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Helicopter Rescue For All Passengers Aboard Antarctic Research Ship
The BBC reports (with video) that all aboard the ice-trapped MV Akademik Shokalskiy have been rescued by helicopter, after more than one icebreaker attempt to reach the vessel directly proved too challenging. Also at the New York Times, which reports "The twin-rotored helicopter, based on a Chinese icebreaker, the Xue Long, or Snow Dragon, flew several sorties across miles of packed ice to pluck scientists, tourists and journalists from a makeshift landing zone next to the marooned MV Akademik Shokalskiy research vessel."
Care to cite this data? The OP is bringing a hell of a lot more evidence to the conversation than you are.
The fact that you think they had any evidence at all is far more a reflection on you than me.
I love good news, it's a shame there is not more of it.
So I was watching this whole thing on the news and they never mentioned once that this expedition was meant to show the melting ice and such in hopes of showing the effects of global warming on the icepack. Now, I do believe Global warming is a thing... and we need to deal with it. But the clear bias by the media outlets isn't doing anyone any favors.
The only reason they went on a ship and not on a helicopter in the first place was because it would have been wastefully expensive to do so.
No currently existing helicopter has the range needed for a mission like that. Their position is not within reach by helicopters stationed on land, the helicopter that rescued them is stationed on an ice breaker.
Finally! A year of moderation! Ready for 2019?
Look at me, I don't understand science, and I call people doing their jobs in dangerous environments a vacation.
From a person who has never seriously done any difficult labor in their life, so much you can smell it.
The sub-tag "who-pays-for-all-that-rescuing?" has me wondering if they boat people are planning to pay with carbon credits. I have to say, though, that all climate science debating aside, it's pretty clever to turn one of the most abundant elements in the galaxy into a currency. It reminds me of a plot point in one of Neal Stephenson's books where a character stockpiles shells to use as currency only to find out that nobody else considers them valuable.
If the ice was covering the globe, you'd have a point. But saying that my basement is cold doesn't prove that my whole house is.
Seeing as how the BBC article clearly mentions that the "Passengers" (aka Researchers) on the ship have been rescued, but that the crew members of the ship are staying on board and could be stuck for several weeks, I hope the attention span of the people keeping an eye on the ship is a bit better than that of the /. editors, who had apparently forgotten that the crew exists before they reached the bottom of the article...
No, actually, it's called climate change, at least originally, because that was a euphemism developed by a conservative think tank to make the results sound more palatable. It's called climate change now, because not all parts of the globe would warm. Unpredictability is just weather being weather, and has very little to do with climate at all.
The ice caps do not expand overnight. How is it an isolated event?
Instead, alarmists use isolated events as evidence for their position, and decry those who want the raw data and point out that the overall trend is a cooling, not warning - which goes against ALL theories (that we are coming out of an ice age, that man is causing global warming, that the sun is getting hotter)
Now, I can't deny the presence of people who went "Katrina was caused by global warming," but their being wrong doesn't excuse you ignoring incredibly reliable data from people who know what they're talking about. No more than idiots blathering about super-volcanoes "being due" excuse people who deny the existence of plate tectonics.
You can always find someone hyperbolic and wrong to disagree with, it doesn't make your position right.
I don't know. When do economic models predict I'll win the lottery?
TFS is, as usual, wrong. The passengers have been rescued, the crew remains aboard and decidedly not safe.
Eternal Father, strong to save,
Whose arm hath bound the restless wave,
Who bidd'st the mighty ocean deep
Its own appointed limits keep;
Oh, hear us when we cry to Thee,
For those in peril on the sea!
Creator, Father, who dost show
Thy splendor in the ice and snow,
Bless those who toil in summer light
And through the cold Antarctic night,
As they thy frozen wonders learn;
Bless those who wait for their return.
Yes, it's the Navy Hymn, but it will have to do. If you've never been to sea, you'll never grok.
...took Xue Long to rescue them.
Also, there's more going on that just CO2 levels and gradual heating. We're cutting down forrests, polluting the air and water with hundreds of thousands of chemicals, killing off life in the largest mass extinction since the dinosaurs died, paving over and building on top of ecosystems with reckless abandon, ad nauseum. In short, we're changing the environment in many ways at once, not just increasing levels of greenhouse gases. Climate Change seems more descriptive to me than Global Warming.
Tic-Tac-Toe, Global Thermonuclear War, and relationships all have the same winning move.
There's about as much research in that ship as in the Japanese "whale research" fleet that for some mysterious reason needs to test and re-test the deliciousness of whale meat every year..
It's a damn 'eco tourist' (i.e. green-washed) cruise. Not to mention the fact that, being a Russian ship, they're probably dumping toilet water and bilge oil directly into the sea..
I bet the taxpayers are happy about their tax dollars going to rescue this group of clowns ;-)
That sure is something actual climate scientists have said, and not some kind of elaborate strawman you set up for yourself to attack.
Yep.
Now, statistically There has been a small increase in drought severity and frequency in the northern hemisphere as some oceanic changes occur, which has some limited, but measurable fallout. But that doesn't mean any given drought is climate change.
Granted there's no model of the earth that includes everything, other than the earth itself. There have been many studies of the effects of deforrestation, pollution, food supply, et al however. And there are more and more interdisciplinary studies using systems theory and complexity theory. Science is itself the study of everything. It's only its practioners who are divided into specialties by their own choice.
Tic-Tac-Toe, Global Thermonuclear War, and relationships all have the same winning move.
If you can't recognize single incident evidence as more than just being a smart ass than you don't understand the idea of evidence. You flap your lips a lot but you never say much. Step up or shut up.
