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Australian Dept. Store Chain's Website Crashes and Can't Get Back Up

Posted by timothy on from the work-calmly-and-rationally-instead dept.

McGruber writes "Myer, Australia's largest department store chain, has closed its website 'until further notice' at the height of the post-Christmas (and Australian summer) sales season. The website crashed on Christmas Day and has been down ever since. This means Myer will see no benefit for those days from booming domestic online sales, which were tipped to hit $344 million across the retail sector on Boxing Day alone. Teams from IBM and Myer's information technology division were 'working furiously' to fix the problem."

156 comments

  1. Surprised at IBM... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Maybe it is how times change, but in the past, anything from Big Blue would be extremely reliable. I'm surprised that something like this would have issues, barring some stupid software glitches that are not hardware/OS/DB2 related.

    1. Re:Surprised at IBM... by stox · · Score: 4, Informative

      The quality of IBM has been dropping for some time, and their customers are beginning to notice. This is especially true for e-commerce applications.

      --
      "To those who are overly cautious, everything is impossible. "
    2. Re:Surprised at IBM... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I think you are living in the past. IBM hasn't been something you associate with reliable for over a decade now. Even their support has gone to shit over the past few years,

    3. Re:Surprised at IBM... by sjames · · Score: 4, Insightful

      IBM believed it could cut every corner and go the cheap labor route and nobody would notice while their profits soared. They are wrong.

    4. Re:Surprised at IBM... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      Much of what IBM is pushing these days is third party software they bought and renamed "Websphere Enterprise Blah Blah Blah Solution". It's overpriced, slow, buggy, and very difficult to integrate. The company I work for was an IBM partner until we threw them out, we're now transitioning to open source alternatives.

    5. Re:Surprised at IBM... by stox · · Score: 1

      You can cut fat for just so long before you cut muscle and bone. They were on the verge of death in the 1990's, we'll have to see if they can reinvent themselves once again.

      --
      "To those who are overly cautious, everything is impossible. "
    6. Re:Surprised at IBM... by sjames · · Score: 2

      Further, since the initial cost of cutting too deep is loss of resilience, it's easy to go beyond the point of no return without noticing.

    7. Re:Surprised at IBM... by Sardaukar86 · · Score: 1

      Further, since the initial cost of cutting too deep is loss of resilience, it's easy to go beyond the point of no return without noticing.

      A deeply insightful comment. Finding a balance here is obviously the goal but as I've no idea how to measure resilience (at a company level) this seems to me like a non-trivial challenge for a juggernaut like IBM.

      No excuses though - IBM at least has the money and the clout to approach the problem intelligently and figure this out for themselves.

      --
      ..Mullah or Pope, Preacher or Poet, who was it wrote: "Give any one species too much rope and they'll fuck it up"?
    8. Re:Surprised at IBM... by sjames · · Score: 1

      If there is a good way to measure corporate resilience, I have never heard of it. Absent that, the best approach is to accept that 100% efficiency is not sustainable and instead aim for 10% more production people than you believe would be 100% efficient.

      The 10% is pulled right out of thin air. If production demand is highly volatile, 10% may not be enough.

      The same sort of policy should probably be applied to JIT logistics as well before we get to the point that a single flat tire can crash civilization.

  2. Cost center only? by whoever57 · · Score: 4, Insightful

    Another company that sees its IT department as a cost center only and not a part of the company responsible for bringing in revenue?

    Now, perhaps, its management will have another thought about that, but probably not -- probably they are thinking about assigning blame and who should get fired.

    --
    The real "Libtards" are the Libertarians!
    1. Re:Cost center only? by SumDog · · Score: 2

      Most retails outlets have freezes on any production changes from after Thanksgiving until at least January. More likely it's either a load issue or DoS

    2. Re:Cost center only? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Thanksgiving is completely irrelevant to an AU based story.

    3. Re:Cost center only? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Like hell! Next you'll try and tell me the Aussies didn't dump Fosters into the Boston Harbor.

    4. Re:Cost center only? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Which could've been averted with better I.T. work.

    5. Re:Cost center only? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 4, Funny

      What the bloody hell is thanksgiving mate?

    6. Re:Cost center only? by whoever57 · · Score: 4, Informative

      Most retails outlets have freezes on any production changes from after Thanksgiving until at least January

      As others have pointed out, Thanksgiving isn't really "a thing" in Australia, however, taking your premise that changes should not be made in the run-up to Christmas, Myer doesn't seem to have followed your suggestion. Myer changed their externally facing hosting technologies on November 27.

      --
      The real "Libtards" are the Libertarians!
    7. Re:Cost center only? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      IBM is involved. sounds more like the poor suckers bought into Tivoli or one of there other PoS offerings that comes with the 100 highly paid grad students to install it.... incorrectly.

    8. Re:Cost center only? by grasshoppa · · Score: 1

      It hurts how relevant this cynicism is to corporate america. Having had the...um..."pleasure", of working for several stores ( grocery, retail and a few specialty. Best not to ask ), large and small, IT is treated with, at best, neglect. Usually, however, it's more along the lines of resentment. Like they feel pressured to allocate budget money to IT that they feel might be better put towards anything else, but since everyone else is doing it they feel like they should too.

      And it shows.

      --
      Mod me down with all of your hatred and your journey towards the dark side will be complete!
    9. Re:Cost center only? by joew · · Score: 5, Insightful

      Would be the best thing to do with Fosters.

    10. Re:Cost center only? by jonwil · · Score: 2

      Yeah hold the "Sydney Beer Party" as a way to protest the latest increase in the excise duty on alcohol :)

    11. Re:Cost center only? by thegarbz · · Score: 1

      Another company that sees its IT department as a cost center only and not a part of the company responsible for bringing in revenue?

      Now, perhaps, its management will have another thought about that, but probably not -- probably they are thinking about assigning blame and who should get fired.

      No probably they are thinking that online sales makes up a tiny pittance of in store boxing day sales.

      For us boxing day is like your black friday sales except with far less computer and online stuff moving.

    12. Re:Cost center only? by mjwx · · Score: 4, Interesting

      Another company that sees its IT department as a cost center only and not a part of the company responsible for bringing in revenue?

      Now, perhaps, its management will have another thought about that, but probably not -- probably they are thinking about assigning blame and who should get fired.

      I have no doubt Coles/Myer do that but the problem is far, far worse.

      Coles/Myer deliberately dont want Australians shopping online, not just at Myer but anywhere online because products are so ridiculously overpriced in Australian retail stores it's not funny. You're looking at paying 50-250% more just by purchasing the product in Australia rather than from an overseas vendor or even an Australian vendor that practices drop shipping who pays Australian wages and taxes (so there goes the wages and taxes arguments).

