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Ask Slashdot: How Would You Secure Your Parents' PC?

Posted by timothy on from the what's-the-late-2013-version? dept.

New submitter StirlingArcher writes "I've always built/maintained my parents' PC's, but as Mum has got older her PC seems to develop problems more readily. I would love to switch her to Linux, but she struggles with change and wants to stay with Vista and MS Office. I've done the usual remove Admin rights, use a credible Internet Security package. Is there anything more dramatic that I could do, without changing the way she uses her PC or enforcing a new OS on her again? One idea was to use a Linux OS and then run Vista in a VM, which auto-boots and creates a backup image every so often. Thanks for any help!"

33 of 408 comments (clear)

  1. MS Security Essentials by csumpi · · Score: 4, Informative

    All you need. Click here.

    1. Re:MS Security Essentials by Brad1138 · · Score: 3, Informative

      Is it any better than Avast(free)? I have been using Avast for years and it seems to work quite well. Most if not all of the online reviews pick Avast over MSSE.

      --
      If you could reason with religious people, there would be no religious people
    2. Re:MS Security Essentials by EuclideanSilence · · Score: 4, Insightful

      My parents computers don't have missile launch codes on them, they don't need to be secure. They need to be recoverable.

      1) Any photos, bookmarks, etc that you want to keep: have a copy of it on a backup DVD
      2) Be able to format and reinstall

      Anything else is just extra.

    3. Re:MS Security Essentials by Ksevio · · Score: 4, Insightful

      It's better in that it stays out of the way a bit more - it updates with Windows Update and doesn't require registration.

    4. Re:MS Security Essentials by Runaway1956 · · Score: 3, Insightful

      Your parent's PC(s) don't hold any credit card numbers, or personal information that might embarrass them? Not even a baby picture of a (gasp) nude child which might mark them as (GASP) pedophiles?

      Sorry, but your assertion is terribly naive.

      --
      "Windows is like the faint smell of piss in a subway: it's there, and there's nothing you can do about it." - Charlie Br
    5. Re:MS Security Essentials by DJRumpy · · Score: 5, Informative

      I would suggest this as well. If she's comfortable with Windows, then make it as safe as possible. Security Essentials has far less risk of throwing a key Windows file into quarantine and hosing the install. It's also far better as far as performance. Ensure she knows how to spot when it has not updated in a while (it happens). Ensure it updates when the PC is likely to be on.

      From there, you need to use a few plugins that will help keep your mother safer online. WOT is an excellent, and low impact plugin that will warn her about known dangerous sites. AdBlock is a must if she's prone to clicking on things she shouldn't.

      If you can swing it, get an SSD, and kill scheduled tasks like defrag, which would no longer be necessary.
      DO schedule checks for updates when she is most likely to be on. Ensure you train her to spot the prompt that updates are needed, and how to install them.
      If she can't deal with the update process, then you should setup some time each week to remote into the PC to do them, and to handle basic maintenance

      For remote fixes, I'd suggest TeamViewer, set to auto-run as a service., with an Admin password setup for yourself.

      I used all of the above steps with my Dad who lives about 2 hours away with decent results for quite a few years until the old XP hardware failed. I should note that I eventually moved him to a Mac mini when his old hardware failed, and when I no longer wanted to pay a hundred bucks for Windows. My dad likes playing games for the most part, and the ecosystem on a Mac made sense for him (app store), while keeping him largely out of trouble.

    6. Re:MS Security Essentials by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 3, Informative

      Not as good as it used to be, we run Forefront which uses the same definitions and have had a number of things get through it as of late.

      MSE used to be good, but MS seems to have really slipped up last couple of years. They have fallen to the bottom of all the tests, that they use to be in the top of, and even if you don't believe in tests, more and more real-world reports of things slipping through, like poster above here. It has gotten so bad that MS themselves now publicly recommend that their customers use additional 3rd party AV. That is pretty damning.

      The test you refer to (not tests) is a notoriously vendor-driven one, which really has no credence with the larger AV community. And there's a bit of misinterpretation; MSE is designed to be compatible with another AV solution, so that the two can coexist. This is made possible by the fact that MSE integrates with Windows as only a Microsoft product could. MS didn't say "don't use our solution all by itself, the MSE r h4x0red!"

