PC Makers Plan Rebellion Against Microsoft At CES

Velcroman1 writes "Fearing rapidly plummeting sales of traditional laptops and desktop computers — which fell by another 10 percent or so in 2013 — manufacturers are planning a revolt against Microsoft and the Windows operating system, analysts say. At the 2014 CES in Las Vegas, multiple computer makers will unveil systems that simultaneously run two different operating systems, both Windows and the Android OS that powers many of the world's tablets and smartphones, two different analysts said recently. The new devices will be called 'PC Plus' machines, explained analyst Tim Bajarin. 'A PC Plus machine will run Windows 8.1 but will also run Android apps as well,' Bajarin wrote. Another analyst put the threat to Windows bluntly: 'This should scare the heck out of Microsoft.'"

Comments

Ugh

[binarylarry]

Who the fuck wants this? Sure, Windows sucks but why would cramming a shitty OEM version of Android make things better?

Re:Ugh

[Anonymous Coward]

Probably won't be able to disable SecureBoot. That's what makes it better!

Re:Ugh

[brxndxn]

I, for one.. I'm running Slackware now since Windows 8 pissed me off over and over. Slackware isn't great either - but at least it's something worth learning. I don't see Microsoft continuing being the only dominant player in the future.

Windows 8 has got to be the main reason laptop and PC sales have plummeted. Nobody likes the fucking interface on a PC and nobody wants to buy a new PC that forcefeeds you Windows 8 when they already have Windows 7.

Windows 8 is an asshole operating system. It was designed by a guy that decided to be an asshole and only have asshole programmers join him. It was designed so that you can only multitask when Windows 8 decides you can multitask. Did you launch 'full screen' Internet Explorer? You did? Ha! There's no way to move it back to a window. Because fuck you! Guess what? Here's a start menu. And, it only launches bullshit by default. Oh, you have a PC? We will go ahead and optimize it for a tablet anyway. Oh, you don't have a touchscreen monitor? We'll continue to act like you have a touchscreen. You have a sound card issue? You and like 10,000 other people? We will continue to act like you don't know how to update the drivers for the sound card and we will continue to act like it's your fault. Windows 8 crashed on you? We will continue to act like it never crashes and is the most stable piece of software marvel ever.

Fuck Windows 8. I've never had a piece of software piss me off more so quickly.. and I deal with old industrial software and IT for my career. I would love to see a revolt.

And, if you're a programmer for Windows 8, fuck you too.

Re:Ugh

[gweihir]

I completely agree. Got a new netbook with Win8 and tried to make it dual-boot with Linux. After that proved to be difficult, I had a look at Win8 and decided it was really not worth my time to try to keep it. The netbook now runs Linux only and works nicely as Internet terminal and media-player, and in addition I can use it as a proper Linux machine as well. There is absolutely no need for Windows anymore, except for Gaming (holding my thumbs that Valve will be able to make a dent in that) and editing MS Office documents.

Re:Ugh

[hairyfeet]

Well if they do it right it can be damned nice and useful. I have a EEE netbook that has both Win 7 X64 and Expressgate and I have to say that when i just need to check my email, find out some quick fact, do a price check on a part for a customer? Having an OS that is ready to go in under 6 seconds is pretty damned handy.

So don't think of it as a "dual boot", think of it as a fast limited mobile OS and a bigger slower full featured OS where you choose what would be best for your needs at that moment. If done right this could fix my one complaint about Expressgate, which was how big of a PITA it was to add new apps. If I could get the speed of Expressgate combined with the ease of adding apps through Google Play? Sounds like a winner to me. Its just too bad it'll probably be impossible for guys like me to simply replace Expressgate with Android as I'm quite happy with my netbook and really don't see a point on sinking a pile of money for a new unit when this one runs great.

Re:Ugh

[tepples]

How would a "pure Android desktop" work? Last time I checked, Applications for Android, for example, were allowed to assume that the screen size never changes after installation. This led to a window management policy of all maximized all the time, which isn't always the best choice for a 21-24" desktop monitor.