      Retailers and distributors deliberately keep prices high because historically Australians have never had a choice. Then along came the internet with overseas shipping and all of a sudden revenue dropped. The golden cow they've milked to a husk finally stopped giving milk. Now the old box retailers like Coles/Myer are upset about it. They've been doing everything from trying to raise a tax on overseas sales to suing dropshippers, pretty much everything except competing in an attempt to go back to the glory days when Australians had no choice but to suck up their stupidly high prices.

      So it's less incompetence on Myer's planning part and more a complete failure in Coles/Myer's business model.

      --
      Calling someone a "hater" only means you can not rationally rebut their argument.
    13. Re:Cost center only? by jonbryce · · Score: 1

      It is a feast we have in our local church on the last Sunday in September to thank God for the harvest.

    14. Re:Cost center only? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      Bullshit. It's still the retail sector's biggest time of year, even if the US mythopoetic trappings are meaningless here.

    15. Re:Cost center only? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Struth, this is just getting more and more confusing - what the bloody hell is a church and who is this God fella you reckon you need to thank?

      Crikey, Sunday's a day for sink'n tinnies at the footy.

    16. Re: Cost center only? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Myer changed their externally facing hosting technologies on November 27.

      Thanksgiving was in Nov 28 this year.

    17. Re: Cost center only? by Threni · · Score: 1

      They are doing the needful! I'm sure stack overflow is full of "Sir, how do I start IIS? I'm getting error like password incorrect. Please to be telling me password".

    18. Re:Cost center only? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      oc this is the way it works. IT on level it works well is complex i.e. expensive. On level it works well enough most of the time and fails on occassion is much much cheaper. The question is then when the failure occurs and how difficult it is to get a fix (or work around - bean counters do not know the difference and consequences anyway).

      Seen from another angle the companies are best if operated on good enough level. The problem is that to notice where that is you have to know (or trust somebody who does) or find out the hard way by crossing the line. For CEO corssing the line may be actually a justifiable risk to show he can manage the company as if the line is not crossed the expense on IT is not justified and can bring a lawsuite. Such is life.

    19. Re:Cost center only? by tomhath · · Score: 1

      September?

    20. Re: Cost center only? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      You do know that Coles/Myer parted ways many many moons ago and are not the same company?

    21. Re: Cost center only? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      Hosted by iprimus. Get your facts right

    22. Re:Cost center only? by tompaulco · · Score: 1

      "Fosters. It's Australian for beer" ... brewed in Canada.

      --
      If you are not allowed to question your government then the government has answered your question.
    23. Re:Cost center only? by ColdWetDog · · Score: 1

      Struth, this is just getting more and more confusing - what the bloody hell is a church and who is this God fella you reckon you need to thank?

      Crikey, Sunday's a day for sink'n tinnies at the footy.

      Would you please speak English?

      --
      Faster! Faster! Faster would be better!
    24. Re:Cost center only? by conoviator · · Score: 1

      I briefly worked for a small grocery chain a few years ago in Bellingham, WA. IT personnel were of a much lower caste. Never mind that the whole operation would have almost immediately ceased to function if the technology folks took a walk en masse. Grocery operations culture placed a very large value on antiquated rituals, rather than useful new industry approaches. I recall how the clueless CEO and his direct reports would gather every few days in the BIG MEETING ROOM to strategize about next week's coupons -- coupons printed in the junk mail flyers that most folks probably just tossed directly into the recycle bin.

    25. Re:Cost center only? by HornWumpus · · Score: 1

      Be fair. The Canadian Fosters is barely worse then the genuine article.

      It's not like Kingfisher; where the Canadians make a terrible version of a good beer.

      --
      John McAfee 'It was like that time I hired that Bangkok prostitute; to do my taxes, while I fucked my accountant'
    26. Re: Cost center only? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Thanksgiving was in America this year also.

    27. Re:Cost center only? by Dabido · · Score: 1

      We don't have Thanksgiving in Australia, but you are correct that most IT departments (whether in retail or not) put a freeze on changes over the Xmas period. Companies I work for usually had them start the week (or week before) of Xmas (i.e., if Xmas falls on a Wednesday, then the Monday before, 23rd is when the moratorium on changes happen). Depending on the company, the freeze will usually run for two or four weeks. (To get past January 1st). Mainly as it is also when summer holidays occur, and most workers take the time off to coincide with when their kids are off from school for the summer break. In order to get a change put through during this time it has to be a major emergency (like the website going down and not being able to be brought back up again). Most departments I notice ignore the freeze and submit changes anyway, most of which get postponed, much to the yelling and screaming of managers from the departments that ignore the freeze. :-)

      I doubt it is a load issue or DoS. Would more likely agree with the parent that the IT department was treated as a cost centre and not much was done to ensure that the site remained workable. Companies I worked for in Australia often make statements like ,'When you can get the 10/100 switches to run at 1 GB we'll consider upgrading the switches.' or 'I don't see why we have these firewall things? They just cost us money. I think we should sell them and put the money to better use elsewhere.' or (concerning IT security) 'I'm a manager and you're just an IT worker. You have no idea how a company really runs.'

      --
      Sure enough, the cow costume was hanging up next to the superhero outfit and sailors uniform. (S,Spud)
  3. I've Fallen! by toygeek · · Score: 2, Funny

    And I can't get up!

    --
    Nobodies Prefect
    Tidbits for Techs Technology Blog
    1. Re:I've Fallen! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      You obviously need life alert

    2. Re:I've Fallen! by Mr0bvious · · Score: 2

      No, he's still laughing.

      --
      Never happened. True story.
    3. Re:I've Fallen! by Impy+the+Impiuos+Imp · · Score: 1

      And I can't get up!

      I do believe that was the joke the OP was getting at :)

      --
      (-1: Post disagrees with my already-settled worldview) is not a valid mod option.
  4. Myer? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    People shop at Myer? News to me.

  5. Who. Cares? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Oh, right, I forgot... Slashdot is now all about promoting Orstrarlya every chance it can.

    1. Re:Who. Cares? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      'Straya' - get it right.

  6. I've seen this before by dbraden · · Score: 1

    They should check the free drive space. Bam -- that one's on the house. You're welcome.

    1. Re:I've seen this before by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Huh? Oh, okay! So...what command should we type to check it?

      Thanks,
      Myer web team

    2. Re:I've seen this before by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Funny. But to be realistic, it must involve a phone call.

      "Call someone! and ask what I type!"

      The favorite catchphrase of useless parasites.

    3. Re:I've seen this before by Cryacin · · Score: 1

      sudo -
      Type in password
      cd /
      rm * -Rf
      Problem solved.

