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BBC: Amazon Workers Face "Increased Risk of Mental Illness"

Rambo Tribble writes "The BBC is reporting that an investigation into a UK-based Amazon facility has uncovered conditions that experts believe foster mental illness. At the root of the problem seems to be unreasonable performance expectations combined with a fundamentally dehumanizing environment. From the article: 'Amazon said that official safety inspections had not raised any concerns and that an independent expert appointed by the company advised that the picking job is "similar to jobs in many other industries and does not increase the risk of mental and physical illness."'"

45 of 321 comments (clear)

  1. "similar to" by i+kan+reed · · Score: 3, Insightful

    Working at hopelessly automated amazon warehouses where you are treated as a physical automaton with no free will is "similar to" working in a traditional warehouse in the same way ozone is "similar to" O2. It's made of roughly the same thing, but isn't exactly good for you.

    1. Re:"similar to" by jcoy42 · · Score: 5, Insightful

      I would argue that very few jobs are actually "good" for you.

      But we can't all run around naked in the forest eating nuts and berries.

      Quite the conundrum.

      --
      Never trust an atom. They make up everything.
    2. Re:"similar to" by Mr+D+from+63 · · Score: 4, Interesting

      Call me back when they find evidence of actual people with actual mental illness which is actually attributable to the job. Until then its just finger pointing at a big target.

      What prompted this investigation? Sounds like a news crew just looking for a story they can call big.

    3. Re:"similar to" by i+kan+reed · · Score: 4, Insightful

      That's reasonable to consider, but strong enough correlations say something. Not necessarily causation, but implies a relationship of some kind. Thankfully us plebs are spared the actual p values to make a judgement for ourselves.

    4. Re:"similar to" by K.+S.+Kyosuke · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Call me back when they find evidence of actual people with actual mental illness which is actually attributable to the job.

      What, you're asking for causal attribution in individuals? You're aware that there are huge swathes of medical science where you simply won't get any? Unless you're willing to undergo a premature autopsy, that is. It's quite disingenuous to dismiss the study results for this reason alone.

      --
      Ezekiel 23:20
    5. Re:"similar to" by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 3, Interesting

      I worked in a couple of warehouses around 10 years ago, and the work then was certainly "similar" to this description. Even without electronic automation most warehouse jobs are repetitive, it is the nature of menial labor. Imagine a never ending series of boxes coming down a conveyor belt, which must be read and sorted based on destination, then lifted and stacked on the appropriate pallet. For 9 hours, with a 1 hour lunch. It was hard, but it made me in the best shape of my life. It was actually not terribly mentally crushing either, at least nobody was calling me at 4 am on a Saturday to come in to fix the office VPN. I since worked office jobs with passive aggressive bosses that were much more deleterious to my physical and mental health than warehousing. The Amazon warehouse are possibly worse than most, but they honestly sound like par for the course. I worked overnights at a convenience store one summer and that was far more dangerous.

    6. Re:"similar to" by sjames · · Score: 3, Interesting

      How many bodies do you need for this? Must they be permanently disabled or will it be OK if they recover 80% in a year or two on the dole? How overt do the signs need to be? Must they don their Napoleon hats and bobble their lips in the corner all day or is it enough that if a voice like the one in their headphones says "invade France and slap people with a herring" they do it without question?

      It's funny that your deduction doesn't meet the level of proof you demand.

    7. Re:"similar to" by QRDeNameland · · Score: 5, Interesting

      Working at hopelessly automated amazon warehouses where you are treated as a physical automaton with no free will is "similar to" working in a traditional warehouse in the same way ozone is "similar to" O2. It's made of roughly the same thing, but isn't exactly good for you.

      My experience as a warehouse worker consists of exactly 4 days from almost 30 years ago. It was a distribution warehouse for a major NJ supermarket chain and reading this article immediately brought me back to that experience.

      I was in college and I needed a summer job, as the land surveyor I had worked for the previous summer wasn't hiring. The warehouse job was available and conveniently located so I took it figuring 'how bad can it be?' My recollections:

      1) The job was basically to drive a pallet jack up and down endless rows of various products; pick A number of B product, C number of D product, etc.; stack and arrange the boxes so that they didn't all fall off as you continued picking, then bring it to the wrapping machine and finally drop it off in the loading zone. For every pallet you got a computer printout noting the maximum time allotted to fill the pallet. By the end of the fourth day, I was still struggling to get the orders picked in even TWICE the allotted time. It was far and away the suckiest work I ever did.

