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Google's Dart Becomes ECMA's Dart
mikejuk writes "Google's Dart just reached version 1.0, but now it seems that it has aspirations to being an international standard. The question is will this make any difference to the language's future? Given that Google effectively owns Dart, what advantage does standardization bring? The answer to what Google thinks it brings is indicated in the Chromium blog: 'The new standardization process is an important step towards a future where Dart runs natively in web browsers.' and this seems reasonable. A standard is something that would be required before other browser makers decided to fall in line and support native Dart. It is probably a necessary but far from sufficient condition, however, with Microsoft, Apple and Mozilla having other interests to further. Last but not least, having the backing of a standard might just encourage possible users to believe that the language won't sink if Google gets distracted with other projects and decides that Dart is dispensable. However, a strong open source development community capable of supporting Dart without Google's input would be a better reassurance. If you want to help, Google would like you to join the committee. After all, it still doesn't have a Vice Chair. So can we expect to see ECMA CoffeeScript or TypeScript in the near future? Probably not."
http://www.bing.com/search?q=google+dart
Go find an open source project that actually matters.
Dart is Google's attempt to replace Javascript. They're doing this because Javascript is a shitty language.
Earlier versions of C# are also an ECMA standard, but nobody cares either way. It's like looking for a sales bullet point which doesn't make any practical difference.
Dart is Google's attempt to replace Javascript. They're doing this because Javascript is a shitty language.
They're doing this because:
- they are going to try to monetize it.
- they can't get developers to write stuff for ChromiumOS if it only runs on ChromiumOS.
- it will natively search and report on your web pages.
- their 'Go' language didn't go anywhere.
- Google has an inherent need to have some sort of impact on (and therefore control over) whatever anyone does on the internet.
- releasing version 1.0 means a Google product is finally out of perpetual beta.
Unless they can get Mozilla on board, It's just not enough.
I don't much like Javascript, but I haven't taken the time to look Dart over.
I do think the word standard should be better standardized.
Fifty years of Yippie! 1968-2018
WTF is bing.com? Is it the new goats.cx? I am not checking it until the comment get moderated.
- they can't get developers to write stuff for ChromiumOS if it only runs on ChromiumOS.
- their 'Go' language didn't go anywhere.
These two pretty much cover it.
#DeleteChrome
That and Javascripts has so many holes in it, considering Google's solution is about the same, I would agree to dump the project to the community where it may be more trusted. Part of the problem is Google has abused open source and continues to do so. And as the story mentions Google isn't to be trusted, they seem to have nothing but a mad scientist scheme behind everything they do.
If you like Java and can’t get yourself to like JavaScript, you program Dart.
If you like Ruby and can’t get yourself to like JavaScript, you program CoffeeScript.
If you like JavaScript, you program JavaScript.
source
Google is gaining way too much power over what you over the internet.
The Internet is NOT google. They, Google, came along and appropriated a lot.
And oh ueah, have yet to really show there is no partnership with others who might
do user tracking not through software but through hardware.
Listen: Google has NOT been in class with you!
Oh, and all you MicroSofties: don't bother to chime in. I'm calling a spade a spade
and you better not like it.
It's Microsoft's attempt to mirror Google.com.
Help stamp out iliturcy.
I'm pretty sure the number of ads on that "I Programmer" page exceeds the limit Google specifies in their AdSense guidelines.
#DeleteChrome
+1 for this excellent list. As a web developer I have no interest in figuring out a new language when Javascript has all the potential in the world.
No... Dart is a shitty language. javascript is a web scripting language, albeit one that lacks the OOP syntactic sugar Java and C# weenies enjoy circle jerking over.
I was going to learn Spanish a couple of years back but instead I invented a whole new language called 'Spanglish' that is basically English with some Spanish words. Can't believe that people are still speaking Spanish. I'm going to have myself a nerdy little tantrum about that any second now...
