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US Intelligence Wants To Radically Advance Facial Recognition Software

coondoggie writes "Identifying people from video streams or boatloads of images can be a daunting task for humans and computers. But a 4-year development program set to start in April 2014 known as Janus aims to develop software and algorithms that erase those problems and could radically alter the facial recognition world as we know it. Funded by the Office of the Director of National Intelligence's 'high-risk, high-payoff research' group, Intelligence Advanced Research Projects Activity (IARPA) Janus 'seeks to improve face recognition performance using representations developed from real-world video and images instead of from calibrated and constrained collections.'"

178 comments

  1. It's like by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Insightful

    absolutely nothing happened these past five months.

    1. Re:It's like by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      absolutely nothing happened these past five months.

      It's like absolutely no one can figure out how the hell we got here.

      Or perhaps the more logical conclusion (assuming at least half a brain exists) is that no one actually gives a shit.

      Either way, I would agree that it's the largest elephant I've ever seen ignored in the house we all live in.

      (Then again, if all you possess is a rusty spoon and a wet napkin to try and lure an elephant out of your house, you know you're pretty much fucked anyway.)

    2. Re:It's like by SomeoneFromBelgium · · Score: 2

      ...that situation when you shake hands with that guy from sales ... what's his name... well some face recognition sofware in my google glass that would wisper his name as a kind of soufleur could really come in handy.

    3. Re:It's like by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 3, Insightful

      Or perhaps the more logical conclusion (assuming at least half a brain exists) is that no one actually gives a shit.

      Everyone's still getting paid and laid, so no, no one gives a shit. Anyone who isn't getting paid or laid is a terrorist.

    4. Re:It's like by FlyHelicopters · · Score: 4, Insightful
      Nothing much did happen, other than a minor government holiday, Obamacare launched to a mess...

      oh yea...

      Snowden told us all something that we already knew, so nothing changed there.

      Those of us who care, already knew. Those who didn't know, didn't care, or didn't want to know, or are too busy watching American Idol or Honey Boo Boo or whatever.

    5. Re:It's like by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Unfortunately, that no longer seems to be true.

    6. Re:It's like by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      Nothing DID happen as far as the spies are concerned. Sure, there was some hubbub about how they're using their toys; but the toy buying budget has not been cut, so it's the right moment to buy more toys. Especially as Christmas is coming up.

    7. Re:It's like by duke_cheetah2003 · · Score: 5, Insightful

      Snowden told us all something that we already knew, so nothing changed there.

      Just to be clear, Snowden told us something we all suspected, perhaps even strongly suspected as in almost accepted truth. But Snowden revealed these things we suspected. Concrete and clear, no doubts left.

    8. Re:It's like by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      absolutely nothing happened these past five months.

      So what are you going to do about it? Nothing. You are just going to sit on your comfy chair and bitch about it on internet blogs. This is why nobody cares what you think.

    9. Re:It's like by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Snowden told us all something that we already knew, so nothing changed there.

      Just to be clear, Snowden told us something we all suspected, perhaps even strongly suspected as in almost accepted truth. But Snowden revealed these things we suspected. Concrete and clear, no doubts left.

      Snowden told _all_ something _some_of_us_ suspected (with high probability). Before, mass surveillance was topic of only few and masses were ignoring us or calling us nuts. Now, masses are aware.

    10. Re:It's like by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I'd rather just tell him I forgot his name and ask him for it again. If he is a sane person, he will tell me and we can continue. Stop treating everyone as if they are a delicate flower and stop pretending to be more concerned in them than you really are.

    11. Re:It's like by g0bshiTe · · Score: 2

      Until someone who just happened to glance as you shook whats his names hand and you got flagged as a potential terrorist for having shook his hand as he was on some watch list.

      --
      I am Bennett Haselton! I am Bennett Haselton!
    12. Re:It's like by g0bshiTe · · Score: 2

      And yet still don't care.

      How does that happen?

      --
      I am Bennett Haselton! I am Bennett Haselton!
    13. Re:It's like by kilfarsnar · · Score: 2

      Nothing much did happen, other than a minor government holiday, Obamacare launched to a mess...

      oh yea...

      Snowden told us all something that we already knew, so nothing changed there.

      Those of us who care, already knew. Those who didn't know, didn't care, or didn't want to know, or are too busy watching American Idol or Honey Boo Boo or whatever.

      When I used to suggest that we were all being spied on, I was called paranoid or a conspiracy theorist. Nowadays I'm not. So that's changed, and frankly I appreciate it.

      --
      "What the American public doesn't know is what makes them the American public." -Ray Zalinsky (Tommy Boy)
    14. Re:It's like by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Interesting

      Hey, who are those thugs on those motorcycles over there that just pulled up to the playground?
      Nevermind, just ignore them and hope that they go away or don't bother us.
      I'm still having fun building this sand castle.
      Hey, they started taking pictures.
      Don't look at them and maybe they will go away.
      Besides, they haven't beat anyone up yet.

    15. Re:It's like by MrKaos · · Score: 4, Insightful

      absolutely nothing happened these past five months.

      For those who cared about western society it proves is freedom is an illusion and democracy is a lie because when we gave up on diplomacy and waterboarded the first insurgent it proved our ideals weren't as strong as our military. This justifies the transition from covert to overt intelligence.

      That's the nature of a Police State who has nothing to fear from the people.

      --
      My ism, it's full of beliefs.
    16. Re:It's like by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Until someone who just happened to glance as you shook whats his names hand and you got flagged as a potential terrorist for having shook his hand as he was on some watch list.

      That's more a problem with the watchlist than the facial recognition technology.

      Note that the same thing could happen with a large quantity of humans sitting in for the software (and it probably does happen in cases where the perceived value is high enough to warrant the cost).

      It's generally better to attack the root of the problem (the police state mentality and the failure of the checks and balances designed to prevent it) than it is to attack the new technology that is not in itself the problem.

    17. Re:It's like by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      And yet still don't care.

      How does that happen?

      If we didn't care when we strongly suspected but lacked concrete proof (as evidence by no effort being put into finding proof) why would you expect us to suddenly care when proof were provided?

    18. Re:It's like by Jane+Q.+Public · · Score: 1

      Is it time to pull out the Guy Fawkes masks yet?

    19. Re:It's like by triffid_98 · · Score: 1

      Is it time to pull out the Guy Fawkes masks yet?

      Sure have at it. The thing is though, even our old facial recognition system flags those people as terrorists so....

    20. Re:It's like by Jane+Q.+Public · · Score: 1

      Sure have at it. The thing is though, even our old facial recognition system flags those people as terrorists so....

      Doesn't matter. They can't take action on it. And if everybody (or a lot of people anyway) did it, it would matter even less.

    21. Re:It's like by FlyHelicopters · · Score: 1
      They don't care because so many people are shortsighted and only worried about paying next month's rent bill.

      In fairness, that is a fair concern, long term concerns often are pushed aside for short term needs.

      I've had this conversation with my wife many times. She is a smart, educated professional who has a good grasp of complex topics. Her reply to the whole NSA thing?

      "Well, I hope they at least catch the bad people with it, there isn't anything I can do about it."

      I suspect many people have a general uneasy feeling over it, but they aren't prepared to leave their jobs and start protesting 24/7 over it.

    22. Re:It's like by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      when we gave up on diplomacy and waterboarded the first insurgent

      So... during the Vietnam War?

    23. Re:It's like by ahabswhale · · Score: 1

      Bill Binney pretty much let the cat out of the bag long before Snowden. It's just that he didn't leak documents so he got no press. Additionally, ECHELON hasn't been a secret for a long time. I find it humorous that anyone thought that somehow the internet was excluded, like it's some magical space where privacy is guaranteed. There's a lot of naivete out there.