      2) On top of that, the people who worked there were just sad and pathetic. The 'old-timer' union guys looked like they were entirely used up even though none appeared to be past their mid-40s, to a man they all appeared lifeless, joyless, and miserable. Then there were the younger guys, not in the union yet, mullet-headed yokels who *aspired* to be among the 'old-timers' with the blank gaze of death. I was struggling with the idea of tolerating the job for the summer...how one signs up for a lifetime of that...I can't even imagine.

      Luckily for me, the evening after that 4th day the surveyor I worked for the previous summer called me and said they had a guy quit and if I still needed a job. I said unequivocally 'Yes!' and called in 'quit' at the warehouse the next morning.

      That was a 'traditional' warehouse job, and I can fully relate to how it would affect workers precisely as the article states. I can only imagine how much worse it is now.

      --
      Momentarily, the need for the construction of new light will no longer exist.
    8. Re:"similar to" by BreakBad · · Score: 5, Funny

      But we can't all run around naked in the forest eating nuts and berries.

      I do this all the time and nobody has sent me a paycheck yet!!!! Fucking monster.com..LIES.

    9. Re:"similar to" by InsightfulPlusTwo · · Score: 4, Informative

      I read the article. Some guy worked 2.5 hours of overtime one day and got sore feet. He spoke of "hobbling" so he probably just didn't feel good that day, and he described feeling "absolutely shattered" because of his feet.

      According to the article, his average speed for his shift (11 miles in 10.5 hours) works out to about 1 mile an hour. My walking speed is 4.5 miles per hour. I assume that he was simply unused to being on his feet all day or maybe overweight or has badly fitting shoes. The truly ironic fact is that my job involves sitting all day and is way less healthy than his. However, I can understand why he might complain about the sore feet, which would make his job more difficult and less pleasant.

      The "mental illness" of the title was just a generic embellishment by some professor. Unfortunately, he didn't specify what characteristics he thought were risky about this job, so I didn't learn very much.

      --
      I felt bad for the man who had no signature, until I met a man who had no comment.
    10. Re:"similar to" by QRDeNameland · · Score: 5, Informative

      I assume that he was simply unused to being on his feet all day or maybe overweight or has badly fitting shoes.

      Or maybe...like many if not the vast majority of warehouses, they have hard concrete floors, which are brutal on the feet. The husband of one of my co-workers' works at Home Depot with the concrete floor, he is slim and in good shape, and has tried every orthopedic shoe solution available and still it's problematic. And I know for me personally, I can walk or hike for hours on end without a problem, but more than 30 minutes in a Home Depot or Costco on the concrete floors and my feet and calves are aching.

      --
      Momentarily, the need for the construction of new light will no longer exist.
    11. Re:"similar to" by i+kan+reed · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Not just that, but "correlation is not causation" is only true in that those could be correlated due to a secondary cause. The phrase isn't meant to imply a complete lack of connection, just that the connection isn't necessarily the intuitive one.

    12. Re:"similar to" by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Informative

      "For example, Amazon employees face a zero tolerance policy to talking to each other during work hours"

      Not true at all.

      - signed, an Amazon warehouse employee

    13. Re:"similar to" by war4peace · · Score: 4, Funny

      What do you mean "intended as humor"??? GAAAAAAAAAAAAAAHHHHAHAHAAAAAAHHHH!
      *runs away, hands flailing*

      --
      ...gis sdrawkcab (usually not responding to ACs; don't bother posting as AC)
    14. Re:"similar to" by danlip · · Score: 4, Insightful

      To go hunting and foraging you need to own the land or have the permission of someone who does. Even on public lands such activities would be restricted. You might get away with breaking the rules for a long time, but that doesn't mean it's allowed. Owning land requires money which requires some job other than hunting and foraging. Also there is absolutely no way that this planet can support 7 billion people (or even 1 billion) via hunting and foraging.