Re:Ugh

[Kensai7]

Personally, games was the last domain that kept me from ditching Windows (as they have evolved), so SteamOS is a gift from heaven, especially in the direction it is going. Microsoft should be scared to do more. Enough is enough with their dominating position. It reminds me of European cellular phone manufacturers (Nokia, Ericsson) before Apple came to shake their realities with the iPhone.

Re:Ugh

[Mr0bvious]

Windows 8 has got to be the main reason laptop and PC sales have plummeted

While I'm no lover of Windows OS's (I not a big user, Linux has been my staple for 10 - 15 years) I'm not convinced it is the major cause for the drop in desktop sales. I see other reason as being greater contributors.

1) A good proportion (I speculate) of former PC sales were to people who used the PC to "consume", being media, Internet, email, games and whatnot - these PC are obviously overkill and cumbersome for the task (locked to the desk). The rise of tablets and mobile devices that are plenty capable of performing this role has caused this echelon of users to dump their PCs and migrate to their phone or tablet (a better and more convenient tool for that job (consumption) IMO).

2) There is another echelon of users who are not 'power users' their 5 year old PC is just fine for the tasks they perform. PC's are very over powered for a good lot of users, as long as their machine boots and they can get to their browser then their PC is still good enough - no need to replace. This may have been the case for many years so I expect this has less influence than (1).

But I don't believe people are as fussy about their OS as the vocal ones would suggest - most are happy if their browser will open.

I am by no means giving a vote for or against Windows 8 (or any OS) I don't have strong feelings either way. But I strongly doubt that it's a major contributor (perhaps a minor one).

Re:Ugh

[Jarik C-Bol]

Sounds a lot like windows 8.

Re:Ugh

[Paradigma11]

Probably won't be able to disable SecureBoot. That's what makes it better!

If it is a certified for Windows 8 x86 machine then it MUST be possible to disable SecureBoot. But you probably already knew that.

Yeah right.

[JeremyMorgan]

Laptops and Desktops don't need "apps" and people aren't going to buy them to play Angry Birds and Snapchat all day.

If you want to make a move away from Windows give them an OS that can actually do something useful. Nobody is trying to replace their phone with a laptop.

Re:Yeah right.

[fermion]

People are going to buy computers to do stuff. Email, facebook, ms word, that is what the average users says they do on the computer. One big problem with netbooks was that people assumed that could MS Word, and when they found out they couldn't they returned the computer. This is a solution where OEMs can expose people to other OS while still allowing MS Office to run. Maybe some people realize that they don't need MS Office. Maybe they don't want to pay a monthly fee for Office and realize that Google Docs or OpenOffice is sitting right there fore free. Maybe the next computer they buy doesn't have MS WIndows.

This is scary enough that MS, allegedly, has in the past prevented OEM from installing two OS. The last thing MS wants a computer user to know is there is another OS. Look at the misinformation on the Mac, how expensive it is, when my last Macbook Air was $1000. Yes, more expensive that they mythicla $300 MS laptop that runs everything, but about what a good laptop costs. We can argue price, but MS is scared of users knowing there is choice.

We also see this in past EULA in which certain versions of MS Windows could not be the guest OS. This is likely the future of the PC. A reasonably functional and free client OS on top of which a virtualized guest OS can be run. This is basically what MS is doing now with the instant upgrade. Start with a functionality locked out, and buy a full OS after the fact. Like the Mainframe manufacturers used to do. You have all the hardware, but have to pay extra to use it.

Re:Yeah right.

[redmid17]

Windows 8 lets you do all of those OOB except the miniature programs. I want to arrange icons in a meaningful way on a desktop, both programs and functions. - same as Win 7. You can lay them out how you want.

I want to extend the right click context menu - same as Win 7-zip managed to add itself to my context menu. I rarely add anything to it but it's clearly possible

I want to be able to have a variety of windows of various sizes open, not just full, 1/4, 3/4. - same as Win 7. You can manually resize windows. Using the snap feature obviously is going to change that, and the Metro app annoyingly default to full screen. I avoid that by not using them.

I'd like to be able to type the first X letters of a program, have a self-shrinking list of all executable on my computer narrow down as I type (the start menu functionality) - same as Win 7. Hit the windows key and start typing.