      --
      Are agnostics skeptical of unicorns too?
  2. Not enough in the air? by 0dugo0 · · Score: 1

    What!? They were not using TV channels for development all this time?

    1. Re:Not enough in the air? by libtek · · Score: 1

      "The V-Chip gives them sight" ~S.O.A.D., Spiders. Am I the only one that didn't know that the "Office of the Director of National Intelligence" even existed? I guess I know what I'll be reading up on tonite...

      --
      Unequivocally the realest of the realz...
    2. Re:Not enough in the air? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0, Offtopic

      The faces on TV look all alike and nothing like anybody would go out on the street with. I'd add "particularly terrorists" but it has become increasingly clear that the NSA is not wasting all its resources just by keeping tabs on their purported targets. Heck, they are so busy jacking off to everybody that they can't bother following multiple explicit leads handed on a silver platter to them (Boston marathon anybody?).

      They are not interested in the needles. They want the haystacks.

      At any rate: the usual surveillance camera and its clientele presents quite a different job than a soap opera. Heck, most people would not recognize celebrity in street attire.

    3. Re:Not enough in the air? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      That sounds like a perfect research material. If the system can recognize people who were masked by professionals they can surely recognize terrorists with fake moustache :D

  3. THEY WANT TO DO WHAT?! by Gravis+Zero · · Score: 1

    is anyone else so incredibly surprised by this as i am? -_-

    article modded down "DUH!"

    --
    Anons need not reply. Questions end with a question mark.
    1. Re:THEY WANT TO DO WHAT?! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Mod parent duh. (/me came here to see no surprises comment, and was not disappointed)

  4. In other news... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Insightful

    The sale of masks, hoodies and other feature obscuring items rose 1000%.

    US Gov seeks to introduce a ban on all such items ASAP.
    A spokesperson said basically, 'Think of all the children that can be saved from nasty people who hide their faces and scare the poor dears'.

    A Patriot Act order closing to a website that identified the exact location of every facial recognition camera in the country was issued today

    The Terrorist group 'Anonymous' started attacking the cameras themselves causing every picture that they sent to be changed into members of Congress, the house and senior Whitehouse staffers.

    And so the war on freedom continues.
    Is that a SWAT team I hear pulling up outside? Time to go...

    1. Re:In other news... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Funny

      Good reason to adopt the Muslim religion... You get to wear a burka!

    2. Re:In other news... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      The sale of masks, hoodies and other feature obscuring items rose 1000%.

      And those will be the things that the face recognition software recognizes with enough accuracy to tase you.

    3. Re:In other news... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      Finally, a reason to cross dress!

    4. Re:In other news... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Good reason to adopt the Muslim religion... You get to wear a burka!

      Shhh! Don't reveal the master plan too soon the Infidels might still turn this around.

    5. Re:In other news... by LoRdTAW · · Score: 1

      Sadly, ani-mask laws will promptly stop this. I don't have too much time to dig up the laws but here are some articles:

      Small Wikipedia article on the subject. Doesn't explain much but does have a few citation links. Canada along with the USA have such laws.
      http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anti-mask_laws

      The NYPD then used it against Occupy protesters:
      http://gothamist.com/2011/09/19/nypd_uses_law_from_1845_to_arrest_m.php#photo-1

      France also has similar laws:
      http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/French_ban_on_face_covering

      I would imagine other countries might have similar laws.

  5. Yay progress. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0, Flamebait

    Can't wait to live in a dystopia.

  6. Looking to the future of Fffacebook by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    NSA know they can't rely on Fffacebook fffan crowd-sourcing to do the identification of people in images for ever. Always looking to the future.

    In the meantime they're testing a new scam through Stanford - worried about what metadata reveals? - give your Fffacebook and phone records to Stanford and they'll prove it's a dumb move. Yes really!

  7. And in other news... by daitengu · · Score: 1

    Water is wet and the sky is blue.

    1. Re:And in other news... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      dehydrated water isn't wet.

    2. Re: And in other news... by tysonedwards · · Score: 3, Informative

      Dehydrated water isn't anything.

      --
      Thirty four characters live here.
    3. Re:And in other news... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Breaking news... Oranges are used to make orange juice.

    4. Re: And in other news... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      So you are telling me that guy that sold me dehydrated water was lying?

      I mean, how can it be a lie, it is powdered water that just needs more water to become liquid, how can you lie about a thing like that?
      It is genius if you ask me. It should be on TV.

    5. Re:And in other news... by KlomDark · · Score: 1

      That's just what they want you to believe...

  8. As expected by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Now that the NSA has all that data it makes sense to want to use it better. Having better facials recognition seems like a great idea, you'll have less false positives and faster finding of criminals.

    The problem is that they have tons of data they should not have and i'ts not even usefull. The way it's most likely to be used is when something bad happens they can profile everyone and with enough data there is always someone who has behaved suspicious in some way, even though they had nothing to do with it. Guilty until proven innocent.

    1. Re:As expected by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Having better facials recognition seems like a great idea

      The technology may be impressive, but the government must be stopped from using it to further violate people's privacy.

      and i'ts not even usefull.

      The ability to harass practically anyone will likely prove quite useful to the government.

    2. Re:As expected by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Interesting

      and i'ts not even usefull.

      The ability to harass practically anyone will likely prove quite useful to the government.

      Wow. And here I thought they had enough shit online tracking us today, along with the manipulative control to harass citizens (you won a free tax audit based on your party affiliation!) at the Federal level. What the hell was I thinking. Clearly the NSA budget is lacking. Yes, we need more of that. I'm sure that's the answer.

      What's that? The average citizen unknowingly commits three felonies a day you say? And the government wants even more visibility into that? What could possibly go wrong?

    3. Re:As expected by gl4ss · · Score: 1

      nsa isn't supposed to be finding common criminals.

      they aren't doing that anyhow, except on random personal basis.

      --
      world was created 5 seconds before this post as it is.
    4. Re:As expected by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      nsa isn't supposed to be finding common criminals.

      they aren't doing that anyhow, except on random personal basis.

      And they aren't interested in finding terrorists (they got lots of leads far more explicit than their own intelligence for the Boston bombers and for 9/11 but were not interested in following up until after the fact).

      They are out for securing their jobs. Curbing actual terrorism would be bad for that. It's more important to collect little dirt on senators, and little dirt on small fry and basically everyone that can be used for placating prosecutors and police by distributing selected scraps that they become fond of since it's good for their career.

    5. Re:As expected by g0bshiTe · · Score: 1

      I change whatever website I'm on when I want to see better facials.

      --
      I am Bennett Haselton! I am Bennett Haselton!
    6. Re:As expected by mcgrew · · Score: 1

      The average citizen unknowingly commits three felonies a day you say?

      Normally I'd say [citation needed] but I did once when someone (probably the same goober) made that assertion and he pointed to a web page of people who were arrested for such things as importing stuff without paying duties, importing illegal shit like ivory, etc. NOT anything the average American could be charged with, and all of them laws that make sense (like ivory).

      So instead I'll just say, what three felonies could I have committed today? Jaywalking and spitting on the sidewalk don't count, they're not even misdemeanors, let alone felonies.

  9. Not much need to worry by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Interesting

    I've worked with current facial recognition systems and they're absolutely junk. They can match mug shots with perfect lighting but that's about all. It's a very long way to being able to pick people out of some crappy live video stream.
    Mind, I worked with whatever's publicly available; maybe the various big brother agencies have better stuff; i wouldn't bet on it though.

