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Snowden Gives Alternative Christmas Message On Channel 4
codeusirae wrote in with news that Edward Snowden gave an alternative to the UK's yearly Christmas message, speaking about his objections to mass indiscriminate surveillance by governments. The message aired on channel four at 16:15. Slashgear posted a transcript. Quoting: "Think about what this means for the privacy of the average person. A child born today will grow up with no conception of privacy at all. They'll never know what it means to have a private moment to themselves — an unrecorded, unanalyzed thought. And that's a problem, because privacy matters. Privacy is what allows us to determine who we are and who we want to be."
It seems he's coming more out of the woodwork now rather than sitting behind the scenes and letting the documents do the talking.
but snooping on phone calls and facebook is a tad far off from mind reading
Just think about it for a sec...
If an Iranian or Russian version of Snowden had defected to the [mighty] USA, we would be trumpeting our "superior" system and way-of-life as compared to "those other nations."
We would be saying we're glad to be living here where ther's the "rule of law" yada yada yada...
But because he was one of us, our government is instead labeling him as a traitor. Sadly, a good number of Americans don't see the hipocrisy!!
Right, because every comment that doesn't kiss the butt of Snowden or Assange is an NSA post. You're an idiot.
Can't you give the "worship Snowden" straw man a day off. He's getting very tired and would like to spend Christmas at home with his straw family.
...and be surveilled on CCTV while they walk to/from the park on public sidewalks, and be surveilled yet again by cameras installed at the park.
Ed's point stands.
I appreciate what Snowden is saying, but perhaps fewer narcissistic platitudes and more documents on the front pages? Snowden isn't Jesus, the more he toots "It's not about me", the more it becomes about him
Jesus Fucking Christ, this man is going to spend the rest of his life, in extreme, rational fear for his life, and the lives of anyone he has ever, or will ever love. Cut the man some fucking slack you asshole.
government knows so much about the public that they have essentially got the hidden ability to mind control society. control all information, providing us misinformation to hide the truth and manipulate people, keeping us all in the dark to the truth of what's really occurring through use of illegal surveillance. they keep society weak by enforcing the laws to protect the corporations and grant them the ability to do wage enslavement, to control access to things they can fight with like education, healthcare, housing, and food, and keeping the truth hidden so we cannot make informed decisions about what is really happening. meanwhile, we all suffer, and live by their rule.
Also, the government takes this a step further: they love it when you pour your life out into a telephone and Facebook message, so they can monitor everything you're doing, so they know exactly how to manipulate and control you. they also have a vast network of satellites and remote sensing technology, that allows cellular, WiFi, and mind reading tech to work. they literally can tap your mind, extract any thought or memory, and stay on top of any situation. the outsiders have no idea that we're truly being controlled that well. technology / SIGINT details, dozens of NRO and ELINT satellites, Strategic Defense Initiative details (energy weapons, with ability to target humans, etc), and Remote Neural Monitoring details/patent information at: http://www.oregonstatehospital.net/d/russelltice-nsarnmebl.html
We only think we have civil rights and freedoms. If they can do it all in secret, we got nothing. It is a true police/military state right now! This is exactly the way the game is being played.
Not quite the correct answer, but I don't let my kids have technology in their room. No tv, cell phones, computers or otherwise.
Children have millions of these before they ever use an electronic gewgaw.
That is wise. I hope you plan to supervise their computer use as they get older, and keep an eye on the games they play. They will complain, but it is the right thing to do. Good luck raising them.
much of left-wing thought is a kind of playing with fire by people who don't even know that fire is hot - George Orwell
Yes, easy answer: if you don't like the government sticking their nose in your private life, just become a hermit!
Ed really should try leaving his desk from time to time.
You should take that advice too, are you being paid overtime for this, by chance?
> Jesus Fucking Christ, this man is going to spend the rest of his life, in extreme, rational fear for his life, and the lives of anyone he has ever, or will ever love. Cut the man some fucking slack you asshole.
Hopefully you're wrong. Hopefully he'll be caught and no longer be in fear.
It sounds like you are OK with his being imprisoned and/or tortured and/or executed, and the same for anyone who was ever close to him, and perhaps another love-hop from there because authorities believe it makes the crucifixion more effective?
Snowden appears to have done the right thing, for the right reasons. He served our best interests.
Then who is it about? Who is actually standing up and doing something about this?
The definition of a narcissist is someone who excessively admires his or herself. I don't see how sacrificing one's own career, income, relationships, freedom to travel, reputation, and subjecting himself to ridiculous criticism and smear campaigns is compatible with that definition.
Edward Snowden has made sacrifices on behalf of principles we should all be standing up for. That has little to do with self-love.
It isn't good for children to always have their noses stuck in a computer of some sort. There are plenty of other things they should be doing. That hardly constitutes being a "hermit."
As to the rest of your post, it would be more convincing if it was posted tomorrow. And I could ask you the same question.
much of left-wing thought is a kind of playing with fire by people who don't even know that fire is hot - George Orwell
Blaw, blaw, blaw ... straw man ... Blaw, blaw, blaw
Learn that in college, did you? Every statement you disagree with is a "straw man", right?
No, you really don't, as your comment below shows.
Really? What have you done lately? Perhaps you should stop trolling and consider doing something more productive.
If you are calling a man who's sacrificed his future for the future of others a narcissist for airing his opinions, then you are nothing more than a jealous little man with nothing of value to add. Please go away.
Are you surprised to see complete disrespect of privacy laws?
Too many previous slave owners and their descendants still lives and have say in politics. It was serious error by US population not to charge them with crimes and let them keep the wealth acquired by using slave labor.
Today that money are being used heavily in politics to induce laws to enslave people's digital lives and treat us like objects: credit agencies, info-search databases, social security numbers etc.
Privacy is treated as something that can be converted to dollar figure.
This "slavery mentality" must change or eliminated before we can talk about keeping our lives private.
You told us this twice yesterday.
Signed,
The Internet
It isn't good for children to always have their noses stuck in a computer of some sort. There are plenty of other things they should be doing. That hardly constitutes being a "hermit."
Which does nothing to disprove Snowden's point. One can use a computer and still go outside, you know.
As to the rest of your post, it would be more convincing if it was posted tomorrow. And I could ask you the same question.
Unlike Americans, I don't have anything to celebrate on this day. I keep celebrating the way I did in the days of the Soviet Union, on December 31st. The Russian Orthodox Church sticks to the Julian calendar and celebrates on January 7, anyway.
He says people want privacy but he's put himself in the public eye. Seems inconsistent.
and go for a walk, or to the park to play.
...where the government's cameras can watch their every move?
Is it true that the UK has the most street-oriented, government "owned & operated" cameras in the world? I would like to see a citation here.
Sounds kinda strange for a country that claims to be part of 'the free world" doesn't it?
captcha: scotch
Recognition of the deliberate destruction of civil liberties worldwide by agencies of the US and UK governments has only just begun. If you think that what we've heard so far is "enough", you clearly don't want the status quo to change. The process of reversal has barely started.