Maybe I was missing something but a lot of that list is unnecessary criticism. There are plenty of valid criticisms of Windows 8 and 8.1, but 95% of it can simply be bypassed by choosing "boot to desktop" or just hitting the desktop tile when you log in. It's dumb it came to that but should hardly be that much of a detriment to a Slashdotter.

So this is the way it ends

[Anonymous Coward]

Microsoft, past giant of the operating system industry, will die not to OS X, not to Ubuntu, not to FreeBSD, Redhat, not to ReactOS, Plan 9, Gentoo, Hurd, BeOS, the vengeful ghost of OS/2, but to an OS designed for cell phones.

Well, okay, I guess.

What might scare MS

[transporter_ii]

A dual boot Windows 8.1 and Steam OS machine. I'm not really feeling the need for Android on a PC. Anyone else?

Any movement away from Microsoft is good.

[mosb1000]

Windows sucks but why would cramming a shitty OEM version of Android make things better?

Any movement away from a Microsoft dominated software market is probably a step in the right direction. As for the question of whether anyone will use these features, I will withhold judgment until I can actually see them.

Re:Any movement away from Microsoft is good.

[recoiledsnake]

It isn't necessarily better. For example, you have a lot of system level software under Windows that you can't even sell for iOS and on Chromebooks. And on Android, your users need root before using them, which very few people have. Not to mention the 30% cut of all revenue on both the big mobile stores. In people's rush to hate MS, everyone's promoting even more restrictive software and data being stored in the cloud which users have no control over.

Linus says it best: Microsoft hatred is a disease
http://www.osnews.com/story/21887/Linus_Microsoft_Hatred_is_a_Disease

I think the Microsoft hatred is a disease. I believe in open development, and that very much involves not just making the source open, but also not shutting other people and companies out.

  There are 'extremists' in the free software world, but that's one major reason why I don't call what I do 'free software' any more. I don't want to be associated with the people for whom it's about exclusion and hatred."

Re:Any movement away from Microsoft is good.

[lgw]

That's just it. Mobile devices have already sent the message loud and clear. A PC that still pays the Windows tax? Not so scary.

I find Android even more annoying than Metro on a real KVM setup - I can't imagine using it unless some app I really needed was Android-only (and I've yet to find an app I cared that much about). Android just isn't a viable threat on a desktop.

Mobile computing is an entirely different landscape, of course, and clearly it finally hit home with MS that they weren't winning there with their past strategy, as their big reorg seems focused on fixing that - for sure it will at least change it.

You know, I like C# and Visual Studio - if I could easily write code that would run across not just all the Windows platforms, but Android and IOS too - and with a UI that looks native on each platform, like QT does - that would be a wonderful thing.

Come to think of it, I wonder whether there a nice C#/QT interface yet that works well in Mono - anyone know? Or have another good cross-platform UI approach using Mono? Xamarin seems proud of what they have - anyone know?

Re:Any movement away from Microsoft is good.

[Anonymous Coward]

Doesn't work. Microsoft doesn't allow the full support in Mono... Little things would work, but the more extensive support just isn't there.

And it is under constant thread from Microsoft for lawsuits.

Re:Any movement away from Microsoft is good.

[Anonymous Coward]

This ISN;T a step in the right direction. Putting a shitty alternative OS on will just persuade people NOT to look elsewhere. They either need to do it right or not at all, this will help MS not hurt them.

Re:Any movement away from Microsoft is good.

[JoeBehymer]

http://xamarin.com/ Here's a good place to start: http://hanselminutes.com/362/ios-and-android-apps-with-xamarin-studio-20-and-miguel-de-icaza There are examples of games with of 95% code re-use across Windows Phone, iOS, and Android.

Re:Any movement away from Microsoft is good.

[Sique]

Of course hating corrupt politicians is a disease. Hate blinds you. Working to get rid of corrupt politicians requires something completely different than hate. At first it requires some knowledge about politics in general and how it actually works. And then you will notice that one of the reasons the politician you hate so much never listens to you is that you refuse to talk to him.

Re:Any movement away from Microsoft is good.