    1. Re:Not much need to worry by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 4, Interesting

      Every picture on Facebook is scanned by Interpol by facial recognition software. Yes even the guy in the background that didn't know you took the picture. Interpol you say? Yep, that's why this whole fake outrage over the NSA is all bunk. They all work together, and have been for decades, spying on each other then sharing the information to bypass privacy laws in each country.

    2. Re:Not much need to worry by sifi · · Score: 4, Interesting

      Absolutely true. Even when they are 'accurate' they are of limited usefulness.

      Assume that it's 99.9% accurate for a given success rate (wildly optimistic) That is for every 1000 faces you show it 1 is incorrectly flagged as matching.

      Suppose that you have a list of 100 people you are 'interested' in. If the system is in an airport with 200,000 people per day - you are going to get 20,000 incorrect matches a day.

      --
      Sig (appended to the end of comments you post, 120 chars)
    3. Re:Not much need to worry by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      This is the Paradox of the False Positive. See http://thewhereblog.blogspot.com/2008/12/paradox-of-false-positive.html
      Millions of dollars will be spent on this and innocent lives will be ruined.

    4. Re:Not much need to worry by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      Erm, wow! /.er's can't even do basic maths now!?

      99.9% of 200,000 is 200 NOT 20,000...

      wow, I'm officially amazed, especially given the current +4 Interesting mod.

      People wonder why we went AC.

    5. Re:Not much need to worry by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      But when you have many cameras, you can match many times from different angles and in different lighting conditions. Suppose failure rates primarily depend on the angle/lighting (big but somewhat plausible assumption). You can then attempt a match and only alert when at least 3 cameras give a match, for a 1 in 1000000000 failure rate, which would be considered acceptable by most reasonable people.

    6. Re:Not much need to worry by InsightfulPlusTwo · · Score: 2

      Your math appears to be correct for one camera. But what if the cameras are everywhere, and the same people are passing in front of the cameras, and they correlate the results? They can increase their certainty and filter out many of the false positives. In addition, for airports, since they have a known list of travelers, they can use this information to reduce the false positives still more. Finally, they can introduce secondary technology such as a 3-D body scan like a Kinect to reduce error still more. With multiple sources of information and technologies, the system becomes viable.

      --
      I felt bad for the man who had no signature, until I met a man who had no comment.
    7. Re:Not much need to worry by djmurdoch · · Score: 3, Insightful

      That's 200 false matches to each of the 100 targets. 200*100 = 20000.

    8. Re:Not much need to worry by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Did you try reading his post? Maybe you should, because then you wouldn't make yourself look like such a moron.

    9. Re:Not much need to worry by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      You went AC so people couldn't call you on it when you make hilarious gaffs like this.

    10. Re:Not much need to worry by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      No citation + modded up = Idiots with mod points.

    11. Re:Not much need to worry by Znork · · Score: 3, Insightful

      With multiple sources of information and technologies, the system becomes lucrative.

      You will, however, get even more false positives. Which doesn't matter as long as the account balance for the scammers selling useless junk to gullible officials gets real positive.

    12. Re:Not much need to worry by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I read it as for each 1000 people 999 were correctly identified for who they were, 1 person was Identified as someone they weren't.

      Not, for each 1000 people 999 were correctly identified as being part of a group of 100 or not.

      Why the assumption the software wouldn't know everyone (with a passports) face?

    13. Re:Not much need to worry by djmurdoch · · Score: 1

      You (and one of the ACs) are making the assumption that the cameras make errors independently. But the cameras don't make the decision, the central server does. There's only one of those, and if the data it has on a target happens to look like a different person, it will flag the data from all of the cameras in the same way. The fact that they all agree doesn't reduce that component of the 0.1% error rate.

    14. Re:Not much need to worry by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      I dunno man, the facial recognition in Picasa was actually fairly decent.

      I'm not even going to lie, but generally I like to take pictures of the female form as they perform acts on camera for financial support, and generally even between various different poses, angles, lighting, camera quality, make-up, their system can find matches between those faces pretty god damn accurately. Dangerously good at it. It is scary.

      Shame Picasa sucks now and corrupts its own database so much. What is this, the 90s? Fix that shit Google, corruptible databases is horrible-programmer tier levels of bad.

    15. Re:Not much need to worry by AmiMoJo · · Score: 1

      They will simply fix the problems you and the GP mention.

      Lighting? When you fly in to Japan they take a photo of your face in a well lit area, while at the same time taking your fingerprints. Expect airports to become very well lit in general.

      False positives? Maybe for individual matches, but they will be making multiple match attempts against images of the same person captured multiple times from different angles by different cameras.

      The government can change the rules of the game whenever it likes.

      --
      const int one = 65536; (Silvermoon, Texture.cs)
      SJW, n: "Someone I don't like, and by the way I'm a fuckwit" - AC
    16. Re:Not much need to worry by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      200,000 people total

      180,000 identified

      20,000 not identified

      or 9 to 1 chance of being idenified.

      So for 100 people of interest 88.9 are picked up.

    17. Re:Not much need to worry by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      99.9% of 200,000 is 200 NOT 20,000...

      Erm, no... 99.9% of 200,000 is actually 199,800 NOT 200.

    18. Re:Not much need to worry by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Gratuitous [citation need] whine + AC x (mom's basement-bath) = Troll

    19. Re:Not much need to worry by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      More like for every 1000 people who aren't one of the targets, you get a false positive suggesting that one of them is. I.e., 999/1000 are correctly identified as NOT being part of the group, and one poor schmuck who looks (to the software, at least) like one of the group of 100.

      That doesn't necessarily mean the software has correctly ID'd the other 999, just that it's determined that they aren't the droids, er, terrorists they're looking for.

    20. Re:Not much need to worry by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Gratuitous [citation need] whine + AC x (mom's basement-bath) = Troll

      That's rich coming from another AC.

      Go troll somewhere else.

    21. Re:Not much need to worry by InsightfulPlusTwo · · Score: 1

      That's a sensible counterargument, which seems true unless the camera depends on catching them at a good angle, in which case multiple camera perspectives would provide some additional error reduction.

      --
      I felt bad for the man who had no signature, until I met a man who had no comment.
    22. Re:Not much need to worry by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Considering DNA testing, with a false positive count around 1 in 8000, is considered irrefutable evidence worthy of putting away someone for life, I expect that 1 in 1000 number to be buried, downplayed, or outright ignored. They will use it. They will say false positives don't exist. Judges will instruct juries as such and the people will eat it up because "thats how it woks on $copdrama".

      Just because is is not accurate does not mean it is of limited usefulness to the justice department.

    23. Re:Not much need to worry by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      So then you'll understand the value that the social networking data brings to face recognition?

    24. Re:Not much need to worry by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Gratuitous [citation need] whine + AC x (mom's basement-bath) = Troll

      Gratuitous? I Do Not Think It Means What You Think It Means

      AC x? what the fuck is that?

      Mom's basement-bath? again what the fuck? Our basements don't have baths, you'll find them in the bathroom, you must be an immigrant around here.

      Troll? Yep, you sure sound like one!

      All added up, one dumbass troll washed up in mom's basement on mental welfare.

  10. Americans by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

    Get out now while you still can. Your only option seems to be to bleed your gov dry of all money since you are too big of pussies to do the right thing and execute every one of those corrupt sacks of shit, so tax deprivation seems to be your only hope. Do it now.

    1. Re:Americans by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      You fuckers have been saying that for the past decade. Why should we leave? The corrupt sacks of shit are the ones who suck.

