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X.Org Server 1.15 Brings DRI3, Lacks XWayland Support
An anonymous reader writes "A belated holiday gift for Linux users is the X.Org Server 1.15 'Egg Nog' release. X.Org Server 1.15 presents new features including DRI3 — a big update to their rendering model — a rewrite of the GLX windowing system code, support for Mesa Mega Drivers, and many bug fixes plus polishing. The release, though, goes without any mainline support for XWayland to ease the adoption of the Wayland Display Server while maintaining legacy X11 application support."
No. I just like network-transparent applications. It was one of the main draws that I had toward Linux almost 20 years ago, and is why I still use it today.
(My home Linux boxen are all headless, and they can stay that way for all I care. If I want to run something graphical, it's trivial with X.)
(And no: VNC is more of a problem than it is a solution.)
Kid-proof tablet..
If all of the competent people working on Wayland would stop wasting time on it and improve the X server, think how much better it might be.
Wayland lacks absolutely necessary features (true "over the net" and root window access, for example) for a significant number of applications and users. Until it has those, even if only through X emulation, it is simply not ready for use by me, and a lot of people like me.
No, what you are doing is migrating one of Windows primary shortcomings into Linux.
In a country long ago and far away there lived the good King X the eleventh.
He had a lot of ministers, the most important of which had become the minister of Composition. His job was to have peoples houses painted. If you wanted your house painted, you would have to ask the King. Every day the king would spend long hours with the minister of Composition, who would know all the houses in the country, had an exact knowledge of the Royal Paint Budget, and could call in the painters.
Although almost everyone lived in the capital called Localhost the King would sometimes travel around the country and kindly hear peoples paint requests. Every night the King would return to his palace, talk to the minister of Composition, and then decide whether you could have your house painted, and when.
Then on a dark winter's night, a group of grumpy people thought how much more efficient it would be if everyone would talk to the minister of Composition directly. Thus the Wayland Conspiracy was born. The next day, at daybreak, they deposed the good King and made the minister of Composition the head of state: president Compositor. To cater for the few people in remote villages they re-appointed the King as secratary to the president: the Secretary for Remote Villages. He would still travel around the country (albeit in a suit, and without his crown). He would still talk to president Compositor every night, like in the old days.
The press in other counties, like Windonia and Applestan, were very positive: finally this backward country had a modern government. Now its poor inhabitants could have the same beautiful colored houses they had. Welcome to the modern world!
The people in the country itself didn't notice a lot of difference, however. In the old days things took a little longer, but not everyone needs his house painted every day. Many still called the Secretary for Remote Villages "King", especially in the countryside.
But the people in Windonia and Applestan were very satisfied: they always had felt that their geovernment was superior, and the Wayland revolution had proved their point.
The King just smiled.
When something running under Wine runs faster with that translation than it does under windows, you cannot claim that the windowing system in X is slower and degrading performance of Linux compared to Windows.
It's taken as a matter of faith that this network transparency MUST be making it slow.
Merely because it is "obvious" that if something is flexible, it MUST be slower!
I really don't understand the reason for pulseaudio in the first place, I heard that when wanting to change and modify their sound system in (was it?) freebsd? they just updated the audio driver, they didnt include some ridiculously slow, horrible to setup daemon to do it
There's a lot of history involved. OSS was originally contributed to Linux under the GPL, then to *BSD under the BSDL. It was maintained in both, but then the original author took it commercial. FreeBSD just forked the last BSDL version and kept maintaining compatibility with new versions. Linux ripped it out and replaced it with the Advanced Linux Sound Architecture (ALSA).
One of the drawbacks with early OSS was that you had a single /dev/dsp and so only one application could play sound at once. With ALSA, you still only had one /dev/dsp, but if your card did hardware mixing, and you rewrite your applications to use ALSA, then you could get mixing. Unfortunately, most things weren't rewritten to use ASLA and most cheap cards back then didn't do hardware mixing, so userspace sound daemons started appearing. Unfortunately, GNOME and KDE each had their own (incompatible) ones. Meanwhile, FreeBSD just implemented in-kernel sound mixing.
Over 10 years ago, this was why I switched to FreeBSD. I wanted XMMS to play music and my KDE IM client and GNOME mail client to be able to make notification bings, and maybe have a game in the foreground playing sound. This was trivial with FreeBSD, impossible with Linux. Now, it's possible with Linux, but only by requiring every single audio-playing app (or, at least, library) to be rewritten with the Linux fad-of-the-day API. This underlines the philosophical difference between FreeBSD and Linux, and is why I remain a FreeBSD user.
I am TheRaven on Soylent News
I believe he's still part of X.org anyway, but he's working exclusively on Wayland.
For everyone that disparages Wayland without really understanding anything about Wayland, which seems to be most everyone, I highly recommend listening to this talk by a core X.org developer:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RIctzAQOe44
TL;DR points:
- X11 is no longer "network transparent" and hasn't been so in a long time, due to reliance on DRI, Xrender, Xvideo, etc.
- X11 is already used in a manner that is similar to Wayland but with a very poor inter-process communication layer and synchronization issues, with most of X11's core bypassed (server-side fonts, drawing APIs, etc).
- X11 when used remotely is already like VNC, but very poor at it. Lots of round-trips, etc, all to show bitmaps.
In the end, there are a few things I need from Wayland, and I think they will be there in the end:
- app-based network transparency, not just remote desktop
- middle click paste. Maybe done with a virtual frame buffer and rdp to ship the final rendering across the wire.
- customizable focus policy (focus follows mouse, click to raise)
- user replaceable window/composite managers
I suspect we'll lose a few features that very few people use such as using a remote window manager to manage windows on a local server. For example, running Xming on Windows, and then running metacity or even twm on my remote linux machine. A full remote desktop would probably be the way to go here with wayland. And faster.