Slashdot Mirror
Is the Porsche Carrera GT Too Dangerous?
Hugh Pickens DOT Com writes "CNN reports that the 600 horsepower Porsche Carrera GT is notoriously difficult to handle, even for professional drivers. Known as the car actor Paul Walker was riding in when he died, there is no suggestion anyone was to blame for Walker's crash but Top Gear's Jeremy Clarkson says drivers are on a 'knife edge' handling the car and described it as 'brutal and savage". 'It is a phenomena — mind blowingly good. Make a mistake — it bites your head off.' Todd Trimble, an exotic car mechanic in Las Vegas, says the Carrera GT is a 'very hard car to drive.' It's (a) pure racer's car. You really need to know what you're doing when you drive them. And a lot of people are learning the hard way.' The sports car has a top speed of 208 mph, a very high-revving V10 engine and more than 600 horsepower says Eddie Alterman, editor-and-chief of Car and Driver magazine. 'This was not a car for novices,' says Alterman. Having the engine in the middle of the car means it's more agile and turns more quickly than a car with the engine in the front or in the rear so it is able to change direction 'very quickly, very much like a race car,' adds Alterman. The Carrera GT is also unusual because it has no electronic stability control which means that it's unforgiving with mistakes. 'Stability control is really good at correcting slides, keeping the car from getting out of shape,' says race car driver Randy Pobst. Alterman concludes that learning to drive a car like a Carrera GT can be extremely tricky. 'Every car is sort of different. And this one, especially since it had such a hair-trigger throttle, because it changed directions so quickly, there is a lot to learn.'"
Yes, but some cars are more forgiving. Some systems have more fault tolerances, have negative feedback loops to limit bad behavior, etc.
A great example is that the car lacked stability control? Can anybody give me a reason not to have stability control where that reasons does not contain “fun” or “because”? (which might be sufficient – just looking for any other reasons.)
You know, some of us remember driving cars that didn't have airbags, antilock brakes, traction control, rear view cameras, auto felch, auto transmission, etc. Neither then nor now were those cars "too dangerous".
Do you even lift?
These aren't the 'roids you're looking for.
Every car behaves differently once it's over the edge.
Porches are notorious for "biting your head off" when you make a mistakes (of course not all of them). But the road is not the place to pull this stunts and if you want an "easy" handling car you should do your homework first.
Besides the Carrera GT is an iconic car and should be kept on a pedestal and not driven on the edge on the roads. Especially if you don't have the skills and the focus required to drive above the edge.
Love many, trust a few, do harm to none.
It's the kind of attitude you'd expect from Jeremy Clakson, an idiot who regularly speeds and sees a fellow idiot crashing at unsafe speeds for public roads as a victim of something other than himself.
You certainly have a point, but supercars at this level can be dangerous even at legal speeds.
At low speeds, these cars have two particular challenges for the driver; a huge amount of torque in the lower gears and a lack of the downforce that they rely upon for stability. You need an absolute feather touch on the accelerator or you will spin out - and this is much more likely to happen at 40mph than 140mph.
This isn't a touring car like an Aston DB series or a lower end Porsche. Those are designed to be a pleasant high-end driving experience - not to provide maximum performance. The Carrera GT is effectively a road-going version of a full-fledged race car and, as such, needs a lot of skill to drive safely under any conditions. Personally, I'm not sure why you'd even want to take one onto normal roads; the concentration and restraint needed to keep it under control must surely make it much less fun than taking out a more normal high-performance car and letting it rip.
And blaming the driver. A little background. While not professional drivers Walker and the driver were on a race team together and did plenty of circuit races. The guy driving has a GT3 so is more than familiar with the class of cars in question. Each had many more hours logged racing than any pilot would have flying before being able to get his flight license. It's easy to blame the driver, and it could rightly end up that way. However, the question of whether the car malfunctioned or should not be considered street legal should also be asked. Point being, if you believe these guys had no business driving this car then nobody shy of an F1 driver should be able to by them, hence they are too dangerous to sell to the general public.