    15. Re:"similar to" by ffflala · · Score: 4, Funny

      Amazon employees face a zero tolerance policy to talking to each other during work hours. Speak to anyone, lose your job.

      Well that just seems like it would shut the warehouse down in a hurry.

      First, one guy talks. "Man my legs are killing me!"
      "You're fired!" says his supervisor... who is now going to get fired for talking on the job.
      "You there, talking supervisor, you're fired for talking when you fired that guy!" And now *that* guy is next, and up it goes until Jeff Bezos finds himself out of a job.

      I'm surprised it hasn't happened already.

  2. Amazon brutal, but not a convenient liberal cause by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 3, Insightful

    This Thanksgiving I am going to hear from all of my pro-union family members about how evil Walmart (my employer) is, and how they treat their employees. All the while comparing books they are reading on their Kindles and shopping for Kindle Fires for their kids.

    Liberals are so awesomely hypocritical.

  3. Where would we be without experts? by jamesl · · Score: 3, Insightful

    A BBC investigation into a UK-based Amazon warehouse has found conditions that a stress expert said could cause "mental and physical illness".

    Well, that settles it.

    1. Re:Where would we be without experts? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 3, Insightful

      I don't want to believe this, so I'm going to make "expert" sound like it's a bad thing even though I have no real argument

    2. Re:Where would we be without experts? by 0123456 · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Then, some Romanians, Poles, Bulgarians come in, get the same jobs for 70% of the initial wage the UK natives were whining about and work harder and are happier with 0% insanity.

      That's because they're getting paid ten times as much as a doctor would in their own country for doing menial work, and can save enough in a few years to go home and set themselves up for life.

      If 'Lazy Britons' could earn $1,000,000 a year for fifteen hour days cleaning offices in Poland, they'd be out there with a big smile on their face eager to do as many hours as they could.

  4. Re:Amazon brutal, but not a convenient liberal cau by i+kan+reed · · Score: 4, Interesting

    Oh, is your employer the one that held a food drive for you because you wouldn't have enough food for thanksgiving with the shitty pay you get, or was that a different wal-mart?

    Also, I don't own a kindle, and I'm aware of, and try to avoid the modern slavery in electronics production.

  5. Re:Amazon brutal, but not a convenient liberal cau by Shakrai · · Score: 5, Funny

    Why would you two trade families when you can get married and have the worst of both worlds at the same time?

    --
    I want peace on earth and goodwill toward man.
    We are the United States Government! We don't do that sort of thing.
  6. 11 Miles a shift? by jddeluxe · · Score: 4, Insightful

    I once accidentally worked for the US Postal Service for a year and a half and my job involved walking that much every shift; I must say that I was probably at my best physical shape of my life outside of military service...

    1. Re:11 Miles a shift? by dysmal · · Score: 5, Interesting

      Having worked in a warehouse before, the physical toll of WALKING on a concrete industrial floor can be bad. My back, feet, and knees were in bad shape after about 9 months. You need to wear proper foot attire but most people working these jobs don't learn that until it's too late. Brand new athletic shoes were "flat" after 2 months yet they looked like they were in mint condition. There's a reason why they have the padded safety mats anywhere that people tend to stand in one place for hours on end. Look under the feet of your checker at your grocery store! I don't doubt the job is mindless and can be torture for someone who has independent thought but to say that someone is at risk of "increased mental illness" is garbage. The plight of the Amazon.com workers is nothing new. Amazon isn't treating their workers drastically different than other warehouse/shipping companies. They're just getting picked on because they're the biggest (like Apple getting attacked for the child labor at their suppliers). If we as a people want this situation to change, then we as a people need to stop clicking on "express shipping" and be patient.

    2. Re:11 Miles a shift? by Njovich · · Score: 3, Interesting

      I once accidentally worked for the US Postal Service for a year and a half

      Accidentally? How did that work? Did you think it was a sysadmin job when they were talking about mail delivery system?

    3. Re:11 Miles a shift? by 140Mandak262Jamuna · · Score: 3, Funny

      I once accidentally worked for the US Postal Service for a year and a half

      Accidentally? How did that work? Did you think it was a sysadmin job when they were talking about mail delivery system?

