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Ask Slashdot: What's On Your Hardware Lab Bench?
50000BTU_barbecue writes "I made a comment a few days ago in a story basically saying the oscilloscope is dead. While that's a bit dramatic, I've found that over the last 20 years my oscilloscopes have been 'on' less and less. Instead, I use a combination of judicious voltage measurements, a logic analyzer and a decent understanding of the documentation of the gadget I'm working on. Stuff is just more and more digital and microcontroller-based, or just so cheap yet incredibly integrated that there's no point in trying to work on it. (I'm thinking RC toys for example. Undocumented and very cheap. Doesn't work? Buy another.) While I still do old-school electronics like circuit-level troubleshooting (on old test gear), that's not where the majority of hobbyists seem to be. Yet one thing I keep hearing is how people want an oscilloscope to work on hardware. I think it's just not that necessary anymore. What I use most are two regulated DC lab supplies, a frequency counter, a USB logic analyzer, a USB I2C/SPI master, and a USB-RS-232 dongle. That covers a lot of modern electronics. I have two oscilloscopes, a 100MHz two-channel stand-alone USB unit and a 1960s analog plug-in-based mainframe that is a '70s hacker dream scope. But I rarely use them anymore. What equipment do hardware folks out there use the most? And would you tell someone trying to get into electronics that they need a scope?"
need a pullup? a scope will show you
have fighting drivers? insufficient path to ground? noise on the rails?
if you're doing anything aside from poking at other peoples stuff thats cheap and
disposable, you need a scope
Are you insane? I use an oscilloscope almost everyday, however I design embedded devices for radar systems.
A logic analyser makes lots of assumptions, like the voltage levels are right, the timing is OK, etc. How do you verify any of that without a scope?
On my lab bench for 15 years:
Oscilloscope and Multimeter
If you're actually designing from scratch a new digital PCB, you can do without a lot of stuff but a 2GHz or faster O'scope is essential:
1) Debug of Switching Power Supplies [could get by with 100Mhz scope for this...]
2) Debug of high speed digital AC effects [line impendance, termination etc]
3) Verifying Setup / Hold of interface busses
4) Determining margin on variety of interfaces
Seriously. First tool a high speed scope... And Garmin International: 300MHz is for yesteryear, today most engineers need at least 1GHz to get by in digital design
2nd tool: a Good DMM
3rd tool: A thermal camera for when things go dreadfully wrong..
Other tools are gravy... [Though clearly a power supply is non-negotiable...]
What's on my workbench? A bunch of dead computers. The quality of name brand PC's has gone into the toilet. Commodity quality served up to the mass markets leaves very little quality to be found.
Your point of view is a trifle parochial.
Just because what you do does need a 'scope on a daily basis doesn't mean that plenty of other people don't need one.
It is still one of the most basic troubleshooting tools.
O
So, uhh, what's the problem here? If you don't need the oscilloscope, don't use it. Do you need some kind of approval from others?
Every conceivable adapter, gender-bender, splitter, and breakout box under the sun.
Guiding principle: For every connector form, there is an equal and opposite requirement.
Scruting the inscrutable for over 50 years.
10" table saw
craftsman drill press
Makita battery charger
2 vise, 1 with soft jaws
3 levels
bottle opener
I want to delete my account but Slashdot doesn't allow it.
you do use it, therefore it's dead.
I declare the Superbowl dead becasue I don't watch it anymore.
The Kruger Dunning explains most post on
I feel pretty good about that.
Much better than I ever could if I had no unfinished projects or any to start.
The beauty of a pile of parts and doo-dads scattered among various boxes is you always have something you can do if you have nothing else to do.
And there's always room for one more.
A feeling of having made the same mistake before: Deja Foobar
We still use scopes quite a lot, and I don't see that changing. Logic analyzers however - they sit gathering dust. With more embedded devices offering similar functions, then LA's just been replaced in our house. FPGAs have "scope" tools (which are really LA's with more limited depth). Better trace functions on debuggers. All these work fine for "digital" type problems. Outside this debug - you're firmly in in analog land, and a good scope is a must.
red bull cans, junk circuit boards, random projects, DMM, soldering iron, 100+ recycled or repaired tools. I would really like a scope to be able to take things a few steps further. I'll take yours if it's no use to you anymore.
One of the best designed devices I have ever used. It is simple to use, ergonomic, doesn't waste tape (like the new ones) and just plain works.
It grants this wonderful ability to be organized and to know what is what and that is what keeps the rest of my lab working. Without a good label maker your lab is chaos abd unusable, something I have seen time and again for years.
Essential a super good voltmeter , 2 signal generators , a dusl input scope , a frequency counter and a lesser voltmeter , but still 4 digits. .I do mostly Audio/Visual and RF work. That's why i got two generators , one rf the other is audio. Good tools do good work. Never hesitate to put the money on a good tool , that applies to good testing equipment. The well constructed and calibrated instruments rule our benches.Calibrate often and keep em in good shape. Replace the leads often as they dry and crack and may become a danger after a number of years. Follow the first rule : use caution whenever you play in electronic/electric equipment . Safety First !
I will pass along that i have a small secondary scope for audio work. It's called a DSO 201 , it's the sixe of a small player , has a decent probe . Goes to 1 mhz. The kit fits in a shirt pocket : note that if you have one check the upgrade to the 4.22 series firmware , it works a lot better. So for audio it all fits in my small case with the computer that is very convenient. For larger or more complex work , the good old textronix is still the one tool i go back to
On my office work bench:
Binocular microscope
soldering station
solder
flxes
large magnifying glass with light ring
project boxes full of SMD parts
tweezers
side cutters (dikes in the US)
scrap wire
storage scope/logic analyzer
power supply
In the other room:
cheap chinese reflow oven ,machine
cheap chinese stencil jig
(and if I can finally persuade my wife) cheap chinese pick and place
At this point I have to point out that almost all my best tools these days are cheap and from China, mostly bought off of aliexpress at prices maybe 10% of what I used to spend buying from the US - stuff I'd never ever have considered buying for myself 2-3 years ago. In this case being cheap and from China doesn't mean low quality or non-functional, quite the opposite.
And would you tell someone trying to get into electronics that they need a scope?"