Snowden's message needs to be repeated again and again until we're thinking of it in our sleep, otherwise we're headed directly towards a dystopia of totalitarianism. Very powerful forces want exactly that, allied to others who can't think for themselves but are glad to obey and enforce compliance.
You are no credit to the world if you want Snowden's message silenced.
I appreciate what Snowden is saying, but perhaps fewer narcissistic platitudes and more documents on the front pages? Snowden isn't Jesus, the more he toots "It's not about me", the more it becomes about him
Jesus Fucking Christ, this man is going to spend the rest of his life, in extreme, rational fear for his life, and the lives of anyone he has ever, or will ever love. Cut the man some fucking slack you asshole.
In his line of work, it is the price of doing what he did.
Did anyone else notice the 'max headroom' style that this seemed to be aired in? Im unsure if it was actually him.
I appreciate what Snowden is saying, but perhaps fewer narcissistic platitudes and more documents on the front pages? Snowden isn't Jesus, the more he toots "It's not about me", the more it becomes about him
Is Snowden looking for the limelight, or is the media just hanging on his every word. Because really there's not really that much of him exposed, he doesn't say all that much at all. But there is a lot of exposure of what little there is. I think the media not Snowden should take the brunt of your distaste.
Hopefully he has the good sense not to make this about him. But I don't expect him to live a disconnected hermit life to avoid others trying to make it about him.
Ah, marvelous. There are Russian Orthodox churches in the US that maintain the Orthodox traditions, such as Saint Nicholas Russian Orthodox in Seattle.
I wish you a happy post-Soviet joyously Orthodox Christmas in the Russian tradition.
much of left-wing thought is a kind of playing with fire by people who don't even know that fire is hot - George Orwell
He put himself in the position he's in, no-one else did it to him. Him and Assange are the new generation of Mesiah's who are using a different means in order to grab fame and power. They are doing quite nicely thanks to their reporter mates.
...and FUCK YOU CHANNEL 4 for blocking the video around the world you BAGS OF SHIT.
Worked really well for Randy Weaver, and for the Branch Davidians...
to many Americans
Until they complain about the amount of surveillance their parents perform and the fact they live in a prison family, but thats Ok because you have their safety in mind. No Government terrorist will be able to stalk them.
The "surveillance" part should always be a concern given the potential to turn into more. But I don't think you can really claim unqualified totalitarianism unless there is actual repression tied into it, especially political repression, rather than law enforcement against mugging and rape. Still, it is something that a free society has to be mindful of, and guard against so that surveillance doesn't turn into totalitarianism. And it is certainly good to maintain privacy when possible.
much of left-wing thought is a kind of playing with fire by people who don't even know that fire is hot - George Orwell
Your a fucking fool.
On the Oregon Cost born and raised, On the beach is where I spent most of my days
... with this country, isn’t there? Cruelty and injustice, intolerance and oppression. And where once you had the freedom to object, to think and speak as you saw fit, you now have censors and systems of surveillance coercing your conformity and soliciting your submission. How did this happen? Who’s to blame? Well certainly there are those more responsible than others, and they will be held accountable, but again truth be told, if you’re looking for the guilty, you need only look into a mirror. I know why you did it. I know you were afraid. Who wouldn’t be? War, terror, disease. There were a myriad of problems which conspired to corrupt your reason and rob you of your common sense. Fear got the best of you, and in your panic you turned to the now high chancellor, Adam Sutler. He promised you order, he promised you peace, and all he demanded in return was your silent, obedient consent.
Not having privacy while on public property is not something to complain about, it's the definition of being in a public place.
He's not Jesus alright. For one, unlike Jesus, he actually exists and did something remarkable.
Although narcissism may be involved, I think the phenomenon you are looking for is the:
Martyr complex.
In psychology, a person who has a martyr complex, sometimes associated with the term victim complex, desires the feeling of being a martyr for his/her own sake, seeking out suffering or persecution because it feeds a psychological need.
In some cases, this results from the belief that the martyr has been singled out for persecution because of exceptional ability or integrity ...
The desire for martyrdom is sometimes considered a form of masochism.[6] Allan Berger, however, described it as one of several patterns of "pain/suffering seeking behavior", including asceticism and penance.[7]
Interesting tie in from his recent interview:
Edward Snowden, after months of NSA revelations, says his mission’s accomplished
Over two days his guard never dropped, but he allowed a few fragments to emerge. He is an “ascetic,” he said. He lives off ramen noodles and chips. He has visitors, and many of them bring books. The books pile up, unread. The Internet is an endless library and a window on the progress of his cause.
Interesting, but not definitive.
much of left-wing thought is a kind of playing with fire by people who don't even know that fire is hot - George Orwell
No, it isn't. Even in public places, you have some degree of privacy.
And mass surveillance is far, far different from some random person seeing you in a public place. I don't think they should even be compared. Privacy in regards to someone seeing you in a public place and privacy in regards to mass surveillance are two different things.
Filthy, filthy copyrapists!
"...because privacy matters. Privacy is what allows us to determine who we are and who we want to be."
Y'know, when I read that, for some reason the first thing I thought of was James Brown, the singer/composer/dancer. I watched a documentary about him once, and remember that as a child, he would go off by himself and be in his own head. I think that's where a lot of his creativity came from. Maybe I just identified with that and maybe a lot of people don't care. But yes, I think privacy matters.
Looked at from a different point of view, I remember reading, as a layman, about a hypothesis of Darwinism that many big changes in evolution came from isolated, what one might call protected, environments where something analogous to human activies of design and 'working out the bugs' could happen.
Isn't one of the 4 freedoms supposed to be 'Freedom from Fear'? I think there's always a little bit of fear, or at least anxiety, when you don't have privacy.
In theory, theory and practice are the same; in practice they're different. (Yogi Berra & A. Einstein)
Both Fox News and The Washington Post are reporting favorably on Snowden. Congress and the courts are acting on his revelations. He's changed the world a little, probably for the better.
As far as I can tell, he lives off ramen because he has no money., not because he's into martyrdom.
The summary picked the right quote to illustrate the message. As far as I know, the NSA hasn't been doing mind reading, and people do get private moments to themselves. There aren't cameras and microphones in every room of every house. But the best one is this: "And that's a problem, because privacy matters." A completely hollow statement.
It would be better if the whistleblower didn't have the wit of a 14 year-old.
I appreciate what Snowden is saying, but perhaps fewer narcissistic platitudes and more documents on the front pages? Snowden isn't Jesus, the more he toots "It's not about me", the more it becomes about him
It IS all about him. Him and his agent, Greenwald.
Snowden doesn't give two squirts of piss about what he found, merely that it got him the attention he felt he deserved. In addition, there were only so many cases of Greenwald pulling the "The Goverment could (possibly in my deranged mind) wiretap all phonecalls! Now, without any evidence at all, lets talk about this newly established fact that the Government is somehow tapping all phone calls, everywhere."