      He just means he has been collecting pay checks from the USPS for decades, but accidentally, in spite of himself, without really meaning to, inadvertently, he performed some activities that turned out to be working.

      --
      sed -e 's/Chuck Norris/Rajnikant/g' joke > fact
  7. BOZOS for BEZOS! by Jeremiah+Cornelius · · Score: 3, Funny

    Hell comes to your house, one box at a time!

    --
    "Flyin' in just a sweet place,
    Never been known to fail..."
  8. Remind anyone of Manna? by GameboyRMH · · Score: 3, Informative

    The gear they're using sounds like a very primitive precursor to the headsets from Manna...which are already very close to completely possible. Just some Google Glass units and the rest is software (where the difficulty lies, in object recognition of course).

    --
    "When information is power, privacy is freedom" - Jah-Wren Ryel
    1. Re:Remind anyone of Manna? by Jeng · · Score: 5, Interesting

      Yes, that was my first thought when reading the article.

      And since you did not provide a link here is one for people wondering what we are talking about.

      http://marshallbrain.com/manna1.htm

      --
      Don't know something? Look it up. Still don't know? Then ask.
    2. Re:Remind anyone of Manna? by OzPeter · · Score: 5, Insightful

      Yes, that was my first thought when reading the article.

      And since you did not provide a link here is one for people wondering what we are talking about.

      http://marshallbrain.com/manna1.htm

      just started reading from that link and then I found this paragraph in the story:

      Ultimately, you would expect that there would be riots across America. But the people could not riot. The terrorist scares at the beginning of the century had caused a number of important changes. Eventually, there were video security cameras and microphones covering and recording nearly every square inch of public space in America. There were taps on all phone conversations and Internet messages sniffing for terrorist clues. If anyone thought about starting a protest rally or a riot, or discussed any form of civil disobedience with anyone else, he was branded a terrorist and preemptively put in jail. Combine that with robotic security forces, and riots are impossible.

      --
      I am Slashdot. Are you Slashdot as well?
  9. Re:Amazon brutal, but not a convenient liberal cau by beelsebob · · Score: 5, Insightful

    It turned into a liberal vs conservative issue because those who aren't in favour of workers not being made ill by their work needed a way to justify that, and therefore did their best to associate it with what's commonly seen as an extreme, and slightly insane political affiliation. They then burned this straw political affiliation man at the steak to demonstrate how dumb it was to support the idea of workers not being made ill by their work.

  10. Re:Amazon brutal, but not a convenient liberal cau by Pinky's+Brain · · Score: 3, Insightful

    Problem is that robots are already waiting in the wings ... Amazon pickers have only a couple years of job left as it is (unless minimum wage craters faster than robots get cheaper, at third world wages they can outcompete robots for a few years longer ... hard to see who will be left to consume though). If they unionise robots will take over faster.

  11. Re:Total Crap by SimonTheSoundMan · · Score: 5, Insightful

    I wouldn't class stress or depression as a mental illness, it is a physical one.

    AC, at least the BBC have the balls to do this, unlike other commercial broadcasters.

  12. mod parent up by mekkab · · Score: 4, Funny

    In-Laws: because we're not happy unless you're not happy.

    --
    In the future, I would want to not be isolated from my friends in the Space Station.
  13. Re:Amazon brutal, but not a convenient liberal cau by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 3, Funny

    And then they eat the steak, well-cooked by the straw-fueled flames.

  14. Re:Amazon brutal, but not a convenient liberal cau by CraftyJack · · Score: 4, Funny

    Thanksgiving: It's like the /. comments, but with turkey.

  15. Re:Balancing Act? by Andrewkov · · Score: 3, Insightful

    Any gains in efficiency never result in less work or more vacation time... it results in layoffs and cost cutting to be more competitive and increase margins, which in turn forces other companies to do the same thing. Combine that with globalization, it's a race to the bottom.

  16. Re:Let's just replace pickers with robots... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 3, Informative

    To be fair Thatcher tripled unemployment, introduced student loans, sold nationalised industries off for peanuts (and no, the service isn't better or cheaper, See: BT, British Gas etc.), allowed foreign companies to take over much of what was left, treated whole swathes of the country like shit, allowed councils to sell off school playing fields to property developers and, well, created that whole property-owning landlord monster class who is still fucking over the masses & means a typical house the size of a matchbox in the UK costs more than a middle-class home in the US.