For anything intended for wireless use or that processes analog signals, yes, absolutely. But for a lot of things, it's just digital; you don't need a scope for that. You need what you have already. So it all comes down to what you want to build.
#fuckbeta #iamslashdot #dicemustdie
Seriously, it depends on what I'm working on. There are items I wouldn't even bother trying to trouble shoot without a VNA and there are items I don't need more than a multimeter. I wouldn't say the oscilloscope is dead, it's use case has simply changed.
WD40 and Masking Tape. Add a sledge hammer if you feel like mixing things up a bit.
Multiple scopes: cheap ones for general purpose, fast (>3GHz (20gs/s) single shot) for looking at high speed electronics (would like a 10GHz singl eshot but $$).
RF synthesizers, spectrum analyzers, signal source analyzer, RF power meter, picosecond impulse genrator,
Power supplies DVMs, precision voltmeters, TDRs, temperature measurement, accelerometers,
Transient digitizers, with A-D / D-A and instrument control for automated testing
Fiber power meters, polarization controllers, detectors, transmitters
A large number of RF mixers, adapters, amplifiers, etc.
And most importantly - duct tape, cable ties, vice grips and cutters - to hold things together or take them apart.....
I have a lab that does femtosecond timing systems for the accelerator / X-ray laser at SLAC, so we have a wide variety of cool stuff. Some is old, some new if we can't get by with the old stuff.
I set up a lab bench 12 years ago for a small company that does a few board designs, prototyping, evaluating and fixing the other staff's junk! We still use it today.
- ESD protection mat and strap
- Panavice
- Tek oscilloscope, 4-channel storage: Very useful for RS-232, power supplies, LED drivers, etc.
- Frequency generator/counter
- Programmable bench power supplies, digital w/ RS-232 port: Useful for anything, PC-controlled for automated testing
- Dual digital bench power supply: Useful for anything, but don't like the knobs because too easy to wreck your voltage setting
- Portable DMM with RS-232 output: Good for voltage, current, temperature, frequency, capacitance, what have you.
- Lab PC with lots of serial, USB ports and digital I/O
- PIC programmer
- EEPROM programmer
- Rework station with soldering iron, hot air and de-soldering
- Stereo microscope
- Magnifying lamp
- Lots of jigs, adapters, cables, converters
- Breadboards
Just from memory, can't remember the model numbers anymore!
Right behind a decent handheld DMM, a scope is about the second piece of bench gear I recommend to anyone. Old used digital scopes are so darn cheap anymore (my TDS340A that I've had for 18 years can now be had for $250-400 on eBay), and they really help you visualize what's going on in the circuit. I'd give up just about every other piece of real lab gear I own to keep my scope, because the rest is either for specific past projects, or is just nicer to work with, but could be substituted with lesser quality gear. There's no substitute for a decent scope in my opinion, but I do a lot of pure analog or serial stuff where being able to capture and stare at a waveform can go a long way towards finding a problem. Plus, all that digital eventually gets down to the real world, where ugly analog problems eventually rear their head again (slew rate, parasitics, transmission line uglies, etc.)
I'd bet I have my scope fired up 80% of the time that I'm not strictly working on firmware, and probably 20-30% of the time that I'm just working on code.
My main bench gear:
- Tektronix TDS340A scope
- HP 33401 bench DMM
- A couple various portable DMMs - one Fluke 87V, a couple cheapo Chinese, and a couple super cheapo Harbor Freight
- Saleae Logic16 logic analyzer (awesome tool, by the way...)
- Four old Lambda LLS lab power supplies
- Old HP 3310B function generator
- For soldering, a Hakko 936 iron, modified toaster oven for reflowing, and a hot air rework station
- a pile of other strippers, crimpers, pliers, screwdrivers, tweezers, magnifiers, and assorted hand tools including my favorite Xcelite MS-545-J cutters
- USBtinyISP for programming AVRs, Picstart 2 for programming PICs
- Mendelmax 3d printer for printing out parts and prototypes
- And a pile of other stuff to make the work more pleasant - my dev PC, a beer fridge, a TV, a Blu-ray player, a mythtv frontend box, a laser printer, bins of electrical and mechanical parts, datasheets I use frequently, etc.
I like all of the stuff, and wouldn't trade any of it, though I keep thinking about one of those new Agilent DSOX2024 scopes. I probably won't, though - my old Tek does well enough, and it has a great deal of sentimental value for all the years and projects we've done together. The only thing I'd really like is waveform capture on something that wasn't a 3.5" floppy...
I'm the author of Teensyduino, software for an Arduino compatible board.
I sometimes use my Agilent scope when developing or porting Arduino libraries. Sometimes I just want to check the relative timing of stuff, so I'll set a pin high or low at some point in the code, then capture with the scope to see if the code is taking a long time. Often it's surprising how fast, or how slow certain code can be, and pretty often it's relatively easy to discover and fix performance problems. You can do quite a lot by normal software debugging processes, but pretty much all those approaches involve running the code much slower. When you're debugging real-time code, like libraries that synthesize waveforms by bit-bashing or tricks with timers or DMA channels, there's really no substitute for a good scope.
But admittedly, this is a pretty narrow fringe. Most people probably don't do this sort of low-level coding.
PJRC: Electronic Projects, 8051 Microcontroller Tools
There are only two pieces of hardware you really need on a bench:
* Multimeter (doesn't have to be too expensive)
* Soldering iron (with solder of course, and probably a stand/sponge)
Of course you should probably also have additional bits and bobs as required, but with these two things you can accomplish a heck of a lot of repairs and diagnostics at the very least.
It really depends on the project, but where I work (doing system integration) we use oscilloscopes pretty heavily as 'general purpose troubleshooting tools'. Perhaps significantly, we aren't building boards (we have another department to do that) but interfacing those boards with various sensors, motors, equipement from other vendors, and so forth. For example, we use oscilliscopes to help characterize motor/sensor control loops, to quantify noise of all types (in sensors, in power supplies, etc.), to troubleshoot electrical interface problems, and so forth. Especially for the control loop work, I can't imagine being without an oscilloscope.
