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Counterpoint: Why Edward Snowden May Not Deserve Clemency
Hugh Pickens DOT Com writes "Fred Kaplan, the Edward R. Murrow press fellow at the Council on Foreign Relation, writes at Slate that if Edward Snowden's stolen trove of beyond-top-secret documents had dealt only with the domestic surveillance by the NSA, then some form of leniency might be worth discussing. But Snowden did much more than that. 'Snowden's documents have, so far, furnished stories about the NSA's interception of email traffic, mobile phone calls, and radio transmissions of Taliban fighters in Pakistan's northwest territories; about an operation to gauge the loyalties of CIA recruits in Pakistan; about NSA email intercepts to assist intelligence assessments of what's going on inside Iran; about NSA surveillance of cellphone calls 'worldwide,' an effort that 'allows it to look for unknown associates of known intelligence targets by tracking people whose movements intersect.' Kaplan says the NYT editorial calling on President Obama to grant Snowden 'some form of clemency' paints an incomplete picture when it claims that Snowden 'stole a trove of highly classified documents after he became disillusioned with the agency's voraciousness.' In fact, as Snowden himself told the South China Morning Post, he took his job as an NSA contractor, with Booz Allen Hamilton, because he knew that his position would grant him 'to lists of machines all over the world [that] the NSA hacked.' Snowden got himself placed at the NSA's signals intelligence center in Hawaii says Kaplan for the sole purpose of pilfering extremely classified documents. 'It may be telling that Snowden did not release mdash; or at least the recipients of his cache haven't yet published — any documents detailing the cyber-operations of any other countries, especially Russia or China,' concludes Kaplan. 'If it turned out that Snowden did give information to the Russians or Chinese (or if intelligence assessments show that the leaks did substantial damage to national security, something that hasn't been proved in public), then I'd say all talk of a deal is off — and I assume the Times editorial page would agree.'"
The NSA's operations abroad are not against the organization charter, and are, therefor, not against the law.
Some of the revelations, however, while detailing operations that are technically legal, do paint the organzation in a light that shows it to be an unchecked body with too much power and not enough supervision.
The specific examples listed in the article may not be under the above category. Still, it is not clear who did the sifting through and filtering the material to decide what gets published. If Snowden did none of it, than those can be chalcked down to "collateral damage". If the bulk of the material is relevant for a whistle blower, I'd still go with clemancy.
Shachar
P.s.
Not that I, as a non-US citizen, or even resident, have a real say on the matter.
He doesn't deserve clemency, yeah. For clemency, you first need to do something wrong.
The creatures outside looked from Alt-Right to Antifa; but already it was impossible to say which was which.
This is one of those propositions that can only ever be in the past tense in a single logical state: busted.
These one-way allegations have a way of never dying, or at least not until it's back page news. Meanwhile, they muddy the waters a great deal just hanging there.
Neither is it self-evidently clear that the NSA's voraciousness is separable, to where informed public debate can exist with only one-half of the picture (aka the domestic half).
I think this article translates to: "it's our policy to never grant clemency under any conditions just in case we later discover a game-changing fact".
The option of a conditional clemency is fraught with unsolvable issues. Snowden could attest that he's never actually done any entirely non-clement things, and if were subsequently learned otherwise, his clemency could be revoked. This would be "clement until proven guilty".
Only for this to be workable, one would have to have a way to prove that the NSA never plants leaks of its own information to gain what it dearly wants—have I got a bridge to sell you—as there's no way to prove that a leak originated from Snowden unless the substance of the leak contains information one can verify the NSA never had at that time.
Good luck with that.
And somehow the subtext of all this seems to imply that the NSA's proven snookery (illegitimately authorized as far as the eye can see) should take a back seat to Snowden's unproven snookery (the worst things he might have done).
I don't blame the NSA for the lamentable standards of civic discourse. But neither can the agency hide from their legacy of operating behind a thick smoke screen of democratic false impressions.
Soldiers fight for our freedom? As if fighting in some third-world crap hole has anything to do with our freedom here in the United States. I think Snowden is a true hero. He didn't give his life for oil or empire, he gave his life for something that intimately has to do with *our* freedom.
Doctors destroy health, lawyers destroy justice, universities destroy knowledge, religion destroys spirituality
No, he chose to take *himself* to China and Russia, and I can't say I blame him.
Except they didn't, because Snowden didn't take his files with him, at least not unencrypted.
Are you kidding? This is their best propaganda coup in the past twenty years. They're not going to screw it up even if they don't get access to Snowden's files.
