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Music Industry Issues Take Down Notices to 50 Major Lyrics Sites

alphadogg writes "A music industry group is warning some 50 website that post song lyrics that they need to be licensed or face the music, possibly in the form of a lawsuit. The National Music Publishers Association said Monday that it sent take-down notices to what it claims are 50 websites that post lyrics to songs and generate ad revenue but may not be licensed to do so. The allegedly infringing sites were identified based on a complicated algorithm developed by a researcher at the University of Georgia." The "complicated algorithm" (basis statistics using Excel and Google) is described in the NMPA's "Undesirable Lyric Website List." Anyone remember lyrics.ch?

18 of 281 comments (clear)

  1. Greed! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Insightful

    Pure and simple.

    1. Re:Greed! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Insightful

      Yes, but this case - on the part of the websites attempting to generate ad revenue. I don't see a problem with them preventing folk making money from other peoples copyrighted works.

    2. Re:Greed! by Barefoot+Monkey · · Score: 5, Insightful

      Why don't the copyright-holders publish lyrics for everything on the web themselves? Then they'd kill demand for other lyrics sites and get ad revenues.

    3. Re:Greed! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Insightful

      So is the music industry offering a better alternative? Clearly some people want the lyrics. As usual, the "industry" ignores a demand and instead turns to lawsuits.

    4. Re:Greed! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Insightful

      "It does stop them from making money."

      No it doesn't.

      "They are not able to sell the lyrics now even if they want to"

      They never wanted to.

      "Love it or hate it, the take-downs are the right thing."

      No, they're wrong.

      The leeches are those who stole from the public and got copyrights extended and gave nothing back for it.

    5. Re:Greed! by david_thornley · · Score: 3, Insightful

      I make money by pushing bits around; specifically, I write and maintain software for my company. The company has a general idea of what value I create, and pays me based on that. Sometimes I do better than they plan on and sometimes worse. It's a pretty sweet deal, but it doesn't transfer well to artistic endeavors.

      Suppose I were able to write publishable-quality fiction. Suppose I then wanted to write a novel on speculation. How am I supposed to make money on it? I've written it, so under a no-copyright regime I can either sit on it, which does nobody any good, or release it freely, in which case I get no money for my work. Suppose I want to write another novel, despite not getting paid for the first. I have to go around fundraising as well as writing. People have to decide that they're willing to give me money, despite me not having much of a track record. And, of course, if I raise enough money (conditional on releasing the novel, I assume), that's an absolute upper limit on what I can make. It seems to me that I can put a heck of a lot of work in on fiction before I can start getting significant money from it.

      In the current world, with copyright, I can write on spec, and if I can talk somebody into publishing it I can get financial rewards from it. They may not be much, but they can continue. I can strike it rich if I write something that really catches on. In the meantime, readers can decide if they want to pay me for my novel on a case-by-case basis. They don't have to commit to paying me sight unseen. If they come along and decide they like my work, they can reward me for the stuff I've already published. Under which regime can we expect more good fiction?

      The difference is that your software is relatively easy to agree on a price for. You agree to provide good-quality software that does something specific. This is worth a good sum of money to somebody who pays you. Fine. A novel is not written for a particular need (aside from series and romance novels), and there is usually no one person who values the novel so highly as to pay what the author needs for a decent living. If some organization would guarantee a base amount of money for an original novel, there's be at least some reward for writing one, and we'd be paying endless amounts of money for crap.

      And don't give me the line about how people will create because it's fun. Creating something is fun. Making it into a polished and entertaining product involves a lot of drudge work that nobody's going to do without being paid for it. Without copyright, people would still play the guitar and sing and tell stories, but that's where it stops.

      --
      "When you have eliminated the unacceptable, whatever is left, however improbable, must be the truthiness" - Holmes
    6. Re: Greed! by WillKemp · · Score: 5, Insightful

      Well we all know how much lyrics sites lead to a loss in sales for these companies.

      Quite the opposite, i'd say. I've often heard a song i liked on the radio, but not known what it was called or who it was by, and then googled bits of lyrics to find out so i could buy it. And i'm sure i'm not the only person who does that. The Google search inevitably takes me to one of those lyrics sites. If they weren't there, chances are i wouldn't have bought the song.

      They're just shooting themselves in the foot as usual, with their mindless short sighted approach.

  2. Suicide? by AmiMoJo · · Score: 5, Insightful

    Are they trying to destroy their business? That's the only reason I can think of for making it harder for people interested in their product to get information about it.