Obviously, given Google's product areas, an improved replacemen for javascript is not exactly altruism. However, do you have any evidence to the effect that 'Dart' advances Google's control except by making 'web apps' better and/or easier?
Any sign of them attempting to make Dart Chromium-only or somehow favored by Chromium's architecture in a way that will freeze out IE and FF? Any dependence on the mothership implied by either a dart-language program or support for dart in a browser or elsewhere?
"I don't much like Javascript" translates to "I know very little or nothing about Javascript and I'm unwilling to learn".
There - how about some honesty?
PS: Obligatory link: http://www.youtube.com/results?search_query=douglas%20crockford&sm=3
The main problem with Go was, ironically, that it was ungoogleable.
However, do you have any evidence to the effect that 'Dart' advances Google's control except by making 'web apps' better and/or easier?
Their products are the only ones supporting it?
It compiles to Javascript. Are you saying other browsers don't support Javascript?
Dart is available under the BSD 3-Clause license, so if they are poisoning the well for other adopters, it's by subtler means, and 'dart2js' is designed to do exactly what it sounds like, for compatibility with any remotely recent JS implementation.
I'm not seeing the lock-in here, though they haven't stirred enough buzz to get it more widely adopted.
Again, I hardly suspect them of altruism; but they don't seem to think that they have the power to push a 'Google only' JS replacement, and so would rather try to improve webapps generally, even on competitors' browsers, as a strategic move against platform-native applications.
Javascript is a shitty language. It has full object support, just based on prototypes instead of something sane. I do not know what it is about web "developers" that makes them like shitty languages like PHP and javascript, but they are. Aside from very poorly definitions of "standard" functions, both have so many side effects and scoping issues that it's a wonder anything ever got written with them. Not that anyone writes stuff based on javascript's "standard" library. No, you NEED to use a third party cross platform lib like jquery because the language is so poorly implemented too.
Javascript was an accident. It wasn't and isn't particularly suited to ANY task, let alone the web. People have hacked together some decent solutions, but the fact remains that js's design has been an anchor around web browsers and web development in general.
Not saying dart is any good either, but that doesn't make javascript good.
So, here is the high level idea (despite the danger of inviting Prolog zombies I'll be using its syntax for the Horn Clause):
The Idea
Parallelism spawns independent computations.
The Horn Clause:
m(A,B,C):-x(A),y(B),z(C).
expresses AND parallelism spawning 3 independent computations.
The Horn Clause document:
m(A):-x(A). m(A):-y(A). m(A):-z(A).
expresses OR parallelism spawning 3 independent computations.
In an operating system, parallel computations are scheduled for execution, allocating resources according to priorities.
There are also computations which cannot be scheduled until the computations upon which they depend complete. The Horn Clause document:
m(A,B,C):-m(A),m(B),m(C). m(A):-x(A). m(A):-y(A). m(A):-z(A).
expresses 3 AND parallel computations, each depending on 3 independent OR parallel computations.
This kind of data-dependency suspension of scheduling is also handled by operating systems.
By focusing on these constructs:
a radical reduction in semantic complexity can be realized.
Tools
Seymour Cray once said that much of engineering creativity comes from using old tools in never-before intended ways. The same is true of anything. New understanding of a thing's use is a way to create a new tool. Indeed, even when creating a new thing-in-itself as a tool (the ordinary means of creating a new tool), what comes first is its desired use. It is harmful to think about the fact that your hammer can be used as a paper-weight when you are pounding a nail into a piece of wood with a rock.
With that in mind, let us properly-use the Horn Clause:
Seastead this.
I want to say I like Dart. I have translated some of my javascript stuff over to see how it compares. In many ways it is a big improvement. However, it still does things I hate about javascript. They are things that other people love like "you don't have to add semicolons but can but don't have to" or "functions in curly brackets with functions in curly brackets with functions... ad nauseam". They are all things I find to make code too difficult to read. I like the idea of the VM being in the browser but I do not like it limited to new languages. The browser that allows me to write in C or C++ syntax will get some SERIOUS love from me. Even if it is like Dart's side functionality, converts it to javascript. I'd love to see Perl, Python, or Ruby run without a separate engine.