      Mass emigration? Tax deprivation? You really really want a tax-starved former superpower with nukes to invade even more of the world to get its taxpayers back? Good luck with that plan. Hope your country is first, you fucking idiot.

    2. Re:Americans by FlyHelicopters · · Score: 3, Insightful
      We no longer have the option to revolt and take our leaders out back and hang them, the way it would have been done in the past.

      The only real way to remove our current government would be if the military did it.

      Which wouldn't be so bad, so long as they don't try to run it. Throw all the current leaders out, call for new elections in 6 months, it would be a start anyway.

    3. Re:Americans by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Yeah it's pretty obvious rationalization is the real american way. A country with no tax payers and nukes.....one can only hope they would be stupid enough to actually use them. The speed with which the rest of the world would crush your so called super-power would be stunning. Idiot.

    4. Re:Americans by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Get out now while you still can. Your only option seems to be to bleed your gov dry of all money since you are too big of pussies to do the right thing and execute every one of those corrupt sacks of shit, so tax deprivation seems to be your only hope. Do it now.

      Oh, how I love how others wax poetic about how fucked we are.

      And then we remind those pussies to shut the fuck up and look in the mirror as a reminder of why we haven't left.

    5. Re:Americans by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Global Thermonuclear War: The Final Solution To The America Problem

      Hope you like to eat rocks.

    6. Re:Americans by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Sorry, we don't have mirrors in Canada. Too poor and backwards.

    7. Re:Americans by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      The only real way to remove our current government would be if the military did it.

      Which wouldn't be so bad, so long as they don't try to run it. Throw all the current leaders out, call for new elections in 6 months, it would be a start anyway.

      First you would need to come up with an electoral system actually commensurate with democracy. A system where even discounting registration fraud (hello, Jimmy Crow!) and voting fraud (hello, Diebold) the results are openly trashed and separate "popular votes" and "election results" are published, is not really democratic. Of course, congress is not interested in advancing democracy as compared to the state a few centuries ago, so there indeed seems little chance except throwing out all the incumbents and starting over to get the U.S. become a democracy worth its name.

      This kind of crap would not be tolerated by the U.S. in any state it "liberated". At least not if it lead to the wrong people getting elected.

    8. Re:Americans by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Spoken like someone who has never traveled outside their bubble.

    9. Re:Americans by Zontar+The+Mindless · · Score: 1

      All it took for the Soviet Union was for it to vote itself out of existence.

      --
      Il n'y a pas de Planet B.
    10. Re:Americans by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      All it took for the Soviet Union was for it to vote itself out of existence.

      They didn't have the American electoral system distinguishing between what people vote for (popular vote) and what they get (election results). That was a system designed before telegraphs were invented. It's continued use is just for the sake of protecting the government from democracy.

    11. Re:Americans by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      All it took for the Soviet Union was for it to vote itself out of existence.

      It took a little bit more than that.

      Remember the tanks rolling on the Russian White House?

      I was in Moscow just over a week after the coup attempt when Gorbachev was ousted. The barricades that the citizens had hastily set up -- made up of everything from park benches to playground equipment -- were still in evidence. A doctor told me about the emergency field hospital she'd help set up nearby because they were expecting hundreds of casualties.

      Fortunately it didn't come down to that. But that vote didn't come about on a whim, nor was that "all it took".

    12. Re:Americans by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      You only need to take a cursory glance of the world to see that other places have significant problems as well. Many places have equivalents for the TSA, spying (though not as bad as the NSA), heavy restrictions on guns (collective punishment), censorship, copyright, patents, and a host of other nonsense. Don't delude yourself otherwise.

    13. Re:Americans by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Oh, I don't know.....Some high ranking members (active and retired) of the military hold the Constitution in high regard. Ever notice how many generals have openly quit, or quickly 'retired' after an incident? It is going to be military or hackers, either one is fine with me.

  11. Inevitable by Tim12s · · Score: 5, Insightful

    This is inevitable.

    You need to continually track people's localized movements to reduce the total search space while obtaining multiple images of each person while they move; merging multiple images to get higher resolution images, over time (wind, rain, lipstic, changed hat, etc) all affect confidence, and then eventually match that to a known database of people.

    Eventually, correlating time to location, credit card purchases, and cell phone, you'll have a perfect match. Your phone linked to email addresses will link your online identity and bam you get a full picture.

    Of course, everyone who is not matched by this is a suspicious character since you're not in the database. Even sudden changes in appearance would signal suspicous behavior... why did you just put on a wig. Biggest trouble this database will have will be girls going to hair salons.

    As someone from the US, you should eventually be in the database from birth. Anyone new, travelling from overseas will be suspicious. That doesnt mean its local to the US. With credit card databases, a few outsourced security firms and security cams globally monitored, you'll be tracked everywhere.

    Who you meet for coffee, etc. Actually, that is the objective. Find who you meet for coffee.

    Its going to happen because I can think about how to do this, so its possible.

    1. Re:Inevitable by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      Its going to happen because I can think about how to do this, so its possible.

      "Surely they wouldn't do that."

      Man, it gets funnier and funnier saying that with a straight face.

    2. Re:Inevitable by c0lo · · Score: 1

      Who you meet for coffee, etc. Actually, that is the objective. Find who you meet for coffee.

      Actually no. The objective is find where d'you get that coffee.

      --
      Questions raise, answers kill. Raise questions to stay alive.
    3. Re:Inevitable by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      where d'you

      Seriously? I realize it sounds exactly the same as "where'd you" but how can someone make that mistake? Contractions are formed from a verb and the word before it, not the word after it.

  12. Will not work. Period. by fluch · · Score: 5, Informative

    For similar reasons as described in https://www.schneier.com/blog/archives/2012/05/criminal_intent.html it will not be usefull.

    1. Re:Will not work. Period. by aaaaaaargh! · · Score: 1

      Not necessarily. A high rate of false positives isn't so bad if you build up an oppressive totalitarian police state at the same time, one in which a myriad of intelligence agency employees investigate every positive match with the aid of targeted surveillance measures and tons of pre-existing data on file.

    2. Re:Will not work. Period. by physicsphairy · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Schneier's point can only be applied for cases in which the cost of a false positive is non-negligible compared to the benefit of a correct classification. E.g., if your test to identify a person infected with a lethal disease identifies all infected with a 100% success rate, but misidentifies 1% non-infected, and the treatment has a 2% chance of being lethal itself, this is a very bad test because you do not want to kill off 2% of the healthy population to treat a handful of sick people. If, however, the treatment is entirely innocuous, then you might consider the test to be a great one because it lets you cure everyone who is infected while not unduly burdening the larger healthy population. Or consider that you might have a very expensive secondary test which yields almost no false positives. If the first test is fast and cheap, then together you have an almost ideal system.

      The federal government is largely chasing specters already -- how often do the TSA actually catch a terrorist? I doubt they mind too much about false-positives unless that number is totally extreme. Likely, they are interested in correlating this to other data. So, being flagged by itself is not a huge deal, although it might earn you a 'random screening'. But being flagged by facial recognition as someone on a watchlist, and being on a flight to Washington D.C., and having had someone in your hometown recently lookup terms related to assassination at a public library, and having a facebook profile with language indicating emotional stress could all wind up tied together by the government's surveillance program.

      A good facial recognition system would be at least as useful as saying someone is 'wanted' on the evening news. But, as usual, the major question is whether we are going to tolerate the increasing formation of a big brother style government in order to reap these meager profits. (And, also as usual, the answer is probably yes.)

    3. Re:Will not work. Period. by hcs_$reboot · · Score: 1

      On the contrary, it will work. That will give an even more legitimate excuse to stop/arrest/interrogate/annoy/... anyone anywhere "that was identified thanks to a - sorry - yet inaccurate facial recognition technology".