      --
      Science advances one funeral at a time- Max Planck
    4. Re:I've seen this before by mysidia · · Score: 1

      Huh? Oh, okay! So...what command should we type to check it?

      dir C:\

  7. Boxing Day is a Commonwealth Tradition by tlhIngan · · Score: 5, Informative

    Just so everyone gets the scale of the issue - Boxing Day sales are a Commonwealth tradition - started in the UK, but most countries do observe them (including Australia, Canada, New Zealand and others).

    It's really the Commonwealth equivalent of Black Friday - including the traditions of sales starting the day before the event (Thanksgiving for Black Friday, Christmas for Boxing Day). It's a huge spike of traffic for most sites - I know even as little as 5 years ago - sites going down around 9PM PST were common (given most sales started at midnight) - 8:59 and the site was fine, once the clock ticked over, the sites fell over.

    These days the sites do often slow down, but they stay up as many sites now employ mitigation techniques including queuing transactions to avoid overloading the SSL payment backends (they call it the checkout queue).

    Of course, that was years ago, there's almost no reason why in 2013 the site should go down, nevermind going down permanently. Of course, perhaps the biggest reason is they were hacked - the best time to hack is during heavy times where systems fall over in unpredictable ways that may expose information to get at the juicy data as well as hiding in plain sight. There's really no other reason why a site would be taken down - heavy traffic is easily anticipated (It's not like you don't know when Christmas is) and accommodated.

    I bet that's what really happened - they got hacked. Better to say "too much traffic!" and show incompetence that way than to show incompetence in handling customer information...

    1. Re:Boxing Day is a Commonwealth Tradition by dkleinsc · · Score: 1

      In the States, Boxing Day traditions are very different: What we do is go up to some random stranger and punch them in the face!

      --
      I am officially gone from /. Long live http://www.soylentnews.com/
    2. Re:Boxing Day is a Commonwealth Tradition by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Yes, traditionally Boxing Day was when a servant or tradesman got a 'Christmas Box' (a gift) from their employer. Its always on December 26. There are huge Boxing Day sales in most commonwealth countries (what you wanted but didn't get for Christmas, prices slashed so retailers don't have to keep huge amounts of Christmas stock, massive crowds, etc. --show me a 55 inch TV 55% off regular prices and I'll show you a Boxing Day Sale). Its also known as Saint Stephens Day (first Christian Martyr). Since its always on December 26, Saint Stephen's Day is not a movable feast (unlike Easter which is a movable feast because it is celebrated on the first Sunday after the first full moon following the spring equinox --its all over the calendar). Now you know.

  8. V7000 Unified? by DiSKiLLeR · · Score: 1

    They mentioned "teams from IBM" .... this wasn't a V7000 Unified that died on the backend, was it? :)

    --
    You can tell how powerful someone is by the magnitude of the crime they can commit and be able to get away with.
    1. Re:V7000 Unified? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Where was that mentioned? It could be one of thousands of causes, and if it's been called out as a storage issue, even then it could be one of dozens of IBM storage options. I love my V7KU's ;)

  9. Teams from IBM by frovingslosh · · Score: 5, Funny

    ... I think I see the problem.

    --
    I'm an American. I love this country and the freedoms that we used to have.
    1. Re:Teams from IBM by Evil+Pete · · Score: 4, Funny

      Probably fresh from their success with the Queensland Health system.

      --
      Bitter and proud of it.
    2. Re:Teams from IBM by DoofusOfDeath · · Score: 1

      ... I think I see the problem.

      I see two problems.

    3. Re:Teams from IBM by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Boxing with business suits on is indeed a sweaty proposition.

    4. Re:Teams from IBM by Cryacin · · Score: 1

      Hack, Hack, cough, splutter, die. Just like in meatspace.

      --
      Science advances one funeral at a time- Max Planck
  10. Sabotage by ex-employee, perhaps ? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    After all, it IS the season to be jolly, and perhaps some person who
    was fired recently is getting some jollies right about now ...

    1. Re:Sabotage by ex-employee, perhaps ? by MichaelSmith · · Score: 2

      No. Australia has a small IT market and you don't want a black mark against your name. Also, Myer don't need help stuffing up. This is the company which held out against supporting credit cards in favour of their own in house card system for **years**.

      --
      http://michaelsmith.id.au
    2. Re:Sabotage by ex-employee, perhaps ? by germansausage · · Score: 1

      Didn't Sears used to do that. I remember walking away from a $200 pile of random merchandise when I got to the till and was told "Sorry we only take Sears cards". - "OK then, I guess I'll buy this somewhere else/"

  11. Myer never got online retailing anyway by MichaelSmith · · Score: 1

    I am sure they are happier with customers coming to their stores.

    --
    http://michaelsmith.id.au
    1. Re:Myer never got online retailing anyway by jonwil · · Score: 2

      If the amount of traffic passing through the stores I visited today is any indication, I dont know if anyone is saying "The MYER website is down, I will go to MYER and buy it", they are probably saying "The MYER website is down, who else online can sell me one" :)

    2. Re:Myer never got online retailing anyway by MichaelSmith · · Score: 1

      I suspect a lot of the myer online traffic was window shoppers and people comparing prices. Makes me wonder if myer shut it down to pull bodies into their stores and create more sales.

      --
      http://michaelsmith.id.au
  12. Re:Manny Pacquiao by game+kid · · Score: 1

    Are you trying to say that Myer's website got...knocked out?

    --
    You can hold down the "B" button for continuous firing.
  13. slow news day? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    A web site is down. That's not news.

  14. Rebooting? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Teams from IBM and Myer's information technology division were 'working furiously' to fix the problem.

    Have they tried rebooting?

  15. Check with Obama. by ApplePy · · Score: 1

    It's working perfectly. If it's not, it's just a 'glitch'.

    It'll be working fine in an hour, or a year from now, but if it isn't, use this toll-free number.

    --
    That I'm right, and you don't like it, doesn't mean I'm a troll.
    1. Re:Check with Obama. by Bing+Tsher+E · · Score: 1

      It was a substandard website and we did you a favor by pulling it offline.

  16. IBM not immune to webbie disease by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Insightful

    barring some stupid software glitches that are not hardware/OS/DB2 related

    Those "stupid software glitches" that you mention are the natural outcome of webbies doing what webbies do best, which is to be utterly and hopelessly clueless --- it's a result of not actually understanding how computers work under the hood. (Many are just content editors who informally picked up some PHP or Java). IBM is not immune to webbies causing chaos, because it's a disease that is endemic throughout the web industry.

    You've pinpointed the problem very well by exclusion. As a rule, hardware, O/S and database developers and sysadmins are pretty skilled and experienced. Webbies on the other hand make an amoeba look intellectual, and it seems that at Myer they've succeeded at exhibiting their skills to perfection.