[Runaway1956]

I share that sentiment. To bad that it's happening about 20 years later than it should have. I have no sympathy for struggling PC makers. All of the top dogs in the industry cooperated for a couple decades in feeding that behemoth known as Microsoft. They have been happily paying that Microsoft Tax, and passing the cost on to the end users. I would be perfectly happy to see some of those big dogs go bankrupt. Smaller companies that have struggled to supply alternate OS's and no-OS machines may finally get a well deserved break here.

Like yourself, I'll withhold judgement. When I'm ready to purchase new hardware, if I can buy good hardware and install Linux without a problem, I'll be quite happy. If it proves difficult to install Linux, I'll be less happy. My happiness will decrease with the amount of difficulty involved.

Re:Any movement away from Microsoft is good.

[Runaway1956]

Google's dirty tactics include using and selling personal information on end users. They also include purchasing interesting and/or rival companies at fair prices, as opposed to just running rivals out of business. Google has some evil ways, but nothing to compare to Microsoft's history.

Apple has their pretty little walled garden, but they don't mess with the unwashed masses outside that garden. They work pretty aggressively to protect the stuff inside that garden, but they've never actively worked to undermine companies and OS's that stay well outside of that garden.

Microsoft, on the other hand, should have been broken up into multiple companies long ago when the government was accusing them of monopoly abuse. The behemoth has done a lot of harm in the computing world. It has done some good, but not nearly so much real good as some people think.

Personally, I still resent the AARD code that contributed to the collapse of DRDOS. DRDOS was superior to most other DOS operating systems in some ways - among others, it was the first to achieve 32 bit disk access. With a level playing field, I'm pretty certain that DRDOS would have remained in the game, and contributed much more to computer science. No one can possibly say where computing might be today, had Microsoft not worked hard to shut other players out of the field. Android may never have happened for instance - something much better may have been developed, and much sooner instead. Certainly, Linux would have advanced faster if there had been more active support from hardware vendors.

Re:Any movement away from Microsoft is good.

[Eravnrekaree]

Mono cannot allow an easy path to allow code written for .NET to run on Linux when it does not support major parts of .NET, the presentation foundation. This severely limits portability as well as functionality for developers. Few developers will care about Mono as a result.

Re:Any movement away from Microsoft is good.

[Runaway1956]

Made which founders of which companies very rich? I'd have to do some searching, but I believe that Bill Gates bought Windows for mere hundreds of dollars.

There are very good reasons that Microsoft has lost litigation multiple times to the tune of hundreds of millions of dollars.

I have already granted that Google does some evil shit. I rather like Google, but I'm not blind to the bad stuff they do. Microsoft, on the other hand, is guilty of just about every crime of which a business can be guilty of, short of murder. Gates is ruthless, and the company he founded shares that characteristic.

That AARD code I mentioned above - have you ever looked at it? A few lines that instruct Microsoft software to check for the underlying operating system on which it is to be installed. If any system fails to report that it is a Microsoft system, the software simply refuses to install. There was no good reason for that - it was just anti-competitive bullshit.

Perspective. I repeat part of what I stated above. Microsoft has done more to hinder computer science than either Google or Apple. I mean, they have actively blocked advancement in many lines of research. There are no really "clean" players up there in the stratosphere, but Microsoft is just plain dirty.

I will note that Google has pulled out of China. It seems that whatever evil Google has committed, they might have a conscience. Can you make any such claim for Microsoft? Please don't tell me about the Gates Foundation. I view that nonsense the same as I view the pyramids. AFTER have destroyed dozens of companies and thousands of careers, Gates wants to achieve some kind of immortality with his "charitable works". Screw Gates. I have more respect for Jobs, who remained a selfish egomaniac until his dying day. I have far more respect for those goofy kids who founded Google. They screw up, but they are far better people than Gates or Jobs, IMHO.

 

Re:Any movement away from Microsoft is good.

[Runaway1956]

"A few dodgy business practices"

There are pages and pages of those practices.

"Netscape and DRDOS lost out, big fucking whoop."

Embrace, extend, extinguish. Every end user on the planet has lost out due to Microsoft's greed. Netscape and Digital Research are only two names at the beginning of a long, long, LONG list.

