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Intel Opens Doors To Rivals, Maybe
Rambo Tribble writes "In what appears to be a major reversal of policy, Intel's new president, Renee James, has indicated that Intel will be open to manufacturing chips based on rivals' designs. While the language is a bit tentative, this appears to open an opportunity for such as ARM to benefit from Intel's manufacturing expertise and technology."
From the article: "James said Intel will evaluate prospective foundry clients on a 'deal by deal basis, not on an architecture by architecture basis.' That applies, James said, 'even in areas where there may be some competition with businesses that we’re in.'" Intel is already manufacturing FPGAs for Altera that include 64-bit ARM cores.
I would hope so. Friends in the chip design world have told me that Apple could save about 20% of the power draw on their A-series CPUs if they had access to intel's fab process.
-jcr
The only title of honor that a tyrant can grant is "Enemy of the State."
Well, what they're doing historically is running a vertically integrated silicon foundry / chip-design business, not simply doing those two things independently. So they usually make sure neither side does anything to jeopardize the other, and if anything actively works to maximize the success of the other half. That can, in some contexts, be more profitable than running them as independent businesses that treat third-party customers neutrally. It's also usually legal unless you have a monopoly. If Intel had a foundry monopoly, they could be found to be misusing it if they refused to do business with companies that competed with one of their other business areas.
10 PRINT CHR$(205.5+RND(1)); : GOTO 10
There is no chance that Intel would rent out its best fabs.
The reality is that Intel has a growing number of out-dated fabs that are not utilizing full capacity, and it wants to sell time on those.
"His name was James Damore."
Apple could buy Intel, at least in theory. They have cash reserves of $147 Billion - Intel's market cap is only $118 Billion.
That's a sad commentary on the state of the "tech" world. Designing cell phones and the like is not trivial, but it's much less sophisticated than designing and building the components that almost all cell phone manufacturers buy. I believe Apple designs some of their digital chips, but are they redesigning every detail of the ARM for higher performance like Qualcomm does w/ Snapdragon? By far and away the most sophisticated and difficult to design chips in a cell phone (smart or dumb) are the mixed-signal/RF chips that handle the actual wireless implementation, from RF down to baseband processing. That usually also includes any necessary DSP and wireless protocol software, which is not simple. After that the wireless stuff is mostly just a black box that your "main" CPU talks to via a simple interface. Does Apple do any of that work? I think they just buy from Qualcomm or Infineon like everybody else. Have they even switched to OLED's yet? That's a sophisticated tech - that Apple will buy essentially off-the-shelf. In other words, an iPhone is basically just a systems integration job, with the sophisticated core tech bought from elsewhere.
By contrast Intel is still one of the leading CPU design companies in the world, and almost always has the most bleeding edge fabs. What's that worth?
A joke you'll get only if you've seen the Curious George movie: the real money is in parking garages.
There is no chance that Intel would rent out its best fabs.
The reality is that Intel has a growing number of out-dated fabs that are not utilizing full capacity, and it wants to sell time on those.
Not really... The Altera announcment was on 14nm Tri-Gate, which is not exactly out-dated, more cutting edge.
This forces Global Foundries to be more competitive with Intel, which benefits AMD.
GF, TMSC, etc. have been riding the [profitable] curve of being a generation back. That is, Intel is always a generation [or two] ahead, but also incurs significant R&D costs to do so. The competitors could wait and get the same results for far less investment in R&D. They could do this because Intel wasn't competing with them [by producing ASIC's, FPGA's, etc.]
This forces the non-Intel foundries to produce cutting edge stuff sooner. AMD was a big chagrined after spinning off GF and seeing it fall back into the TMSC model [making AMD less competitive against Intel].
The benefit for Intel is trifold:
- More ROI for their expensive fabs. Previously, costs were always recovered because the PC market was always expanding. With this now shrinking, a nextgen Intel fab may need to do piece work to stay profitable.
- Forcing the competition to compete head on [with the increased costs of being first generation], weakening them in the process [pun intended].
- A toe-in-the-water with ARM and mobile space [Atom notwithstanding] as a hedge against x86 arch going the way of the dinosaurs [without the stigma to x86 of a full fledged announcement of direct ARM support].
Like a good neighbor, fsck is there
Intel has a "copy exactly" policy. Every fab is Intel's "best fab", mainly because maintaining different processes across sites would be a logistical nightmare. Also, I'm sitting in Intel's "best fab", and we run this stuff. So. Nope.
but are they redesigning every detail of the ARM for higher performance like Qualcomm does w/ Snapdragon?
yes. Apple has purchased several companies that specialize in ASIC design and the latest A6 CPU is the fruit of their labor. It is very different from other ARM processors on the market so this should not be much of a surprise.
an iPhone is basically just a systems integration job, with the sophisticated core tech bought from elsewhere
To a certain point, yes. But using that same logic, all other cell phone manufacturers are even worse. And there is nothing wrong with contracting out design when a company requires a unique part. There are times you want to do it in-house and times when contracting out is the preferred solution. Apple performs more in-house design then any other cell phone manufacturer. Only Samsung comes close - but their displays are developed a separate division and sold to everyone so it really doesn't count.
My point is that you are greatly under-appreciating the difficulty and importance of integrating / specifying the various different system components. Combining the different hardware and software to produce an efficient final product is typically the hardest part - assuming it's done right. And this is precisely why the market for premium cell phones exists. If it was easy, everyone would do it.
By contrast Intel is still one of the leading CPU design companies in the world, and almost always has the most bleeding edge fabs. What's that worth?
Based on sales - less then iPhones. Don't forget the Intel is not the only designer and manufacturer of CPUs. IBM has their Power7 series which outperform Intel - if you're willing to pay for it. Numerous low cost, highly efficient, low power CPUs exist from other companies. So while Intel is impressive, their value is still limited by the market in which they operate - just like every other company. It's why they're trying so hard to break into the mobile market.
No, the white ages!
No, the aluminum ages.
Apple could buy Intel, at least in theory. They have cash reserves of $147 Billion - Intel's market cap is only $118 Billion.
That's exactly how it works.
Scene 1: The stockbroker's office
Tim Cook enters the office of his stockbroker, carrying a briefcase and looking determined.
Cook: Good morrow, old chap.
Stockbroker: Ah, Mr. Cook. Do please take a seat and explain how I may be of service?
Cook: I'd like to buy Intel shares.
Stockbroker: Excellent choice, sir. What quantity did you have in mind?
Cook: All of them
Stockbroker: Right away, Mr. Cook. Cash or credit?
Cook opens a suitcase to reveal $118 billion in billion dollar notes.
Cook: Cash, of course. Jeeves, ready my stealth jet.
Jeeves: Very good, sir. Where to?
Cook: Santa Clara.
Jeeves: Yes, sir.
Scene 2: The Intel boardroom
Tim Cook strides in to the boardroom, smoking a cigar and eyeing the decor.
Krzanich: Cook, you can't come barging in here!
Cook: I think not, old friend. For I just bought Intel!
Krzanich: How?
Cook: I read an informative post on Slashdot in which it was explained how it was as easy as having money equal to the market cap. I'll need to ask you to leave.
Krzanich: Damn it! I didn't think anyone knew this!
Jeeves: Shall I begin construction of your Tony Stark-like secret labs under the building, where you may commence work on powered armour or something similar, sir?
Cook: Yes, Jeeves. That would be awesome - Awesome to the max!
-- Using the preview button since 2005