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Jury Finds Newegg Infringed Patent, Owes $2.3 Million
Jah-Wren Ryel sends this quote from Ars:
"Newegg, an online retailer that has made a name for itself fighting the non-practicing patent holders sometimes called 'patent trolls,' sits on the losing end of a lawsuit tonight. An eight-person jury came back shortly after 7:00pm and found that the company infringed all four asserted claims of a patent owned by TQP Development, a company owned by patent enforcement expert Erich Spangenberg. The jury also found that the patent was valid, apparently rejecting arguments by famed cryptographer Whitfield Diffie. Diffie took the stand on Friday to argue on behalf of Newegg and against the patent. In total, the jury ordered Newegg to pay $2.3 million, a bit less than half of the $5.1 million TQP's damage expert suggested. ... TQP's single patent is tied to a failed modem business run by Michael Jones, formerly president of Telequip. TQP has acquired more than $45 million in patent licensing fees by getting settlements from a total of 139 companies since TQP argues that its patent covers SSL or TLS combined with the RC4 cipher, a common Internet security system used by retailers like Newegg."
Sometimes Amazon has stuff for like 4 dollars less, but their prices are different at different times of the day and sometimes (rarely) even when browsing their site with different browsers. Really, it's trust; I trust Newegg, I don't trust Amazon.
Let's stop this jury are morons myth. The judges gives the jury a list of very specific questions to answer in these cases, taking 2-5 hours. It's not like 12 Angry Men, where people debate what they're heard and sway opinions.
The judge controls the entire jury thought process and has clearly spent a long time crafting the question list beforehand. Being an expert at law, they have already determined the result and knew precisely how to ensure their verdict is the one reached, but they still need to go through the proletarians to reinforce his chosen result.
I've been on jury duty in a bullshit patent suit, and despite the obvious sane result, the judge's contrived question list ensures you cannot come up with any result other than what (s)he has already determined. There is no "let's discuss this" based on what was presented. Any jury not doing so will be kicked out and the trial starts from fresh.
The massive issue here is that this is all behind the scenes, none of it is allowed to become part of the public record, hence posting AC.
Amazon.com charges a restocking fee under exactly the same circumstances that Newegg does
No they don't, unopened items returned within the return window are refunded in full, minus the return shipping cost if the return was a result of an error made by the customer. You only eat a percentage of the product if it's returned outside of the usual 30 day return window, which is certainly fair.
In Newegg's case, they attempted to tried to ding me 15% of an unopened $600 video card, despite their CSRs claim that they would waive the fee. The return was completely my fault, I ordered the wrong card, and was open about that fact during my communication with them. I initially reached out to them in the hope that they would simply recall the shipment, since I hadn't received it, but they claimed this was impossible. They also told me that I could not refuse delivery (an option with Amazon, FYI), because that would be a return without an RMA, and suggested I go through the standard RMA process. I asked what would happen, they said I would get a total refund and only be on the hook for return shipping, which was more than I expected (eating the S/H charges in both directions would have been fair, since the mistake was mine), but I assumed they were being nice since I had placed an order for the correct card prior to calling on the bad one.
Imagine my surprise when I got my credit card statement and found the restocking fee. Numerous phone calls ensued, wherein every single person that I talked to refused to honor the deal. Escalated to supervisors, who also refused to honor the deal, escalated again to people that never returned phone calls. Offered to provide a recording of the original call, but was told that it would be "irrelevant", because the CSR "exceeded his authority", as if that's my problem. I ultimately had to dispute the charge with my credit card company, and the only reason I prevailed there was because of the aforementioned recording.
The best part? A few weeks later I get an e-mail telling me that I'm prohibited from doing business with them, because of the chargeback. Their prerogative I suppose, but none of it would have happened if they had simply honored their CSRs original promise.
I want peace on earth and goodwill toward man.
We are the United States Government! We don't do that sort of thing.
People can and do sue the USPTO.
http://www.patentlyo.com/patent/2012/08/suing-the-uspto-to-cancel-improperly-issued-patents.html
I've been on jury duty in a bullshit patent suit, and despite the obvious sane result, the judge's contrived question list ensures you cannot come up with any result other than what (s)he has already determined. There is no "let's discuss this" based on what was presented. Any jury not doing so will be kicked out and the trial starts from fresh.
Meaning a Jury could stall a verdict by doing what is right and debate the issue. correct?
When the guy who invented public key encryption tells you that the basis of the patent had been around for years, that is a failure of the jury in this case.
Except he didn't, and they didn't. Read page two of this article from yesterday about his testimony.
Basically, TQP admits that their patent is obvious in view of a combination of two references, one of which is Diffie's work, and the other of which was some work by Lotus: neither Diffie nor Lotus invented TQP's invention, but if you slap the two together in a reasonable way, they teach everything in TQP's invention, so it's obvious.
Except, Lotus didn't publish their work until after TQP filed their application. And legally, that means it's not prior art, even though they were working on it in secret for some time. In other words, even though someone else invented what they did, it doesn't count, because that someone else kept it secret.
So, Diffie gets on the stand and talks about his work on crypto, which was the first half of TQP's combination. On cross examination, TQP's lawyer points out that he didn't really invent it, did he? And Diffie says that someone else invented what he did, but it doesn't count, because that someone else kept it secret.
So, it sounds like the jury was persuaded by Diffie that TQP's patent was valid.
... but none of it would have happened if they had simply honored their CSRs original promise.
So you caused a company to lose money and you expect them to be happy about it and serve you with a smile? Maybe none of it would have happened if you didn't make the wrong purchase. Have some personal accountability.
I'd probably not allow you to do business with me either if you were making uninformed purchases and returning them *on my dime*. They have every right to charge that 15% restocking fee, and as a Newegg customer, I'm glad my purchases aren't subsidizing your inability to make a sound decision.
Someone flopped a steamer in the gene pool.
The claims weren't really about the encryption. They admitted they did not invent RC4. The claims were about the transactional model (SSL). I still feel it's bogus though, but reading the full articles and history can help.
The real issue may be the locale. Patent trolls love that court house. And no one in the court room was allowed to use the term "patent troll". The juries there seem to love standing up for the little guy who's being bullied by the big company. So the Newegg company and its lawyer, from the distant land of California, versus a locally based company and a lawyer from Dallas. Even the local Marshall Texas newspaper in the article saying that the trial had started took care to point out that the lawyer was from Dallas. Liberal big business California versus local home grown salt of the earth folks.