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Study Suggests Link Between Dread Pirate Roberts and Satoshi Nakamoto

Posted by timothy on from the now-he's-gonna-get-you-too dept.

wabrandsma writes "Two Israeli computer scientists say they may have uncovered a puzzling financial link between Ross William Ulbricht, the recently arrested operator of the Internet black market known as the Silk Road, and the secretive inventor of bitcoin, the anonymous online currency, used to make Silk Road purchases."

43 of 172 comments (clear)

  1. Weasel Words: by Zanadou · · Score: 5, Interesting

    "Suggest(s)" = you could fit the whole universe into that.

    1. Re:Weasel Words: by billstewart · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Unfortunately, the US government will probably try to find a way to do just that. If they can allege a link between Satoshi and DPR-or-Ulbrich, that gives them a better excuse to try to pry information out of anybody involved with Bitcoin, either through legal process in the US or through possibly-illegal wiretapping overseas.

      --

      Bill Stewart
      New Fast-Compression-only CPR http://preview.tinyurl.com/dy575ks
    2. Re:Weasel Words: by Vintermann · · Score: 4, Informative

      No, the evidence is really pretty clear. You can trace the history of any coin. Here's what they show:

      * some extremely early coin, from parts of the block that virtually never has exchanged hands, found its way into Silk Road.

      * It was a considerable amount, too.

      This might be just the slip-up that unmasks the inventor(s) of the currency.

      I'm not sure it was an investment, though, as the article suggests. I think Silk Road was profitable enough that they wouldn't really need an investment, at least not in the form of bitcoin.

      --
      xkcd is not in the sudoers file. This incident will be reported.
    3. Re:Weasel Words: by IamTheRealMike · · Score: 5, Informative

      The guy who owned that transaction was already located. His name is Dustin and he is not Satoshi. What's more, these transactions had aroused interest before, been researched, the guy who owned them was not really trying to hide his identity and publicly confirmed they were his. And all this was available just by doing a google search on the address in question.

      This is the second time Shamir has associated his name with research which contains elementary mistakes, makes wild claims and is funded by the Citi Foundation (as in, Citibank). What is going on?

  2. You keep using that name by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 4, Funny

    "You keep using that word. I do not think it means what you think it means."

    When a person attempts to steal notorieity by using a famous name as a pseudonym, don't feed their ego (and ruin a good movie) by calling them the name they chose. Pick an unused name that implies disrepect to the person, and call them that. e.g. Inept Pirate Doofus.

    1. Re:You keep using that name by Samantha+Wright · · Score: 4, Funny

      The other day I got ripped off during a TF2 item trade with Gabe Newell!

      --
      Bio questions? Ask me to start a Q&A journal. Computer analogies available for most topics!
  3. A link between DPR and an early Bitcoiner by Agent+ME · · Score: 4, Interesting

    tl;dr: At least one person who used Bitcoin in the first month also used Silk Road, so we made a news story about it. Could be DPR himself, who knows.

    1. Re:A link between DPR and an early Bitcoiner by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Informative

      From the article, that one person made a BTC transfer of an equivalent 60,000 USD (at the time of the transfer being made).

      It's not likely just a case of an early bitcoin user buying some drugs on silk road.

    2. Re:A link between DPR and an early Bitcoiner by simonbp · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Regardless if there was an official link, it is probably true that Bitcoin really took off when illegal/quasi-legal enterprises like Silk Road started using them. That's not to say Silk Road created Bitcoin or that all Bitcoin commerce is illegal, just that it would never have grown to real prominence without it.

    3. Re:A link between DPR and an early Bitcoiner by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Interesting

      There's a comment on TFA that says:
                "It is well documented in the bitcoin blockchain that Satoshi Nakamoto famously gave away most of the early bitcoins to encourage adaptation."

    4. Re:A link between DPR and an early Bitcoiner by Coryoth · · Score: 5, Insightful

      I think the more interesting part is the fact that we have some decent mathematicians (in this case Adi Shamir among others) are setting about pulling the entire bitcoin transaction graph and doing some serious data-mining on it. The reported result sounds like a mildly interesting result that happened to pop up in the first pass.

      Given the advanced tools available these days for graph mining (largely developed for social network analysis among other things) I suspect some rather more interesting results may start coming out soon. What may seem hard to track on an individual basis may fall somewhat more easily to powerful analysis tools that get to make use of the big picture. I bet there's some interesting info on cliques and exchanges that could be teased out by serious researchers with some decent compute power at their disposal. Pseudonymity may be even weaker than you might think.