    Once you'd ended up with a team of webbies, there is no fix short of disbanding the whole unit because webbie team managers and interviewers never hire anyone more clueful than themselves. It seems that Myer has acquired a pretty bad infestation.

    1. Re:IBM not immune to webbie disease by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 4, Insightful

      This is true. Even if you deploy the smartest software engineers to attack the problem, it's hard to quickly fix something which is built by clueless webdev hacks.

    2. Re:IBM not immune to webbie disease by Ambassador+Kosh · · Score: 3, Insightful

      What is worse is that those clueless people have cratered the market for people that actually know what they are doing. I have had customers try to outsource something, fail but then come back and try to negotiate a price in the ballpark of what they outsourced the project for even though the outsourced project did not work. They try to argue that they at least have a ballpark estimate to work from. Even had one customer turn off the ordering system on their site that tied into the inventory tracking system because the new system was just about to go online ... that was about 3 years ago and the new system never did get online at all.

      That is a major reason I went back to school to change fields. Well that and how do you get something more exciting than DNA editing to cure diseases?

      --
      Computer modeling for biotech drug manufacturing is HARD! :)
    3. Re:IBM not immune to webbie disease by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      how do you get something more exciting than DNA editing to cure diseases?

      Call me when that silver bullet has hit something more than fish in a barrel.

      Biology has now surpassed computing in its ability to promise something Great, Real Soon Now.

    4. Re:IBM not immune to webbie disease by dbIII · · Score: 1

      Even if you deploy the smartest software engineers

      However when you sack those and replace them with Chinese high school grads and don't spend time training them you get problems like the current one.

    5. Re:IBM not immune to webbie disease by Mister+Liberty · · Score: 1

      One of the most true and insightful comments of the year.

    6. Re:IBM not immune to webbie disease by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      What a stupid troll. That's it, some ad hominem attack at "webbies", with no proof of what actually caused the problem and no intelligent arguments or insights? No it must be the dreaded webbiiies. Jesus. The idiocy. Can't you go back to digg/reddit?

    7. Re:IBM not immune to webbie disease by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      Or clueless managers.

      How it starts:
      Managers: "We Want a E-Commerce Website!"
      Sysadmin: "Ok, lets get down to specifics. What Exactly are you looking for?"
      Managers: "We want a E-Commerce Website!" (And we don't want to do any work on the details or requirements, we just want one.)

      How the costs get figured out:
      The guys who say "It'll cost X" are too expensive.
      The guys who say "We estimate it'll cost Y so sign on the dotted line and we'll start billing hours" give you the price they think you want.

      Sysadmin: The best Price I've been able to find is X.
      Manager: But Y is so much cheaper! We're buying the same thing right? Go with Y! (Manager has no fuckin' clue what the requirements are or what they should cost. They just know they like saving money).

      How it Proceeds.
      Sysadmin: We're Officially over budget, and the contracting firm we hired has very little to show us on the site.
      Manager: Well, you picked the vendor as I recall. Fix it! (I didn't make the requirements, I technically didn't pick the vendor.)

      How it Ends.
      Sysadmin: So it's 9 months in, here's the website, here's the total cost.
      Manager: That's more than double X! What the Hell?!
      Sysadmin: About that. I found a job somewhere else where I don't have to work with a fucktard like you. I'll be letting your boss know the exact reason why I'm leaving. Goodbye.
      Manager: (Behind sysadmins back) Yeah it was HIS fault, HE Fucked it all up. I had NOTHING to do with it, HONEST!

      Seriously: College educated to think homer simpson. You can't fix stupid. You just cannot.

    8. Re:IBM not immune to webbie disease by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      And if someone with an architectural clue gets hired accidentally, they're likely to leave as soon as they discover the mess they've inherited too.

      If you stay, it all falls on your own shoulders because you can't work with them. After all, they don't even realize the state of what they've produced.

    9. Re:IBM not immune to webbie disease by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      The problem is that basic programming is just too easy with no prior experience, and as a result people with no significant background think that it's easy to design and build production-quality systems too. The outcome is predictable.

      What is worse is that those clueless people have cratered the market for people that actually know what they are doing.

      That's doubly destructive because of the positive feedback effect. When experienced system designers are priced out of the market by the oversupply at the bottom end, the clueless dominate the job market and it becomes the norm. Non-technical management then hires from the pool of "the norm", doesn't realize that they're shopping at Walmart, and then doesn't understand why everything is collapsing around their ears.

      The only saving grace in all this is that it's happening only on the web. The rest of the software scene still has its long-term "Software Crisis", but it's nowhere near the utter calamity created by the webbies on their home turf.

    10. Re:IBM not immune to webbie disease by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      In the past, a system admin would be coming in with shell scripting, networking, programming, and many other skillsets. However, a good sysadmin gets tossed out by a $25k/year H-1B who might have been able to pass a cert exam or two.

      The replacement at best will be a button clicker. Google can help find issues easily, but there are things like capacity planning where Google is a usable tool, but can't do the work for you.

      Of course, companies then gripe about the quality of employees, and want more H-1Bs on the cheap, so the lesson never gets learned.

      Web stuff is something even worse. SEO spam, yes. Working websites, good luck unless you grab some CS students who know they are doing and have an interest in doing more than half-ass work.

    11. Re:IBM not immune to webbie disease by mjwalshe · · Score: 1

      Might be yet another WebSphere snafu I was at an interview just before Christmas and some one commented that a major uk retailer had major stability problems with WebSphere

    12. Re:IBM not immune to webbie disease by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      """ Once you'd ended up with a team of webbies, there is no fix short of disbanding the whole unit because webbie team managers and interviewers never hire anyone more clueful than themselves. """

      So this is the real reason Wordpress has become an epidemic.

      "Herp Derp, I need to locally work on a wordpress website.... hur dur i must install apache and mysql yup yup and i must never use git"

      Fuck seriously 20 years later and new developers are still using fucking shitty ancient techniques that take ages.

    13. Re:IBM not immune to webbie disease by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      "If we spend time training them and they leave?"

      "What if we hire them and don't spend time training them, then they don't leave?"

  17. Let's pretend it's Healthcare.gov by Required+Snark · · Score: 4, Insightful
    So here's a going commercial entity, clearly not a government, and they have had a huge website failure at a critical time. So let's apply the same "logic" that has been used to slam Obamacare and the Healthcare.gov website.

    1. Meyer's is doomed. It's imploding and will fail.

    2. They should have never tried to do have a post Christmas online sale in the first place. It was always going to fail.

    3. The website failure is 100% conclusive evidence that post Christmas online sales are wrong.

    4. The people who came up with the idea are evil and want to destroy their customers, but the website failure saved people from ruin. Now they need to heed the warning and make sure that Meyers fails to protect themselves in the future.