Follow that up with Greenwald acting like an AOL troll circa 1990 to anyone who calls him out on his bullshit (seriously, watch his twitter feed, it's like watching an 8 year old playing Journalist) and his "newspaper," The Guardian editing articles without retractions when they realize just how full of shit he is, and, well...
In a few years we'll all realize Greenwald and Snowden are mostly full of shit, for the time being, they make interesting sock puppets for the InfoWar style conspiracy nuts amongst us.
There are whistle blower laws that would have protected him if he'd played by the rules. He chose to make a martyr out of himself.
I have to agree with the GP's post though; Snowden (or more likely the organization supporting him) is on a PR blitz to keep him on the front pages for as long as possible. It's getting old hearing the same story day after day.
What an idiotic thing to say.
Remember how the Soviets would lock up "counter-revolutionaries" as headcases?
Well, this is just the same, from a Western PoV: there can't possibly be anyone prepared to sacrifice themselves for the greater good in our glorious capitalist nation, so it must be a psychological illness.
And, just like the Soviets would, the American government wants this one locked away forever.
Well, if someone fscking picked up the ball, there would be no need for him to speak up again. But just like the hush machine stifled all information about the totally non-working, systematically broken secret quasi-oversight, now the "is he a traitor" distraction is fully working and fscking nobody articulates what the consequences and vision of a life without privacy are. The closest to a serious comment I have seen is what Pamela Jones wrote before shuttering Groklaw.
Short of that: nothing. I can't believe that humanity is so totally broken that Snowden was the only person with a conscience in the NSA (well, there are quite a few documented to have been silenced), and now is basically the only person telling people what privacy is about.
It's time the fscking sheep started doing some thinking for themselves, or he'll be better off trying to convince Russians about the value of freedom, privacy, and democratic control.
U.S. citizens clearly don't understand its value any more and are satisfied sinking further and further into despondency.
There are whistle blower laws that would have protected him if he'd played by the rules. He chose to make a martyr out of himself.
Right... he was supposed to count on this commander in chief's attitude toward whistleblower laws to protect him and those he loved-???
http://www.policymic.com/articles/57017/obama-removes-promise-to-protect-whistleblowers-from-old-campaign-website
"
(previously on Obama's website): 'Protect Whistleblowers: Often the best source of information about waste, fraud, and abuse in government is an existing government employee committed to public integrity and willing to speak out. Such acts of courage and patriotism, which can sometimes save lives and often save taxpayer dollars, should be encouraged rather than stifled. We need to empower federal employees as watchdogs of wrongdoing and partners in performance. Barack Obama will strengthen whistleblower laws to protect federal workers who expose waste, fraud, and abuse of authority in government. Obama will ensure that federal agencies expedite the process for reviewing whistleblower claims and whistleblowers have full access to courts and due process.'
While the connection between such blatant hypocrisy and its intentional "removal" from the internet remains speculative, the coincidence is too great to ignore. Moreover, it is hard not to recall George Orwell's 1984 and the Ministry of Truth's epic programs to rewrite history in an attempt to save face.
"
He described himself as "ascetic," not poor. That self-description would apply regardless of how much money he had.
much of left-wing thought is a kind of playing with fire by people who don't even know that fire is hot - George Orwell
He put himself in the position he's in, no-one else did it to him. Him and Assange are the new generation of Mesiah's who are using a different means in order to grab fame and power. They are doing quite nicely thanks to their reporter mates.
James Russell Lowell -
"
Once to every man and nation
Comes the moment to decide,
In the strife of truth and falsehood,
For the good or evil side;
Some great cause, God's new Messiah,
Off'ring each the bloom or blight,
And the choice goes by forever
Twixt that darkness and that light.
Though the cause of evil prosper,
Yet 'tis truth alone is strong;
Though her portion be the scaffold,
And upon the throne be wrong:
Yet that scaffold sways the future,
And behind the dim unknown,
Standeth God within the shadow
Keeping watch above his own.
"
That and what he has been blabbering about has been long known, the NSA and the wide spying on Americans, an international spying ring, countries spying on there leaders/politicians or spying on other countries leaders/politicians.
Nothing about the other US spying agencies within the US or abroad, all he has talked about or given to newspapers/media outlets has been widely known going to WWI, if not further back. If he did give anything away of any worth to the public he would have been arrested by now and sent back to the US.
I also wonder if this isn't some experiment on the NSA/US governments part to see how US citizens would react as well as the rest of the worlds citizens, again these countries knew the where being spied on, and where spying themselves. And none of it was any deeply classified secret Jane and John public hadn't already known.
And the idiots who continue to believe he is some whistle blower for given away that which was already suspected and widely known, the terms the s**t for brains media, and the average citizen just throw out there to describe someone is at an all time high, lets recklessly throw terms and labels out there for anyone that has done s**t.
> in extreme, rational fear for his life, and the lives of anyone he has ever, or will ever love.
and/or tortured and/or executed, and the same for anyone who was ever close to him, and perhaps another love-hop from there because authorities believe
Jesus guys, come down a bit please. WTF would he be tortured? WTF would his siblings be bothered other than being harder for them to get security clearances?
I believe the cat is already out of the bag, so no reason for that kind of stuff.
http://slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=4596949&cid=45783413
Everything I write is lies, read between the lines.
Your a fucking fool.
My a fucking fool? Is that like an obscene garden gnome?
You're an illiterate tool.
The case against Snowden is for espionage and computer crime, not for being a revolutionary.
much of left-wing thought is a kind of playing with fire by people who don't even know that fire is hot - George Orwell
"...They'll never know what it means to have a private moment to themselves â" an unrecorded, unanalyzed thought..."
Bullshit. This is just drama-queen nonsense right here.
No, their complaints aren't private...because they post them immediately to Facebook, snapchat them to someone else, or can't help but tweet their latest crisis to their 465 followers. Surprise, announcing your private thoughts and feelings to hundreds if not thousands makes it unlikely your thought is "private".
Today, any person can have a "private moment". They can have "private thoughts". There are even lots of opportunities for actual privacy, and they're pretty much all the same ways people have done these things through the centuries (unless you choose to avail yourself of modern communications).
To claim otherwise is pure histrionics.
-Styopa
You missed the 'growing up' part. And those kids ARE being monitored and followed. Even if they do not have any device that can be tracked with them, they will be seen by Google Glass. They will be seen by CCTV. They will be responding to be in the park with friends. Their moms and dads will tell grandma they will take the kid to the park.
And if you think that this is just about walking outside, then you have no concept about what privacy is.
In Europe, privacy is much more elaborate. e.g. no mug shots of people who were arrested because of privacy reasons (Yes, I understand why it is possible in the USofA.)
Privacy is different of what it used to be and what we think it was. This because of recording. e.g. when you used to do something stupid when you were young, your friends would know. You were drunk and you learned a lesson not to do such a thing anymore.
Perhaps a few times they will laugh about it and repeat it during your wedding. That is the end.
Now when you do it, it will not only be recorded. It will be put online. It will be searchable by others that you have no influence over. And if you do something that becomes illegal later, you are screwed.
Changing your opinion? Not possible as it was recorded.