      --
      Craft Beer Programming T-shirts
    5. Re:A link between DPR and an early Bitcoiner by rtb61 · · Score: 2, Insightful

      However it is a pretty sure sign that the US government is working on generating a publicly acceptable reason to launch an all out attack on bitcoin. Now might well be the opportune time to cash in those bitcoins before an NSA/CIA/SS (secret service) attack nullifies their value.

      --
      Chaos - everything, everywhere, everywhen
    6. Re:A link between DPR and an early Bitcoiner by Opportunist · · Score: 2

      Pretty much any kind of hard to track payment service has been used for illegal means. Western Union was the staple of bank fraud money exit a while ago, does that mean that WU supports it? Far from it.

      Criminals simply want to use means that are easy to use and hard to track. Whatever fits that bill will be used. If the salvation army ran such a service, it would be used by criminals.

      --
      We used to have a Bill of Rights. Now, with the rights gone, all we have left is the bill.
    7. Re:A link between DPR and an early Bitcoiner by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 3, Insightful

      >it is a scam
      Nope.

      >Once the governments shut down
      And how are they going to do that? It's decentralised, and there are hundreds of clones (LTC for example).

      >the illegal transactions
      In some jurisdictions. Other jurisdictions rule these transactions are completely legal. If the buyer, the seller, and the marketplace are in a jurisdiction where their actions are legal, what right does the government of another sovereign body have to stop these transactions?

      Bitcoin does matter. It may not matter to you, but it matters. It won't bring down the US dollar, but it matters.

      Take your moronic FUD elsewhere please.

  4. Find Andy Kaufman by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Funny

    and you'll have found Satoshi Nakamoto.

  5. The interesting question by jones_supa · · Score: 3, Insightful

    We still do not surely know who is Satoshi Nakamoto.

    1. Re: The interesting question by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Funny

      Keyser Soze

    2. Re:The interesting question by msauve · · Score: 4, Funny

      Well, we do know that the Walrus was Paul.

      --
      "National Security is the chief cause of national insecurity." - Celine's First Law
    3. Re: The interesting question by uvajed_ekil · · Score: 4, Interesting

      Hmm, no, I think. While a fair number of the numerous other digital "alt" coins (bitcoin competitors and copycats) are known or suspected to have been "pre-mined," no one credible has ever accused Satoshi of cheating. Sure he was likely the first to mine BTC, but he was not a scammer developing the network merely to cash in himself. And I doubt many earl adopters are still holding their first coins.

      Personally, I cashed out several times, like when it hit $6, then again at $20, then again at $110, a few at $210, then more at $140ish a couple months ago, at which time I gave up on mining and mostly stopped trading. We were all optimistic but few of us were patient enough to really amass huge wallets for the long term, nor did most of us really see the huge recent price spike coming, unfortunately. If there is any evidence that Satoshi somehow took advantage of BTC in a secretive, underhanded way, please enlighten us.

      Just for shits and giggles, what if DPR and Satoshi were indeed in cahoots at the beginning, with DPR having the balls and skills to build a huge black market and Satoshi providing him with the means to make it work? Sounds unlikely to me, but it is conceivable that Satoshi created bitcoin not only knowing that it would be abused for illegal transactions, but also intending it to be used as such. Hmm...

      --
      This is a hacked account, for which the owner can not be held responsible.
    4. Re:The interesting question by rwyoder · · Score: 2

      We still do not surely know who is Satoshi Nakamoto.

      Who is Satoshi Nakamoto? He is supposed to be Turkish. Some say his father was German. Nobody believed he was real. Nobody ever saw him or knew anybody that ever worked directly for him, but to hear DPR tell it, anybody could have been Nakamoto. You never knew. That was his power. The greatest trick the Devil ever pulled was convincing the world he didn't exist. And like that, poof. He's gone.

    5. Re: The interesting question by Zaelath · · Score: 2

      I'm not suggesting it was pre-mined, I'm suggesting that the exponential difficulty curve is a gold rush, and when you establish what constitutes gold you have a significant advantage over "the world".

      It reeks of both insider trading and tulips.

    6. Re: The interesting question by PCM2 · · Score: 3, Insightful

      Just for shits and giggles, what if DPR and Satoshi were indeed in cahoots at the beginning, with DPR having the balls and skills to build a huge black market and Satoshi providing him with the means to make it work?

      Have you read the details of how DPR got caught? Satoshi may be some kind of genius, but if Ross Ulbricht really is DPR then he definitely does not have the skills to run any kind of criminal enterprise. As for balls, stupidity can convince a person to do all kinds of things.

      --
      Breakfast served all day!
    7. Re: The interesting question by bill_mcgonigle · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Satoshi effectively anticipated all kinds of attacks on bitcoin. Ulbricht co-lo'ed Silk Road in San Franscisco (USA).