      Actually, I refer to tests. I guess you are probably referring to the beating they got in AV-Test, since MS publicly complained about that. But here is another one (look at bottom of graph page 9 or summary of results page 13 - zero stars to MSE). And here is another one, from the test lab used by PC Pro and others (see results page 7 and 8, not good).

      Where did you get the notion that MSE is designed to co-exist with another AV-solution? Microsoft strongly recommends against this, it is the first line in their FAQ. If you have third party AV running when you install MSE it recommends to disable it. Which in almost all cases today would be a downgrade of your protection.

    7. Re:MS Security Essentials by i.r.id10t · · Score: 3, Insightful

      Or even a high speed connection that could be used as part of a botnet?

      Even if all you have installed is a browser, and you have no bookmarks or other personal data, you should keep your box secure to help prevent botnets, spambots, etc.

      --
      Don't blame me, I voted for Kodos
    8. Re:MS Security Essentials by Tom · · Score: 3, Insightful

      1) Any photos, bookmarks, etc that you want to keep: have a copy of it on a backup DVD

      Doesn't work, never has and never will.

      Unless backup is automatic in the background with no user intervention required, regular people will not do backups, period.

      Apple's Time Machine is the biggest leap forward for home-user backup in... well, basically ever. Not because it's a technical marvel (it isn't), but because it's so simple and out-of-the-box that regular users actually use it.

      --
      Assorted stuff I do sometimes: Lemuria.org
  2. If it is simple use by wbr1 · · Score: 4, Insightful

    Like email, browsing, and perhaps some photos and videos, get a tablet. I hate to add to the PC market shrinking (it is my main bread and butter), but a tab is typically simpler, and more than enough for many use cases.
    Additionally, you can root and do a nandroid backup on initial setup as a quick imaging routine in case of problems.
    Disclaimer, I wrote this on the commode with a nexus 7.

    --
    Silence is a state of mime.
    1. Re:If it is simple use by SydShamino · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Sometimes the correct answer to a question is one the asker doesn't want to hear.

      This is the correct answer. Guy should give his mom a tablet for Christmas, for "when you'd rather sit on the sofa than at the computer desk". Six months later, either he'll find it's never used (which means he's just out some money) or that she uses it exclusively (which means the problem is solved, as she's now adapted to another OS - acceptable because it's "on a tablet" instead of another PC OS).

      Tablets are what parents should have been getting in 2000-2005 instead of all the PCs that were used instead, if only they had existed in non-suck forms.

      --
      It doesn't hurt to be nice.
  3. Get them a tablet instead by JoeyRox · · Score: 3, Insightful

    Most people don't need the flexibility and attendant hassles of PCs anymore. Just give them an iPad or Nexus and be done with it.

  4. I switched my mom to Ubuntu 12.04 by nicomede · · Score: 4, Informative

    and she took a few weeks to adapt, now she uses it (mostly) trouble-free. I also enabled Desktop sharing via VNC to avoid driving to her place every time she complains 'I had my icon here and now it's gone' or 'It does not behave as berfore' or 'The menu to send my mails is gone'.
    Her grand-children also spend lots of time on this computer while she takes care of them, and I used to clean lots of malware after them... not anymore.

  5. Linux by used2win32 · · Score: 3, Interesting

    My in-laws were having Windows XP issues, so I upgraded them to Mint. Zero support calls to me since then - and they like it...

    --
    Procrastination; I'll think of a sig tomorrow.
    1. Re:Linux by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Funny

      "Is this how sons-in-law say 'F- You' these days?"
      "Must be!"
      "Don't call him ever again."

    2. Re:Linux by johnnys · · Score: 3, Interesting
      The last time my 82 year old father-in-law visited, he wanted to check some web news sites so I handed him my netbook running Ubuntu. Half an hour later, I told him he was using a Linux system and he was happily surprised since he was used to Win7.

      What I learned at that moment is that IF you provide a good system running Linux and presenting the apps a user needs in a usable way, THEN the user doesn't really care whether it's Linux or whatever. Firefox and Thunderbird and Libre Office really are good enough (or better) for any "normal" user doing "normal" things.