      --
      Slashdot, fix the reply notifications... You won't get away with it...
    4. Re:Will not work. Period. by Lisias · · Score: 1

      For similar reasons as described in https://www.schneier.com/blog/archives/2012/05/criminal_intent.html it will not be usefull.

      It doesn't have to.

      Money is being pocketed, and fear is being spread. It's all that needs to happen.

      --
      Lisias@Earth.SolarSystem.OrionArm.MilkyWay.Local.Virgo.Universe.org
    5. Re:Will not work. Period. by dkleinsc · · Score: 1

      how often do the TSA actually catch a terrorist?

      As far as TSA information to the general public goes, the answer is exactly "never". As in, they haven't really caught anybody seriously trying to engage in terrorism, ever, over the entire 12 years the TSA has existed. They apparently have managed to nab some other criminals (smugglers, traffickers, etc), but not terrorists. They also apparently catch people with guns and other "prohibited items" about once or twice a day, but it's unclear if those people actually presented any kind of threat to anyone.

      --
      I am officially gone from /. Long live http://www.soylentnews.com/
    6. Re:Will not work. Period. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Not necessarily. A high rate of false positives isn't so bad if you build up an oppressive totalitarian police state at the same time, one in which a myriad of intelligence agency employees investigate every positive match with the aid of targeted surveillance measures and tons of pre-existing data on file.

      "Better that a thousand innocents die than that one guilty person goes free!"

    7. Re:Will not work. Period. by davecb · · Score: 1

      Then multiply the base rate fallacy's number by the number of people they're matching against and you get a startingly large number. This is, by the way, the same reason you see the "birthday paradox". You think it's the probability of a false positive times the number screened. It's actually the probability of a false positive times (number of people screened * number of bad guys in your database). --dave

      --
      davecb@spamcop.net
    8. Re: Will not work. Period. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      The technical PDF states goals of:

      True accept rate 0.85
      False positive rate 0.0001
      Search results 95% within top 25

      https://www.fbo.gov/utils/view?id=84e6e3e3b059c15456bc67101c1d7a56

    9. Re:Will not work. Period. by Manfre · · Score: 1

      I wonder if "smugglers" includes people trying to sneak an extra few ounces of shampoo on to the plane.

    10. Re:Will not work. Period. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Yes. Shampoo Smugglers, Conditioner Traffickers, and evil industrial piracy ninjas with that shiny new laptop your daughter's been begging you to buy.

    11. Re:Will not work. Period. by NicBenjamin · · Score: 1

      For similar reasons as described in https://www.schneier.com/blog/archives/2012/05/criminal_intent.html it will not be usefull.

      If they can get the false positive rate down, and they have all the other data they could get (ie: a surveillance camera network similar to London's, access to GPS networks, cell phone tower data); they could solve that problem by correlating data. They know where you live from your voter registration, they know your cell phone was at that home tower heading to this other tower, therefore they can probably figure out whether you're the guy in the brown coat or not.

      The trouble with that is that they don't have any of that stuff set up into linked databases yet even in the UK. Stateside the Feds don't have access to any of it. They can get warrants for one guy's GPS, or his cell, and they can also use private security cameras to monitor said guy, but they don't have a national database putting all that shit together for everyone yet.

      What this is most likely to be useful for is a lot less ambitious, and a lot less scary:

      1) If we know the Secrets of Face Recognition then we'll have a pretty good idea of what the Chinese are doing when they implement their new national tracking/video/everything database in 2024. The disadvantage, of course, is that it's likely the Chinese will have stolen these secrets from us.

      2) It will make investigating crimes with video evidence a lot easier. Even if the false-positive rate is too high for surveilling everyone cheaply, that doesn't mean it's too expensive to find known criminals. Let's say the tech allows you to dump 15 hours of surveillance tapes into a computer, and rule out 14 of those hours. Then your video analysts have a lot less work to do even if they have no clue whether the actual criminal is on the tape.

      3) It will make locating other people easier. If you have a terrorist on your list, and your network gets 50-300 reports of him from your cameras in Detroit, and then it shoots to 500 a day for a, then you should probably have a video analyst or three analyze the Detroit video.

      Note that while 2-3 will scare some people, most Americans aren't worried about the privacy of people the US government thinks are a) terrorists, or b) might be criminals.

  13. And why ... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Is this a bad thing? I can see a legitimate application for this, as long as the US doesn't follow the UK "camera on every corner to protect the kiddies" philosophy.
    We should recognise that Snowden's leaks are good, but don't throw common sense out of the window.

    1. Re:And why ... by cheekyjohnson · · Score: 2

      Is this a bad thing?

      I don't think the technology itself is bad, but I also believe anyone with a brain knows it's going to be misused, and that's probably what people are afraid of.

      --
      Filthy, filthy copyrapists!
    2. Re: And why ... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      You could say the same thing about a fork, but I wouldn't suggest that we should fear or ban forks. We shouldn't fear potential abuse... We should fear a lack of moderation and oversight. Hence, this is why this article is FUD.

    3. Re: And why ... by cheekyjohnson · · Score: 4, Insightful

      You could say the same thing about a fork

      Perhaps you should try to understand what I'm saying before you spew forth such things. A fork is wildly different from technology that will, in all likelihood, be used to aid in the violation of people's rights; history tells me it's an inevitability.

      I also did not suggest a ban on the technology itself. I would not mind severely limiting the government's use of it, though.

      We shouldn't fear potential abuse

      I think that's an absolutely absurd statement. When talking about whether a government should have a certain power or not, I think it is very important to take into account how likely it is to abuse that power, how easy it is to abuse it, and how much it could be used to infringe upon people's liberties.

      We should fear a lack of moderation and oversight.

      We've all already seen how the government's oversight works; it simply doesn't.

      --
      Filthy, filthy copyrapists!
    4. Re:And why ... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Is this a bad thing?

      I don't think the technology itself is bad, but I also believe anyone with a brain knows it's going to be misused, and that's probably what people are afraid of.

      Of course it can, and will, be misused, same as any technology that has come about throughout the history of humankind. Such is the nature of some of us. And it will also be used for things that are positive, catching criminals who escape justice many times before they're caught. And since the genie is now long out of the bottle, nothing is going to stop this tech from being refined, when it will get used, and abused. Welcome to the Newer, new brave new world.

      And the beat goes on, the beat goes on....

    5. Re:And why ... by lxs · · Score: 1

      The software is named after the god Janus who was two faced. Both literally and figuratively.
      Nomen est omen.

    6. Re: And why ... by Agent0013 · · Score: 1

      If the government started going around stabbing everyone on the street with forks, then I would say a ban on the government using forks would be called for! Wouldn't you? Or do you think the government should be able to do anything it would like to do as long as it says it should be able to do it?

      --

      -- ssoorrrryy,, dduupplleexx sswwiittcchh oonn.. -Quote found on actual fortune cookie.
    7. Re:And why ... by NicBenjamin · · Score: 1

      Is this a bad thing?

      I don't think the technology itself is bad, but I also believe anyone with a brain knows it's going to be misused, and that's probably what people are afraid of.

      The questions with any tech are whether it's abuses outweigh the uses. On most technology there's a lot of consensus -- ie: the fact that you can hammer either a nail or your sister's head does not mean hammers should be banned -- but on some -- like nuclear anything -- it's a lot trickier.

      In the long-term facial recognition will probably end up on the "hammer" side. Most people already carry a little doohickey that can pinpoint their location to within a few hundred feet, drive a vehicle that's registered in their name on public roads, are constantly on various surveillance cameras, etc.