Having to work for a living is the root of all evil.
People keep coming up with alternatives to javascript. Everything from whole languages that compile down to javascript, to building new languages into the browser, to javascript supersets, to plugins that makes your browser run compiled code. Not a single one of these caught on. The REAL problem is the DOM, the CSS and how they interact with each other. Javascript is a bad language, but it's not awful. What makes web development awful is the DOM and CSS with all its crazy and cross-browser incompatibilities. Why no one tries to replace THAT? I'm almost implementing myself a new api that runs on top of a 100% width/height canvas tag for christ sake.
I'm not familiar with the Qt but QML ( http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/QML ) looks pretty good to me. Why can't browsers just implement that? Oh right, because it was not developed by google/m$/apple/mozilla so they can't guide it to the directions they want. Noooo, you have to have a completely new language that no one knows.
If they want to replace javascript so much why don't they just take the python or ruby runtime, bundle it to the browser, sandbox it and add DOM mappings?
We see new languages all the time, most of them don't stand the test of time or are supplanted by others as time goes on -- but at this point there is a ton of industry experience in supporting a standardized Virtual Machine language / architecture / (whatever you want to call it). There's Sun/Oracle's JVM, along with several other implementations of this VM interface. The JVM will support any number of languages that target it. Microsoft has done this as well with their CLR (Common Language Runtime) as part of .NET. The web already has the "Object Model / Standard Library" end of things, the DOM, it just needs a virtual machine standard and then web developers could bring, port or invent the language of their choice.
Dallas Area Rapid Transit
But seriously, I'm a full-time Dart developer, and Google knew damn well that was a bad name for SEO, but they picked it anyway. Fuck them for making searching for help with their language impossible with their own search engine. I thought the asinine name Go taught them a lesson, but instead they decide to fuck over all of us again by not allowing us to search. Every single damn day I get angry when I can't search for help with the language.
CoffeeScript is nothing but syntactic sugar. I don't get why people are so excited about it, it is exactly javascript, with a different look. It is not a language of its own, and on top of that, doesn't run natively in its form and makes debugging a pain...
Already exists and is slowly moving forward with almost zero help. Supports many languages already.
http://www.parrot.org/
Democracy Now! - uncensored, anti-establishment news
It needs better software development tools for Go and Dart! Visual Studio is a really good development for Windows! Android Studio is a really good development tool for Android!
Javascript is a fine language. Javascript mostly gets a bad rap from the in browser DOM API (or lack of (thanks web standard politics)); and the fact that developer's only really learn VERY basic Javascript and spend all of their time manipulating the shitty browser DOM. I mean no one would like python, C, Java, etc if all you ever did with it was basic XML manipulation.
Go checkout Nodejs or some other non-browser implementation of Javascript. It's a really remarkable language.
P.S. saying it's the way it handles object generation is not sane is very wrong; in a fully interpreted language doing the object generation from a prototype allows flexability that traditional class definitions just won't allow, and is really the only sane way you can do it. And you can do things that blow Java/C++ developers' minds.
Lots of people don't like how Google is handling the integration of all their services, including social media. Certainly I'm not a fan of the whole "real name" thing, having been online for so long I know how that story ends. But what to do? They work in a world where this is how to succeed. For some things like social media real names work. For passionate discourse there are still forums where you can use your "handle" like in days of yore.
At least here is not another example of Microsoft's "stacked panels" from when they got their byzantine document formats accepted as an international standard.
BTW: some AC troll is trying to make me look bad by counter-replying in threads I comment in. That wasn't me, obviously.
Help stamp out iliturcy.
As far as i'm concerned, websites have little business using Javascript to start with. Now they want to add more? Sounds like Java to me which is for making applications, not websites.
If your site needs native performance then write a native application.