It's great that you personally live in your on/off digital world and don't need an oscilloscope but for the rest of us it's a very important tool. I argue that you don't need any other hobbyist level measurement equipment if you have a decent oscilloscope, it can measure AC and DC voltage, frequency and even do FFTs. Connect up a small sense resistor and amplifier and you can even measure AC current. While lacking as a logic analyzer I find the data clocking (bit banging) traces far more important that the logical value of the data being sent. Plus most of the hobbyist protocols only need a few wires for serial communication anyways. Here are somethings you'll won't be able to debug easily without a scope: LED drivers, switching power supplies, PWM circuits, switch bounce, ADCs and DACs.The oscilloscope will forever be an important tool. I would love to not have a physical oscilloscope box on my bench, replace it with a PC interface or a ipad accessory but the scope function itself will never be dead.
From newest to oldest:
Rigol DS1052E--A "cheap and cheerful" Chinese import 50 MHz 2 channel DSO. A good general hobby scope, easily upgradeable to 100MHz bandwidth with a simple reflash of the firmware. Has a sizable following in the hardware hacker community because of the high "bang for the buck" factor.
Tektronix 7623: A 3-slot mainframe with 75 MHz bandwidth An 1969 vintage analog storage scope, which accepts various interchangeable plug in units to give a huge range of features. Actually has an on-screen display for V/div and Time/div, which was bleeding edge stuff at the time it was introduced.
Tektronix 453: A 1963 vintage portable field service scope (designed for servicing IBM mainframes). Dual channel, 50 MHz. Built to take constant abuse and just keep working. Still a VERY usable scope for general purposes, and has the sharpest brightest trace of any scope I have ever used.
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As i'm on a students budget, if i can build something i will:
> a used 20Mhz Oscilloscope
>a +/- 15V 1A Power supply i built with lm335s
>A signal generator i build with an XR2206 (going to replace with a bunch of op amps)
> A few multimeters of varying quality
> A few arduino clones (works great) and a generic PIC programmer (it's cheap and shit).
> enough antennas on my roof to make the neighbours complain. I'm looking to build a transceiver soon.
> A raspberry pi and a bunch of sensors.
I don't feel particularly limited with any of that stuff. I'll eventually replace it with proper certified test gear as i reach their limits.
As for how often i'm using the oscilloscope: When i need to use it, i use it. It's useful when it is useful, if i don't always use it it doesn't mean it's not worth having.
Strangely enough a logic analyser is one of the few bits of gear I've never wanted..
I still use my oscilloscope, signal generator with trigger, variable power supply quite a bit. I guess it really depends on what you're building. If it's anything to do with audio there's no escaping the need for an oscilloscope.
....Dont really know anything about electronics. I suggest getting into analog and learning the other 60% of electronics. It's actually not hard when you figure it out. (Hint: use math) and you blow the minds of kids learning it when you can blink an LED with 3 discreete parts instead of needing to program an arduino or picaxe.
Do not look at laser with remaining good eye.
When I need it, there is no substitute
One of my favorite tricks when working on digital/analog hybrid circuits is to use the microprocessor to set an output pin, then use the signal to trigger a scope
I have debugged lots of tricky interrupt driven realtime stuff with this approach
But yeah, it gets turned on about once every two months
I was an electronics major in high school, and served four years in the Navy before getting a job as a tech at ColorTyme TV rentals. For most of those four years, I was upset that I didn't have an oscilloscope and thought I was missing a limb. ColorTyme had a 'scope for me on my bench, the same model the school had, so I was right at home. The thing is, for the eighteen months I worked there, I barely ever used it. That was in 1989-1990, so I'd assume that they are less needed now. I have a (free) Knight Kit scope from the 1950's now. I used it very little for loudspeaker building and troubleshooting an amplifier over the past ten years, but other than that it gets fired up once a year as a Halloween decoration; I did the "Mad Scientist" gig in 2011 and 2012. I find it hard to justify $3,000 for a new scope meter knowing that it would sit in the garage unused most of the time.
If you have a device that performs most of the same functions as a scope for digital systems, and you mostly work on digital systems, then no, you probably don't need a scope. But a scope is sufficient for most tasks, easy to acquire, and has more educational value. If you ever want to try anything analog, even if it's just scoping a power outlet, you'll need one.
I recommend an auto-ranging multimeter, a three-output power supply, and a super-cheap scope to start with. For embedded systems, don't forget that you can also use software debugging techniques.
Other useful hardware: a good soldering iron (for moving beyond breadboards), fine-tip tweezers (for surface-mount work), and a clean desk, preferably with shelves for your equipment.
Visit the
I also have a binocular microscope, and I'm wondering if a digital version would be an improvement, i.e., a modern macro digital camera with zoom on a stand coupled to a computer/screen. My optical binoc scope is an Olympus inspection scope that goes up to 400x, which I picked it up at an auction of a Silicon Valley hw company that cratered. Any thoughts on moving to the a digital solution for a microscope?
I don't do high-speed digital logic or anything like that; I primarily work on antique and vintage electronics, stereo hi-fi gear, microcontrollers and ham radio transmitters and receivers.
I have an inexpensive Rigol 100MHz scope, and an HP 16500B mainframe loaded with six more 100MHz scope channels + a pair of 250MHz channels; then I have a synthesized signal generator good up to 20MHz, a Leader FM Stereo Synthesized Signal Generator, an HP precision audio oscillator, an old AM RF generator from the early '50s, a handful of multimeters, and a very nice soldering iron, de-soldering iron, and a fume extraction system.
In all honesty, this is way overkill for what I work on...but part of the fun of having a good day job and a profitable hobby is being able to buy expensive toys that make everything just that much easier and more fun to work on.
hi
anybody designing/developing the hardware side of the 10-100 Gb/s (and beyond) optical communications making your internet and cloud work needs a scope to figure out what is going on at the physical layer. sampling scopes for guys working with 1s and 0s, real-time scopes for the higher order modulation formats starting deployment for long haul 100G and beyond e.g. QPSK.
Keeps my shop warm during the winter.
Have gnu, will travel.
Sure it doesn't do what a good logic analyzer does, but it's fast. Current project: trying to get an Ohaus digital scale's RS232 output talking via an FTDI serial-to-usb to my computer. Scope-to-computer works great. Computer-to-scope doesn't work at all. Hook up probes to the TX and RX lines and I can immediately see that something's going from minicom to the Ohaus, and the voltage is roughly what I'd expect. On RS232 that's a serious question, and one that most of the usb logic analyzers I've worked with don't address: is the voltage high enough to trigger something that may be expecting 12 volts?