      The masses got worried about PRISM, etc. for about a month; but then they figured Obama had only been 97% truthful with his "If you like your plan, you can keep it," line. As long as Feinstein waves some bill that includes the word "warrant" under their noses they ain't gonna care that they're being facially recognized. What they're gonna care about is that their local cop says it will help him solve crimes.

    8. Re:And why ... by cheekyjohnson · · Score: 1

      The questions with any tech are whether it's abuses outweigh the uses.

      I don't think the technology itself should be banned, but as I said, the government's use of it will be the real problem.

      --
      Filthy, filthy copyrapists!
  14. Isn't going to help I expect, but.. by rusty0101 · · Score: 4, Interesting

    Get Poser, or something similar, and start replacing the face picks of all your contacts with pics of poser models asses selected for a best match to the contact's ass. Remember to find an appropriate image for companies and agencies. I'm thinking a Hydra would be appropriate for the NSA, Medusa for the FBI, Mantis for the CIA, etc.

    Bonus points for doing r/g stereo of the images, or 3d if the phone supports that directly.

    --
    You never know...
    1. Re:Isn't going to help I expect, but.. by wonkey_monkey · · Score: 2

      So every time I call someone, my ass is on the line?

      --
      systemd is Roko's Basilisk.
    2. Re:Isn't going to help I expect, but.. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      What the heck you talking about homes? You gots NSA phone# on your cell?..

    3. Re:Isn't going to help I expect, but.. by rusty0101 · · Score: 1

      It's there ass on the line when you call, or they call you.

      --
      You never know...
    4. Re:Isn't going to help I expect, but.. by rusty0101 · · Score: 1

      Hey, considering that your phone is communicating your contact list through your cell phone carrier with Apple, Google or Microsoft (a couple of other possibilities of course, but pretty much all of them happening across your phone carrier data infrastructure) it's likely that your contact's pictures are already being indexed by the NSA.

      --
      You never know...
    5. Re:Isn't going to help I expect, but.. by rusty0101 · · Score: 1

      :%s/there/their/g
      ZZ

      --
      You never know...
    6. Re:Isn't going to help I expect, but.. by wonkey_monkey · · Score: 1

      http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RXpTXZ2vhPk

      Yes, that's House before he was House.

      Road House.

      --
      systemd is Roko's Basilisk.
  15. You can take your recognition software... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    ...and shove it up your Janus.

    That is all.

  16. So what's next? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Automated drone strikes all over the U.S.A. based on the output of the surveillance cameras?

    Boy, do I feel safer now.

    1. Re:So what's next? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Automated drone strikes all over the U.S.A. based on the output of the surveillance cameras?

      Boy, do I feel safer now.

      "They wouldn't do that" get's a bit old by now, doesn't it?

  17. Google Face by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Google Face Search isn't good enough? Google's mission is to organize the world's information and make it universally accessible and useful! Doesn't Google have everyone's face already?

  18. US Intelligence by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

    That seems contradictive.

  19. Here's where they got the udea by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Funny

    I think they saw this picture last week, and a little light bulb popped up in their little heads.
    http://www.businessinsider.com/crazy-photo-appears-to-show-60-security-cameras-on-one-intersection-in-china-2013-11

    NSA Man 1: "Did you see those 60 CCTV cameras on a Chinese junction?"
    NSA Man 2: "What would happen if we could intercept all those IP CCTV camera feeds and stuck facial recognition on them. Then we could monitor all 300 million potential terrorists!"
    NSA Man 1: "Wow that is so constitutional, I'm glad we are the good guys"

  20. Made my day. Just what we need. by Godwin+O'Hitler · · Score: 1

    Go, US Intelligence!

    --
    No, your children are not the special ones. Nor are your pets.
  21. Transitioning from academic to real world ... by perpenso · · Score: 4, Informative

    I've worked with current facial recognition systems and they're absolutely junk. They can match mug shots with perfect lighting but that's about all. It's a very long way to being able to pick people out of some crappy live video stream. Mind, I worked with whatever's publicly available; maybe the various big brother agencies have better stuff; i wouldn't bet on it though.

    A while ago I did a little research in computer vision. From the summary it seems like nothing more than moving a project from an academic project to a real world project.

    In the academic world it is perfectly acceptable to use carefully selected or crafted inputs (facial images in this case) to develop and evaluate your algorithms. You may have separate date sets for development and evaluation, however careful selection or crafting is OK to simplify the project and avoid issues/variables outside of the project's scope. In your particular mugshot example this would be using images of good resolution and good/predictable lighting. Dealing with low resolution and bad lighting would be an issue left to the next thesis or research grant or for commercialization.

    Working with mugshots may be a fluke, the inputs happen to be carefully crafted like one might do in academic research. So it was relatively simple to transition to this niche real world application.

    Moving to a general real world solution using images and video of questionable quality is an enormous jump in the level of difficulty. Perhaps too difficult. It may not be possible to recognize an individual. It may only be possible to offer a somewhat generalized characterization that a person my fit into. At least with the haphazardly placed cameras typically found on the streets and in shops today. Some places use very good and carefully positioned cameras to get decent images for automated facial recognition. For example Las Vegas casinos.

    1. Re:Transitioning from academic to real world ... by aeranvar · · Score: 3, Interesting

      In the academic world it is perfectly acceptable to use carefully selected or crafted inputs (facial images in this case) to develop and evaluate your algorithms. You may have separate date sets for development and evaluation, however careful selection or crafting is OK to simplify the project and avoid issues/variables outside of the project's scope.

      As a CompSci academic, I am consistently shocked by the fact that we don't really consider the ethics our research. Some of the research, like the folks that are still interested in Chess playing algorithms, is pretty benign. Other research, like facial recognition, data mining, etc.... not so much. Case and point, there's a great Ted Talk by a researcher from Carnegie Mellon in which he demos an iPhone app (paired with some server-side software) his team wrote for using facial recognition to predict social security numbers in seconds. For those with experience on the academic side, how often have you or your colleagues stopped to consider that your research may be used unethically? Unless you're working in security, I suspect that it's probably infrequently despite the fact that advances in just about every major CS research area could be misused.

      To be fair, I don't really know what to do about this problem. Someone is going to do the research. If it isn't me, or you, it'll be someone working in a government research facility... perhaps working for a government that isn't so friendly. All I suppose I'm really saying is that we really need to start thinking about the fact that there's a digital arms race going on... and we're the ones making the weapons.

      It'd be nice if we could have advice from some of the researchers from the dawn of the last arms race, like Oppenheimer. This time, the race isn't about becoming omnipotent, it's about becoming omniscient.

    2. Re:Transitioning from academic to real world ... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Moving to a general real world solution using images and video of questionable quality is an enormous jump in the level of difficulty. Perhaps too difficult. It may not be possible to recognize an individual. It may only be possible to offer a somewhat generalized characterization that a person my fit into. At least with the haphazardly placed cameras typically found on the streets and in shops today. Some places use very good and carefully positioned cameras to get decent images for automated facial recognition. For example Las Vegas casinos.

      This.

      These are conditions where even humans -- with a million years of evolution in their hardwiring to do so -- don't do that great a job. Now, there are some aspects where computers may do a better job (telling close-aged siblings apart often comes down to a few details that casual acquaintances may not remember but close friends and computers do).

    3. Re:Transitioning from academic to real world ... by Agent0013 · · Score: 1

      It is very true that trying to match a face from a real world camera (security camera or otherwise) is difficult. You end up with way too many possible matches. If you have standardized mug shots with good lighting it still gives you too many matches. The only place it works ok is when you want to compare the person attempting to get through the security door with the id stored in the system. On a one to one match it is 95% accurate. But when you try to match that to the millions of people in the mug shot database you still end up with thousands of people.