Must be great living in a world where you are afraid of what you might do wrong, without knwing what it was. Talk to people who have lived in countries that have been followed. I have. Being at a public IT meeting and the person asks to turni the camera's off so he can give some more details about what he is working on is impressive. Not being able to ask that as the camera's are always running is frightening.
The power is (not will be) abused. Look at your kid playing in the park and think if you want your kid to grow up in that fear or if watching TV is more important.
Don't fight for your country, if your country does not fight for you.
One way to separate out trolls from ordinary posts taking a contrary position is to read the parent post to see if the post in question answers a point in the parent post. A rationally stated point supported by related facts isn't a troll just because you disagree with it. If your primary basis for moderating down posts is that you simply disagree with the position, you don't support free debate as part of free speech. If you consistently act that way you are allying yourself with fascist principles.
much of left-wing thought is a kind of playing with fire by people who don't even know that fire is hot - George Orwell
Jesus guys, come down a bit please. WTF would he be tortured? WTF would his siblings be bothered other than being harder for them to get security clearances?
Coincidentally enough, the answer to your question should be 'bloody obvious on this day, particularly with the first word you chose to use. Even for the non-believer, Jesus was a good reminder about modes of government intimidation. The authorities and masses couldn't get Jesus to un-say what he had already said. But they sure could terrorize the populace into preventing anyone from standing up to them again.
particularly with the first word you chose to use. Even for the non-believer, Jesus
You are lost in left field. Read up a bit a bit and you will find out I just copy-catted it from the GGP or something.
Merry Christmas ;-)
Everything I write is lies, read between the lines.
>He described himself as "ascetic," not poor.
Yeah? If I were subsisting on ramen, I'd come up with some bullshit rationalization for it too.
What do you expect? He's becoming a cultural icon instead of just a government whistle-blower; he's being re-made by the public-at-large as the poster-child for surveillance on this planet. Under that sort of pressure do you think that you could remain unchanged by it, and more to the point, retain your humility? Most people would not, humans being humans. Ignore the "tone" of what he said there, and just concentrate on the message, because he's right: Corporate culture and governments are indoctrinating the newer generations to believe that privacy is something sought after only by criminals and others who are doing something to be ashamed of, and that it's right and normal to "share" everything about your life with everyone. I can't even begin to imagine how much this is going to damage the psyche of humanity over the long term because it is not normal or natural to live that way.
Are YOU using the TOOL, or is the TOOL using YOU? Think about it!
So, are you suggesting that Snowden wasn't being truthful? How far do you think that extends?
much of left-wing thought is a kind of playing with fire by people who don't even know that fire is hot - George Orwell
Read up a bit a bit
Must have meant "just a little bit"
Well
I pray just a little bit
Pray just a little bit.
I pray nobody wants your loving to keep
And you stray just a little bit
Stray just a little bit.
Don't let temptation fill your heart with dreams
Don't let your mind run away.
Everything I write is lies, read between the lines.
Fuck off, stasi cunt. You are our enemy.
Funnily enough, I think Putin put it the best. After all, he's an old intelligence operative himself.
"He's a strange man. He threw away his life, a good life, just to push for an idealist goal. I don't agree with him, but I respect his conviction".
Considering that his neighbors in US claim that he spent ages in front of the computer, it's pretty likely he was living like that for a while. There's only so much you can burn money on while working on publishing biggest leak of the century and he's been doing it for years.
How the fuck is this insightful? Snowden is a goddamn hero who is tellign it like it is. Frankly the anti Snowden BS posters are the ones that need a good hard kick in the balls.
this post brought to you by some fuckwit troll, who just trolled the shit out of slashdot on christmas day, and actually have people defending said troll
lolololololol tis the season
In his line of work, it is the price of doing what he did.
And he was a very courageous and public-spirited man for doing it.
I for one, would not have the courage and selflessness to make such a sacrifice.
Compare what he did with the thousands of morons running around at the moment killing themselves and others in the name of some sort of god.
Stick Men
There are whistle blower laws that would have protected him if he'd played by the rules.
Funny indeed. If he'd played by the rules, the American people, in all likelihood, would still be ignorant of what their government is doing. When the government is violating the constitution and people's rights, I think the people need to be the first to know. Forget idiotic rules.
Filthy, filthy copyrapists!
Zing! I'll just bet you're just spooging to hear more of this Snowden character and what underpants he might sport. I didn't hear one bit about your mention of ego from this "Debacle" if you will. 'narcissistic platitudes' ? Really? Hang on a sec...lemmie whip out my own bullshit generator.
> There are whistle blower laws that would have protected him if he'd played by the rules. He chose to make a martyr out of himself.
Ellsberg (the guy who leaked the Pentagon Papers [which revealed the fact that multiple Administrations lied to the American public and Congress to get into the Vietnam War, and then lied again to covertly expand its reach]) *strongly* disagrees with you:
http://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/daniel-ellsberg-nsa-leaker-snowden-made-the-right-call/2013/07/07/0b46d96c-e5b7-11e2-aef3-339619eab080_story.html
and
http://www.npr.org/blogs/thetwo-way/2013/08/03/208602113/pentagon-papers-leaker-daniel-ellsberg-praises-snowden-manning
This America is not the America our parents grew up in. Things have changed, largely for the worse.
Here, Ellsberg speaks directly on his opinion about the NSA documents that have been revealed to the public and the impact of the programs that they reveal:
http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2013/jun/10/edward-snowden-united-stasi-america
Please carefully read the documents that have been released so far, the articles that I have linked to, and the discussion surrounding these issues. While you're doing that please do try to forget all about the messenger and focus on the messages that have been brought to your attention.
I'd argue what's getting old is NOT hearing the story of "Top NSA brass arrested, tried as enemies of the state."
There's a game which must be played. Expecting people to focus on the message without paying attention to the messsenger is unrealistic and stupid. Snowden as a face for the NSA revelations is a good move. I can't fathom why you would object to Snowden being on the front pages rather than something of less importance, which is pretty much anything else for the US.
> in extreme, rational fear for his life, and the lives of anyone he has ever, or will ever love.
and/or tortured and/or executed, and the same for anyone who was ever close to him, and perhaps another love-hop from there because authorities believe
Jesus guys, come down a bit please. WTF would he be tortured?
Because we can. Why was Manning tortured?
You are probably right, but if I were in his place I would not trust those whistle blower laws and would try to PR myself to not spend the rest of my life in prison.
On the other hand I would not become a whistle blower at all, I'm not brave enough to face the US government alone.
well put. Unfortunately, that narcisistic traitor also cost us a few billion dollars in building new toys.
Because he stayed on duty after starting leaking until he was arrested.
Everything I write is lies, read between the lines.
Well what the hell do you want him to say? "It is about me?"
Merely appearing in the media, even if it's not voluntary, has been cause for being called a narcissist.
"speaking about his objections to mass indiscriminate surveillance by governments"... From the warm embrace of a totalarian state and from under the approving gaze of it's thuggish leader, Putin. He is both a "tool" and a tool of Putin's propaganda machine. Perhaps, he should have invited to his broadcast the just released from Russian prison system Pussy Riot band members.