And I'd like to see what it's actually sending. Hit the trigger button and type something in, and there it is on the screen. Save it, type in something else, overlay them. Hey, the FTDI is stripping off the terminal linefeed! That's good to know, given that the Ohaus absolutely requires CR,LF.
That took me about thirty seconds with a scope. It'd take me longer to start up the USB logic analyzer program and get it set up.
Nostalgia's not what it used to be.
For RF work:
Spectrum analyzer
Signal generators
frequency counter
For analog work:
Oscilloscope
Multimeter
Function generator
Digital work:
Oscilloscope
Multimeter
Logic probe / pulser / curent tracer
Logic comparitor
Logic analyzer
Because of the work I do I have a collection of test gear I've accumulated over the years. The things which get the most use? The variable DC power supplies, the multimeters, and yes, the oscilloscope.
The oscilloscope occupies the spot right above where the target sits most of the time. I find it to be very useful to troubleshoot digital realm issues, including things which one would seem to think a logic analyzer would be perfect for. If I'm having a hard time getting two things to talk, say over an I2C bus, I reach for the scope first, since I can see whether or not the lines are toggling as expected. And if they're at the right voltages, and so on. I can also tell if the clock edges are correct and similar. This accounts for like 99% of the problems I run into that I need an external test instrument for.
Yes, I do have various logic analyzers. Two USB ones, a big one I'm about to sell on ebay, and a few more specialized ones (serial protocol analyzer, USB protocol analyzer). Most of the time they sit in their cases on the shelf.
-forrest
Like you I've used my scope less and less, however recently I've had occasion to use it for a few diffierent ways. It's a great educational tool for introducing kids interested in electronics. Telling them about digital and analog circuits and wave forms are OK but showing it to them is really the cat's meow.
Also recently I was helping a young chap understand what PCM was and it didn't really take until I showed him on a scope what it looked like. For maintenance it's less necessary than it was, but I wouldn't get rid of it too soon.
What's on my workbench?
1) A PC running VNC
2) A datacenter full of servers loaded with chip design tools
3) A 6 billion dollar fabrication plant.
I should use this sig to advertise my book ISBN-13 : 978-1501515132.
When I started dabbling with microcontrollers the first thing I had to get was a decent PSU. I didn't have the money to buy a decent one so it was my first build.
Next I bought a good DMM; China made ones tend to break quite often. A third hand with magnifier is quite valuable together with a good soldering iron.
A logic analyser can be useful but the oscilloscope is invaluable. I bought mine second hand.
But the hardware I use the most are solderless breadboards and of course alligator clips: every single one of my projects use them while I'm prototyping.
... when I am interested to know how one thing works
... when I just want to diagnose the inner-working of a gadget
I do not care how cheap that thing is, I'll power up my scopes
I do not care how cheap that thing is --- if I have to know I just have to know
I won't do the "oh, it's so cheap I'll buy a new one when this one conks", oh no, that's not the way I operate.
When my curiosity calls, I have to satisfy it.
Muchas Gracias, Señor Edward Snowden !
Get it? Anyhow, I may be old school, but I am quite certain that the term Electronics covers analog and digital, not one or the other. If you only understand one half are you really doing Electronics at any significant level? Or are you simply hanging lego components together and mostly writing software?. You simply cannot do much useful analog things without a scope. Sure, digitize everything, but to get there you need to make sure your analog input circuitry is working as advertised or interface with the outside world. Nyquist anyone? And secondly you simply cannot escape the analog nature of reality as realized in analog electronics - even if you can do much of what you want digitally, are you mastering the very physical fundamentals of our universe - c, l, r, pi, e, omega, e vs. m fields, noise, Shannon, ad nauseum. I do not think so. Or are you becoming a technician instead of engineer. That said, I enjoy both sides, and one without the other is non-sequitur.
If you're serious about your work, you need a scope that gets down to device parasitics. If you're putting together a tiny little app-circuit-based switching power supply that's uses 0402 and 0603 passives with their puny parasitic inductances and capacitances, you better be able to see those effects or else. I'd say that for modern mixed-signal work you need at least 1GHz bandwidth, 10GHz sampling rate oscilloscope (or an analog equivalent, but there's like two to choose from). Anything active that's not bog slow and is sold in tiny surface mount packages (say transistors in ~1mm square packages) can very happily ring at hundreds of MHz. Your 100MHz oscilloscope will very happily lie to you telling "all's peachy boss". I mean, some geniuses back in the day made nice 100MHz+ oscillators in their capacitor-decoupled transistor-using reset circuits. This still happens today, except that your oscillating tank is all made from device parasitics, and quite high-Q.
I keep a couple Tektronix 7000-series oscilloscopes and assorted plugins and probes up and running just because they let me see what's really going on.
A successful API design takes a mixture of software design and pedagogy.
If your name is 50000BTU_barbecue, the answer better be "ribs".
First of all what I'm doing: I'm designing industrial embedded hardware, using funky data busses and high-resolution ADC's. I do all the hardware design, layout, prototype fabrication, and *all* firmware and host-side software. I'm pretty much a one-stop shop for this project (and the only engineer on it...). The hardware is all "slow" stuff at this point, with the fastest clock being the 32MHz driving the 8-bit microcontrollers scattered throughout the system.
Panorama of my office
First off I've got my computer in the "middle", nothing special except the monitor's on an arm to free up desk space. A second monitor to the right is used for debugging consoles etc. (and WoW). Several USB hubs are scattered around (some mounted) for use by both tools and the product under development.
To my left up on a shelf I have a (rented...) Agilent MSO-X 3014A scope, 4-channels plus 16 digital, unfortunately only the 100MHz version. I have a second-hand cheapy 5MHz signal generator next to that for occasional use (impedance checking etc). A simple Protek 3006B power supply (Fry's?) handles everything I can't run off USB 5V or from an LDO.