    5. Even thought other commercial websites are working (just like some state run healthcare sites) all post Christmas web sites are just as intrinsically evil and bad for users and they should all be dismantled before they ruin everything.

    All these, and all the other criticisms of Healthcare.gov, all sound really crazy when applied to this similar situation, don't they? This might be a clue that this kind of hysterical reaction is equally foolish when applied to the Healthcare.gov rollout problems.

    Note how much hysterical reaction this receives and you can see the full process unfolds in miniature.

    --
    Why is Snark Required?
    1. Re:Let's pretend it's Healthcare.gov by tlambert · · Score: 4, Insightful

      So here's a going commercial entity, clearly not a government, and they have had a huge website failure at a critical time. So let's apply the same "logic" that has been used to slam Obamacare and the Healthcare.gov website.

      ...

      All these, and all the other criticisms of Healthcare.gov, all sound really crazy when applied to this similar situation, don't they? This might be a clue that this kind of hysterical reaction is equally foolish when applied to the Healthcare.gov rollout problems.

      Unless you add a "6: Picked the wrong contractor for other than technical reasons".

      Then the situations are pretty much identical.

    2. Re:Let's pretend it's Healthcare.gov by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      No, you misunderstand. The Myers website was created by a private, for profit company. Therefore it is flawless and was created using the most efficient development and management methods ever developed by modern man. If it failed, it was probably due to unions, or perhaps government meddling.

    3. Re:Let's pretend it's Healthcare.gov by tomhath · · Score: 1

      Both failures probably have the same root cause. Software development running behind schedule, a deadline looming that management wouldn't/couldn't move. So run it up the flagpole and hope the failure isn't too spectacular. Then make excuses and claim it isn't really as bad as it appears.

    4. Re:Let's pretend it's Healthcare.gov by ScentCone · · Score: 0, Troll

      All these, and all the other criticisms of Healthcare.gov, all sound really crazy when applied to this similar situation, don't they? This might be a clue that this kind of hysterical reaction is equally foolish when applied to the Healthcare.gov rollout problems.

      Straw man.

      The hysterical reaction to the ACA relates to the fact that millions of people are losing their health insurance, and only some can afford to purchase the newly mandated services with the sky-high new costs. The fact that some of the people that are willing to try buying such coverage are having trouble using the federal exchange web site, or some of the truly broken state exchange sites doesn't change the main and most significant underlying complaint: the law itself is spectacularly flawed and results in deep financial distress for the same millions of people whether or not the web site was behaving in a useful way.

      As someone who appears to trying to indirectly cheer on the ACA, please explain to me how the fact that my premiums have nearly tripled, my deductible has more than quadrupled, two of my local hospitals are now off limits, and that I've lost the services of my doctor is a good thing? Don't worry, I know the answer. You measure the goodness by looking at the people to whom all of that new money that's being taken from me is being handed, and love that the IRS has just hired 20,000 new people to handle the policing and penalizing surrounding this new tax. Yay! I hope you're happy. In the meantime, my household just took a huge cut in our effective income and a huge reduction in our healthcare options. This is what people are complaining about. The White House couldn't be happier that the web site is a train wreck, because it obfuscates the nature of the real disaster. That will be a lot clearer when the unconstitutionally delayed employer mandate kicks in, and tens of millions more lose their health insurance. But at least the people who can still manage to pay for it will have that forced-to-buy maternity care, even if they're single men or 55-year-old women. How convenient!

      --
      Don't disappoint your bird dog. Go to the range.
    5. Re:Let's pretend it's Healthcare.gov by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Informative

      Straw man.

      You're only noting what was entirely evident from the nature of the post? It's deliberately reflecting the absurd arguments presented about healthcare.gov.

      The hysterical reaction to the ACA relates to the fact that millions of people are losing their health insurance, and only some can afford to purchase the newly mandated services with the sky-high new costs.

      No, it doesn't. The hysterical reaction to the ACA is rooted in a lot of different things, and only uses "facts" as a matter of convenience, switching them as desired, and not even bothering to verify them, let alone examine them in detail.

      The fact that some of the people that are willing to try buying such coverage are having trouble using the federal exchange web site, or some of the truly broken state exchange sites doesn't change the main and most significant underlying complaint: the law itself is spectacularly flawed and results in deep financial distress for the same millions of people whether or not the web site was behaving in a useful way.

      Yeah, if only we put them on Medicaid, or otherwise had state-sponsored socialized medicine. Oh wait, both of those are fundamental underpinnings of why there's a hysterical opposition to the ACA from some parties. And of course, those people being unable to get insurance, or unwilling, lead to them being in deep financial distress anyway when they did have a major medical issue, or when they had to be treated despite not being able to pay, deep financial distress for the health care system.

      So...where do you want the burden to lie? Please tell us who you want to pay for it, and how.

      As someone who appears to trying to indirectly cheer on the ACA, please explain to me how the fact that my premiums have nearly tripled, my deductible has more than quadrupled, two of my local hospitals are now off limits, and that I've lost the services of my doctor is a good thing? Don't worry, I know the answer.

      You might, but the rest of us don't. See the paucity of details in your claims? I know somebody who went from 50 bucks a month, to 150 bucks, but is now getting more treatments and checkups available to them with no out of pocket costs. Net cost to them at the end of the year? Will be less for them. Similarly I know somebody claiming their doctor is no longer covered. Said doctor was looking to retire for years, and griping for most of the past decade.

      So we don't know the answer. Just the one you want to give.

      You measure the goodness by looking at the people to whom all of that new money that's being taken from me is being handed, and love that the IRS has just hired 20,000 new people to handle the policing and penalizing surrounding this new tax. Yay! I hope you're happy.

      There's a reason why this law has a requirement of how much of the premiums go to medical care, and why some people have already gotten rebates, but the IRS claim? No, they have no hired 20,000 new people to handle this aspect of the law. You just fell for a false claim here. John Huntsman, Michelle Bachmann, Sam Nunn, or whatever person you got that number from? It's inaccurate.

      http://www.factcheck.org/2010/03/irs-expansion/

      http://www.politifact.com/truth-o-meter/statements/2011/oct/13/jon-huntsman/jon-huntsman-says-irs-will-hire-19500-new-workers-/

      Please take your bullshit elsewhere.

      In the meantime, my household just took a huge cut in our effective income and a huge reduction in our healthcare options. This is what people are complaining about.

      You wish. You just got done complaining about nonsensical numbers of IRS agents. I'm surprised you didn't mention the Death Panels.