      The way to make it more accurate for street cameras is to build a model of each persons' face using many images from different angles and lighting sources. This can drive your accuracy up. The horrible thing is there are many facebook users that are helping to create this database of facial models. And you don't even have to have a facebook account to have someone who knows you start tagging you face in all the pictures that people put into the system. So rather than create a new system to do this, they should just tap into facebook's system and use it. Not that I want them to do this mind you. I think it is just more illegal overreach of an out of control government.

      There was a good report on this on NPR a few weeks ago if you want to read or hear about it in more detail.

      --

      -- ssoorrrryy,, dduupplleexx sswwiittcchh oonn.. -Quote found on actual fortune cookie.
  22. They do by Taco+Cowboy · · Score: 3, Insightful

    It's like absolutely no one can figure out how the hell we got here

    While you may not be able to figure out what had happened, they sure do.

    They had that planned all along, and they have greased all the palms that needed to be greased - from the politicians (from both sides of the aisle) to the corporate CEOs - that is how they got their PRISM (among all their many other_It's like absolutely no one can figure out how the hell we got here) schemes launched without anyone beating an eyelid.

    Had it not because of a courageous squeeky wheel, ~ Edward Snowden, ~ they could have accomplished EVEN MORE !

    --
    Muchas Gracias, Señor Edward Snowden !
    1. Re:They do by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Insightful

      I really hope they don't murder president Elizabeth Warren, like they murdered JFK and Lincoln.

  23. CV Dazzle! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

    Perhaps it's time to rund around like this.

    I'm considering it in earnest. Sheesh. To think that I'm paying taxes to support this is really revolting.

    1. Re:CV Dazzle! by GameboyRMH · · Score: 1

      I wonder if it would be possible to get tattooed with something that could have its color changed externally somehow (magnetic fields, RFID signals, specific light wavelengths?) so that you could dynamically create different patterns on your face and clear them when you want to.

      --
      "When information is power, privacy is freedom" - Jah-Wren Ryel
  24. Where this is headed by korbulon · · Score: 4, Insightful

    The false positive problem is going to become a real nightmare for some unfortunate individuals accused of crimes based on incorrect identification by this system, especially if it gains enough traction in courts of law and enough precedent is established. You could also envision a scenario where certain unsavory types end up gaming the system to frame others for their crimes.

    On one hand it's just a tool which can be used for good or ill. Unfortunately for the average citizen, law enforcement has a tendency to use all of the tools at its disposal against you in a court of law.

    1. Re:Where this is headed by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Its like you think no one will look at the images and will just read a text box with a name and go arrest that person.

    2. Re:Where this is headed by korbulon · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Of course they will look at the images. The problem arises because of the scale of the system: it can potentially sweep through tens of thousands of faces and do some cross-referencing of names and locations and oh look here it looks like someone who looks like so-and-so was at these places at these times and gee that's pretty compelling evidence because otherwise statistically it would be one hell of a coincidence that they weren't somehow involved in the crime, so likely they are guilty, when in fact it was nothing more than a coincidence. People have been convicted on much less. But, hell, in this society people seem to be OK with sending innocent people to jail as long as we get most of the bad ones (and as long as it isn't them).

      You seem to underestimate the mercenary nature of US law enforcement. If they have you in their sights, they can and will use everything they have against you, both within and without a court of law. Just ask Aaron Swartz.

    3. Re:Where this is headed by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Sam Lowry: My name's Lowry. Sam Lowry. I've been told to report to Mr. Warrenn.
      Porter - Information Retrieval: Thirtieth floor, sir. You're expected.
      Sam Lowry: Um... don't you want to search me?
      Porter - Information Retrieval: No sir.
      Sam Lowry: Do you want to see my ID?
      Porter - Information Retrieval: No need, sir.
      Sam Lowry: But I could be anybody.
      Porter - Information Retrieval: No you couldn't sir. This is Information Retrieval.

    4. Re:Where this is headed by BlueStrat · · Score: 4, Insightful

      The false positive problem is going to become a real nightmare for some unfortunate individuals accused of crimes based on incorrect identification by this system...

      Actually, the larger problem will be non-false positives. Laws are designed, written, and passed based on an understanding that there are certain practical limits to enforcement due to the limited ability of the State to detect law breaking and to readily identify, track, and apprehend law breakers.

      A great many laws which at current enforcement levels nobody has a problem with, suddenly become draconian, abusive, unrealistic, and arbitrary when enforcement nears 100%. Of course, with a system like this, selective enforcement for political/ideological/personal reasons is a certainty, particularly in light of all the recent revelations of current government abuses and criminal behavior surrounding the abuse of government power and the tools it has available.

      A tool such as this is the wet-dream of a police state.

      Strat

      --
      Progressivism (aka US 'Liberalism'): Ideas so good they need a police/surveillance-state to enforce.
    5. Re: Where this is headed by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      The actual 40+ page proposal at https://www.fbo.gov/utils/view?id=84e6e3e3b059c15456bc67101c1d7a56 elaborates on exactly that:

      "As the consequences of a misidentification can be high, the phase metrics of this program are designed to explicitly favor a trade off toward decreasing the likelihood of misidentification. To that end, the target of all phases is a true accept rate of 85 percent but performers are expected to improve the false accept rate of their system dramatically with each phase."

  25. The problem with most geeks by korbulon · · Score: 4, Insightful

    Is that when it comes to their work, they are essentially amoral. The likely use of a technology is secondary to the intellectual challenges posed by a scientific or engineering problem. The main thing is that a problem is "neat". Throw in a little bit of competition to get hearts racing and all managers have to do is sit back and wait for results. Thus we get crossbows, machine guns, nerve gas, nuclear warheads, smart bombs, mortgage-backed securities and surveillance systems. How many of the people who built these clevilish devices ever stopped to ask themselves: should I be doing this?. Maybe quite a few, but it still didn't stop most of them.

    Sadly, I think this situation is unavoidable, for you always encounter the argument: "better that we build it before somebody else does". Which I suppose is a valid point: in this world it's either fuck or be fucked, and morality don't enter into it. If only I hadn't been raised on a steady diet of moral platitudes and stories of good triumphing over evil, I could be more at peace with this reality.

    1. Re:The problem with most geeks by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      All of these 'entities' are made up of individuals. Each and every one of them has free-will. And will be judged by their actions in this life, the temporary one. We all will be judged individually. Live your life accordingly, is my advice.

    2. Re:The problem with most geeks by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      What the Inquisition showed us. What World War 2 showed us, including internal to Nazi Germany. Technology might make it easier to engage in mass evil, but it's humans who have such protracted desire to do evil that will harm millions regardless of the tools available. Reduce the world back to stone knives and you'd still see the slaughter of millions over land. The major thing that stopped that in the distant past was the logistics of reaching millions of people, not the physical means to do the killing. Well, the logistic problem was solved long ago with mail.

    3. Re:The problem with most geeks by bill_mcgonigle · · Score: 3, Informative

      The main thing is that a problem is "neat".

      And also money. I know some people who have gone to work for the MIC when they might have gone to work for something non-destructive except for the funding problems.

      Sadly, I think this situation is unavoidable, for you always encounter the argument: "better that we build it before somebody else does". Which I suppose is a valid point

      It's not. The 'arms race' towards ever more deadly weapons only serves offensive purposes. If you want to have a peaceful nation you need a massively distributed low-level capability, not a highly centralized high-level capability.

