Slashdot Mirror
Could Slashdot (Or Other Private Entity) Sue a Spy Agency Like GCHQ Or NSA?
Nerval's Lobster writes "When the GCHQ agency (Britain's equivalent of the National Security Agency) reportedly decided to infiltrate the IT network of Belgian telecommunications firm Belgacom, it relied on a sophisticated version of a man-in-the-middle attack, in which it directed its targets' computers to fake, malware-riddled versions of Slashdot and LinkedIn. If the attack could be proven without a doubt, would the GCHQ—or any similar spy agency engaging in the same sort of behavior—be liable for violating trademarks or copyrights, since a key part of its attack would necessitate the appropriation of intellectual property such as logos and content? We asked someone from the Electronic Frontier Foundation about that, and received a somewhat dispiriting answer. "From a trademark perspective, if a company uses another company's marks/logos to deceive, there may be a trademark claim," said Corynne McSherry, the EFF's Intellectual Property Director. "But it's complicated a bit by two problems: (1) the fact that while there may be confusion, it's not necessarily related to the actual purchase of any goods and services; and (2) multiple TM laws are in play here—for example UK trademark law may have different exceptions and limitations." McSherry also addressed other issues, including governments' doctrine of sovereign immunity."
You can bring suit against anyone you want for anything you want.
But you'd never win.
Any progress you made in court would immediately be crushed under a shroud of "National Security".
You'd have to prove that not only was your traffic modified by a third party, but that third party was the GCHQ/NSA/etc and not a rogue ISP, or bug in the web server.
Good luck with that.
Hmmm... "Good luck with that" is the first answer that comes to mind.
On the other hand, one potential legal solution who go something like this:
- Get Belgacom on your side ; /. site by GCHQ ;
- Find the person(s) at Belgacom who have been infected through the fake
- Sue GCHQ and the UK government in Belgian and UK courts - yes, I think there are some jurisdictions that will hear cases even if their protagonists are out-of-country and Belgium may be one (some Rwanda genocide cases were tried in Belgium if I remember correctly) ;
- Get the case thrown out of court repeatedly all the way to the local equivalent of the Supreme Court ;
- Appeal all the way to the European Court of Human Rights (which is, according to the EU Charter, one step above local Supreme Court);
- Profit! Well, only if the European Court of Human Rights decide that, yes, there is a clear violation of due process and invasion of privacy, etc... Which, in that particular case, seems pretty much open-and-shut at this point.
In other words: this is definitely a case the European EFF should take on immediately, on behalf of /. and the person (and corporations! Belgacom was, after all, the subjectaffected - it will take years and stupendous amounts of money, but, heck that's why Kickstarter is for (I would send money immediately to such a project!).
Try suing in different jurisdictions at the same time - the French governement - in that particular case, is begging for someone to come and kick its butt, Germany also sounds like a prime candidate, as well as some of the Scandinavian countries.
The interesting side of this case is that it could result in a binding ECHR court decision that would force all European governements - not just the UK - to rein in and place GCHQ and others (DGSE anyone?). It would probably take years and a lot more money and a lot more suing to make them all apply this ruliong in their respective jurisdictions, but it would be money well spent (IMHO).
Please don't quote me on this - IANAL even though I play one on /. ;-)
The right to offend is far more important than the right not to be offended. (Rowan Atkinson)
Trademark infringment is not a subset of fraud. Trademark law came out of the tort of passing off, which originally was a descendant of fraud/deceit, but they're now different in that fraud happens between the lier and the listener; trademark infringement happens between the lier and the owner of the mark that they co-opt. It isn't a subset-superset relationship anymore.
I think it is obvious to all following the Snowden revelations that these spy agencies do not play by the law, anyones law - as can be seen with all the data sharing agreements to circumvent their respective nations laws. Any small group of individuals causing the spy agencies grief will have their life investigated inside out exactly like what happened to the engineers in this Belgacom case. Small step from there to "neutralize" or coerce the threat though many different means. The only way that these agencies will be reined in and subjected to national laws is if there is a massive public outrage forcing a lot of politicians to put a leash on the rabid attack dog (without getting bitten themselves for trying to do it). So far none of that looks to be happening or that it even will happen... police states here we come.
Funny you would bring that up because, the opposite is actually a great example of the point in question.
http://barkgrowlbite.blogspot.com/2012/07/dea-stole-big-semi-in-sting-operation.html
So far so good. DEA bribed one of his own drivers to steal the truck from his employer to be used in the operation..... long story short, truck gets shot up, driver killed. Insurance company and DEA both refuse to pay for any damages.
Now this isn't over, I assume there will be court battles but, his case is different. This case involves physical evidence and facts that can't be just denied out of hand....and they are still refusing to do anything and making him sue. This is how they act when caught red handed and unable to deny the facts.... there is no chance of getting anything from a secretive org that can declare the facts national security interests.
"I opened my eyes, and everything went dark again"
tl;dr
;-0). Yeah, like that's gonna fly. You have to get a Federal Judge's permission by finding an overwhelming need for justice in your case. Hell, you also need a lawyer who's willing to go out on a limb as, in my case, what disability I do get just allows a hand to mouth existence. No room for legal fees there. I get just enough ($1K) to stay off SSI and that's after a twenty-three year wait.
Sovereign immunity is a real bitch.
Got that one right. I'm a disabled vet as a direct result of a shipyard accident in the US Navy. Both the Navy and VA really fucked up by not following up on neurological problems that developed over the next few years. Bone spurs were forming in the cervical (neck) vertabrae, slicing through the spinal cord. What should of happened is that when they found the symptoms were not a result of damage outside the spine, they should have done an MRI. Oops. The Veteran's Administration also failed to follow up for an additional seven years over the Navy's four before doing the MRI. Then they waited for another four years before telling me that I'm inoperable and terminal. Oops! I have a team of doctors, now, at the VA who can't help me on the pain issues or much of anything else other than trying to keep me from killing myself as I have done, unsatisfactorily, over a dozen times. Whatever.
The actual point of the post is that my medical team keep pushing me to sue the US Navy and the VA for malpractice (and the US Navy for wrongful termination
Now, I do like to keep track of these things, but the last lawsuit that did go through, well this cardiac surgeon killed 60+ (65?) patients. A bunch of people kept going before a judge to certify and finally, FINALLY, after killing all those people, they're allowed to sue for malpractice. Fortunately,.I'm not to the point of really blaming anybody. I should have pushed for other tests beyond the electro-myelogram [it tickled, which is NOT a good thing for an EMG, in case you've never had one. Almost every patient screams.] For all our experience in delivering destruction, it's funny that you hardly ever going postal at the VA facilities or the courthouse. Lucky, I guess.
"[I]t is a wise man who admits the limits of his knowledge or skill, and that pretending either causes harm." --Terry Go