      'nuff said.

      --
      My God, it's Full of Source!
      OUTSIDE_IP=$(dig +short my.ip @outsideip.net)
    8. Re: The interesting question by gl4ss · · Score: 2

      sure you can.

      as long as you steal the electricity.

      --
      world was created 5 seconds before this post as it is.
    9. Re:The interesting question by Paradise+Pete · · Score: 2

      We still do not surely know who is Satoshi Nakamoto.

      Clearly he's Jean-Baptiste Mardelle.

    10. Re: The interesting question by Opportunist · · Score: 3, Interesting

      Mostly tulips. I still wait for the day when someone tries to cash in a sensible amount of money. Not some 100s but rather some 100,000s. If that holds, the currency will hold water. If that doesn't go down well and causes the price to plummet, it's a tulip.

      Well, as long as the FBI keeps taking money out of circulation in busts, it just might work out too...

      --
      We used to have a Bill of Rights. Now, with the rights gone, all we have left is the bill.
    11. Re:The interesting question by Opportunist · · Score: 3, Funny

      If you keep missing him, how the heck did he die?

      --
      We used to have a Bill of Rights. Now, with the rights gone, all we have left is the bill.
    12. Re: The interesting question by nospam007 · · Score: 2

      "Sounds unlikely to me, but it is conceivable that..."

      Actually with Dread Pirate Roberts, it's inconceivable.

    13. Re: The interesting question by Narcocide · · Score: 3, Interesting

      sure.

      as long as you steal the solar panels.

    14. Re: The interesting question by ultranova · · Score: 3, Interesting

      Mostly tulips. I still wait for the day when someone tries to cash in a sensible amount of money. Not some 100s but rather some 100,000s. If that holds, the currency will hold water. If that doesn't go down well and causes the price to plummet, it's a tulip.

      Hasn't this happened several times already? Someone sells a large number of Bitcoins, the market crashes, then recovers in hours or days.

      The thing is, unlike tulips Bitcoins have utility (easy value transfer over long distances), so the "natural" price tends to go slowly up as the market and with it that utility grow. With tulips that never happened, so once the bubble burst the price plummeted back to "pretty decorative flower" level.

      Compare with gold, which is basically a 10,000 year bubble: people hoard it because they expect other people to hoard it too. Most of the utility comes from this speculation; while there's some utility beyond that, it accounts for a tiny fraction of the price. Yet gold is usually considered a safe investment, and that very belief makes it so.

      --

      Forget magic. Any technology distinguishable from divine power is insufficiently advanced.

  6. Re:Correct Me If I'm Wrong by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Insightful

    Well, I don't know the origin of Man's control of fire, nor who first did it, but I,m still quite happy to use it for keeping warm and smelting.

  7. Re:Correct Me If I'm Wrong by bcmm · · Score: 4, Informative

    It's not like Satoshi is controlling the system from the shadows or something - Bitcoin is open-source. You don't need to trust its creators.

    --
    # cat /dev/mem | strings | grep -i llama
    Damn, my RAM is full of llamas.
  8. Not the person, it's the office by Okian+Warrior · · Score: 5, Interesting

    What's this got to do with Cary Elwes character from "The Princess Bride"?

    In the novel (and movie), it was discovered that the "Dread Pirate Roberts" was not a single person.

    One person started the legend, got rich and retired. His replacement kept the name in order to take advantage of the reputation, got rich, and retired... and this continued for several generations of the name.

    From Wikipedia: "It is revealed during the course of the story that Roberts is not one man, but a series of individuals who periodically pass the name and reputation to a chosen successor. Everyone except the successor and the former Roberts is then released at a convenient port, and a new crew is hired. The former Roberts stays aboard as first mate, referring to his successor as "Captain Roberts", and thereby establishing the new Roberts' persona. After the crew is convinced, the former Roberts leaves the ship and retires on his earnings."

    The original SilkRoad founder used the pseudonym "Dread Pirate Roberts", got rich, and turned over the name to his successor (who was sloppy and got arrested). The original founder's choice of name was probably an homage to a popular character, but it has mirrored the backstory of the book character with some measure of irony. (Or maybe it's not irony, it's just unexpected - I can't really tell.)

    1. Re:Not the person, it's the office by larry+bagina · · Score: 2

      Allegedly, evidence taken from his computer (example) includes a diary while building and operating SR.

      --
      Do you even lift?

      These aren't the 'roids you're looking for.

  9. Re:Correct Me If I'm Wrong by Teancum · · Score: 5, Interesting

    It's not like Satoshi is controlling the system from the shadows or something - Bitcoin is open-source. You don't need to trust its creators.