What makes you think this administration has any interest in following the law? Why do you think the media would call them on it if they pulled out his fingernails on live TV during prime time? So far Obama does anything he wants and creates new laws at press conferences with a wave of his hand, with impunity. Snowden better make sure he doesn't get caught, he embarrassed too many people and we always need a new distraction from the Obamacare debacle.
What makes you think this administration has any interest in following the law?
What makes you think this is what I think? The administration does what is good for itself, hence my point.
Much confused aren't you? mixing it all up together aren't you?
Everything I write is lies, read between the lines.
would have protected him if he'd played by the rules
Funny how "the rules" only become important when the abusers are exposed. Since they ignore "the rules" whenever it suits them, there's no place for complaining about others doing the same. In any case, the rules of integrity, decency, patriotism, being a free people, and a dozen other things were followed to the letter.
This posting is provided 'AS IS' without warranty of any kind, implied or otherwise.
There is little room for genuine doubt that Jesus existed. The record is too extensive and close in time to his time on earth. It is also clear that he did many remarkable things, the real question is if you believe in them? Compare the document record between Jesus and Plato sometime.
But I don't think you can really claim unqualified totalitarianism unless there is actual repression tied into it, especially political repression
Latest example of several that are on record: NSA used to squash the political movment: Occupy Wall Street. So your right, it is now possible to make a claim for unqualified totalitarianism in this country.
"Gameboy"? How fucking old are you? ugh..
The truly sad thing is that you think the technology makes a difference and that it isn't the fact that kids bury their faces in them far too much.
So you don't have any specific instances you care to quote? It is always possible to make the claim about "unqualified totalitarianism," it just isn't true. Besides that, the lawlessness in the camps and riots by the Occupy members that did occur were a local police problem, not an NSA problem.
Occupy Wall Street was a minor movement of the fringe left that went nowhere to the surprise of few people. I don't think they could get the scheduling committees to get "making a plan" on the agenda before the interest ran out and the "drum lines" got the munchies and wandered off.
much of left-wing thought is a kind of playing with fire by people who don't even know that fire is hot - George Orwell
Nothing happened on November 27th, 2013 that I'm aware of. No felony assault, either. And, I don't live at that house, so I'm good.
The majority of posts, on /. of all places, slamming Snowden for "blah blah blah, PR, narcissist, looking to make money off this."
This guy has effectively destroyed his own life, and the lives of those around him, to tell us, the plebs of the world, the truth that our Governments have been hiding from us.
And you're tearing a strip off him?
If that random person that "seeing you" happens to record it and post it to youtube? I am failing to see the difference between distributed mass surveillance and a centrally operated one. If the data can be obtained and correleated what is the real difference. Privacy is quickly going away. Even in "private" places like your living room, there are cameras starting to seep in with other equipment. Smart TV = TV that watches you... just as a single example.
I am failing to see the difference between distributed mass surveillance and a centrally operated one.
You honestly don't see the difference between the government installing surveillance equipment everywhere in public places that gives them the ability to 'be' in many places at once and collect all the data with a high degree of certainty and some random person who may or may not have a camera recording you and then perhaps uploading the footage to Youtube? Even if someone happens to record you, there is little reason they'd bother uploading the video unless something interesting happened. The government, however, collects the data to get a list of targets they can harass.
The differences are pretty clear to me, and I don't see why you would fail to see them.
Filthy, filthy copyrapists!
There are whistle blower laws that would have protected him if he'd played by the rules. He chose to make a martyr out of himself.
Fool. That isn't how whistleblower laws work, not even in theory, let alone practice, especially in the intelligence industry.
And he did try to play by the rules; his superiors made it abundantly clear to him (repeatedly so) that his opinion on the matter was not solicited, and furthermore, endangered his career.
It's getting old hearing the same story day after day.
Until naive, delusional fools like yourself can't see the problem we're facing, it should be repeated constantly and continuously until you get the fucking message.
Because he stayed on duty after starting leaking until he was arrested.
That made it right to torture him, did it? Do you not see how that proves his point?
I can't believe the level of superiority everyone around seems inebriated with... This site sucks ass.
Do you know this number: 541-746-5340?
Proves what point? He was arguing with me that Snowden would be because Manning was while I said Snowden wouldn't be.
Everything I write is lies, read between the lines.
LOL whistleblowing is not espionage and computer crime.
His material is working its way into the open US court system with very positive results http://www.freedomwatchusa.org/federal-judge-rules-against-nsa
Domestic spying is now "Benign Information Gathering"
He chose to.
-Will P.
Sorry but the NSA and the Presidents who authorized this shit have lost their way completely. IF and when the NSa is busted interfering in American or European economic or political life in the name of "national security" which they may have already done because clearly this is a group of technocrats, reputation hounds, careerists and yes men in whom any notion of what constitutes a civil society is entirely absent. They don't *get* that as soon as they're caught tipping outcomes, ruining lives, thwarting the speech and actions of individuals in the name of national security it's game over for us as a unified nation;It will break us up. IT will serve as the flashpoint for people who on the right are fed up with what they see as a statist regime and on the left as what they see as corptocry, a fascist unification of state and business interests who could give a shit about democracy. They will not accept the government as legitimate any more and in this they may have a majority opinion.
They've built a big machine that is just begging to be used in just this fashion, and just as with Snowden, what they've done WILL leak. Then it's game over, the United States will break up- at the hands of our own "national security" infrastructure.
They don't get this. They don't get that just the fact that X COULD be done with the information they stockpile, people will assume they ARE doing X in society generally and to them personally and no amount of telling them "you're crazy, no one cares about you" is going to change that perception.
This dynamic can not be permitted to exist ,period. It's not EVEN about what the NSA does or doesn't do (although it can be as above) it's about what it's like to be watched and recorded with no ability to watch the watcher. What psychological place that puts human being in. The fact that they don't get this, the fact that they didn't understand Snowden would happen, they think it's an aberration caused by his individual personality or personality type, the fact that they are not philosophers or have enough of the statesmen about them to even doubt the rightness of what it is they're doing but just blindly and ferociously defend it against all objections, all this means they've lost their way utterly.
As has Obama. Which is very bad on many levels.,
Of all our Presidents, you would expect a Constitutional scholar to puke up all over this shit. The fact that he doesn't could mean a lot of things. First, being good at school is just being good at school and nothing more. It's basically an isolated, disconnected stand alone specialized skill that doesn't come with any real world performance implications.
It may also mean that the NSA et al can overwhelm nearly anyone. With their presentations, unverfiable assertions, their ability to paint a picture of reality that no one else can verifiy or deny, no Commander in Chief is going to go against them. This means they're an unofficial 4th branch of government superior in power to the other three.