      I haven't converted his home system yet, only because he has a son who does support for him, so it's Not My Problem. :)

      --
      Sometimes the "writing on the wall" is blood spatter...
  6. "frozen" configurations by h00manist · · Score: 5, Informative

    Freeze all system changes except saving into the the documents folder. There are a number of programs to do it, seems the most popular is Deep Freeze. It allows all system changes, but after reboot it is all gone. Some tweaking will allow making a few things persistent, such as the documents.

    http://alternativeto.net/software/deep-freeze/

    --
    Build your own energy sources from scratch. http://otherpower.com/
  7. Hide the IE and MSO icons. by Nutria · · Score: 3, Funny

    Install Firefox, LibreOffice & Thunderbird. Insist that she use them. If she ignores your advice, tell her you can't/won't help her.

    (Living on your own, doing your own laundry and being over age 25 adds necessary gravitas.)

    --
    "I don't know, therefore Aliens" Wafflebox1
  8. Take away administrator rights by EmagGeek · · Score: 5, Interesting

    My mom uses her Win7 machine as a User, and not as an Administrator.

    You can avoid 99% of viruses, phishing, and other BS simply by taking away administrator rights.

  9. Re:They're dead by morari · · Score: 4, Funny

    Bruce Wayne, is that you?

    --
    "He who can destroy a thing, controls a thing." --Paul Atreides, Dune
  10. Firefox + NoScript by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 3, Interesting

    If she already uses Firefox, great, if not, see if she can accept it. If she does, then add NoScript in and pre-configure it to only allow scripts from the sites she visits and their legit links and support sites. Basically, walk through her bookmarks and URL shortcuts and give just enough privileges to make the site load properly. That'll block a lot of the skeevy ads from appearing and protect against the vast majority of X-site scripting. You may still have to deal with new sites "not working" from time to time.

    You may also want to install WOT (Web of Trust) if your existing security package doesn't block dangerous sites. That'll put a big warning screen up on any sites that are recognized as unsafe.

    Also, if you can at least get her to upgrade to Win 7, that should stay in her comfort zone while giving you a few more generations of security updates.

    Unless she absolutely needs it, uninstall Java.

    And finally, since you have her off of Admin rights, I'm assuming you are doing all the administration-otherwise she'll forget some day and go out on the web when logged in as Admin. In that case, you'll have to go over there once a month to update Windows, Firefox, Adobe Flash+Reader and possibly Java. Or at least every three months.

  11. Re:Keep my parents away from it. by crackspackle · · Score: 4, Insightful

    Might wanna take out the CPU as well, just in case.

    One might assume some 35 years after the advent of PC revolution, there are more than a few grey hairs running around like me with infinitely more knowledge on how to secure a computer than some smart mouth tweener. Having spent years securing their computers, I would not trust any child of mine to do a better job than I would and it's time to put the tired meme that kids know tech better than their parents to bed where it belongs.

  12. Re:Keep my parents away from it. by Albanach · · Score: 4, Insightful

    Something like Faronics Deep Freeze might be useful, restoring the computer to a clean slate after each reboot. You still want your usual anti-virus and firewall to protect the machine when it's running, but at least your parents would know that if things break a restart should generally fix everything.

    Leave My Documents and the browser profile unfrozen and set up a regular backup of files written there, taking precautions to make sure the backup isn't susceptible to encryption by ransomware.

  13. Re:Is it as bad a Symantec? by Curunir_wolf · · Score: 5, Funny

    Is it as bad a Symantec?

    No. In fact, I can't really think of anything that is. Maybe there are a few viruses that are as bad.

    --
    "Somebody has to do something. It's just incredibly pathetic it has to be us."
    --- Jerry Garcia
  14. Re:Keep my parents away from it. by Runaway1956 · · Score: 3, Interesting

    Well, actually, if I were to accidentally bump my head or something, and suddenly found myself incapable of administering a computer, I do have one son whom I could trust. The other two are computer nitwits. Not computer illiterates, but nitwits. They KNOW that certain things are dangerous, but they just don't care. The smart mouth tweeners you mention, to be precise.