A Saleae Logic and Logic16 do quite a bit of work for me, and there's the occasional use of a BusPirate. An AVR-ISP MkII handles direct programming of the microcontrollers when possible, while the vast majority of my programming and test jigs are built around my own STK500v2 implementation multiplexed with serial debug.
To my immediate left is the main project space, while to my right is space for whatever projects crop up and don't have to have direct access to the scope.
In the window against the desk would be one or both cats.
To the far left is my soldering environment, which includes a regular temp-controlled soldering iron as well as an Aoyue Int968 hot-air soldering station (with its own soldering iron). A $25 toaster oven is used for reflowing most simple boards. Bins of loose parts cover the shelving above.
Behind me is a desk that holds a "proper" reflow oven, albeit the cheapo $300 unit from eBay, as well as a rework station of the kind used for XBox repairs (some of my boards have a *lot* of thermal mass that hot air alone can't handle). Reels upon reels of SMT parts are piled under the desk...
Lighting is provided by 2x 60/meter LED strips that side-fire to each side along the camera-window axis, plus an overhead Ikea quint-MR12 set over the main workspace when needed.
GStreamer - The only way to stream!
Curiously enough, not one scope is on my bench, however, on the shelves above the bench, or on the other side of the room...
Tektronix 7854
Tektronix 7623
Tektronix 561B
Tektronix 564
Tektronix 211
And a lonely B&K 1472C.
I guess I missed the previous memo that mentioned the scope was dying...
2 Scopes One Analog and one Digital (Troubleshooting as well as testing Mixed signal circuits)
1 Current sensor (for use with the scopes) for SMPS design & troubleshooting)
2 Digital Counter/Frequency Counters. For debugging timing issues
1. LCR meter for measuring caps and inductors (Finding failed caps mostly or checking to see if caps are in spec)
several multimeters (these things seem to get collected over time)
1 Precision 10 Mhz Oscillator (rubidium) For calibration or use with other measuring devices (Scope/Freq Counter) for precision timing measurements
Lots of power supplies with fixed outputs from DC 3.3V to large 48V (1,5KW). One adjustable PS for adjustable voltage or constant current.
Programmable Load
Not yet on the bench yet (to be ordered!)
Digital Spectrum analyzer with tracking generator
Digital Arbitrary Frequency Generator
Precision multimeter
Machine tools:
Manual Vertical Mill (to machine out enclosures as well as other parts)
Lots and lots of tooling for the Vertical mill (End mills, Rotary tables, Super-spacers, Vises, measuring tools, Jigs)
TIG Inverter for Welding Alum, Stainless and Steel
Plasma Cutter
Air Compressor
PCB Cutter for cutting Panelized PCBs
Lots of rotary tools (Cordless Drills, Buffing wheels, Sanders, etc)
Not yet part of machine tools (to be ordered):
Manual Engine lathe
Vertical CNC mill ( a commercial VMC, not a small desktop CNC)
A Quality metal working band saw
DMM - absolutely a must.
A Saleae logic16 usb logic analyzer. The best $300 I ever spent.
It will sample up to 100 Mhz (with 3 channels), the protocol analyzers that come in the (free) software work well and help diagnose issues with serial comm, CAN bus, I2C and SPI. There are others on the market, but this one seems to be a good blend of features and 'it just works'. I have extra ribbon leads and take the hooks off and plug them directly into 0.1" center headers.
An oscilloscope.
Metcal soldering station with a variety of tips for dealing with surface mount. This plus an old fashioned wire-wrap tool (you can fasten wires to headers without having to solder and remove them easily).
A cheap convection oven from goodwill for reflow (use with DMM/ thermocouple) - works surprisingly well total cost: $8.
I haven't had much need for a signal generator. I've either faked one with an unused timer channel (PWM + RC filter) or DAC channel if it is available.
As an electrical engineer, I have to say, some things are best done in the analog domain. A good oscilloscope is a must for checking low level sensor signals, amplifiers and filter performance.
What's on my desk in lab right now: dead PCIE graphic cards, dead motherboards, HDDs, soldering station Gonna borrow multimeter and scope from lab next to mine :)
My scope HELL yes I use it! It's crappy - analog, 30Mhz(!!) and it cost about $60 on ebay but it's still very useful for all sorts of "WTF is going on". Wouldn't be without a scope for anything.
MUST-HAVE'S:
** Dual-output bench DC PSU (Instek) - can't BELIEVE I ever lived without one - what was I thinking? Ass-saving to have current display & esp current limiter(!) **
Logic Analyzer is an Intronix Logicport which does up to 500Mhz and has adjustable threshold voltage which is required for 3v3 / 1v2 designs; I have a Saleae16 but it's much less useful IMO; recommend to everyone to get a Logicport as well.
Fluke287 multimeter which is expensive for a multimeter but does microamp current measurements which you need for modern battery powered stuff (just don't blow the fu$e$ cos they ain't cheap)
Signal/protocol generator - I made my own! (a $12 Cypress FX2 board plus $6 AD9850 clock generator = output any protocol you can imagine on up to 16 channels @ 0-25Mhz with 0.001hz programmable clock resolution, super fucking handy)
Beagle USB protocol analyzer (although software-only ones are useful too)
Cheap chinese iron+hot-air combo (Kendal 852D) which is great
Love my FTDI quad-UART boards! - many things have multiple CPUs to keep track of nowadays. FTDI FTW. ..and whatever programmer/JTAG/etc the current CPU needs.
I find it very useful to run the logic analyzer and other USB tools on a separate PC & monitor to my "work" PC rig; makes them more like standalone tools.
[FrLz]
Here's what I've got at my lab, affectionately called The Blockhaus:
Add to that all the test leads, tweezers, tools, probes, picks, wick, plungers, suckers and solder that usually goes with a joint like this.
Agreed. Digital devices talking to digital devices, that's hardly the real world. To observe and interact with the real world you need sensors and motors and actuators, and more, and this requires analog and power electronics. This is where the rubber meets the road. Understanding this scene requires a good oscilloscope to see what's really happening. It's in effect our eyes, otherwise we are blind. Even for completely digital devices there are analog issues. You wanna know what's really going on with your 5-volt USB power source? Is it current limiting, rapidly on and off? What's the start-up transient, does it sag and drop out just as the processor is trying to run its program? What's the safety margin for proper operation?
if you don't use it, declare it dead (like the Superbowl comment). I just used a 'scope today to verify that a PWM signal was really doing what it should on a PLC-based system. And I still do serious CAD work on either a desktop or laptop (connected to a real monitor, keyboard, mouse) because you just can't do it right on an i-whatever.