Doubling down. Okay. If bank of America's stock is down today against yesterday, what does that say about where the DJI will be next year?
Congratulations, if you said anything at all, you're an idiot who jumps to conclusions.
Makes me want to break out an emulator and play a few rounds of Choplifter. :-)
"Enjoy what you're doing! If it becomes drudgery, you're doing it wrong!" - Jim Butterfield
I gave my real answer, actually.
It was "I don't know." Which is appropriate because climate data has no relevant to day-to-day weather. And I illustrated that point with a similar question.
Rather than address the main point, you compared me to nazis(not wanting to damage the economic output of the world by excessive emissions is ethically identical to genocide), made up claims I've never made, and made yourself sound like a crazy person.
While the world watches the researchers and tourists being "rescued", these guys stay to save the ship if that is at all possible. These are the guys who are doing all the work and should be getting all of the attention and respect they deserve.
--Coder
Absolutely agreed. You could pretty much replace "helicopter" with "nuclear ice breaker capable of sailing in practically any ice" and there would have been nothing for me to gripe about. Although the existing nuclear ice breakers are all in the Arctic and allegedly cannot cross the tropics under their own steam due to insufficient cooling.
Finally! A year of moderation! Ready for 2019?
As global warming continues schools in Minnesota are preparing to close next week for more record low temperatures
Meanwhile, the British Midlands have barely seen a frost this year. Your anecdote about Minnesota is worth no more than mine about England.
you're being trolled.
Since it has a required predicate, to whit: "According to their models, there would be a sea of water there".
According to their models, there was nothing about an absence of sea ice.
Only the passengers were evacuated. The crew will stay behind and sail it out once free from the ice. They have enough provisions to last months; they didn't have enough provisions for the 52 passengers.
Well, there's spam egg sausage and spam, that's not got much spam in it.
polluting the air and water with hundreds of thousands of chemicals,
Credibility dropped here, as you fell off the deep end; your claims went from "sort of vague" to "downright hysterical". Every time I hear someone use the word "chemicals" in such a fear-mongering way, I wonder whether they are aware that water is a chemical too, or that its the worlds biggest fear-word. Oh no, chemicals, theyre so bad for you -- except for all of the ones necessary to support life.
Which specific extinction are you referring to, by the way? There are a number of species which are being removed from the endangered list as they are making a comeback (eagles for one), so that its pretty hard to swallow claim that we're in the middle of the biggest extinction event in the last epoch, especially given how vague and handwavy your whole post is.
And your credibility dropped to zero by conflating water with pollution. Here's one of the first results when I googled man-made chemicals. I've previously read that there over 100,000 man-made chemicals released into the environment. If you know of a better word than chemical to use, BTW, please let me know. Here's an overview of the current mass extinction event, started about 10,000 years ago when man really started getting down to wiping out animals, burning forrests for agriculture, etc. It's a selective list. Here's a list of man-made extinctions, or at least the documented ones. Googling is hard, but thankfully I was here to do it for you.
Tic-Tac-Toe, Global Thermonuclear War, and relationships all have the same winning move.
from the article:
The 233-foot Russian research ship had been lodged in the ice since Dec. 24, when powerful winds encircled it with pack ice near Cape de la Motte, about 1,700 miles south of Hobart, Tasmania.
Navigating pack ice is like wandering through a labyrinth where the walls periodically move.
The rescuers pay for the cost of the rescues. Rescues at sea are a no-cost agreement under maritime conventions and traditions.
Some US politicians raised questions about this practice after costly rescue operations for Carnival cruise ships last year.
http://www.nydailynews.com/news/national/carnival-u-s-won-reimbursed-triumph-costs-article-1.1315792
It is summer down there now. The ice isn't freezing around the ship. Wind is blowing ice floes into a large pack which has trapped the ship.
Hopefully, as the seasons change, the winds will shift and loosen the ice before winter and an actual freeze.
Have gnu, will travel.
Classification: Russian register KM ice class
Year built: 1984
Accommodation: 50 berths expedition, 30 crew
Shipyard: Finland
Main engines: power 2x1560 bhp (2x 1147 Kw) Register: Russia
Maximum speed: 12 knots (2 engines)
Cruising speed: 10 knots(one engine)
Bunker capacity: 320 tons
That sure is something actual climate scientists have said
Not so fast there. You have to admit that the AGW camp is comprised on many different people. And many of those people are in positions that are influential...media, entertainment, etc. These non-scientists regularly equate weather events with AGW. They do so forcefully and very publicly with widespread exposure. All I've ever heard from the scientists are tepid and hard to find statements that, "no, you really can't say that".
Highly prominent scientists in AGW research have moved from science into advocacy of specific public policy. In doing that they have taken the debate out of the scientific realm and placed it into the public realm, where everyone has the right to express an opinion and where the science is merely one component of the debate.
And even then, some very visible AGW scientists are saying that weather events can be related to climate change
So you cannot dismiss accusations that the AGW camp is equating weather and climate when convenient and beneficial to the cause and then hide behind the scientists that are sticking as closely as possible to the scientific method when someone calls you on it.
When Fascism comes to America, it will call itself Anti-Fascism, and tell you to give up your guns.
"Truth is in the middle" is an idea that assumes there's a fundamentally equal basis to "both sides." When it comes to science v. ignoramuses+shills, that's not really going to work.
Some points are wrong forever, and climate change denialism is one of them.
Not for any meaningful definition of "both sides" you haven't. The vast majority of what's said in the denial side has 0% representation, and you'll find more published fringe views suggesting cataclysm than that.