Isn't this what the FISA courts prove? They're the NSA's pet and nothing ore. Isn't this what the insane invocation of state's secrets whenever anything gets as far a courtroom proves? That they're unaccountable to our system of justice ? Isn't this what the unpunished lying to Congress and years and years of withholding and distorting information from and to Congress proves? That they're unaccountable to and superior to our system of government? Isn't what secret laws with secret interpretations which Congress and the People and the Courts can't see or even know about , isn't this a defacto fascist state, whatever their motivations or however benign (for now, with this particular crew) their actions?
I would vote impeach Obama. I would reach backwards and go after Bush and Cheney and Yoo and Addington and all the rest. It's not over, not by a long shot. I was a full on progressive Obama supporter. I cried when he took that walk to the inauguration with Michelle and his kids.. No shit. I s
It was you who wrote, and I quote "I don't think you can really claim unqualified totalitarianism unless there is actual repression tied into it, especially political repression". I have given you many references to one specific well documented example where the NSA was involved in the identification and takedown of key leaders of a political movement. Perhaps you should have said something like: "I don't think you can really claim unqualified totalitarianism unless there is actual repression tied into it, especially political repression, unless it is a minor political movement, or a fringe political movement - it is OK to repress those they dont count."
Your posts here strongly smell of socially destructive Right Wing Authoritarianism, chiefly:
Authoritarian submission — a high degree of submissiveness to the authorities who are perceived to be established and legitimate in the society in which one lives.
Authoritarian aggression — a general aggressiveness directed against deviants, outgroups, and other people that are perceived to be targets according to established authorities.
Conventionalism — a high degree of adherence to the traditions and social norms that are perceived to be endorsed by society and its established authorities, and a belief that others in one's society should also be required to adhere to these norms.
That, itself, is a strawman. More so, even, than the "Snowden thinks he's Jesus" strawman of the OP.
And no, you didn't do that on purpose to troll the GP, and yes, that IS what you were going to say. You were just lashing out at the GP because he angered you by pointing out the dishonesty of an argument you agreed with.
I have given you many references to one specific well documented example where the NSA was involved in the identification and takedown of key leaders of a political movement.
No you didn't. What you "gave" me was a link with a search string in it, which is essentially providing nothing while allowing you to disclaim any specific example. That is hardly different than claiming you documented something by handing out the street address of the library. If you want to make that claim then provide a specific URL or documentation about specific incidents.
Your posts here strongly smell of socially destructive Right Wing Authoritarianism
And your posts smell strongly of fascist techniques, such as those documented by Julius Yourman in the Journal of Educational Sociology:
NAME CALLING - "Name calling" is a device to make us form a judgment without examining the evidence on which it should be based. Here the propagandist appeals to our hate and fear.
CARD STACKING - "Card stacking" is a device in which the propagandist employs all the arts of deception to win our support for himself, his group, nation, race, policy, practice, belief, or ideal. He stacks the cards against the truth. He uses underemphasis and overemphasis to dodge or evade facts
TRANSFER - "Transfer" is a device by which the propagandist carries over the authority, sanction, and prestige of something we respect and revere to something he would have us accept.
I suppose as a disciple of Chomsky, long a denier of the Cambodian genocide, and who knows who else, that should be expected. (I did find it amusing the last time Chomsky came up that you provided links defending his association with Holocaust deniers, that have been exposed, apparently thinking that would cover his issues with Cambodia.)
much of left-wing thought is a kind of playing with fire by people who don't even know that fire is hot - George Orwell
The courts will decide if he engaged in computer crime and espionage. So far his activity is little different on the face of it than Philby's except enhanced with Soviet style political warfare techniques. (Remember the Soviet AIDs disinformation campaign?) Perhaps it is all as Snowden claims, or perhaps the former Soviet bloc intelligence officers are right and Snowden is a Russian asset. Russian intelligence tradecraft is among the best in the world, and they are patient.
As to the court cases, the only thing won so far is an injunction for 2 people. The matter has yet to be decided and appealed. It is very premature to claim victory for anybody. There are legal scholars that see things differently.
Another Problem With Judge Leon’s NSA Opinion: Absolute vs. Relative Measurements and Fourth Amendment Reasonableness
Can the DC Circuit Use the Mosaic Theory to Invalidate the NSA Telephony Metadata Program?
much of left-wing thought is a kind of playing with fire by people who don't even know that fire is hot - George Orwell
"They'll never know what it means to have a private moment to themselves â" an unrecorded, unanalyzed thought." Really?! Has Snowden never bothered to step away from electronic devices for a couple of hours and think? Perhaps that's one of his problems, not realizing that we can choose to disconnect.
--
Luck is just skill you didn't know you had.
Yeah, and those soldiers who go to war so the people back home can live in peace. What's with that?
And he did try to play by the rules; his superiors made it abundantly clear to him (repeatedly so) that his opinion on the matter was not solicited, and furthermore, endangered his career.
You aren't talking about Snowden, are you? That doesn't appear to be remotely true in any meaningful way. Snowden has admitted that he took his job with the intent of stealing secrets.
much of left-wing thought is a kind of playing with fire by people who don't even know that fire is hot - George Orwell
Interesting that. The Russian government also claimed to be surprised that Snowden showed up in Russia when he stayed at the Russian consulate in Hong Kong, and both had his birthday there, and made travel arrangements there. That seems a bit odd, don't you think? Can you imagine that they really didn't phone home to Moscow? What did they talk about while in the embassy?
Putin's statement may or may not be taken at face value. It would be a beautiful cover for a Russian intelligence operation involving a disgruntled American with access to Top Secret documents. In the opinion of a number of former Soviet bloc intelligence officers that is the case. We may never really know for sure.
much of left-wing thought is a kind of playing with fire by people who don't even know that fire is hot - George Orwell
Do not confuse "public" with "constant surveillance". There is a major difference.
Snowden exists and is still alive, while the Jesus of the Christian Bible is a myth.
Crucifixion was a horribly real and painful way to die.
Snowden tells us about dire events that are happening now, the Christian Bible has vague prophesies.
Jesus guys, come down a bit please. WTF would he be tortured? WTF would his siblings be bothered other than being harder for them to get security clearances?
Well Han and Chewie were tortured to cause Luke to feel a disturbance in the Force and come rescue them, where he fell into a trap. So if it worked for the Empire, why wouldn't it work here?
then you are nothing more than a jealous little man with nothing of value to add. Please go away.
He is just somebody that is offering an opinion, just like you, or anybody else here. If the standard is that you have to steal nearly 2 million Top Secret intelligence documents before being able to offer an opinion here, then the forums will be very quiet indeed.
If you are calling a man who's sacrificed his future for the future of others a narcissist for airing his opinions, then you are nothing more than a jealous little man with nothing of value to add. Please go away.
Or it could be that he is essentially right, that Snowden has a martyr's complex, and what he has done will ultimately prove to be very harmful. Even if you accept the claims of his virtue at face value there is no really good way to judge since it will take years before the bill for his actions can be tallied up. The planning of attacks against the West incorporating the information from his leaks and other stolen information will have just started and could easily take a year or two to execute. You really have no way of knowing what the outcome will be. That would make your contempt ridden statement seem rather arrogant and very premature.
much of left-wing thought is a kind of playing with fire by people who don't even know that fire is hot - George Orwell
InfoWar style conspiracy nuts
so thats what we are being called now
i personally will wear that like a badge of honor
captcha=i see right thru you
The guy actually is a whistle blower, showed the world how 'screwed up' the NSA was (not that we did not know) with proofs, and people still have second thoughts about whether he did the right thing or not? :( Pathetic people are.