"They didn't kill anyone,"

I already stated as much. Perhaps it is you who needs to get a grip.

Tell us - what is YOUR interest in Microsoft?

Morons

[Karmashock]

If they want to scare MS then they need to get behind a linux distro. Any of the polished ones it doesn't really matter.

You've got Steam pushing a linux gaming line... why would you go for anything besides linux IF you're trying to unseat MS?

This is idiotic and doomed to tragic failure.

Re:Morons

[SuricouRaven]

Most people who use computers these days have a very minimal idea of how they work. You don't truely understand this until you work in tech support. I could tell you some horror stories...

- The user who organised their files for years by using file->save as on word, because they didn't know you could click 'my computer' or 'my documents' and get a window intended for the task.
- The user who accidentially associated PDF files with word and could only report the problem as 'my email broke.'
- The user who had to call helpdesk for instruction on how to launch Word, after the shortcut was shuffled off the start menu quick-list.

Many users don't get the concept of a program. Or a URL. Or a file - they know there is a little picture they click on to open a document, but they think this little picture *is* the document. That's why you see so many of them attaching shortcuts to emails. They don't even know what an operating system is - and they are incapable of understanding, as they lack the foundational knowledge of how computers work. Now imagine the tech support nightmare that would come from giving them linux, even a polished distro.

For thirty years the technology industry has strived to make computers so easy, so simple that any untrained user can use them productively. Well, we succeeded, and now we must deal with the consequence. We've created a situation where any untrained user can sit at their computer and do their job, getting on with their objective without wasting overhead time on studying the technology itsself. That's good thing, mostly. The down-side is that if anything changes, even the most trivial thing, they are completly unprepared.

Maybe it's time MS gave out thier OS for free

[t0qer]

I see it as the only way to compete with android. Just give it out, completely free. Still charge for the server level OS's and support, but for a desktop, MS makes money from plenty of other areas. Office is still a cash cow. Xbox is a profit center.

Google makes its money from their "free" OS through the app store. They also have a pretty neat ecosystem and various ways app makers can make money (in app advertising) They control the entire ecosystem. If MS could do the same with windows, I think we'd see the desktop come back.

Why? Developer Developers Developers. And Games.

[SuperKendall]

Sure, Windows sucks but why would cramming a shitty OEM version of Android make things better?

Because there are a LOT of Android developers now, who would be very tempted to write for this...

But also from the user side, presumably you could play Android games, buying them at Android prices instead of Windows prices (or playing them for free, the dark unfortunate secret of Android).

it's not Microsoft

[bhcompy]

The problem isn't Microsoft or Windows, it's the method of consumption. People are more than happy to consume on cellphones and tablets, and desktop OS's don't fit into that paradigm. If Metro was more powerful/open and had application support, it would be a good idea to allow people to access all their purchases(media, applications, etc) across desktops and mobile devices, but it's not. I guess that's a Microsoft problem, but Android(and every other mobile OS) is equally bad as a desktop OS and none of the dedicated desktop OS's are any good as mobile/touch OS's(fuck you, Ubuntu/Unity).

The reality is that desktops are dying for a typical person's use and consumption. They're going to return to being workstations for the most part.

A bunch of someones didn't do the required reading

[Chas]

Why the hell would this scare Microsoft?

Microsoft is ALREADY making billions off Android royalties.

Plus these vendors are already contractually obligated to pay the Microsoft tax REGARDLESS of what OS they load onto a system.

This would be a perfect trifecta for Redmond. Microsoft will just look at this and go "We'll get a royalty? WIN! We'll still get our OS tax? WIN! We don't have to support it? WIN!"

I don't see it

[roc97007]

At first I thought they would allow dual boot -- Windows or Android. Then, I could buy one and just boot Android and leave it there. On the rare occasions when I needed Windows, (for instance, to run Adobe Lightroom, which hasn't yet been ported to Android) I could boot into that.

But according to TFA, this is Android on Windows, or the ability to run Android applications on Windows 8. This sounds less like "two operating systems at once" and more like the Android API running on Windows.