Insanity: doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results. Albert Einstein
Well, with the kind of crappy scope the OP has, it is no wonder that he doesn't turn it on. He should junk it and buy a better scope, since with a junk scope you can't see anything in a fast modern circuit.
Excuse me, but please get off my Pennisetum Clandestinum, eh!
Had a bad week, so all that is on my workbench right now is a big freaking hammer and some debris.
This is a hacked account, for which the owner can not be held responsible.
Here is what I have at this very moment:
An oscilloscope, even an ancient one as this, is essential. No board can be declared "done" until you inspect what needs to be inspected. Without it you just don't know. A logic analyzer is history, and it is of no use whatsoever. Most designs don't even have busses anymore; if they do, they are deep inside ICs. Whatever little is outside, it is serial, at many Gbps (SATA, DVI, PCIe.) If you are debugging DDR, probing it is nearly useless without a well designed probe and pads for it. Generally, protocol analyzers - which is the latest generation of generic logic analyzers - are pretty useful if you have a specific problem with USB or PCIe. But they are not what a hobbyist can easily make or buy; and they, at today's speeds, require connection pads and an active probe.
A sonic screwdriver. Only tool I ever need.
I have an EE degree, but I haven't touched an oscope since college more than a decade ago because I can't stand having to interact with flaky little circuits. I don't have the eyesight or patience to deal with hardware that doesn't work as designed, so my hat's off to the hardware guys that give me reliable electronics. Thank you!
10" cabinet saw with 72" rails
18" bandsaw
8" jointer
15" planer with carbide cutterhead
16-speed drill press
1.5HP dust collector with micron filtering
the usual set of small power tools
pretty decent set of hand tools (full-sized saws, joinery saws, hand planes, several sets of different kinds of chisels, rasps, files, mallets, etc)
power-tool oriented workbench along the wall
hand-tool workbench in the center (2.5" thick maple slab top with twin-screw face vice and quick-release end vise)
clamps going up to 8-foot pipe clamps
bench grinder
belt grinder
On the electronic side things are a lot simpler...just a DMM that can handle capacitance, and a Weller temp-controlled soldering station. That was enough to do some decent headphone amp design and construction including custom board etching. I'd love to get a 'scope, but I just don't have enough of a need for one right now, and if I needed one I could probably borrow one.
almost everything used from ebay:
a few fluke 45 DMMs (dual display, nice fluorescent)
tek scope 2225 (very low noise, analog, fanless scope)
pair of digital scopes (B&K and the famous hackable rigol).
many many lab PSUs (my faves are the old HP 6236 and the mostly unknown but amazing PDI (power designs) 2005 style dial-direct-reading unit)
many signal generators/function generators (a few hp's and an old japanese leader brand).
many freq. counters (fluke, hp).
oh, and the old simpson 260 VOM (gotta have some real meter movements)
and for fun, an old leader ltc-906 transistor checker.
btw, I'm not really a hardware guy by trade; I do software during the day; but I have a hardware hobby that goes back over 40 yrs.
--
"It is now safe to switch off your computer."
I think the primary thing being left out of all the lists is the knowledge gained by experience. If you don't have it, nothing will replace just doing it yourself. Good tools are nice- but face it- EVERY SINGLE PIECE OF TEST EQUIPMENT LIES. Or maybe just doesn't tell you everything. Experience helps in figuring out what really matters. A 100 MHz analog scope is nice, but useless when it comes to a parasitic 1GHz oscillation. A logic analyzer is great, but misses a lot if two outputs are in contention.
The tools I use depend on the job I'm doing. Debugging serial comms? I love my Saleae. Looking at a fast edge? DSA602A.
That said, here's some of my vital lab equipment:
Saleae Logic
Tektronix DSA602A
Temperature controlled soldering Iron
Stereo Microscope
Credit Card
ebay
The scope still does everything. Other tools may have taken over some jobs, and may even be better at some things. But nothing can do as many jobs as the scope does, and I'm not even sure that a collection of tools can replace it entirely.
Also, building accessories for your scope is FUN. Tempted by cheap 8-channel logic probes? Don't buy one until after you've built a multiplexer for your scope. Other good projects include function generators, trigger modules (delays, holdoffs, strobes, logic, etc).
Buy a good soldering iron. Weller, temperature controlled. A couple of cheapo irons in different sizes and wattages can be handy too. Have a variety of good solder removal systems (bulbs, plungers, bulbs on hollow irons, braid). If you do surface mount work, find a decent Chinese clone of a Japanese (Hakko) rework station. My Aoyue 852 sees a lot of action.
Build a bench power supply out of an ATX PSU. They make boards for this, or you can make your own interface box, or you can pop the cover, drill some holes for a switch, some LEDs and a row of binding posts/banana jacks. This will cover 90% of projects for 90% of people. If you need more, build or buy something more capable.
Have a good variety of components on hand: resistors, different types of caps, diodes, transistors, LEDs. Have a bunch of interconnects on hand: snap-off pin sockets and pins, IDC headers, power pole, quarter inch QC tabs. Depending on the work you do, IC sockets, inductors.
Have a ton of solderless breadboards for prototyping. I really do mean a ton. I make a lot of little things and then just leave them intact because buying a replacement breadbord is less hassle than making it as a PCB. Plenty of copperclad perfboard is handy too, in a variety of styles (individual holes, bus strip, IC breakout).
Look into ways to make PCBs at home. I prefer the glossy paper/clothes iron toner transfer method, but direct milling is easier if you have a CNC minimill. With a little practice, toner and etchant gives finer features than milling. If you need finer features yet, or plated vias, or more than 2 layers, or silk screening, or resist masking, or... you need commercial production. There are several services that do group buys on short runs and small pieces. They assemble a variety of designs, send them out for fabication, then split them out and mail them back to you. I've used dorkbotpdx quite a few times, but there are plenty of others.
See that "Preview" button?
I have a tricoder. It does everything.