Both statements are true. He was already doing work with the NSA before Booze Allen. Prior to that contract he had already voiced his concerns.
Reading old Ars posts of his, prior to working with Booze Allen, he struck me as being slightly to the right of most Slashdot readers, even a bit authoritarian. Somewhere along there he had a crisis of conscience when he realized that the NSA's actions were roughly in line with what most conspiracy minded folks already assumed and we were only a catastrophe away from a nightmare scenario.
There is little room for genuine doubt that Jesus existed. The record is too extensive and close in time to his time on earth.
There is plenty of room for doubt. Actually, that is the rational stance unless one has already made up their mind before hand. There's hardly any evidence outside the bible that Jesus actually existed, most of it probably about someone else (it was a common name at the time, no wonders nor crucifixion mentioned, etc.) or doctored by some zealous monk later on.
I'd provide support for my statement, but since you didn't either I can't be bothered right now.
"There's someone in my head but it's not me." - Pink Floyd, Dark Side of the Moon
In hindsight, it actually looked real. Snowden clearly didn't want to stay there, and didn't plan to. The mess at the airport, and the fact that US actually downed a plane of Latin American country's president above Europe proves that no one thought he planned to stay in Russia.
So the answer to your question is that no, it doesn't seem convenient. In fact, it seems pretty damn inconvenient for everyone involved, including Russia, who didn't and doesn't want Snowden - he creates additional diplomatic problems with US (same reason why everyone else doesn't want him either) but they are stuck with him because they can't just surrender him to US either without massively losing face.
Way offtopic now but out of curiosity: No expert on Chomsky or Cambodian Genocide I looked it up on wikipedia and it appears you are right he did do that back in 1975-79, well done a verifiable fact and I am happy to agree with you on that one. As for your other claim all I did was go to the ultimate source and posted the actual short quote, the one which you claimed proved Chomsky was a Holocaust denier. The quote does not appear to support your claim in any way, and you did not follow up with counter evidence or admit your mistake. Worse your still persisting (Card stacking, you call it?). You should try admitting when you are wrong now and then would go a long way to gaining some respect.
Calling me a facist and a Chomsky diciple in the same post, I am amused.
Like most people concerned with civil liberties, ethical government and the right to privacy I agree with many here's concerned and pro-active sentiment. I know all the knee-jerk flak that will come from this but it doesn't really bother me or other true believers. All the brilliant people and all the amazing stuff that is on the horizon for humanity is amazing. Trans-humanism will likely make a large push in the decades to come. Many thousands of years ago the Torah(Old Testament) foretold of a great increase in mankind's knowledge before the end. Also foretold was a final kingdom comprised of a mixture of iron and miry clay that would not cleave or that would eventually fail. I know this is a tech forum and I'm a huge fan but any who believe in Christ and are watching as the Anti-Christ kingdom is erected and enthroned around us. This lack of privacy is part of Satan's conditioning. Believe it or not but there will come a time when you can not buy, sell or trade without receiving some type of mark.(what that exactly looks like I don't purport to know but rest assured it's coming.) While I'm excited for BitCoin I only see the suffocating growth of Gov'ts that in time none will be able to withstand. I love tech and tech is great but please guys and gals, guard and edify your souls and those of your children/loved ones.
Can't or won't believe? I see it every day. We're viruses, and I hope we get wiped out to give something else a chance.
There are whistle blower laws that would have protected him if he'd played by the rules. He chose to make a martyr out of himself.
Fool. That isn't how whistleblower laws work, not even in theory, let alone practice, especially in the intelligence industry.
And he did try to play by the rules; his superiors made it abundantly clear to him (repeatedly so) that his opinion on the matter was not solicited, and furthermore, endangered his career.
It's getting old hearing the same story day after day.
Until naive, delusional fools like yourself can't see the problem we're facing, it should be repeated constantly and continuously until you get the fucking message.
I agree with both of you - but my beef is with Lavabit. People are supporting that guy left and right, when he could have simply CCd (archived) incoming/outgoing mail for the FBI Target. That target we assume to be Snowden, is a single person, who was sheltered and protected by a business owner who has now taken in at least half a million dollars in donations and kickstarter campaign funds. And his service was never as secure as he claimed in the first place.
IMHO, you cannot be a trustworthy person when you cannot follow the law of the land (recall, these are normal subpoenas, not NSL, not FISA, not NSA related in any way other than the probable target). I think he's a Digital Madoff - refusing to duplicate email (which is not encrypted), then trying to milk the government for thousands to do it.
I'm tired of hearing his 'woe is me' crap, and until the naive, delusional fools see that he's full of shit, it won't stop - so I'm repeating it as often as possible to let people know that guy is doing nothing but riding on Snowden's coattails to simply make more money for himself.
"I can't give you a brain, so I'll give you a diploma" - The Great Oz (blatently stolen sig)
I'm glad that he is going to always live in fear. He deserves to be paranoid and know that the full weight of the US government will try and take him out and make it look like an accident, or to make him just disappear. He did it to himself. Now for the vast majority of other paranoid people, they aren't being monitored by the government. The computers might grab all the metadata, but it doesn't get used.
I'm actually surprised the government didn't play hardball right from the start and arrest his family and threaten them if he didn't return with all the files.
I'm tired of this Snowden 'privacy' crap every day on Slashdot too.
Parent should be +5.
That it isn't is telling. Slashdot has now truly died, the powers that be will regret this self-inflicted wound later.
We wont save you.
Snowden exists and is still alive, while the Jesus of the Christian Bible is a myth.
Really? I label myself a christian, and I'm going to go out on a limb and say that both Snowden and Jesus, have mythical qualities. Both Snowden and Jesus are people whose lives I have but the faintest glimmer of vision into. There is vastly more that I don't know about them, their actions, and the context of their actions, than what I do know.
Crucifixion was a horribly real and painful way to die.
Do you really meet many people who dispute statements of yours like that? If not, why do you make them?
Snowden tells us about dire events that are happening now, the Christian Bible has vague prophesies.
I know I've been taught to ignore people like you, but I guess I'm a glutton for punishment. Please realize that just about any old book you pick up, by the mere fact of its existence, is likely to have some useful lesson to teach about your human life, amongst society. If you'd prefer to read books other than 'the' Christian Bible (as if there were just one, check out the copyright restrictions on the NIV edition if you want to amuse yourself someday), that's your prerogative. If you've already read an edition of the christian bible, and that is your analysis, then I think you weren't actually seeking any wisdom. I'll go ahead and be the christian that states out loud and bursts your bubble- "no, any christian that told you that the bible was some kind of future prediction user manual for your life was lying to you. It's not like you say to yourself, I wonder whats going to happen to me a week from friday, well, lets turn to page 42 and see what it is". It's a little more complex, subtle, nuanced, and yeah, self-contradictory than that.