    --
    "Windows is like the faint smell of piss in a subway: it's there, and there's nothing you can do about it." - Charlie Br
  15. iPad. Seriously. by dawnkelly · · Score: 4, Insightful

    I bought my Mother an iPad 2 years ago. I didn't realize how profound the change over was for her until I saw her helping one of our other relatives with their new iPad. Not only had she mastered her iPad, it made her feel smart again.
    She still has her Vista desktop connected to a printer and uses it when she needs to print or fill out online forms. But that only happens a couple times a year. We even got her a little JBL dock so that she could listen to music last year and she fell in love with the iPad all over again. It's crazy.
    But it was a good reminder for me. Technical people get caught up in different camps (i.e. Linux vs. Windows vs. Mac). We forget that good tech is good tech. And when you can watch your own tech-resistant parents become empowered by one device. It's good tech.
    I specifically went with an iPad because of their walled app garden. Higher functioning users could probably be just fine with an android tablet but this was my Mother. A woman who gets very emotional when things don't work right. And now 90% of my extended family have iPads because of her.
    So before you think about changing your Mother's desktop, change the way you're looking at the problem. Users will try to tell you what they think they need but *hopefully* most of us are smart enough to go back and ask them what the problem is (not what they think the solution should be).
    As I said, we did keep her desktop but the tasks that would open her up to viruses (surfing) now happen on the iPad. I went from having to clean her machine 4 or 5 times a year to zero. Getting that time back was well worth the price of the iPad.

  16. It's hard to say, but... It's not your problem. by Chelloveck · · Score: 5, Insightful

    "I think my computer has a virus."

    "What makes you think that, Dad?"

    "Well, it's been running slow lately. And once a website popped up a notice saying it had detected a virus on my machine."

    "... It did?"

    "Yeah. I downloaded and ran the program it suggested but it seems even worse now."

    "You're right, Dad. Your computer has a virus. Better take it to the repair guy."

    True story. I love my parents, but they're three hours away by car, I gave up on Windows years ago, and there's no way I can talk them through a de-lousing session over the phone. ("Open the control panel. Go to the start menu... No, the one in the lower-left. Now click on it. LEFT click. Press the button on the left side of the mouse, Dad...") Computer repair shops still exist, or in the worst case they can take it to the Geek Squad who at the very least can re-image the damned thing.

    --
    Chelloveck
    I give up on debugging. From now on, SIGSEGV is a feature.
  17. Local Group Policy by chr1st1anSoldier · · Score: 4, Informative

    Greetings, As someone in the IT industry maybe I can give you some advice.

    Since she is on Vista, you might want to look into Local Group Policies.

    http://technet.microsoft.com/en-us/library/cc725970.aspx

    You have much finer, granular control over many aspects of Windows through it. It can take some trial and error, but you can setup an environment where only specific applications run and nothing else. Or, you can do things like not allowing application to run from specific locations (E.G. C:\Users\\AppData or C:\Program Data). Doing this can greatly reduce the amount of Malware and Virus infections. You can also prevent changes to things like the Start Menu or task bar, etc. A lot can be done with Local GPOs that doesn't seem widely known to the standard Windows user, but they can really help lock a machine down.

  18. Re:Sell them. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 3, Insightful

    Ridiculous... Last thing i would ever want to do is charge my parents for computer repair. I owe them a lot for their time and commitment invested in me to make me the man i am today. I am sorry you don't feel that way about your parents.

  19. Re:Is it as bad a Symantec? by mwvdlee · · Score: 3, Insightful

    I've never encountered a virus that was more difficult to remove than Norton.
    I've also never had as much damage from a virus as the damaged caused by simply running Norton.
    I quite honestly treat Norton as malware.

    --
    Slashdot social media options: AIM, ICQ, Yahoo, Jabber and Mobile Text. Why no MySpace?
  20. my suggestions by RobertLTux · · Score: 3, Informative

    1 backup the data from the computer and wipe the computer
    2 install Win7 (you should be still able to get a LEGIT copy somewhere) DO NOT CONNECT TO THE NET
    3 build on your computer a win7 and whichever MSO set of WSUSOffline patches and create a Ninite loader with Firefox/chrome,7zip, LO ,teamviewer ,avast and whatever else you think they will need

    4 run WSUSOffline and get the patches done (optional step install MSSE and upgrade MSIE)
    5 run the Ninite Loader
    6 FOR EACH OF [FIREFOX CHROME MSIE] WHERE INSTALLED =TRUE hit the adblock plus site and get it installed and configured.
    7 setup Teamviewer and set a permanent password
    8 set like EVERYTHING to auto update and "silent" mode where possible.

    --
    Any person using FTFY or editing my postings agrees to a US$50.00 charge
  21. Re:They're dead by hairyfeet · · Score: 5, Informative

    As a PC shop guy I run into this problem quite a lot and there are actually a few options. You can have a program like Paragon Backup and Recovery Free set to make daily/weekly/whatever disc images and then easily roll it back when they bone it (because if they are like most older folks no matter how many times you tell them "don't click on that" they will) but the problem with those is that you usually have to be the one to roll it back, too complex to restore from disk image for an old person.