Anons need not reply. Questions end with a question mark.
I do not know what it is about web "developers" that makes them like shitty languages like PHP and javascript...
As one of these developers, I would like to hear your suggestions on what language I should use instead of Javascript to modify web content without forcing a page reload. Should I port all my stuff to Flash?
Someone flopped a steamer in the gene pool.
You got a stalker too? Welcome to the club, mine comes and goes, and has followed me all over the net. It is one of the reasons why i think ACs should be banned or at the very least make it trivial for users to block AC posts in the formatting. After all if they are too damned lazy to spend a whole 3 minutes making an account, can be as anon (by filling it in with BS) as the AC but would make them stand by their posts? then they are trolls and not worth wasting time with.
How does having an AC stalker affect you in any way on slashdot? Just ignore them....
There are also decent reasons for not logging in everywhere.
Their image search seems to be better at giving you what you are looking for which probably ties to
I agree with this. Bing is a lot better than Google for image search; the results are more relevant but also the GUI is better.
Lately I found out that the maps are also better on Bing. The new Google maps is retarded; when I search for something nearby like a Starbucks it shows some random results that are pretty far, and when I try to get directions between two cities the first option they give is a flight... When I want to fly from one city to another I go on Expedia or Delta; what are the odds that I would use Google map for that? That's the kind of "feature" that people with too much time on their hands come up with.
Google search is still better but Microsoft is catching up pretty fast on various areas where Google used to dominate. Not so long ago Chrome was so much better than IE, now it's not that obvious. Same for Gmail vs Hotmail, or Google Apps vs Office365. It's like Google is dumbing down their products and is focusing on the ads business while Microsoft is rolling out improved stuff all the time. One does not need to be a Microsoft shill to see that.
Now if Microsoft could either bring back the Start button or fix the search in Windows 8.1 it would help make these claims more convincing...
lucm, indeed.
As a web developer, I'm quite excited for Google Dart and am interested in seeing where it leads; I'm not sure what's with all the bashing about it, except out of pure ignorance. Javascript is a very useful and neat, but rather strange language, riddled with tricks, "gotchas", and downright strange behavior. I do use it on a daily basis, and I've learned to love it (the NPM ecosystem is wonderful), but I wouldn't go so far to call it a good language in and of itself. That's why things like Typekit and Coffeescript exist. Dart looks like it'll bring more structured programming into the web (along with some performance gains). I've not yet jumped into it - learning Python at the moment - but am excited to do so, and I think it has potential.
Didn't you get the memo? classes reinforce outdated gender roles by telling an object what to do. Objects should be equals and ask instead of tell.
Do you even lift?
These aren't the 'roids you're looking for.
Implicit semicolons. '5' + 3 gives '53' whereas '5' - 3 gives 2. I tried to include the famous Javascript truth table. Look it up. Including it in the post just triggered the junk filter, but it's hilarious. Javascript manages to be chock full of wtf even without the DOM at all. I always wished that Python would show up in the browser at some point. Once apon a time, the idea of genuinely novel scripting languages for web pages actually seemed plausible. (Remember vbscript web pages?) I guess there is so much legacy JS now that it's just the way things work and we'll never be completely rid of it.
One does not need to be a Microsoft shill to see...
Okay, so you're beholden to them for some reason other than material compensation. Thanks for making that clear.
Idiots have posted more clever versions of this lame accusation countless times over the last 14 years. Is your life that pathetic that you find it entertaining to be an incompetent copycat?
This being said, it's interesting to see that the level of bitching against IT companies on Slashdot is basically proportional to the median employee tenure in those companies (Microsoft = 4 years, Apple = 2 years, Google = 1 year, Amazon = 0.8 year). While a lot of people dream of working at Google, the company actually has a higher turnover rate than the Family Dollar Store... no wonder that they can't keep up with the competition.
lucm, indeed.