Whether or not you NEED a scope for your every day work in electronics may not matter as much as the insight it gives you to see the theory you learned played out on a scope trace. An analog scope is best for really getting an insight into the fact that all the theory and math actually does something in the real world.
I am an old geezer and have been doing electronics from the days of vacuum tubes and point to point wiring to the current world of processors, ASIC's, and FPGA's and any time the analog world meets the digital I wouldn't trust any instrument more than a good scope. Your mileage may vary.
A work-grade Matter Compiler, an electron microscope, and a few loupes and precision drivers. Oh, and some prototypical mediatrons I've been compiling that can share a bus when the sheaf is arranged like a book...
Get off my launchpad!
but that's a fair accusation, because I don't really.
80-90% of things can be shipped off to software where it's delightfully easy to trace/probe/debug things, and you have a functional unit which is infinitely malleable. What you can't do in software most realistically ends up in an FPGA, where really you're just debugging your VHDL/Verilog, and the simulator is your new best friend for 80-90% of the cases. When the simulator is a lying piece of junk, 80-90% of the time all you need is a good logic analyzer...
But there's still that ~1% of the time where software and/or digital logic just didn't behave right. Something analog is either necessary (e.g. maybe you're doing something actually useful, like driving a motor, rather than just flipping bits), or analog is making your life miserable.
Even professionally, I've found a 2-channel 50 MHz analog scope to be a godsend in some cases; of course, I like my 4-channel 1GHz digital scope more :) If you end up interacting with anything real and physical, or if you you move beyond merely debugging black boxes and into building your own stuff, even a crappy scope can give you information you simply can't get any other way. Who cares if it is uncalibrated and wildly inaccurate if a surplus scope will still show you the shape of what is going on, with all of the noise and ringing and transient under-(and over-)voltages and double bounces and cross-talk and odd harmonics and wtf why was that capacitor in the wrong bin this RC constant is borked and yep that part's dead and oh shit bad solder job and all the other crap that makes me happy I get to spend most of my time in nice clean software?
If you're just putzing around, sure, a DMM will do ya. But if you're actually building something new (even something simple), you need a scope.
Scope is a must. Imagine a surgeon operating on anyone these days without Diagnostic Imaging.
HP 3312A Sig Gen (bought broken off *bay, fixed it)
HP 5385A Frequency Meter (bought broken off *bay, fixed it)
HP 54502A 400Mhz dual trace digital scope (bought broken off *bay, fixed it)
Homebrew GPIB adapter!
dual PSU (bought broken off *bay, fixed it)
DVM (bought broken off *bay, fixed it)
Open Logic Sniffer for a logic analyser
Multiple small USB-based toys
multiple small multimeters, going from tiny hand-held Chinese 4.5 digit autoranging one to an Avo 8 and an Avo Multiminor
SMT rework station
Weller soldering iron
Good old fashioned EPROM/EEPROM/GAL/PAL programmer
some instruments are also much better at characterizing stuff that changes very slowly that's hard to catch on a scope, etc.
DMM and a scope.
You are blind without a scope.
On digital hardware, where the 1's are 1's and the 0's are sheep? No need for a 'scope.
In the real world? Yep. 'scope.
Anything analog? Yep. 'scope.
Is the real world digital? Nope. 'scope.
That you don't find any use for one says that either your lower-level tools are good enough to get away with lying to you or you're good enough at lying to us.
AC
PS - Stop working on 'other people's stuff' and start making your own from scratch. You'll learn faster that way. AC
There is no such thing as digital. Everything is analogue.
"Digital tools" will tell you if something works or doesn't work, but generally not how much margin you have between the two.
Anyone doing more than playing with an Arduino needs a scope, and the price/performance of modern scopes has improved so much in recent years that there is simply no excuse not to have one. If you think you don't need a scope, you don't know what you are doing. Even if you don't use it often, you still need it.
As an engineer for 25 years, I do find that I use 'scopes less and less. That's not because 'scopes are less useful today. It's because the ratio of hardware effort to software effort on the typical project has gone from 10:1 to 1:10 in that same time frame. Building circuits out of discrete TTL on PCBs made using Bishop tape and writing 500 bytes of assembly code is (was) a different world than slapping a Raspberry Pi on a quick-turn PCB with an I/O driver chip and then firing up the C++ compiler. When you need a 'scope you need a 'scope, and no other tool will do the job as well. You just don't need it as often--as a percentage of the overall development time--for most projects these days.
Let me see...
:-)
- Micro grinding machine;
- Solder iron;
- Lots of wires: copper, cotton, plastic, etc;
- Many sandpapers;
- Various types of scalpels;
- Lots of paints of many, many types;
- Magnifiers and retainers;
- Lead in different shapes and sizes;
- Scrap metals;
- Scraps of plastics (many types);
- many types of glues;
- A ship (1902 steel-hulled five-masted ship-rigged windjammer);
Does anyone have any idea what I do with all this?
Religion: The greatest weapon of mass destruction of all time
I have the equipment necessary to do my job. No need for the nerd dick size contest (although make sure you have a micrometer).
Sorry but "I think it's just not that necessary anymore" is BS. If you don't need a scope you are not working on electronics. Try not to confuse embedded programming with electronics, in both cases you work with PCBs, but they are not the same. You are never going to do anything worth doing in electronics if you don't have a scope to use. Electronics are all about working in time domain(ok RF stuff you need to do in frequency domain so VNAs and spectrum analyzers there) therefore if you cant view your signals in time domain you cant work on electronics.
The future is analog.
For my work, which is writing software for electronics, the main tools that are on my desk are:
a bench top power supply
multimeter
multi line logic analyzer
oscilloscope
This is probably the order I use them in the most often, but they are all needed. The logic analyzer will tell me that a clock is running at the correct rate, but won't tell if the voltage range is out of wack.
For debugging weird things, it's useful to have the following in a space with limited distractions:
1) The thing between your ears with the mark 1 eyeball and ear acessories.
2) An clear idea of how the gadget is supposed to work,
3) Documentation for the parts in the design.
4) Sometimes, some thinking time to come up with a theory as to what might be wrong.
5) Your computer with the schematic, layout, logic and software design tools
6) A description of the symptoms and hopefully some understanding of how to make them happen.
