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Switzerland Wants To Become the World's Data Vault
wiredmikey writes "Business for Switzerland's 55 data centers is booming. They benefit from the Swiss reputation for security and stability, and some predict the nation already famous for its super-safe banks will soon also be known as the world's data vault. For example, housed in one of Switzerland's numerous deserted Cold War-era army barracks, one high-tech data center is hidden behind four-ton steel doors built to withstand a nuclear attack — plus biometric scanners and an armed guard. Such tight security is in growing demand in a world shaking from repeated leaks scandals and fears of spies lurking behind every byte."
What is to say that their agency similar to the NSA will not be over all the stored data like a fat kid over cupcakes? It is great intel, especially if it comes to economic or commercial stuff.
IMHO, I don't care if they store data in the vaults of Mordor... I care about what these firms offer for a SLA, and what happens to the data if the company folds or sells out.
Here in the US, in theory, the physical servers (and their SAN backends) should be blanked, but if not and the data passes through to another party, that party holding the servers owns that data free and clear. A bank's private records could be available as a torrent, or the new server owner could legally charge a previous client of the folded firm for access to their files. Perhaps even make the files public unless a "reclamation fee" was paid.
Good luck keeping guys with tens of thousands of exploits out of it
Spies don't have to crack them if they're financial based businesses like banks. Every time the IRS expresses an "interest" in the account information, they roll over on their backs. I would expect no less from them if any other three letter agency wanted more information, especially if any of those "interests" involved doing business with the US.
Never have a philosophy which supports a lack of courage
Because no country existing outside of a dystopic novel has anything comparable to the NSA. Inb4 China: China's massive espionage ends at their borders, outside there it's just the usual, they don't even monitor WoW despite the risk of gnome terrorists.
Three more Swiss banks join US tax deal - Reuters - 12 hours ago.
Swiss banks are supposedly the safest place to store money, If the Swiss are willing to share customer data with the US, what else can't they share?
Just another tentacle of the Nothing is beyond our reach motto.
All will be fine until 10 years from now, when the Swiss will be accused of hoarding Jewish BitCoin from Holocaust survivors....
That I'm right, and you don't like it, doesn't mean I'm a troll.
The solution to data longevity is such things as:
-Redundant storage
-Globally distributed storage
-Fragmentation and reassembly of data (so no host is responsible for content, since it is all just fragments)
-A protocol whereby the network monitors how many copies of a datum there are and creates more copies if it can't find enough.
-A protocol that automatically migrates data fragements to both newer host storage and more reliable host storage gradually over time.
-Re-wrappable encryption protocol
-Onion routing for access
-An economic model such as quid pro quo storage sharing (you store some of anonymous others' fragments, they store some of yours, no money exchanged.
-Storage of metadata and programming language execution environments and programs (with instructions) along with data
Where are we going and why are we in a handbasket?
The Swiss banks are not secret anymore. The laws changed and the NSA and GCHQ monitors all SWIFT and other transfers as well.
Excuse me, but please get off my Pennisetum Clandestinum, eh!
Despite everything said in recent months, all the evidence from security experts suggests social engineering is the number one weakness. Network and host security are closing the gap, sure, but unless you plan to go EAL7 - which you can do with a general-purpose OS if you've money to burn - there is nothing that can be trusted.
Nothing? An early backdoor for AT&T Unix was built into the compiler, but it could just as easily have been in any library the compiler used. Auditing the Linux kernel would be bad enough, auditing GCC, glibc and all the maths libraries used by the optimizer? Even with an army of testers and coders, you'd be dead of old age before securing that lot against accidental and deliberate exploits that may arise in code other than that tested.
(By an army, I mean 100,000 dedicated, skilled people would be capable of getting a specific Linux kernel watertight after about 1.5 years on the first go. Each iteration would take less, such that the series would be convergent, but you'd always lag by several months. With the compiler and libraries, the interactions are too severe and there's too much code. You could never get it watertight and the series would diverge because complexity would increase exponentially but verification would be linear.)
I would love to see a company on that scale set up for the sole purpose of finding and fixing Linux bugs. I would also love next week's lottery numbers, a girlfriend, a cuddly toy, a chip fabrication plant and something that can make proper tea. (Cue Bruce Forsyth)
Realistically, I have to limit myself to visions of provably secure kernel components, with the rest of the kernel, and the rest of the OS, being either insecure or half-inched from OpenBSD.
It's a small world and it smells funny; I'd buy another if it wasn't for the money; Take back what I paid (SoM)
The swiss numbered account as a bastion of privacy is a thing of the past. The swiss turn over bank information on request to the US. Why on earth would we even begin to trust them with our data? That's no better than giving it directly to the NSA to begin with.