    --
    const int one = 65536; (Silvermoon, Texture.cs)
    SJW, n: "Someone I don't like, and by the way I'm a fuckwit" - AC
    1. Re:Suicide? by AmiMoJo · · Score: 4, Insightful

      It must be pretty galling being a record label. You know you are shit, and have failed to set up any kind of online music service to rival Amazon, iTunes, Spotify and the rest. YouTube shit on your music video sites from a great height. Yet, you will never give up fighting your friends, because anything less than 100% of the market is unacceptable.

      --
      const int one = 65536; (Silvermoon, Texture.cs)
      SJW, n: "Someone I don't like, and by the way I'm a fuckwit" - AC
    2. Re:Suicide? by JWW · · Score: 3, Insightful

      I really like your points.

      But for the RIAA to do that they'd have to actually care about music artists.

  3. I never understood the vendetta against lyrics by sandytaru · · Score: 4, Insightful

    It's not like they're posting the sheet music or the guitar chords, let alone any kind of recording. If you don't already know the tune, the lyrics aren't going to help you understand the actual music. And since singers are so mush-mouthed these days, you need the lyrics to avoid accidentally creating new mondegreens.

    Does iTunes even include the lyrics when you buy a song?

    --
    Occasionally living proof of the Ballmer peak.
    1. Re:I never understood the vendetta against lyrics by Xest · · Score: 5, Insightful

      Also I've known lyrics to a song before but not the name. Being able to search the internet based on lyrics is what has allowed me to find a song I was after.

      Reducing access to lyrics is reducing people's ability to find the name of a product they wish to buy.

  4. The "Music Industry" is just a bunch of lawyers by Andover+Chick · · Score: 3, Insightful

    It is such a sham they even call it the "music industry". The amount of assets in the form of recording studios and distribution is relatively quite small. What's big is the number of office buildings housing lawyers. If you ever drive around the West Hollywood or Beverley Hills area you'll see big office buildings full of lawyers. That's what the "industry" is...

  5. I'll tell you why by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Insightful

    That would be making money off their own work. And they don't have to: copyrights will bring in money without any further work from them and they're not in the business of doing work. Just getting paid.

    Moreover, the entire bloody thing is run by accountants now. And to an accountant, EVERY sum is zero-sum. Double entry bookkeeping. Look it up. True fact.

    So if someone else is making money, that's not "them making money", that's MONEY LOST TO YOU. ***EVEN THOUGH*** you are not going to do that work to get the money EVER.

    Moreover, the ROI is very low and the work high, and that's just too much like hard work.

    So, rather than do all that work and maybe make a tiny bit of money, they whine and bitch and insist that nobody can make money off "their work" (whilst completely ignoring the money they made off the work of their teacher teaching them their craft. Scrounging bastards").

  6. Cutting off your nose to spite your face by korbulon · · Score: 4, Insightful

    That's what this amounts to. And lost revenue. I've lost count of the number of times where I've been out in public and overheard pieces of a song I liked and committed key phrases to memory to google later. Never fails to find the song. (And frankly, sometimes the results are embarrassing. I like that shit?!)

  7. Re:Why? by jythie · · Score: 3, Insightful

    In all of those other cases there is some type of exchange going on. The issue here is that you have group A producing content and then group B taking that content without compensating A and then using it as the basis for making money. It can be argued (pretty easily) that the lyric generators are adding value in the process, and thus there is an exchange going on between consumer and aggregator (via advertiser), but the relationship between producer and aggregator is completely one way.

    While I think the music industry is being a jackass and this will do nothing positive for them, legally and even ethically I can see their point.

  8. Re:Silly, but it is their right... by pantaril · · Score: 4, Insightful

    Silly, but it is their right... They own the copyright and that's that.

    It's silly so the law shoud be changed. Nobody shoud have right to restrict sharing of public knowledge/culture/ideas.

  9. Re:No there isn't. by demachina · · Score: 2, Insightful

    I know its all fashionable to beat on the man, but seriously.

    There might be some companies where CEO's do nothing, and there is certainly a debate worth having on whether many CEO's are paid too much.

    But, the CEO is the person who decides what products the company makes, is responsible for making sure those products are built on time, and sell when they hit the market. They are the people who ultimately insure the company makes its payroll so workers have jobs and get paid. If its a publicly traded company you can add on the massive burdens of answering to regulators, shareholders and the media.

    Most CEO's I've seen work really hard, I doubt I'd want the job. They usually have to travel a lot, they have to sit an insufferable amount of meetings, they carry huge burdens on their shoulders most of the time.

    You seriously need to spend a week BEING a CEO, so we can all see how horrible you would be at it, and then maybe you would stop running your mouth spewing nonsense.

    --
    @de_machina