news/releases/david-lowery-to-teach-spring-semester-course-for-ugas-music-business-certif
    then id like to know the engineer or scientist and see more of their work.

    IMHO, lowery has an axe to grind and is being used nicely by the industry to grind it (Metallica anyone?) hes not a top 10 for any label, so if this one fails theres no chance we lose a major investment...after all this is a guy on his blog who equates playing low-budget venues with serving in iraq
    http://www.davidlowerymusic.com/300-songs-blog/blog/48-friends-3-guys-walk-into-a-bar-in-canoga-park-why-being-backstage-at-a-low-grade-music-festival-is-like-being-in-iraq
    hes also posted tabs and lyrics to the songs from his band, Cracker. now correct me if im wrong, but your label owns that song. they own the tabs, they own the melody, they own your stage presence and likeness. http://www.davidlowerymusic.com/300-songs-blog/blog/45-movie-star-and-get-off-this-cracker-more-on-selling-out-the-marc-jacobs-edition-m1-tank
    if Sony or the RIAA took any of this se

    --
    Good people go to bed earlier.
    1. Re:A few issues need to be addressed. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      David is a musician famous mostly for the song 'low.' as far as most are concerned hes a relatively one hit wonder.

      That's actually quite humorously relevant to me.

      I used to hear the song Low on the radio back in the 90's. Never knew what it was called, never knew who it was by. Not less than two months ago I decided to finally search the web for some of the lyrics that I remembered and I discovered the name of the song and that it was by Cracker, and read a little bit about them to learn more. Without lyric sites I would have never learned about this music.

    2. Re:A few issues need to be addressed. by korbulon · · Score: 1

      Without lyric sites I would have never learned about [David Lowery's] music.

      Are you saying it's like rain on your wedding day?

    3. Re:A few issues need to be addressed. by NoImNotNineVolt · · Score: 1

      Cracker's "Low" was a great tune. Even better than the Crash Test Dummies' "Mmm mmm mmm mmm".

      I mean, junkie cosmonauts? Makes me want to go searching for a dirty needle.

      --
      Chuuch. Preach. Tabernacle.
    4. Re:A few issues need to be addressed. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I see what you did there. Algorythm. Hehe.

  45. The End of the World by nomasteryoda · · Score: 1

    Britney Spears was a 21st century human singer. Her song "Toxic", a "traditional ballad," was played on Lady Cassandra's "iPod". The "iPod" is really a Jukebox and no one knows the lyrics to the song. The Music "Industry" destroyed said lyrics in a veiled attempt to prevent paying customers from knowing what the artist was singing. The effect was actually destruction of their own markets... Fools I tell you. They know not what they do. Here are some alternatives: Jamendo, Free Music Archive, Magnatune

    --
    - Good things come to he who waits... but, but Arch Linux FTW!
  46. Re:In the Garden of Eden by hoboroadie · · Score: 1

    I'm pretty sure Doug Ingle never even knew the actual lyrics.

    --
    They feared that it could be used to suppress protest or support unpopular rule.
  47. Not taking down *all* lyrics sites by Theaetetus · · Score: 5, Informative

    Unlike many of the posters above who are saying that this will kill music sales because when they don't know the artist or song title, they search for lyrics, I actually read the article - they're targeting only unlicensed lyrics sites. The fully licensed azlyrics.com will still exist, as will lyricfind.com and musicmatch.com. In fact, it appears that the ones that are targeted are the ones that have tons of pop-ups, malware advertisements, redirecting scripts, etc. So, good.

    1. Re:Not taking down *all* lyrics sites by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      This is what I came in to say. Some of these lyric sites are frankly crap. Sucks to be them to have their stuff taken down. But yes copyright does extend to lyrics (think it is even specifically called out in the statutes). These sites are many times rescrapes of other websites. Usually they are nothing more than thinly disguised web popup sites meant to siphon money from google at the expense of some real lyric site.

      However, it is because of the byzantine rules they have created shows like WKRP are badly butchered when put on DVD. A show about people who love music does not have the music? How does that work?

    2. Re:Not taking down *all* lyrics sites by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I don't like the popups and malware etc. etc. but the music industry is still going too far. You can put lipstick on a pig, but it's still a pig.