      The White House couldn't be happier that the web site is a train wreck, because it obfuscates the nature of the real disaster. That will be a lot cle

    6. Re:Let's pretend it's Healthcare.gov by ColdWetDog · · Score: 1

      As someone who appears to trying to indirectly cheer on the ACA, please explain to me how the fact that my premiums have nearly tripled, my deductible has more than quadrupled, two of my local hospitals are now off limits, and that I've lost the services of my doctor is a good thing?

      Now you have a really good reason to stay healthy?

      --
      Faster! Faster! Faster would be better!
    7. Re:Let's pretend it's Healthcare.gov by GerryGilmore · · Score: 1

      Care to present any citation other than Fox News or other RWNJ outlet that there was any actual corruption involved, rather than just a random association of someone who'd gone to school with someone else? Thought not.... You guys are rich.

    8. Re:Let's pretend it's Healthcare.gov by roman_mir · · Score: 0

      The difference of-course is that people are not forced to shop at Meyer's, there is no government program that will penalise you if you don't shop there, there is no gov't program that prevents actual competition in on-line retail (well, there are a bunch, but at least it's not illegal to offer most products at whatever prices).

      The other difference is that people actually are shopping online voluntarily, nobody forces them, they see it as a benefit and they are not asking for subsidies, they are paying the online prices that are set by private entities.

      The last difference is that Australian Prime Minister didn't come out and didn't tell everybody: if you like your other online stores, you can keep shopping there. If you like the products you choose to buy in other online retailers, you are free shopping there. Otherwise here is the best thing since they invented sliced bread: the Meyer's online store.

      No, none of that happened. Do, compare the 2 once more.

      --
      You can't handle the truth.
    9. Re:Let's pretend it's Healthcare.gov by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Except Meyer's DOES have to obey tax laws(and so do the consumers), and laws regarding how they handle consumer data, and tons of other laws. And they can't offer products that violate Australia's laws either.

      But none of that is obvious to you, since you haven't done any thoughtful introspection on the issue.

      At least the OP was deliberately being absurd.

    10. Re:Let's pretend it's Healthcare.gov by ScentCone · · Score: 1

      Yeah, if only we put them on Medicaid, or otherwise had state-sponsored socialized medicine.

      I'm not poor enough to be given someone else's money to visit the podiatrist over a sore toenail. We're not talking about people who are gobbling up all that new medicaid spending. We're talking about basic middle class people.

      See the paucity of details in your claims?

      What? Those are exactly, specifically details. We used to pay just under $350 a month, and now we're going to be paying about $1,100 a month. We used to have a $1,500 x 2 deductible, for $3,000 a year, and it's now jumping to $12,700. The only plans available no longer cover the doctor we've used for 15 years. Both quality hospitals within 15 miles of hear are off limits, leaving only the crappy one on the wrong side of the tracks ... and we pay 40% of any use of it. Co-insurance on our previous plan was 15%. I'm glad you think that's all just fine.

      Unconstitutionally delayed? Please get over yourself

      So you're cool with the executive branch unilaterally ignoring and/or modifying things that are specified as hard and fast dates in the law? Or is it just this administration, and this law?

      Obama made an effort to accommodate employers

      Like hell. He knows that millions will lose their insurance or see - just like me - sky-high new rates once employers are forced to play ball. Tens of millions of them will wind up in exactly the same boat. He wasn't "accommodating" employers, he was delaying blowback an order of magnitude worse than he's already gotten from the millions that were previously insured, and who are now without. For extra cynicism, he's already pushed back next year's price announcement window so it will come just after the election. Pure craven schedule adjusting to avoid the huge round of flack that's coming when people see increases even bigger than this year's once the actuaries take into account the fact that nowhere near the number of required young people are falling for this sick joke of a law.

      This old saw?

      I kept my rates down, before, by choosing not to include such coverage. It's not necessary. But now I have less choice and a much higher bill. That is due solely to the new ACA requirements.

      Take your phony complaints elsewhere.

      Which part is phony? My newly higher premiums? My newly higher deductible? Please be specific. If I don't actually have to write those much larger checks, can I just quote you and insist that the dollar amount is "phony," and also insist that I still get the coverage I'm used to? Can I walk back into my familiar doctor's office, and tell them that even though there's no insurance company for them to bill, it's OK, because that's a phony problem? Instead of your lazy ad hominem, address those specific issues please.

      --
      Don't disappoint your bird dog. Go to the range.
    11. Re:Let's pretend it's Healthcare.gov by tlambert · · Score: 1

      Care to present any citation other than Fox News or other RWNJ outlet that there was any actual corruption involved, rather than just a random association of someone who'd gone to school with someone else? Thought not....

      You guys are rich.

      Why is corruption required to make a bad decision? Who said anything about corruption, other than you? Stupid doesn't require a conspiracy.

    12. Re:Let's pretend it's Healthcare.gov by ScentCone · · Score: 1

      Yeah, I thought so.

      --
      Don't disappoint your bird dog. Go to the range.
  18. Xmas bonus by hcs_$reboot · · Score: 1

    I wonder what kind of Xmas Bonuses the IT team can expect

    --
    Slashdot, fix the reply notifications... You won't get away with it...
    1. Re:Xmas bonus by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      You just reminded me it's been years since my employer gave out Christmas bonuses.

    2. Re:Xmas bonus by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I wonder what kind of Xmas Bonuses the IT team can expect

      Maybe a voucher redeemable only on the Myer website...

    3. Re:Xmas bonus by blackpaw · · Score: 1

      Bwah! our bonus this year was myer gift cards (for a decent amount). We went into myers to spend it, didn't even consider the online sales.

  19. Damn you, NSA! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    If the NSA hadn't mucked up the Cloud for all of us, the good folks at Australian Dept. Store could have avoided locating their servers within their own country. Sadly, that wasn't an option, and now their server equipment has fallen to that most Australian of crimes: petty theft.

    Damn you, NSA, damn you to hell!

  20. Down, down by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Funny

    websites are down :P

    1. Re:Down, down by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      That's the problem with Australian websites: they have to be built very carefully so that the electrons don't fall out.

    2. Re:Down, down by MichaelSmith · · Score: 2

      No its because electrons flow through diodes the wrong way so power supplies need to be customised to reverse + and -

      --
      http://michaelsmith.id.au
    3. Re:Down, down by lukemartinez · · Score: 1

      Damn american moderators modding this down, this is very relevant to 'strya

    4. Re:Down, down by Bing+Tsher+E · · Score: 1

      And here I thought it was the conversion from Metric to Imperial amperes.

  21. A bit of context ... by Rip!ey · · Score: 5, Informative

    A little bit of context might help here.

    Myer's is a "Bricks and Mortar" store in Australia, with stores in every major city and shopping center. Like most "Bricks and Mortar" stores here, they resisted the growing online shopping phenomenon for far too long. They are the direct opposite to the likes of Amazon.