7) The hardware itself and the ability to power it and provide and check it's external interface signals.
8) Umbilicalls for access to debug the software and fpga's in the hardware
9) A reasonable digital scope and things to hook it to the hardware
10) Bench tools, parts bin, access to a good rework person.
11) Sometimes higher freq test equipment like tdr or network analyser
12) Sometimes, rep, phone, e-mail, and facetime to talk to the folks who built the major chips/subsystems in the gadget.
Logic and software assume an ideal world supporting them.
(Gates, flops,and instructions are supposed to provide predictable, defined results.)
You need the scope and an understanding of how to use it to make sure that support is there.
Which is why the article is silly.
The logic analyser is less important because of the simulator and fpga embedded logic analysers.
(And also due to the ability to build in extra error checking logic into the software or fpga.)
Above a few Ghz, the scope is a mixed blessing, sometimes using builtin debug tools gives a better picture.
Your brain and a clear understanding of what you are working on is by far the most improtant.
Often, just talking to somebody who has access to the hardware and some thinking time can fix something remotely.
Bouncing ideas of somebody at lunch is also often useful.
(I'm and old EE who's done Analog, RF, S/W, Digital, Optical, Power, Processors, Mechanical, Compliance., etc.)
1 GHz scope with 4 passive probes
A good Multimeter, preferably one that can do capacitance measurements as well
2 DC bench supplies
I understand saying "scopes are dead" when talking about high speed measurements. Even DDR speeds are so high that any place you stick a probe you are being lied to and probably chasing your tail. In this case I have to trust sweeps and margining, same goes for high speed serial (though below 5GHz you can trust a scope reasonably well, if you are careful).
But I use a scope an awful lot, often in conjunction with HW I add to the board to ease apparatus (like kelvin sense resistors, etc.)
I have a Jacob's Ladder on my workbench. My friends call me crazy or mad -- no, I am not angry -- but it is highly effective in disabling flash memory and such. And it makes this Bzzzt! sound that I love to hear.
Bearded Dragon
3 signal generators (Agilent , up to 6 GHz)
spectrum analyzer (E4404B, 6.7GHz)
Audio Analyzer (8903B)
Network Analyzer (8753D)
Noise Figure analyzer (8973A)
DMM
o-scope
shitloads of wires / solder / junk / hardware, 1 Talking Bender Robot.
I find it interesting that EE's were using scopes to do exactly what MM's and analysers were doing way before those existed/were common. I'm old enough that I find meters and analysers don't replace the functions of a scope, they're just dedicated devices that do 1 of the things a scope can do. (captcha is 'unneeded')
and even if you don't fix things, you should have at least an envelope monitor (scope) to set your drive level. and a spectrum analyzer (swept scope) is very useful to make sure you aren't splattering all over the bands. 100 MHz is marginal if you move above 20 meters. there are too many crummy signals out there from folks looking for that "big signal," which often as not is dirty as a spark gap.
if this is supposed to be a new economy, how come they still want my old fashioned money?
If you have a real electronics bench, you need a scope -- at least occasionally. If what you're doing doesn't require soldering, and can be done on a desk rather than a bench, then maybe not. As in, your projects are more "programming" than electronic design and assembly. Standard interfaces with the rest of the world, already designed, built and tested by someone else. On board power supplies built and tested OK. Clocks already working. Off-the-shelf stuff that you plug in to other off-the-shelf stuff with cables you buy . . . off the shelf.
There are cheap brand-new Chinese scopes and older used (and recalibrated) brand-name stuff that are plenty good enough to find signal glitches, impedance problems, timing issues, etc. Stuff that you could spend forever trying to find with a multimeter and logic analyzer -- and maybe never find without one, for that matter. These can be had for no more than what you'll spend on a decent solder station. Why skimp now?
But again, if someone's only going to do a project that involves plugging together highly-integrated, off the shelf black boxes, I guess they can wait to get the scope till they're wanting to do something a little more homebrew. Today's top-of-the-line scopes will be half-price in a few years . . .
I am not a crackpot.
Vortex Mini centrifuge Heat block Rocker table Pipettors and tips PCR Thermocycler Microwave oven
Measure in mg vs. Âg, difference could be between life and death...
A 20$ weight (read : guess) or a analytical calculation... I'll take the latter!
This is going to depend a lot on what kind of electronics you do. Since I do mixed-signal work, oscilloscopes are invaluable. I have 10+ but only a couple will fit on my workbench at a time although I have carts for them. They are all old enough to drink.
1. Weller Magnastat temperature controlled soldering iron. I have a vacuum desoldering head for it also.
2. 2 or more function generators.
3. 2 or more pulse generators and leveled sine wave oscillators.
4. 2 dual output tracking power supplies plus some other power supplies.
5. 3 bench multimeters and a pair of 4 and 5 digit handheld multimeters. These can measure temperature as well.
6. 3+ universal timer counters. Two of my analog oscilloscopes include this capability.
7. 2 combination analog and digital 2 channel 100 MHz oscilloscopes. Of the oscilloscopes I have, I use these the most. I actually have 4 like this but tend to use them in pairs.
8. 2 channel 300 MHz DSO. This has word recognition triggering so it is my current substitute for a logic analyzer.
9. Small 100 MHz bench analog oscilloscope which usually has a curve tracer installed.
10. Big 400 or 500 MHz bench oscilloscope that may be analog, analog storage, or digital depending on what I am doing. 4 channel dual sweep or even dual delayed sweep capability means these can effectively be two oscilloscopes in one and they can do things I have not seen any modern oscilloscope do.
11. If necessary I, break out the 1 to 14 GHz analog sampling oscilloscope plug-ins. This makes great eye diagrams although my analog oscilloscopes can do that up to 400 MHz.
12. A big two output isolation transformer for working with off-line switching power supplies.
The one thing I am missing which I would like is a fast waveform acquisition digital storage oscilloscope that can make histogram waveform measurements although I can do that with any of my analog oscilloscopes pretty well if dealing with standard deviations. This is one area where an old analog oscilloscope can beat out an inexpensive digital storage oscilloscope.
Those in the know will recognize that I have a lot of old Tektronix equipment and some of the model numbers. I wish their new products were as good.