And just because a language doesn't fit your view of the perfect programming language doesn't make it shit. I think these days it's equally trendy to write js code and bash javascript. Some do both.
Curiously yours, crip.
Personally I think Microsofts typescript idea is the best I've seen. Compiles to JavaScript, looks like a modern OOP language, tracks the next version of JavaScript fairly well, has a great IDE available with code completion, and is compatible with pre-existing JavaScript libraries.
Over the last 10 years, Microsoft has hired more people than Google's current headcount.
People who bring up growth to explain high turnover at Google are like those Apple marketing magicians who sweep their shrinking market share under the carpet and pretend that what matters is that average users spend more time using iPhones than Androids on a daily basis.
lucm, indeed.
+1 parent informative. IMO.
Every trollism an AC posts is prefixed, in my mind, with "A. Coward whined, in a weak and cowardly voice:"
You are the reason for my new sig.
Every trollism an AC posts is prefixed, in my mind, with "A. Coward whined, in a weak and cowardly voice:"
What matters to who? What matters to Apple -- a profit seeking entity --is how much money it makes selling iPhones. Which currently is more than the rest of the cell phone industry combined.
http://appleinsider.com/articles/13/11/14/apple-samsung-take-massive-109-of-mobile-industry-profits-while-competitors-lose-money
What matters to developers is where they can make the most money -- which is on iOS users.
http://www.businessinsider.com/google-play-revenue-pales-in-comparison-to-app-store-2013-10
So exactly who is market share important to?
How did "market share" help Dell, HP, Gateway, and the other titans of the PC industry? How are they doing now?
Name one....I'm waiting. You can't, and I know you can't because I have had several make the same case and when i ask them to name? nada. Look if they demanded proof that what you put in wasn't bullshit? THEN you'd have a point, but I have a buddy who is a 55 year old redneck whose profile says he's a 33 year old Swedish Cook named inga so its not like you have to put a damned thing real about yourself, okay? Think of it like a captcha, if they are too fucking LAZY to take a whole 3 minutes to fill in some made up bullshit to get an ID? Then they are probably trolls and should be told to fuck off anyway.
As for what it effects...dude look at the VERY FIRST THING you had to say to me, you had to waste a paragraph explaining you're being stalked! The problem is AC accounts are VERY useful at derailing conversations, and more and more you are seeing corps and those with an agenda do just that. You post anything anti-gov, or anti-big corp here? And watch how quickly your signal gets fucking tsunami by a tidal wave of AC posts doing everything from posting insane conspiracy theories to outright racism, just to derail the discussion. And you know what? It works a good 9 times out of 10, as soon the discussion is controlled by AC posts instead of legit users.
You can say I'm paranoid but pay close attention to your stalker, does he always chime in when you are posting on a certain subject? Does he seem to get nastier when you are writing anything negative about that subject? Because I have noticed I can post about games, MP3 players, trucks, and nothing. I say anything negative about Google,MSFT, or Apple? hello Mr Stalker who will then follow me around for a couple of days, across multiple websites BTW, and do his/her damnedest to derail any conversation i have.
You may THINK you are too small a fish to be targeted like that but from what I have seen the past few years, talking to dozens of folks across multiple tech sites? Well its really not hard to spot a pattern here. Do you have more than 25 fans/friends on Slashdot? More than 50? These are the kinds of metrics that re used to decide who needs to be STFU. I'd strongly suggest you start paying more attention to your stalker, you may learn more than you think.
ACs don't waste your time replying, your posts are never seen by me.
How did "market share" help Dell, HP, Gateway, and the other titans of the PC industry? How are they doing now?
Funny that you bring this up. Sales of PC from Dell and HP are actually improving while Macbooks sales are dwindling. Look at IDC latest numbers.
As Mark Twain would say: the reports of the death of PC have been greatly exaggerated.
lucm, indeed.