    The only thing that Satoshi controls in the protocol is a hash code which would allow somebody to insert a broadcast message to all "standard" clients. This was presumably done to broadcast something like "the Bitcoin client has been compromised... please upgrade to version x.x!"

    Of course it could have any sort of message including publishing a URL, a political message, or even just "Satoshi lives!". Without the hashcode, clients (this isn't even miners) are not supposed to pass on the message in the network. The core group of developers supposedly received this hash code from Satoshi and is guarding its use for things deemed appropriate for all Bitcoin users.

    The interesting thing is that this is a distributed network messaging protocol, so such a message could conceivably be inserted by any computer on the network and would in theory be untraceable as well. Other miscellaneous data could also conceivably be put into Bitcoin, but Satoshi deliberately put in some poison pills to keep that from happening in the protocol.

  10. And so the FUD begins by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 3, Insightful

    Here is yet another attempt at spreading FUD around bitcoin for it is not a government regulated currency.

    FTA:

    "Although the authors state that they cannot prove that that account belongs to the person who created the bitcoin currency, it is widely believed that the first accounts belong to a person who identifies himself as “Satoshi Nakamoto,” but who has remained anonymous and has not been publicly heard from since 2010."

    Weak and suggestive... but a perfect opportunity for the powers that be to try to stop Bitcoin from becoming a success.

    Obviously these people have not understood that the the true value of Bitcoin lies not in it's function as a currency but in the validation mathematics of the blockchain that wrestles validation control out of the hands of the few and creates a distributed validation system...

    The powers that be have much to gain from this FUD

    1. Re:And so the FUD begins by Vintermann · · Score: 2

      Not weak and suggestive. "Satoshi Nakamoto" is by definition the person or group of people who invented bitcoin. If you had bitcoin in the first month, you were either that person/in that group or very close to them - which is exactly what Shamir & co says.

      Anyway, I don't think Shamir is revealing anything NSA doesn't already know. DPR left very obvious traces before starting SR, but NSA could probably find far more subtle traces, and I'm sure SN left those. There are only a handful of people with the competence to write the white paper and the initial software - which could both be analyzed for writing and coding style. It was in all likelihood someone who had written to the cryptography mailing list before. This should narrow it down to less than 20 people. At that point, NSA has active and passive ways to check their guesses.

      --
      xkcd is not in the sudoers file. This incident will be reported.
  11. On the off-chance that they were in cahoots... by RandomUsername99 · · Score: 3, Funny

    On the off-chance that they were in cahoots, and this guy helped start an international currency, in large part, to make silk road a reality... he totally just won drug-dealing.

  12. No, PayPal always for eBay, not porn by raymorris · · Score: 4, Informative

    PayPal never was popular for porn. On any given day of your choice, there was 100 times as many PayPal transactions on eBay than PayPal transactions for porn.

    Porn went from AdultCheck and other AVS systems to iBill and a few iBill competitors. With the fall of iBill, CCBill took over the adult sector.

  13. every transaction can be analyzed by Geoffrey.landis · · Score: 2

    I think the more interesting part is the fact that we have some decent mathematicians (in this case Adi Shamir among others) are setting about pulling the entire bitcoin transaction graph and doing some serious data-mining on it.

    The more disturbing fact is that bitcoin makes this kind of analysis possible in the first place.

    A currency where every transaction can be analyzed and data-mined! Yow.

    NSA must love this.

    --
    http://www.geoffreylandis.com
    1. Re:every transaction can be analyzed by Bert64 · · Score: 4, Interesting

      A currency where every transaction can be analyzez and data mined by anyone... That puts everyone on a level playing field.
      With traditional currency only a small group of organisations can get access to transaction data, which includes the NSA but doesn't include you.

      --
      http://spamdecoy.net - free throwaway anonymous email - avoid spam!
  14. Zerocoin by Mathinker · · Score: 5, Informative

    Zerocoin should be launched soon. It uses zero-knowledge proofs to add in a lot of anonymity that bitcoin lacks.

  15. Re: Early Paypal by billstewart · · Score: 3, Informative

    Paypal's primary niche in the early days was being a popular way to pay sellers on eBay using credit cards. The seller could accept Paypal much more easily than opening merchant accounts with multiple credit card services, and the buyer didn't have to give the seller their credit card number, and the transaction fees were competitive. It was way better and faster than buyers having to mail sellers a check, waiting for the post office, sellers having to wait for the check to clear, buyers hoping the seller wasn't scamming them; it cuts a huge step out of the non-credit-card market.

    --

    Bill Stewart
    New Fast-Compression-only CPR http://preview.tinyurl.com/dy575ks