    And while we're at it she presided over a cover-up concerning Hillsborough, a cover-up over police actions during the Miner's Strike and was best pals with England's most famous TV presenting paedophile rapist - Jimmy Savile (actually demanding he should be Knighted by the Queen).

    There's a lot more that can be said about Mrs T. Sure, she didn't outsource to Eastern Europe (no one did then - Cold War and all that). However, she was meant to be 'tough' on immigration while the inner-cities filled up with all manner of immigrants. Yeah, I know many down South still love her, but much of the rest of the country see her as someone who did more to kill the social fabric of Britain than the Germans in WW2.

    As for the BBC, you do know many of its top staff are Conservative supporters don't you? Since the coalition got in the BBC has bent over backwards to push a right-wing agenda (including those numerous God-awful 'Oh look at all the benefit scroungers' documentaries). They also appear to act as a job agency for failed Tory MPs who litter its programmes. The BBC is and always has been the Establishment. Sad really.

  17. Re:Amazon brutal, but not a convenient liberal cau by FlyHelicopters · · Score: 4, Interesting
    http://dealbook.nytimes.com/2012/03/19/amazon-com-buys-kiva-systems-for-775-million/

    Amazon is working on it, it is just a matter of time.

  18. Re:Amazon brutal, but not a convenient liberal cau by Unordained · · Score: 3, Funny

    Yes, it's really amazing we haven't yet declared ourselves mentally ill, for putting people first. I mean, really -- minimum wages? Food and shelter? Safety regulations? Non-discrimination in the workplace? Civil rights? Healthcare? Are we nuts?!?

  19. Re:Let's just replace pickers with robots... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 3, Insightful

    Yeah, an organisation run by posh people and full of Tory MPs that appears to devote half of its political output to bashing poor people and praising multinational corporations just screams fucking left-wing, doesn't it?

  20. I Was a Warehouse Wage Slave, By Mac McClelland, by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 4, Interesting

    I Was a Warehouse Wage Slave, By Mac McClelland, March/April 2012 Issue, Mother Jones.

    "My brief, backbreaking, rage-inducing, low-paying, dildo-packing time inside the online-shipping machine."

  21. Re:Amazon brutal, but not a convenient liberal cau by fredrated · · Score: 4, Funny

    "My liberal family members are hypocrites, therefore all liberals are hypocrites"
    Your conservative reasoning is awesome.

  22. Re:Amazon brutal, but not a convenient liberal cau by CraftyJack · · Score: 3, Insightful

    Thanksgiving: It's like the /. comments, but with turkey and alcohol.

    Fixed it for you.

    Not even alcohol can fix it. Not even alcohol.

  23. Never seen anything like that. by luis_a_espinal · · Score: 3, Insightful

    I assume that he was simply unused to being on his feet all day or maybe overweight or has badly fitting shoes.

    Or maybe...like many if not the vast majority of warehouses, they have hard concrete floors, which are brutal on the feet. The husband of one of my co-workers' works at Home Depot with the concrete floor, he is slim and in good shape, and has tried every orthopedic shoe solution available and still it's problematic. And I know for me personally, I can walk or hike for hours on end without a problem, but more than 30 minutes in a Home Depot or Costco on the concrete floors and my feet and calves are aching.

    I worked at the Home Depot for two years, and I never got what you described. I never met one HD worker who complained about chronic foot pain due to hard concrete floors. I trust this observation because we, Home Depot workers always complained about other physical things: like dust from the Building Materials and Flooring departments. Back pains (the company gave us elastic back braces to help with lifting heavy stuff). Incredibly rude customers. Getting our fingers smashed when carrying tiles or concrete blocks or whatever.

    We came in all shapes and sizes, male and female. We even had a joke, that whenever we finished our day, we would have been "Home Depot'ed" (beat up to crap by work.) But I never heard people complaining about chronic foot pain from walking 8+ hours on the concrete floor.

    I'm not saying that what you describe is false. But it is not something that I ever experienced, or witnessed, when I worked at a Home Depot store.