      If only I hadn't been raised on a steady diet of moral platitudes

      Perhaps more people need to be. The current ones here are OK with the government taking trillions of dollars from them and their progeny every year and funneling it to the war machine. Imagine if that money went instead to solving hunger, clean water, or clean energy problems. But, as long as you have psychopaths with unconquerable libido dominandi running things, that's not going to happen.

      --
      My God, it's Full of Source!
      OUTSIDE_IP=$(dig +short my.ip @outsideip.net)
    4. Re:The problem with most geeks by GameboyRMH · · Score: 1

      Mod parent up. I don't see why so many geeks are like this. There are so many lucrative and technically fascinating things I could have done but didn't because they'd make the world a worse place. But most geeks sign up to help Facebook, DARPA & the MIC, the NSA without a second thought.

      Some even lose any sense of morality and openly declare that they don't give a fuck because they're making so much sweet sexy money (standard MIC employee response).

      I guess the sad truth is that geeks are just as likely to be horrible shitsacks as anybody else :-(

      --
      "When information is power, privacy is freedom" - Jah-Wren Ryel
    5. Re:The problem with most geeks by minstrelmike · · Score: 1

      ... If only I hadn't been raised on a steady diet of moral platitudes and stories of good triumphing over evil, I could be more at peace with this reality.

      It's called evolution. No morality involved.
      The reason we as a species are so smart is because the best way to develop intelligence is to have an intelligent opponent--each other.
      Competition never ends.
      The only things that end are the entities that don't compete in the current environment very well.

    6. Re:The problem with most geeks by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Morality is not the employee's concern! Even in an open corporate culture, an employee refusing to perform for moral reasons, will be replaced by a less defective work unit.

  26. That is British law already by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

    Sad to say, it is already a crime in the UK to wear a facemask if a policeman asks you to remove it.

    Jacqui Smith was such a people hating cow.

    1. Re:That is British law already by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Is it a crime to shoot said policeman and buy stock in a pigfarm?

    2. Re:That is British law already by nospam007 · · Score: 1

      "Sad to say, it is already a crime in the UK to wear a facemask if a policeman asks you to remove it."

      Masked people were always feared.
      I live in Continental Europe and we have regulations against wearing masks as well.

      It's not a law but a local regulation just like when and where you are allowed to make a fire etc.but every single city has it.
      It all dates from just after WWII, so it's not intended for any religious groups, since at that time there were none.

      When I was young, the cops even bothered to check. When going to a Masked Ball, wearing a mask, you had to purchase a license to do so with a photo id beforehand.
      Balls with more than a couple of hundred people even had 2 cops sitting in the cashier's office in the evening where you could buy mask licenses just before entering the premises.
      They gave up enforcing it 2 Decades ago, but the regulations still exist.

  27. Inevitble? It's already here.. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

    They already have a perfect baseline of your facial characteristics, just look at your drive's license, or "liquor ID card" (for those that lost their license) or even your passport (if you have one.) It makes the algorithms "so much more accurate!" or "very nearly fool proof!" (read both: sarcasm (for the coming election campaigns) and as reality.)

    Sadly, I have a driver's license, three gun permits (3 different states with photo), a passport and more.

    FB users.... you now have my permission to tag away in those photos that I am I'm in the background of, it's w-a-y too late for me..

    Tag: Save our children! Vote them ALL out now. Right here. Right now.

  28. Breathe Deep by ThatsNotPudding · · Score: 1

    Smell the Freedom(TM)!

  29. Inspiration by ITMagic · · Score: 1

    Unable to invent ideas for themselves, they name the project after Judge Dredd... (And not a very good film, at that)

    1. Re:Inspiration by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      The new one was pretty awesome.

      Of course, it was also a clear example of a society we do not want to become, but as usual our elected officials decided just the opposite was better for their pockets.

  30. hey.. by buddyglass · · Score: 1

    As long as they contribute it to iPhoto I'm game.

  31. waste of time by slashmydots · · Score: 1

    Oh no, now I'll have to import advanced technology from England called a handkerchief for when I walk around.

  32. it is soon to be the time to wear masks by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    I bet good and comfortable masks will be in demand.

  33. Next step by koan · · Score: 1

    No obscuring your face, it's the law.

    --
    "If any question why we died, Tell them because our fathers lied."
    1. Re:Next step by drinkypoo · · Score: 1

      Anyone know a passage in the bible that talks about obscuring your face positively? I think it's time for me to found a church.

      --
      "You're right," Fisheye says. "I should have set it on 'whip' or 'chop.'"
    2. Re:Next step by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      In my "church" (ok, basement), my followers (a teddy bear, a plush hedgehog and many action figures) and I already obscure our heads with tinfoil. It totally works!

  34. Anyone else... by Cid+Highwind · · Score: 1

    Anyone else reading that as "US Has Radically Advanced Facial Recognition Software, Wants To Phase In Use In Unclassified Programs In 2014-2018"?

    Or has my Snowden Cynicism gone too far?

    --
    0 1 - just my two bits
  35. Apparently by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Slashed Otters agree... if it doesn't make it through the media filter of relevance, it didn't happen, and therefore it becomes insightful to claim that the screen before us is congruent with all that is surrounds us. [ :-( ]

    The realization and response to Climate Change has clearly peaked and 350.org has gone silent, nothing has changed in the EU, or the BRIC economies, the T-Pottie is over, GE food deserves its industrial and health camouflage (so say the cleansed mind voters of Washington state), and oceans and all their fisheries have magically rebounded from their industrial abuse, and neither Nature or Science have been able to successfully vet any new or important research.

    Yep, it's clearly insightful to assert that nothing happened...

  36. Why Limit the Software to Faces? by LifesABeach · · Score: 1

    Faces? Why only Faces? It would be fantastic is software could look at an image and identify everything in it. Ignoring the Sherlock Homes navel gazing stuff; computers could be used to look at things and offer help to average person. One thing right off the bat is lost items, like misplaced keys, and dropped items like kids socks. I'm certain that there is a lot of down time that the NSA's computers are just standing idle, use the cycles to find ways to make everyday americans life easier. Nobody wants to get creeped out, but if there is a lost dog, or lost bag? And if the marathons are going to be watched, how about having the computer send a message to the runner that if that person changes some aspect of their running, they would use less energy? You know, stuff that doesn't creep people out.

    Of course there's the camera looking a someone that appears to need a bra, and that person gets a text about a sale going on at Victoria's Secret, but it's some old fat guy; now I'm creeped out.

  37. Why not a Garfield mask? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Why let Hollywood decide what modern freedom fighters look like?

    1. Re:Why not a Garfield mask? by lister+king+of+smeg · · Score: 1

      Why let Hollywood decide what modern freedom fighters look like?

      More like let Alan Moore (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alan_Moore) decide what they look like as he was the comic book writer that wrote V for vendetta.

      --
      ---Saying gnome 3 is better than windows 8 not so much a compliment as it is damning with light praise.
    2. Re:Why not a Garfield mask? by Jane+Q.+Public · · Score: 1

      Why let Hollywood decide what modern freedom fighters look like?

      Hollywood didn't decide. PEOPLE decided they liked the idea.

      Why not use a good idea, even if it came from Hollywood?

      Use a Halloween mask for all I care. The idea is the same.

  38. Do. Or Do Not. There is no potential. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    There's the things that are flat out impossible for them to abuse, and then all the things that they abuse.

  39. Old news by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    It's already been done, I saw it in a movie once.

  40. Oh, I heard it was... by frd1963 · · Score: 1

    a java software project aimed at identifying the those who express their disdain for security cameras through the age-old art of 'mooning.' Hence the name "jAnus."