This is exceedingly uninteresting. The problem with Windows 8 is the revolting GUI, and this does not fix that. Wake me when you release a tablet that will run Windows apps on Android.

Moreover, this is no particular threat to Windows. It perhaps gives a boost to the Windows 8 ecosystem by tying in whatever Androids applications happen to run (you know it won't be 100%), but the box still runs Windows, and doesn't run anything other than Windows. This is no threat to Microsoft at all, and is not a "rebellion".

Kevin Kline voice: DisapPOINTed!

People!

[roc97007]

People people people! Read TFA! These laptops are running Windows and not anything but Windows. This "two OSs at once" crap is just that. They support the Android API, so (some) Android apps will run on Windows. That's all. There's a lot less here than meets the eye.

So there's no use saying they should have picked Chrome OS or Linux or some other OS to run in conjunction with the Windows OS, because they're not running anything but the Windows OS. Sorry to be a buzzkill.

Re:Why not Windows 7

[SuricouRaven]

Or throw their money and expert knowledge behind linux. It might mean a bit of restructuring - they'd probably want their own organisation making whatever distro they go with - but it could be done. Not likely to happen though, because most OEM manufacturers don't wish to also be software companies.

Google Play Store

[tepples]

What makes Android better than any other distro?

Google Play Store has a large selection of Android applications, especially in categories that free software tends not to touch, such as games and video-on-demand players. Other distros might catch up should more games and clients for VOD services get ported to SteamOS (and thus to GNU/Linux), but that isn't guaranteed to happen.

Re:Google Play Store

[Bert64]

Going to arbitrary websites to download and subsequently execute binaries is extremely dangerous, and significantly disadvantages small vendors... How is a random user supposed to know that the website they've been to and the file they just downloaded is trustworthy and not some piece of malware?

As long as we're quoting Linus

[symbolset]

Really, I'm not out to destroy Microsoft. That will just be a completely unintentional side effect. - Linus Torvalds

Propane cars

[EmperorOfCanada]

After MS started this whole MSDN certified shop philosophy they realized that they could trap people into their ecosystem. Nearly every product they have come up with since has not been a very good product but another attempt to lock people in. Sharepoint would be a near perfect example. It seems to be designed to be a MS glue that where you needed MS SQL, MS Server, MS Office, MS Outlook, MS Explorer, and MS Windows to make it work. Take any bit away and no more sharepoint. There would be no slowly migrating away from that one. MS probably looked at how they killed WordPerfect and Novell and said, "We won't let anyone get a thin edge of a wedge into our ecosystem like we did to them."

But they let things stagnate so much that when mobile came along all they could think about was protecting their eco system. So instead of coming up with a lightweight tablet they made the surface that integrates with their eco system.

So basically it seems that MS has become a company that is entirely based upon fooling people into making bad decisions.

But this might seem like a good idea to keep customers from leaking away. The problem is that when they do leave they leave entirely and are never coming back unless their new system sucks even more. Where this is real problem is that the MS system can really suck without losing too many customers due to inertia. But as history has repeatedly shown people don't leave one stagnant tradition for a slightly better one, they leave for something completely new and often quite different.

An interesting example from history was the end of whale oil; it was around $1900 per barrel (today's prices) while crude oil was around $90 a barrel. This put more and more pressure for people to figure out how to extract useful replacements from crude. When they did still people kept on with Whale oil but then suddenly "petroleum" products wiped out the whale oil industry almost overnight. Once the trend started there was nothing the whale industry could do; it was over.

I would say that MS is in a very bad place. Customers who switch to mobile are entirely eliminating MS from their minds. Not out of hate or revenge but simply they don't see an use for MS products in their lives. Of course some people are still using MS office to type a bit and Excel to add up a few numbers but the vast majority would be perfectly happy with Office 97.

So as I say MS has a business model based upon people making bad decisions. But now many people aren't even seeing MS as one of their options.

CrossOver

[emblemparade]

The MS Office requirement used to be a big deal for me, until I recently gave CrossOver a whirl. It supports "only" Office 2010, not 2013, but I found that it works perfectly well, no bugs yet (and I use it a lot). So, for me, CrossOver solved the last hurdle requiring Windows.