I never said that the PC is dead. But chasing volume on low margin products is not a recipe for success. Dell went private at a value that was 1/20th of Apple's market cap, HP's PC business is so bad that even when they were the number one PC maker, they were trying to get rid of their PC business. Even now their revenues and profits pale in comparison to Apple and are worth about a 10th of what Apple is worth in terms of market share.
Anything that Google tries to standardize with ECMA is going to become more controlled by Microsoft. Aside from this, ECMA is a European standards group (sort of). Their "standards" usually contain patented technology that then must be licensed (usually from Microsoft). I think it might suit Google's purposes better to form a working group and create a standard themselves that they can keep out of Microsoft's hands.
There is no doubt that Apple is immensely successful, but don't get confused by market cap numbers. When Dell went private, they had assets valued around 45-50 billions, for a market cap of about half that value. Apple is currently close to the 500 billions market cap but has less than half that in assets (closer to 1/3).
The market cap number is meaningless because it does not bring money to the company once the IPO is completed. The only impact of the share price is that shareholders who want to increase the value of their investments typically put pressure on the CEO to make decisions that will bring the share price higher in the short term. That's the reason why Dell went private; they wanted to switch the focus on enterprise products and services but this takes time and they were getting distracted by shareholders short-term objectives. This is also probably the reason why Apple is not releasing more innovative products but is focusing on milking their existing cash cows like the iPhone. It takes quite a spine to weather the storm of unhappy shareholders when you take months or years to build a disruptive product - and I believe that this was the true value of Steve Jobs, much more than his design skills.
Another example of the irrelevance of market cap as an indicator of value: Tesla market cap is currently 1/3 of Ford market cap, yet Tesla is losing 400 millions a year while Ford is making 5 billions. Or look at Twitter: their market cap is 15x higher than the New-York Times market cap, yet they have never made a single dollar in profit while the NYT made about 130 millions this year and has been in business for more than 150 years.
lucm, indeed.
Okay, let's ignore market cap in determining how well a company is doing and let's look at profit.
I've already posted a link showing despite Apple's "market share", it's profit in the cell phone business is higher than every other vendor combined. But let's look at the profitability of Apple compared to those companies who chased after market share in the PC industry by cutting prices......
Fortune 500 2013
http://money.cnn.com/magazines/fortune/fortune500/2013/full_list/
Apple - $41.73 billion
Microsoft - $16.9 billion
Dell - $2.73 billion.
HP - negative 12.75 billion.
So Apple's profit was also 15x higher than Dell's.
So the question remains, why is seeking "market share" more important to a profit seeking company than....profit.
While I wouldn't dare say that there is no disruptive innovation left. What tech segment could possible be more profitable than the cell phone industry?
The cell phone industry is the perfect industry. There are over 6.7 billion cell phone subscriptions worldwide and about 4.3 billion unique subscribers (http://communities-dominate.blogs.com/brands/2013/03/the-annual-mobile-industry-numbers-and-stats-blog-yep-this-year-we-will-hit-the-mobile-moment.html). The average replacement rate is 18 months. What other industry can match those numbers? On top of that in a lot of Apples markets, those phones are sold cheaply with a contract.
What company is doing anything innovative in consumer tech?
Your numbers don't make sense. If there are 4.3 billions cell phone subscribers worldwide and people change their phone every 18 months, this would mean that almost 2 billion new phones are sold every year; yet the cell phone industry has yet to ship 1 billion units in any given year (they hover in the 750-800 million units). Given the current production level, your 4.3 subscribers cannot replace their device more than once every 4 years, which is basically on par with PC evergreening.
The cell phone industry is still in its growth phase but it will soon reach market saturation. Anyone who follows quarterly numbers can already see that because most of the recent growth in the smartphone segment is done at the expense of the feature phone segment and is not in the customer acquisition bucket; once the transition to smartphones is completed you can bet that people will start predicting "the death of smartphones" like they did for the death of PC because morons don't understand that a commodity industry with little or no growth is not the same as a dead industry.