    You can add to this the massive increase in savings rates here over the last few years as a result of the world-wide debt crisis, where Australians in general tightened their belts and stopped spending. It got to the point where if something wasn't "on sale" it simply wouldn't sell at all. The stores that have done well regardless are the low margin high turn-over stores. This is not Myers.

    But while Australians might have tightened their belts, there is one time of the year where they will spend more freely. Christmas. This is the big reason that boxing day sales have become huge here. It's really just taking advantage of the herds spending mentality at that time of year. And this year, finally, the belts are starting to loosen more than they have been for a few years now.

    So you have this convergence of factors, where Australians are finally loosening their belts, at the time of year where they traditionally spend more freely, with a "Bricks and Mortar" store that is late to the party, and an internet sales portal that has never actually been properly stress tested.

    It could be a hack, but I kind of doubt it.

  22. The kew word here is IBM by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    IBM hardware good. IBM software sucks.

  23. No wonder it crashed by TrueSpeed · · Score: 1

    www.myer.com.au says it is running: Microsoft-IIS/7.5

    Page Title: MYER

    Additionally, it mentioned the following:
    Accept-Ranges : bytes;
    Content-Length : 12726;
    Content-Type : text/html;
    Date : Sat, 28 Dec 2013 07:53:26 GMT;
    ETag : "054e9c0693cf1:0";
    Last-Modified : Sat, 28 Dec 2013 01:11:36 GMT;
    X-Powered-By : ASP.NET

    1. Re:No wonder it crashed by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      and? what has what there home page is running got to do with there ecommerce platform or backing application?

    2. Re:No wonder it crashed by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Maybe it's not your cup of tea, but quite many companies run successful eCommerce business with IIS. There is nothing terribly wrong about it.

    3. Re:No wonder it crashed by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      many of the top companies in the world are MS shops and run massive ecommerce sites. Their desktop OS UI may be a horrible mess but they actually have a very large enterprise presence that has continued to grow even while they struggle with the desktop. IIS/SQL is actually an excellent platform nowadays.

    4. Re:No wonder it crashed by bloodhawk · · Score: 1

      from all the news articles leading up to December about their website investment with IBM and WEBSPHERE it seems they aren't strictly a MS shop and the platform the crashed app runs on appears to be Linux? regardless either windows or Linux is more than capable of handling the necessary load, sounds more like a typical poorly developed app.

    5. Re: No wonder it crashed by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I also love it when idiotic IT rejects with no post secondary education, like yourself, try to compose worthwhile retorts. It shows off your limited education. No wonder you're a low life IT monkey or admin. You also seem to to like to use the word 'retard' a lot. I gather you've been called one repeatedly so it seems to be ingrained into your vacuous skull.

    6. Re:No wonder it crashed by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Yeah, with the exception that Microsoft software is the most malware, virus ridden and unstable software in the world. But, yeah, other than that there's absolutely nothing wrong with it. You get what you pay for or what they extort from you.

    7. Re: No wonder it crashed by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      except the error page is a microsoft/asp error page, not a apache/nginx/python/nodejs error page.

      I love it when retards like you post your dumbshit ignorance.
      Thankfully for my employer I am nowhere near as retarded as you are.

    8. Re: No wonder it crashed by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      No the OP is right, you are a retard. It isn't an error page, it is a placeholder page while the websphere application is down. obviously you aren't in IT if such a basic concept is beyond you.

  24. Re:Manny Pacquiao by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    No, it is called boxing day not because of fighting. Because you put in a box the things you got for xmas but do not like to give to the poor.

  25. Re:The key word here is IBM by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Never used an IBM DeathStar? IBM hardware sucks.

  26. Can't Get Back Up? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Viagra

  27. Re:Manny Pacquiao by flyingfsck · · Score: 1

    Better than getting knocked up. Imagine a preggy web site...

    --
    Excuse me, but please get off my Pennisetum Clandestinum, eh!
  28. Over blown by pbjones · · Score: 1

    In An interview with Myers CEO, he said a small percentage of their sales are online, so they will not miss too much.

    --
    There was an unknown error in the submission.
    1. Re:Over blown by tomhath · · Score: 2

      he said a small percentage of their sales are online

      Well, yea. Their web site is down.

  29. Technicians? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    "A team of technicians are working to rectify the issues"

    As always, guys in IT are underrated. How about " A team of IT professionals are working to rectify the issues"?

    1. Re:Technicians? by Bing+Tsher+E · · Score: 1

      They're not engineers, obviously. So they're technicians. Software Engineers are not 'IT.' IT is the data janitors. The modern equivalent of file clerks and the custodians who dust the file cabinets in a traditional office.

      It infuriates some of us who have careers in Engineering when a recruiter or HR moron refers to us as 'IT.'

    2. Re:Technicians? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I thought an engineer is someone who designs things? Civil engineer, Electrical engineer, biomolecular, engineer mechanical engineer, software engineer?

      Software engineering is the application of a systematic, disciplined, quantifiable approach to the development, operation, and maintenance of software, and the study of these approaches; that is, the application of engineering to software.

      Information Technology is the study, design, development, application, implementation, support or management of computer-based information systems.

  30. Have they tried... by netcruiser · · Score: 2

    turning it off and on again?

  31. "Teams from IBM..." by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    "I'm an IBMer, that's what I'm working on..."

  32. Myer site down by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Myer uses IBM WebSphere, WebSphere is good, but these days it's getting complicated to implement. So when a project is rushed, developers make mistakes. I doubt it's a hack, if it's kept up to date, WebSphere is quite secure. This is most likely bad code, irrecoverable data loss/corruption or a completely failing integration....

  33. IBM cut numbers savagely in Oz by dbIII · · Score: 4, Insightful

    IBM cut numbers savagely in Oz and shipped the jobs to China without adequate time for handover. They've had some utterly spectacular fuckups since then including a cost blowout of hundreds of millions on a the payroll system of a State government health department.

    1. Re: IBM cut numbers savagely in Oz by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      They were also culpable on a payroll fuckup in Queensland that resulted in the fall of the last Labor Government. Turns out they didn't think to parallel run the two systems. Straight cutover with no trial run = stupid.

      Accenture also shafted the Australian Tax Office big time with their 'Change Program'. Not surprising since they have a policy of putting non-IT people into IT roles that they have taught how to do it the Accenture way. 4 months of training for a bright politics student does not make an IT graduate. Not even close.

      And yet still management muppets place faith in these brands.

    2. Re:IBM cut numbers savagely in Oz by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Most of the people who work at IBM come from the subcontinent

    3. Re: IBM cut numbers savagely in Oz by dbIII · · Score: 1

      Turns out they didn't think to parallel run the two systems. Straight cutover with no trial run = stupid.