Technically quite dangerous. Imagine you are riding a powerful motorcycle well within the speed limit, if you crank the throttle too much when cornering you will slip as many novice riders will tell you is their worst fear. Without ESP and without any other help that Porsche basically lays the same power into your hands. It could probably even spin on the spot like the old 911s did if you let go of the clutch too quickly. A "hair trigger" gas pedal and "it bites your head off" for mistakes means this car needs to be handled correctly regardless of speed.
This boils down to: if the driver wants to drive a Carrera GT because he thinks it is "cool" then they should only hand them to you if you have the necessary training; if you don't, well then it should be mandatory ESP and other stabilizing chips to keep novice drivers from killing themselves and others. This is probably a very European way of viewing things but I stand by it. You don't hand a loaded gun to a kid who has no idea about gun safety.
Don't get me wrong, I fully blame the driver for obviously being unable to handle his car but I think before handing people a car like that you should make sure they are able to drive it and understand their ride because they are putting other drivers and pedestrians in danger as well.
"Only one thing is impossible for God: To find any sense in any copyright law on the planet." - Mark Twain
How about, "because this car was built in 2005, when ESC was new and didn't make sense on a sports car"?
Gamingmuseum.com: Give your 3D accelerator a rest.
I as an enthusiast car driver wish I could buy cars with less safety equipment. There is actually a demand for that sort of thing because they're faster, better handling and yes, more fun. The drawback is, you must know what you're doing.
The problem is that if you're driving an unsafe vehicle on public roads, you're not just putting your own life at risk, but that of other drivers (and pedestrians) as well. You might be willing to take the risk of not having Electronic Stability Control and anti-lock braking, but why should the other people on the roads have to put up with the unnecessarily increased risk that you'll crash into them?
"...there is no suggestion anyone was to blame for Walker's crash..." unless you follow that link which says that the police suspect that speed was involved. No question that anyone not in the car was to blame is a different sentence indeed. Looking at the pictures of the scene its hard to imagine that they were driving anywhere close to the 45mph speed limit.
And later they estimate the car was going 40-45mph. http://www.nbcnews.com/entertainment/paul-walker-was-real-hero-daughter-heart-soul-his-charity-2D11683842
How about waiting until the investigation is complete before jumping to conclusions? The police comment on random shit just to comment in cases like these. For some reason nobody considers "I have no idea, we're still investigating" an appropriate answer.
Driven under normal conditions, other than the extremely touchy clutch at launch, there's nothing difficult or dangerous about it. The vehicle belongs to my uncle, and in the proper settings is a blast to drive. But, you have to know that when someone hands you the keys to 600hp, and more torque than anyone rationally needs, you have to respect it. My daily drive is a 470hp Charger SRT8, but even with that, I was amazed what a kick in the pants the Porsche is.
Just another day in Paradise
This is a known drawback of ABS -- longer stopping distances in snowy conditions. You actually stop faster if the wheels are allowed to lock up, because the tires effectively become plow blades and a wedge of snow accumulates in front of each, helping to slow you down. This doesn't happen if the tires never stop rotating. http://www.tc.gc.ca/eng/motorvehiclesafety/tp-tp13082-abs2_e-215.htm
I thought snow was like gravel, in that you will stop faster by locking up the wheels and piling up some snow in front of them, rather than trying to stop the wheels from locking up? On the other hand, slowing down slowly can be safer than slowing down more quickly with no directional control, so it is rarely a better way out of trouble. Additionally a snowy road very quickly turns to ice once a few cars have packed the snow down hard, which changes the physics substantially.
A. The enthusiast is purchasing the vehicle. As long as he or she is following the rules of the road, and his or her vehicle meets the safety standards for the year of manufacture, there should be no problem. B. It is up to each driver to decide what risk is necessary. It is a system you accept the risks of when you buy into it. Should you wish to reduce these risks, you should contact your elected officials. Once again, the lack of stability control should be a moot point when someone is driving legally. If there is a circumstance where someone has lost control, it is likely that broken equipment or broken laws were involved. C. The enthusiast should not be driving at unsafe speeds on public roadways. Period. If they have done so, they will have to take responsibility for their actions. This is one reason vehicular manslaughter statues exist in many states. It allows vehicles to be classified as deadly weapons, thus making it easier to convict. Sadly, the people who can afford these vehicles can often afford a good lawyer and somehow get off with probation.