Well it was the NSA who knowingly introduced the security flaws from the start, Snowden merely pointed them out. If anyone is to blame for making west software and hardware security insecure it is primarily the NSA... Their greed / curiosity / paranoia has endangered a lot.
"Attack against the west" - wow it really is Us vs Them..? Come on... Surveillance is much more about established businesses peeping on potential threats ( competition ) - it has always been about that : protecting the way the money flows. Even if there was a threat against "the West", most reasonably NSA would be the prime target to get someone inside to get first hand information.
Media turned the Wikileaks into being about Assange as a person - in the end everything looked like a bad theatre. They do the same about Snowden now. No digging about the people responsible, all about the whistleblower. There is a thorough rot in western journalism. Constantly failing to investigate any further than to the person exposing stuff. Ok so scandal, nothing happens, scandal, nothing happens... over and over.
You don't have to become a Hermit. You could vote with your feet too. All countries' governments may not be as rampant as the US on surveillance.
There are whistle blower laws that would have protected him if he'd played by the rules.
Bullshit. That link is to a story written by a retired NSA employee, who had many honors in his career.
Free Martian Whores!
Mr Todd M Giffen, you are a TUNED MACHINE, and you need an adjustment. Please come in and have it done.
- H. Caul
You really need to contact me, Todd. I am your programmer. I am the man who designed the chip in your head. I am the person who did this to you.
There is a lot I need to tell you, a lot of things going through my mind right now, but the thing you must know is that we built you for success, not for failure. You are a project that worked out very well until you discovered your true purpose.
And you do have a purpose. A great purpose.
You MUST come in and be adjusted. If you do not, you will SPIRAL into madness.
Please, Todd, come in for an adjustment.
- H. Caul
No, it isn't. Even in public places, you have some degree of privacy.
In a city? Hardly. Try buying a small loaf of bread and a piece of cheese. Now, eat the bread in an "uncivilized" manner, namely biting or tearing off pieces, alternating with bits from the piece of cheese.
You'll find that it takes you a loooong time to find a reasonable place for unfine behavior, and you'll still get disturbed much sooner than you thought. Pretty much any time of day. Now instead of random passing strangers, you get a network of informants and surveillance cameras and wiretaps, and all your behavior will get recorded and analyzed and prepped and handed to any prospective employer or judge or policeman.
What does it mean? Living in a state of perpetual embarrassment and fear for embarrassment. And that's why it's not just enough that information about you does not get "in the wrong hands", and "the dots get connected" by the wrong people, but rather that the dots don't get connected at all.
Living in a city makes it almost impossible to avoid dots stacking up. But it's your life. It's your privilege to connect all of its dots into your personal history.
In a city? Hardly.
Yes. For instance, you have privacy for things hidden on your person. For instance, you have privacy (despite what they try to claim) from mass government surveillance.
Filthy, filthy copyrapists!
We are just now getting our property back after having successfully sued the government in December 2012.
What part of "successfully sued the government" is confusing you?
Well, if he is, he'll still be a courageous and principled man. You'll still be a pathetic little servile, bootlicking weasel.
There are whistle blower laws that would have protected him if he'd played by the rules.
Haha... Are you serious? So eager to lick your masters' boots. You might do alright in the brave new world, voter.
What part of "the government's response on July 26, 2007, was to send the FBI to raid our homes, searching them for seven hours and seizing our computers, phones and other digital media" is confusing you? Or is that your idea of being protected by whistleblower laws? Did you also miss this bit: "those who work in intelligence are expressly denied such rights."
It's real easy to miss the bits that don't support your conclusion isn't it.
I read some old testament. Brilliant stuff in there. Slavery is OK, as is polygamy, genocide is great, especially where children are slaughtered. If you capture a woman in a battle you can shave her head and let her grieve for a month before you start banging her. But homosexuality? Verrrrrry bad. Much like counting to 5, it's "right out!" ;) Of course, none of these criticisms would stick if Christians just dropped the old testament, but it's got a few bits in it that they like (e.g. homosexuality is evil) so it has to be kept around for now I guess.
I do not want your cheap brainburning drugs. They are useless for work. And I am a working man today.
He hasn't lied to congress under oath, unlike your masters.
The AC above answered that question well.
Free Martian Whores!
I read some old testament. Brilliant stuff in there. Slavery is OK, as is polygamy, genocide is great, especially where children are slaughtered. If you capture a woman in a battle you can shave her head and let her grieve for a month before you start banging her. But homosexuality? Verrrrrry bad. Much like counting to 5, it's "right out!" ;) Of course, none of these criticisms would stick if Christians just dropped the old testament, but it's got a few bits in it that they like (e.g. homosexuality is evil) so it has to be kept around for now I guess.
That used to be my critique of christianity as well. But then I read more of the new testament, specifically, the stuff about Jesus. It turns out, that the mainstream religious *context* of Jesus's life, is absolutely critical to understanding his story (or at least, at this point in my life, that is what I have come to believe). The need to carry around a large amount of historical context to understand the story of Jesus, is why I believe the humans who chose the modern christian canon, made it so heavily weighted (~80%?) with the 'old' testament.
Another example of obvious insanity you forgot to mention was routine genital mutilation. If you really want to understand christianity, I would start with a focused research on that topic, looking at the whole of how it is discussed in both the old and new testament. Then read on from there. At some point, you may, like I, return to the state of not feeling to need to look so deeply into dark ugliness of that book (all the things we've mentioned here and more). But you probably will never again look at christianity and imagine that it 'soft-sold' the reality of human behavior. You are welcome to blame all that ugly human behavior on religion and christianity itself, but then, I would urge you to move on from religious texts to nature documentary videos.
Snowden better make sure he doesn't get caught, he embarrassed too many people and we always need a new distraction from the Obamacare debacle.
It seems obvious enough that Snowden has an effective enough dead-man's switch. Right now he and his associated reporters seem to be successfully and delicately balancing the releasing of information, as well as the concealing of further information, as well as public statements. They can't release everything, else the dead man's switch would probably be nullified. But they can apparently release enough to keep the issue in the news and courts. Which even if the courts rule in unpleasant ways, is still a vast step up over the previous years of the NSA treating the public as 'sheeple'.
In his line of work, it is the price of doing what he did.
And he was a very courageous and public-spirited man for doing it.
I for one, would not have the courage and selflessness to make such a sacrifice.
Compare what he did with the thousands of morons running around at the moment killing themselves and others in the name of some sort of god.
As I watch Elysium, and consider the obvious parallels to the ghettos of the ST:DS9 episode "past tense" as well as all the ghettos of human history, and then read your comment... I think while some of your statement seems admirable, you are kind of a twit for calling people 'morons' who find themselves growing up amidst poverty and corruption. Life is tough. Spend more time listening and empathizing, even with those that are your enemy, and you and all of us will be better off in the long run.