They already caved to the IRS. Why would we expect them not to cave to the NSA?
We need an organization with the stones to hold the line. The swiss have made it clear that they won't go to bat for anyone else... even their own clients/customers. So... that is over.
We need to see some one out there willing to sacrifice to hold the line. I want to see a group that has their feet held to the fire until they crisp... and yet not break.
Sound extreme? Its an extreme game. The swiss bankers are clearly weasels. They'll protect your identity and money so long as its easy and they're not challenged. They're fair weather players. They play when the sun is shining and the winds are calm. But when all hell breaks lose... they'll abandon you to be torn apart by jackals. And we can get that kind of service from any data host on earth. Why bank my data with the Swiss? Anything special about them? The days of numbered bank accounts were clearly just an illusion. We believed they would protect us and they charged us extra for our belief.
All that is gone. If the swiss want this role... they'll have to show themselves willing to eat some pain for it. Will they suffer so much as the displeasure of the EU or US?
No... the only protection will be the deep web. Bury the servers so deep that the authorities can't find it. Then its safe.
Short of that... its all self deception.
I've decided to stop wasting my time responding to AC trolls/sockpuppets... so if you want a response from me... login.
Here's one Swiss hoping we can vote FATCA down a black hole.
Our government sees itself in a difficult situation: we are very dependent on open trade agreements, not least because we are physically surrounded by the EU. So our government rolls over any time open trade is threatened. Many of us think they need to take a harder line. For example, the agreement with the EU requires us to accept essentially unlimited numbers of immigrants - what sovereign country would ever sign away the right to determine its own immigration policy. Now we that we have the issue with FATCA, there is at least a chance that the population will tell the government that it has gone too far.
Enjoy life! This is not a dress rehearsal.
Many are saying that the banks bent to the US, so the data-centers will too. However, there are a few problems with this comparison and I think it needs to be pointed out that it's quite a different case.
So Switzerland has had strong bank secrecy laws for years. Also, for years these bank secrecy laws have been heavily critisized all around the world. And for years Switzerland has made a lot of money with them, because clients used Swiss banks to avoid taxes, 'possibly' money laundering and such. So these laws have been looked at as rather negative.
So then the financial crisis hit and all of a sudden all the nations were looking for quick and easy money. The US, Germany and many more. Well, it turns out that you can quickly make some money by simply collecting all these taxes that you've missed out on for years. And I mean these clients that tried to avoid taxes by putting their money into Swiss banks simply did something illegal.
So the banks were pressured very hard to release the information. And banks are a very very big deal in Switzerland. I mean the UBS is huge for Switzerland. It's simply the 'too-big-to-fail' company in Switzerland. In order to 'save' the banking business Switzerland didn't have much of a choice then to simply give in.
Now le'ts look at the situation with data-centers:
Firstly, they're far far away from being as big and important as the banks. If the trend keeps going then they will gain importance, but I doubt that data-centers will ever deal with as much money as banks.
Secondly, the privacy laws in Switzerland are not looked at as negative. Instead they're looked at as highly positive and this only got stronger with snowden's leak.
So with the bank secrecy laws it was like the world vs Switzerland. With the privacy laws it's more like the world behind Switzerland vs the US.
Of course with the privacy laws there is the problem that a lot of piracy may happen in those data-centers and that might give the US some attack surface. E.g. the Swiss based firm rapidshare gets under a lot of pressure because of that. But that can still be solved separately from privacy and I don't believe it's comparable to the bank secrecy situation.
And a word about the Swiss intelligence service: Compared to the NSA it's joke.
Obviously the funding of the two isn't comparable at all. The local laws are completely different (we don't have any kind of patriot act).
Yeah, NSA may be more pervasive worldwide, but if you truly believe China's espionage efforts aren't also focused outside of their country, I know someone with some prime marshland you might be interested in.
Yes, China does spy on people.
But at the very least, China does not do that and then say to the world "The world should THANK US for keeping them safe".
I was from China. In fact, I ran away from China. I dislike China's communist party as much as anybody else, and I am a naturalized American citizen.
But still, fair is fair.
While what NSA did technically was not that much different from what others do (which includes democratic countries such as England, Australia, Canada, New Zealand and France), morally, the United States government has sunk lower than that of China !
China steals others secret but never pretend to be THE PROTECTOR, unlike the Hussein (aka Barry Soetoro) Barack Obama Administration of the United States of America !
Now, about that piece of marshland, I think you can keep it.
Muchas Gracias, Señor Edward Snowden !
Swiss banks turn over your information to foreign governments on request. Once upon a time funds in a Swiss account were protected from random states opinions about what was or was not a crime. Now the swiss hand over data to the US on a routine basis.