    3. Re:Not taking down *all* lyrics sites by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Well there. The internet is black and white after all. I guess we just should have trusted them to do the right thing in the first place.

    4. Re:Not taking down *all* lyrics sites by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      To use one example from their list, rapgenius.com is arguably the absolute best site for hip-hop lyrics, even including crowdsourced explanations of the lyrics, not a garbage-laden content-stealing malware page.

    5. Re:Not taking down *all* lyrics sites by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      > The fully licensed azlyrics.com will still exist
      And then you will be able to find only the most popular officially approved music lyrics

    6. Re:Not taking down *all* lyrics sites by traycerb · · Score: 1

      I remember using lyrics.ch, and was disappointed to see it go, but the "Undesirable list" pdf makes some reasonable points (even if it wasn't attributed at the top, you can tell it was written by a person, and not some committee). It notes that the fully-licensed azlyrics is in the top 500 of websites, and presumably takes in a proportionate amount of ad revenue, and that "unlike the sound recording business, the lyric business may be more valuable in the Internet age." The interesting thing is VC darling rapgenius (investors including Marc Andreesen) is at the top of the list. I guess $15,000,000 Series A financing didn't leave any money for paying the people it will be profiting from.

      --
      Relax. Have a muffin. Enjoy the show. --Slick, Sept 13th, 2007.
    7. Re:Not taking down *all* lyrics sites by traycerb · · Score: 1

      Poor form to reply to myself, etc, but the person who wrote the paper is David Lowery, frontman for the band Cracker ("Low"), a trained mathematician, and now a lecturer at Univ of Georgia.

      --
      Relax. Have a muffin. Enjoy the show. --Slick, Sept 13th, 2007.
    8. Re:Not taking down *all* lyrics sites by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      No shit, it's especially bad for death/black metal, where the lyrics are especially difficult to understand.
      Since with digital media you no longer get a booklet with all the lyrics when you buy an album, I've been depending on online lyrics to follow the songs.

      I started to realize that a lot of those sites' lyrics were just written by someone listening to the song and writing what they heard. If they didn't understand a section, they'd just write some bullshit that sort of sounds the same, even if it makes no sense.

      Anyway, I'll try azlyrics like the GP suggested. If they're licensed, they might have an official source for their lyrics. From a cursory look, it looks better than most.

  48. Lyrics sites are dumb by LihTox · · Score: 1

    I hate lyrics sites, as they're often not accurate, and the sites themselves are rather skeevy. I really don't understand why bands (or their labels) don't post lyrics to their own sites?
    Or even better, put the lyrics in the MP3 files themselves, when they're sold! iTunes has a spot for lyrics, and it's ridiculous that I have to fill in that box myself, even when I purchase a song from the iTunes store (or anywhere else, for that matter).

  49. Legal Analysis by Warhawke · · Score: 2

    IANAL, but I am familiar with the business. For those of you claiming this is self-destructive, the NMPA as well as individual publishers actually license the lyrics right to certain lyrics websites. The publishers own a valid copyright in the lyrics alone, so legally speaking, republication of the lyrics without copyright license is infringement. Several lyrics websites are officially licensed and sanctioned. I won't name names, but you can usually tell which are licensed and which aren't by the quality and accuracy of the lyrics on the site.

    Usually the publishers steer clear of these sites due to lack of personal jurisdiction, or at best make half-hearted efforts by throwing around a take-down notice here or there. Publishers want to collect money, and they're well aware that going after Lars Lokke Ummerstal in Latvia isn't going to be profitable. However, take-down notices are relatively cheap and easy, and I believe the idea is to stick by principle and crack down on infringing websites in order to have a chilling effect on copyright infringement generally. This is not new, or particularly newsworthy.

    It's also not really all that infuriating, from a copyleft perspective. Because publishers are licensing their copyrights to lyrics and tablature, they aren't strangling the marketplace of ideas. The only real question is whether or not the sites are unfairly targeting websites legitimately engaging in fair use (as opposed to those actually making money off of advertising revenue and merely claiming their use is fair), but, as fair use is an affirmative defense and not a bright line rule, there's no way for a site to prove as a threshold matter that their use is fair.

  50. Can't wait to see their version by Mateo_LeFou · · Score: 1

    "Gather 'round people
    Wherever you roam
    And admit that the waters
    Around you have grown"

    Buy the rest of the lyrics to this song by clicking HERE

    --
    My turnips listen for the soft cry of your love
  51. Cease and desist by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Do you have the right to publish that list?