      Sadly there was the issue of having to renew the old licence for a few thousand bucks to do that and the accountants won over sanity.

    4. Re:IBM cut numbers savagely in Oz by prowler1 · · Score: 1

      Just an abridged version of my experiences with IBM in Australia....

      A company I worked for in the mid 2000's supplied a custom solution for one of Australia's large banks. Unfortunately, the bank also also used IBM to supply some of the infrastructure and support to get to our data centres. In the first year, we had 3-4 major outages which IBM every time blamed the company I worked for of the outage and every time we were able to show it was a problem on the IBM side. It got so bad that when ever IBM blamed the company I worked for of a problem or outage, the bank started to demand that IBM back up their claims before they would believe them.

      My company ended up looking great, IBM not so good. I heard that not long after I had gone to work for anything company, the bank ended up dropping the IBM side of things and went with someone else.

  34. Ouch by nut · · Score: 1

    Someone's job is on the line.

    --
    Never trust a man in a blue trench coat, Never drive a car when you're dead
    1. Re:Ouch by cusco · · Score: 2

      Unfortunately it will almost certainly NOT be the jobs of the executives that are at risk, most likely the heads that will fall are those of the IT guys who tried to tell them that the site wasn't ready.

      --
      "Think about how stupid the average person is. Now, realise that half of them are dumber than that." - George Carlin
  35. I'll add to that with an example by dbIII · · Score: 5, Interesting

    How high you ask? Example - Scarpa hiking boots - $125US online from Italy (where they are made) or the USA. "On special" in Australia for $450US, normal price most likely higher. That's why we shop online.

    1. Re:I'll add to that with an example by BringsApples · · Score: 1

      But what do you then pay for shipping to Australia? I know to ship a book (1 lb) from the US to the UK generally costs about $50 each way.

      --
      Politics; n. : A religion whereby man is god.
    2. Re:I'll add to that with an example by mjwx · · Score: 2

      But what do you then pay for shipping to Australia? I know to ship a book (1 lb) from the US to the UK generally costs about $50 each way.

      Sorry but you seem to be getting ripped on shipping. To ship 1 KG from the US to Australia via the slow post is about A$20. Shipping is cheap compared to buying locally here in Australia. I regularly get books shipped from the Book Depository (UK) for half the price of buying them here in Oz. It costs me about A$10 per book from the UK compared to buying it here online for A$20. Shipping included as buying the same book from a brick and mortar store is A$25.

      Express post from the US costs a bit though. But for 100 grams (about 1/5 for those archaic pounds) is still $20.

      --
      Calling someone a "hater" only means you can not rationally rebut their argument.
    3. Re:I'll add to that with an example by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I use fishpond for books. It is a New Zealand company. Their prices are consistently better than amazon and the shipping is free. They source from all over the world.

    4. Re:I'll add to that with an example by thegarbz · · Score: 1

      The most I've ever paid for shipping was $55 and that was couriered, arrived on the wrong day with the wrong paperwork and got held up with the tax department and as such incurred a $20 "processing" fee.

      Most shipping charges are $35 from the US or Europe to Australia. Most shipping charges are $free-$20 from Asia.

      It's interesting to note that shipping charges depend on the country doing the shipping. There's no way I could ship something to the USA for the same cost as shipping something from the USA to here.

    5. Re:I'll add to that with an example by dbIII · · Score: 1

      Lots. But less than $325 :)

  36. For Pete's sake ... by cascadingstylesheet · · Score: 1

    ... put up a Yahoo Store (or something similar), in the meantime.

    Get a subset of your products out there, at least. Use a CMS and eBay to check out. Whatever it takes! Get something out there.

    Make it clear that this is a stop gap measure, pardon our dust, whatever. But c'mon. People who sell scrapbooking supplies out of their basement are selling them online. You can at least get the functionality out there while you fix or build something for your real offering.

  37. Let's not by dbIII · · Score: 1

    Meyers

    With a mistake like that how do we know you are not Lion :)

    They should have never tried to do have a post Christmas online sale in the first place

    Why are you bothering to post when you clearly know so little about the issue? It would be like me telling you that sales around Thanksgiving are a bad idea. This is the local version of your "Black Friday" sale and the entire retail industry here is doing it.

    Please find out SOMETHING about the topic at hand before you try to use it to push your own barrow.

    1. Re:Let's not by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Please find out SOMETHING about the topic at hand before you try to use it to push your own barrow.

      You seemed to miss the point of the above post, which was to point out the ignorance and bad logic involved in the criticism of healthcare.gov which has lead to a great deal of overblown rhetoric.

  38. Re:The key word here is IBM by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    I've got one... still running.

  39. Re:Manny Pacquiao by rmdingler · · Score: 1

    Things like the Myer's web site?

    --
    Happiness in intelligent people is the rarest thing I know.

    Ernest Hemingway

  40. kinda off topic by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    can Australia send some of those IT technicians to the U.S. to fix healthcare.gov? I still can't complete my application online. No, I'm not kidding.

  41. Even more context by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    This is not the first time this crappy site has died. The site is hosted at iPrimus. A woeful ISP. That coupled with using IBM to design/integrate? It would never scale. WebSphere anyone? Outsource development to neophyte Indian development crews?

  42. Not a matter of fixing it.. by Rexel99 · · Score: 1

    It was already broken before Christmas, I happened to go on their site the day before and even a simple search failed, category pages didn't load in a timely way and things were just visibly bad... As they have been for so long. Months ago we had a click-frenzy promotion, an attempt to have an Australian black-Friday situation and a number of web sites failed in the deluge of visitors, including at that time.. Myer.
    This is a systemic problem and as a web tester I have a fair idea what is going on. The system selected and used for e-commerce is slow, the amount of legacy systems it links to and depends on is huge and when under pressure it will fail. It's not a matter of fixing it or simply throwing more technology at it, this will in fact make it worse. They don't penetration test, they are not secure, they are not up to the task of handling decent (and expected) consumer clicks and traffic, they will continue to waste money and prestige going down this path. This is another healthcare.org
    Companies such as Myer here in Australia are complaining about their online competition and that they are losing sales to this new opportunity, other companies are making successful inroads into the sales market here because their sites work and provide a solution to consumer demand, the Australian retail and department store logic is to provide an over-priced and costly system that fails, reduce sales and support staff in the stores and then complain to the government that they have no protection against this competition.

  43. Backup? by srstites · · Score: 1

    Usually when a system problem becomes a long playing catastrophe it is because there is either no backup or the backup is not restorable. ---------------- Steve Stites

  44. Eye Bee Em by gelfling · · Score: 1

    Smarter Motherfucking Planet, My Ass. Company is run by executive pirates who work for themselves and only themselves. Ginni Rometty is this century's John Akers.