    So while this way is no longer supported on Win 8 and above (but since Win 8 is a bomb who cares) this is the way that I do it and it gets the "Hairyfeet seal of approval". This method scores damned near a 10 out of 10 in both keeping infections out and in fixing if they manage to bypass your security and infect it anyway. And yes that is a problem, as i have seen older folks actually turn OFF the AV because an email told them to. As a bonus it costs $0.00 and doesn't take more than an hour tops. Ready?

    1.- Install Comodo AV Free and be DAMNED SURE to pick YES when it comes to installing Comodo Dragon, the why will be apparent in a moment. You can go ahead and uncheck geek buddy, that is your job, they don't need some guy at a helpdesk in India to tell them what to do. 2.- Go into Comodo AV after install and turn it to "paranoid mode" this will run everything in a sandbox by default and treat everything as suspect. Now for your not completely clueless you can leave it in clean PC mode, but for those that click the "punch the clown and win an iPad" types paranoid is safest. 3.- the final step is to download and install Comodo Time Machine and LOCK the first image, call it "clean PC" or something else that will be easy to tell grandma over the phone. A bit of warning when it comes to CTS, it dos NOT work on win 8, it does NOT work on dual boots, you should also set it to clean out old snapshots after say 30 days. That said if you want a PC that can recover from pretty much every bug out there? here ya go.

    And that is it, stick a fork, there is no step 4. Of course this assumes you have already done the common sense things like set windows update to automatic but other than that you should now have a 100% clean PC that will stay that way. The browser is sandboxed and locked down, runs by default in low rights mode, the AV is watching everything like a hawk and if they manage to talk the old folks into bypassing the AV? Time machine has you covered. I have several users that would get more nasties than a Bangkok whore on coupon night and thanks to this little 3 step program their PCs are pretty much idiot proof. Oh and as a bonus if they screw anything up, uninstall a printer driver or just trash a program? it takes less than 10 minutes over the phone to restore with CTS. You tell them reboot, hit home key when they see the big clock, pick the day before (assuming you set it for daily or snapshot on boot) and leave it alone...and that is it, the CTS will set the machine back and it'll be like they never made the boo boo.

    --
    ACs don't waste your time replying, your posts are never seen by me.
  22. you forgot more than the new kid ever knew? by raymorris · · Score: 5, Insightful

    I hear what you're saying. I'm at the age where before long I'll be an old guy. The new kids will probably think I don't know anything about some new thing X, only to find out that I helped write X.

    My mother was a pioneer who helped bring major companies into the digital age. She's taught programming, database architecture, etc. and was a top ranking information systems executive for Fortune 100 companies. I learned a lot from her. It would be accurate to say she's forgotten more than most Slashdotters ever knew. That's one reason she calls me for help - because she's forgotten. The other day I mentioned a principle she taught me and she didn't know what I was talking about, having been away from it for 15 years.

    The other reason she calls me is because while she could patch a Unix BINARY by manually editing the machine code, Windows 8 is a new, foreign land. She had a Vista machine before this Windows 8 laptop, but she's much more comfortable with Solaris or System 7, or any environment that runs Cobol.

    I greatly respect her knowledge and experience, especially her deep understanding of timeless principles. She recognizes that today's systems and today's threats are not the same as the 8080 powered systems she wrote assembler for.

    I've been programming interactive web sites since 1997. Recently my wife, who is ten years younger than I, taught me a bit about Facebook.

    Each of us has strengths and weaknesses. In general, as we mature we synthesize random knowledge into principles - broadly applicable statements that reflect deeper understanding than feature X and product Y. When we're younger, we're interested in each new version of product Y, the new performance feature and this new security feature.

    The foolish young person might think that the "old guy" is out of date. The wise person who has seen some things realizes that the new kid actually DOES have something we could benefit from - the PFY often knows that the virus scanner we've loved for 20 years hasn't kept up, and he knows the new, improved tools.

    When I want to know relational calculus or how to bid a job without requirements, I'll ask the old guy. When I want to know how to uninvite someone from a Facebook event, I'll ask that kid over there who is building the Facebook app.