    If not, take it down NOW!

  52. Where is the legal alternative? by sixsixtysix · · Score: 1

    Where is the legal site that contains lyrics, as not all albums and certainly not mp3s, come with them. This is another case of someone providing a service when there is no legal alternative. Or worse, if there is, its completed fragmented among a bunch of different sites.

    --
    ...
  53. Re:No there isn't. by demachina · · Score: 2, Insightful

    I know its all fashionable to beat on the man, but seriously.

    There might be some companies where CEO's do nothing, and there is certainly a debate worth having on whether many CEO's are paid too much.

    But, the CEO is the person who decides what products the company makes, is responsible for making sure those products are built on time, and sell when they hit the market. They are the people who ultimately insure the company makes its payroll so workers have jobs and get paid. If its a publicly traded company you can add on the massive burdens of answering to regulators, shareholders and the media.

    Most CEO's I've seen work really hard, I doubt I'd want the job. They usually have to travel a lot, they have to sit an insufferable amount of meetings, they carry huge burdens on their shoulders most of the time.

    You seriously need to spend a week BEING a CEO, so we can all see how horrible you would be at it, and then maybe you would stop running your mouth spewing nonsense.

    --
    @de_machina
  54. fuck off. you're a sad sack retard in your basemen by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    your life is nowhere and going down fast and you're whining and shitting over everything to make yourself look like you're no worse a total failure than everyone else.

    PS did I upset you?

    You seem VERY angry.

    Must have hit a nerve.

  55. This sounds right to me by ZJ+AJ · · Score: 1

    Why is everyone so upset? The NMPA is already doing exactly what every Slashdotter would want, which is license multiple websites to provide lyrics for free to everyone who searches for them. They're just ensuring that unlicensed sites either get licensed or disappear so that those that are licensed can fully exploit those licenses.

  56. BUT... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Unfortunately for the NMPA, by accessing the sites, they agreed to the terms and conditions of the site, so the NMPA is obligated.

  57. What's next? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Next thing you know, the music industry will start suing their customers or something.... Where is napster when you need them?

  58. Proof positive : Asspies lack empathy by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    It is now a fact ASSPIES lack empathy and shitdot is full of asspies. You are seeing your own seething hatred towards an honest day's work for an honest day's pay. Rather you take, take, take and give nothing in return. You and your ilk are the lowest of the low and are much like any parasite. Me, I laugh at stupid little fucktarded sheeple like you and capitalism eliminates shitstains like you. Face it, you have accomplished nothing for society and have only accomplished one thing for yourself, leach from others. Oh, your mommy called and she said you need to change your shit-filled underwear, take a bath daily, and know how to use a toilet without making a huge mess for her to fucking clean up, otherwise you will lose your internet privileges. Oh, and if you don't do any of that by next week you will be kicked to the fucking curb and left to fucking die like the worthless piece of shit you are.

    GO AHEAD FUCKING FLAME AWAY
    OR WASTE YOUR GODDAMNED
    MOD POINTS FUCKTARDED SHITDOT SHEEPLE OR BETTER
    YET GO SLIT YOUR FUCKING WRISTS
    FUCKTARDED SHITDOT SHEEPLE

    1. Re:Proof positive : Asspies lack empathy by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Wow, even for a slashdot AC this guys is nuts. Sounds like he is projecting his own inadequacy on the world.

  59. Ah, that's where you're wrong. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    I'm not beating up the man, I'm pointing out how your retarded whine "they're making money off other people's work!" is actually THE ENTIRE BASIS OF CAPITALISM

    Do you know what, canonically, the system that tries to ensure nobody makes money off other people's work is?

    Communism.

    I'm beating up not the man, but your ridiculous statement.

    PS and why is "beating up da man" bad? Are they a class of people who cannot be blamed?

    1. Re:Ah, that's where you're wrong. by khellendros1984 · · Score: 1

      There's a big difference between "You earn me money, and I pay you. Deal?" and "I'm going to sell ad space and use someone else's work to earn myself money without asking them".