As for pointing the finger at PC vendors who chased the market share by cutting prices: what do you think all the big smartphone players are doing at the moment? Ever heard of the iPhone 5C? Or the low-end Lumias? It's the same thing. And in this cutthroat market Apple is already on the losing side because they can't afford to sell cheap phones (because of brand image as well as production costs) but more and more people can see that a $600 iPhone is not truly worth 4x more than a $150 Lumia WP or LG Android. Which explains why the iPhone took a dive from 45% to a mere 12% market share in less than 2 years.
This does not mean that Apple is dying, but there is a limit to growth and overhype, and we are just starting to see that in their quarterly reports. Ask GM, once the biggest company in the world who now has 1/6 of Apple's assets.
lucm, indeed.
Apple 'a 5c is not cheap. It is still $599 without the carrier subsidy. Apple has been selling last years model for $599 for years.
The iPhone has never had a 48% market share worldwide. It peaked at around 20%. In the first few years it's sales were dwarfed by Nokia globally. There was only one quarter where Apple sold the most smart phones worldwide. That was while Nokia was going down and Samsung was coming up.
You keep focusing on "assets". A company's net worth is not based on assets. No income producing assets are. It's based on the present value of all future expected profits.
In Apple's current markets - mostly where the carrier subsidizes phones - the end user doesn't care about the price. They end up getting a $699 iPhone for the same price as a $450 Android. The carrier pays Apple a higher subsidy.
If Apple just creates a phone with a larger screen, it could take even more market share away from Android in subsidized markets. In the US where the price of the phone is hidden , Apple's been slowly growing market share since it's been on more carriers.
Javascript is a glorious, expressive and straightforward language. Unfortunately, it also allows shitty developers to write shitty code.
You could have fun with this:
C is a glorious, expressive and straightforward language. Unfortunately, it also allows shitty developers to write shitty code.
PHP is a glorious, expressive and straightforward language. Unfortunately, it also allows shitty developers to write shitty code.
Python is a glorious, expressive and straightforward language. Unfortunately, it also allows shitty developers to write shitty code.
C# is a glorious, expressive and straightforward language. Unfortunately, it also allows shitty developers to write shitty code.
BASIC is a glorious, expressive and straightforward language. Unfortunately, it also allows shitty developers to write shitty code.
COBOL is a glorious, expressive and straightforward language. Unfortunately, it also allows shitty developers to write shitty code.
Shitty developers write shitty code in any language :)
NB: This post doesn't reflect my opinions on the qualities of the languages mentioned.
No colour or religion ever stopped the bullet from a gun
site:stackoverflow.com dart
No colour or religion ever stopped the bullet from a gun
Maybe because one is a real statement and one is something you pulled out of your ass that isn't a real statement. Small wonder it doesn't make sense.
JS is like Perl. You *can* write clean code in Perl. You *can* write clean code in Javascript.
But both languages made it very easy to write a huge mess if you don't know what you're doing.
Crockford et al have come up with a bunch of nice conventions which, if you follow them, facilitate clean JS code. But browsers don't enforce those conventions; most programmers don't get exposed to them, and they end up writing horrible code.
There's a sweet spot between a language being too restrictive, and being so loose that it steers you into writing badly structured code. JS is too far into the loose side.
But I agree, with discipline, or the right tools, you can write great JS.
Strong with the FUD you are, my dear AC.
No colour or religion ever stopped the bullet from a gun
Thank you for posting. I know that, while you are a GOOG employee, you're not any variation on Community Outreach, and posting here presumably represents your own personal time. I have been following the development of these technologies but not closely enough to have any appreciation of the issues the GP AC raised, and you have been wonderfully informative. Not that your normal standard is at all bad; you're often a source of fair commentary, and very good at both disclosing and setting aside your biases.
I spent my mod points elsewhere today: you'll have to settle for my paltry accolades. Nevertheless, your efforts are quite appreciated.
Those who advocate genocide deserve every protection afforded by law, and none afforded by common human decency.