      The first is a situation that's often initiated by the one providing the work, for the mutual benefit of the employer and employee. If either finds that it's not to their own benefit, they can end the relationship. The second is a one-sided use of someone else's property for their own gain. I'm not saying that it's necessarily wrong (no harm, no foul), just that it's not the same thing.

      Even "capitalism" is defined as private ownership and production of goods and services. Lyrics sites provide a service, but they don't own the goods that they use to do what they do.

      --
      It is pitch black. You are likely to be eaten by a grue.
  60. rapgenius by TangoMargarine · · Score: 1

    ...and nothing of value was lost :)

    --
    Unity? Screw that: XFCE. Slashdot Beta? Screw that: SoylentNews. Australis? Screw that: Pale Moon. UX developers DIAF
  61. Re:No there isn't. by dyingtolive · · Score: 5, Funny

    You seriously need to spend a week BEING a CEO, so we can all see how horrible you would be at it, and then maybe you would stop running your mouth spewing nonsense.

    Deal. Now Freaky Friday this shit so that I can get on with destroying a company that's existed for over a generation. Man, I'm gonna short term flip that Fortune 500 so hard they're feeling it for five CEOs after, which, I know is only like, two years time, but still.

    Hurry up, I want to finish in time for the coke and hooker parties.

    --
    Support the EFF and Creative Commons. The war is coming, and they're supporting you...
  62. Why can't the recording industry see? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Everyone I know steals music and the record industry hasn't lost a dime because everyone I know is poor. If they couldn't steal the music they wouldn't go out and buy thousands of CDs they'd just listen to the radio or buy one great CD and listen to it over and over for years.

    I understand all they care about is the money (completely understandable for corporations), but they aren't actually losing any, so...what the f**k?

  63. Easier to break than to build by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    We see with Obamacare what monoliths create when they try software engineering. Who here thinks the record industry could create ANY decent lyric sites themselves? And who is stupid enough to think such sites could EVER earn enough to offset their costs?

    So, the free market does what it always does, and innovates new services- including these 'unauthorised' lyric sites. They 'cost' the music business LESS than nothing, since as I said, if such resources were provided by the music biz itself, they would generate a net loss. But what do they GIVE to the music biz?

    -A MASSIVE increase in the interest mechanisms available to users (find and explore music by lyric)
    -A MASSIVE resource for those that make music, or who are considering the same
    -A MASSIVE addition to the profile of popular music

    But you need a few functioning brain-cells to see the advantage of people working for FREE to promote/expand your business. Meanwhile, the filthy parasites we call LAWYERS make zero money from telling companies that free promotion is a GOOD thing. On the other hand, these parasites make EXCELLENT money using legal powers to destroy targets- regardless of WHY these targets are being destroyed.

    So, the filthy parasite lawyers, and the 'researchers' they employ at universities, whisper their 'great plans' in the ears of the coke-fuelled owners of record labels, and operation "cut off your nose to pay for a lawyer's third home" begins.

  64. They'd have zero costs too. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Or they'd have other stuff up there and make money from that.

    So you're fucking wrong.

    1. Re:They'd have zero costs too. by NatasRevol · · Score: 1

      And that 'other stuff' would still be someone else's work.

      --
      There are two types of people in the world: Those who crave closure
  65. Re:No there isn't. by Princeofcups · · Score: 1

    But, the CEO is the person who decides what products the company makes, is responsible for making sure those products are built on time, and sell when they hit the market.

    That describes no CEO I've ever met. They manipulate board meetings, decide how far they can go outside of the law without getting caught, make insider deals that serve their own interests at the expense of the workers, manipulate financial data to increase their bonuses, make big business deals of buying and selling subsidiaries in order to make the greatest profit for their buddies, and generally leave the running of the actual company to underlings.

    --
    The only thing worse than a Democrat is a Republican.
  66. Re:No there isn't. by NoImNotNineVolt · · Score: 1

    But, the CEO is the person who decides what products the company makes

    engineers, designers, upper management

    is responsible for making sure those products are built on time

    middle management

    and sell when they hit the market.

    sales

    They are the people who ultimately insure the company makes its payroll so workers have jobs and get paid.

    accounting, payroll, human resources

    If its a publicly traded company you can add on the massive burdens of answering to regulators

    legal

    shareholders

    board of directors

    and the media.

    public relations, advertising

    So... the CEO does nothing.

    --
    Chuuch. Preach. Tabernacle.
  67. name that tune! by almechist · · Score: 1

    The lyrics sites in question have already consulted with their lawyers, and released the following statement which clarifies their positions on the issue:

    Fuck you, I won't do what you tell me Fuck you, I won't do what you tell me Fuck you, I won't do what you tell me Fuck you, I won't do what you tell me Fuck you, I won't do what you tell me Fuck you, I won't do what you tell me Fuck you, I won't do what you tell me Fuck you, I won't do what you tell me Fuck you, I won't do what you tell me! Fuck you, I won't do what you tell me! Fuck you, I won't do what you tell me! Fuck you, I won't do what you tell me! Fuck you, I won't do what you tell me! Fuck you, I won't do what you tell me! Fuck you, I won't do what you tell me! Fuck you, I won't do what you tell me! Motherfucker!

    (fuck you slashdot junk text filter)

    Oh man, dude, that's utter genius! Now what song are those the lyrics to, again?

    1. Re:name that tune! by gmhowell · · Score: 1

      The lyrics sites in question have already consulted with their lawyers, and released the following statement which clarifies their positions on the issue:

      Fuck you, I won't do what you tell me
      Fuck you, I won't do what you tell me
      Fuck you, I won't do what you tell me
      Fuck you, I won't do what you tell me
      Fuck you, I won't do what you tell me
      Fuck you, I won't do what you tell me
      Fuck you, I won't do what you tell me
      Fuck you, I won't do what you tell me
      Fuck you, I won't do what you tell me!
      Fuck you, I won't do what you tell me!
      Fuck you, I won't do what you tell me!
      Fuck you, I won't do what you tell me!
      Fuck you, I won't do what you tell me!
      Fuck you, I won't do what you tell me!
      Fuck you, I won't do what you tell me!
      Fuck you, I won't do what you tell me!
      Motherfucker!

      (fuck you slashdot junk text filter)

      Oh man, dude, that's utter genius! Now what song are those the lyrics to, again?

      Vera Lynn.

      --
      Jesus was all right but his disciples were thick and ordinary. -John Lennon
  68. Re:No there isn't. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    The benefit of doing that is you will have gotten that oh-so-sweet CEO experience and will have no shortage of companies willing to pay you millions to come wreck their company!

  69. Re:No there isn't. by Petfish · · Score: 0

    CEOs sack people mostly, before taking the golden parachute and leaving, typically to rinse and repeat.

  70. There's a bathroom on the right... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Yep, "There's a bathroom on the right". Its a song by the creedence Clearwater revibal (or something like that). Its like that other singer, Olivia Neutron Bomb, or this song , which made some people really mad, because after hearing it, they couldn't help but laugh, and then every time they heard the song again, couldn't think about the (official) lyrics, but only the new lyrics *DAMMIT, FUNNY STINKING LYRICS!* And now even a site that posts something orthogonal to the music like the lyrics is getting the bitchslap by the dying music industry. IMHO, if this is their biggest worry, then they really need to die.

  71. They MAY not be licensed? by the_arrow · · Score: 1

    What really got me was the word "may". So they simply start sending out threats left and right without even bothering to even check if there's any base to the accusations? If a site they threaten is actually licensed, will the organization issue an equally public apology? I don't think so.

    And that, dear folks, is the "entertainment industry" for you!

    --
    / The Arrow
    "How lovely you are. So lovely in my straightjacket..." - Nny
  72. Anyone remember lyrics.ch? by Kirth · · Score: 1

    Oh yeah. I was system administrator of its ISP at that time.

    --
    "The more prohibitions there are, The poorer the people will be" -- Lao Tse
  73. Now here is what they need to do by Nov8tr · · Score: 1

    OK are these guys insane? Why don't they just have all the musicians arrested so they can't write music that people will download. And how about going to kindergarten and getting all those lawbreaking students humming songs they heard on the radio? Oh oh oh, wait they need to get those radio stations that are playing those songs too. And Walmart, Target, K-Mart, etc need some take down notices for selling that music. I'm sure if they all come together and try really hard they will be able to single handed destroy the music industry for many, many years to come. Hell it could take centuries before anyone would even consider writing a song.

    --
    I'm old, not dead. Well that's my 2 cents worth, your mileage may vary. I say what I think, not what you want to hear.