The rights enumerated in (but NOT granted by) the US Constitution are BASIC HUMAN RIGHTS to which every human being is entitled.
Every human being on Earth has a fundamental human right against unreasonable searches and seizures, unlawful arrests, and to be free of total government snooping and over-reaching police actions.
Exposing our violation of the rights of practically the entire Earth population was the right thing to do. Snowden deserves more than clemency. He deserves a sainthood.
The Ellsberg days are over, There is no open court for cleared material. You face the same people you are wanting the press to know about with your cleared lawyer... in a sealed court. Nothing will ever get out and you still face a US court.
Many good people in the US have tried the US court path, some with political protection. After the Ellsberg generation nothing much ever gets out to the tame press anymore.
http://cryptome.org/2013-info/06/whistleblowing/whistleblowing.htm
Getting out was the only way to get to the press. Now the press is releasing the material in its own way and the wider public can understand what they are getting when they use crypto.
http://cryptome.org/2013/11/snowden-tally.htm
http://cryptome.org/2014/01/nsa-codenames.htm
Russia just has to wait and see if the info has been pre sorted, is bait, a trap or has unique internal errors to track Russian spies within the USA.
Russia would be very careful with any free press material vs a person they understand working for them deep with in the US gov over years.
Domestic spying is now "Benign Information Gathering"
The military is NOT protecting me. Sorry, but the United States Military that exists today has NOTHING to do with protecting the citizens.
Do not look at laser with remaining good eye.
It might be considered that the NSA, and the supporting government, are the actual traitors, acting against the Constitution and the Bill of Rights, and Snowden is the actual hero. History (and to some extend, truth) being written by the victorious belligerent, the future will tell who's on whose side.
You know what would really be effective at stopping Al Qaeda? STOP FUNDING AND ARMING THEM!
http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2013/sep/20/kuhner-how-obama-arms-al-qaeda/
It's no secret that the US and Saudi Arabia have been giving Al Qaeda weapons and money when they do mercenary work. Yet somehow no one wants to talk about how to prevent Saudis from funneling money into Al Qaeda.
Let's face it, Al Qaeda is the real life Emmanuel Goldstein: controlled opposition used to justify all the totalitarian legislation that the people in power want to impose.
'It may be telling that Snowden did not release — or at least the recipients of his cache haven't yet published — any documents detailing the cyber-operations of any other countries, especially Russia or China,'
Why would he have access to Russian or Chinese documents?
If he did have access to Russian or Chinese documents, it would be because
- the NSA (or CIA or...) stole or snooped them and
- they would be important enough that they would be mentioned in the briefing powerpoints that make up so much of what Snowden apparently has access to.
In other words, this is a sign he is protecting some of the NSA's most truly important secrets, and also a sign that Kaplan is dealing in misinformation if not disinformation.
Edward Snowden committed no crimes against justice, he committed crimes against a police state, a big brother state that is and was becoming worse by the day. Edward Snowden did not steal anything, he liberated the truth. His continued freedom is proof that many others can achieve the same acts non-violent acts against a criminal state and work together to bring it down and put the minority that distort and corrupt democracy the world over finally behind bars where they belong.
Edward Snowden does not deserve clemency, he should not be charged in the first place. Until such time as he is called as a witness to testify against those who committed real criminal acts the world over, then he would be doing more harm than good by returning. His continued freedom is proof positive that you too can work to bring down a corrupt elements destroying you democracy, your freedom and your rights and do something that has been celebrated since time immemorial escape to fight another day. Each and every time Edward Snowden appears in public free to challenge those criminals is a victory.
Chaos - everything, everywhere, everywhen
So some guy from The Establishment says that Snowden and all future leakers should have somehow performed a humanly impossible feat of meta analysis on millions of documents which constitute proof of widespread criminal and unconstitutional activities . THAT is the standard leakers shall be held to. Or else. They're not leakers, and it's espionage.
So says the Council on Foreign Relations.
You can just seem them breaking into workshop gorups brainstorming how to spin the Snowden Affair so as to turn the American public against him and give the NSA defenders on PBS and FOX talking points.
"Hey polls show people think he's a whistleblower , but maybe if we can split that perception by appearing to agree with the public on *some* of the stuff while damning him with the other stuff, we can split the opposition."
This from the CFR. What did you expect? I used to think that the CFR might be some kind of collective voice of wisdom, experience and expertise on world affairs. You know, people who had wide ranging real world experience and were out of their posts or retired but still engaged and concerned.
I am an asshole this way; I impugn my own idealism to the actions of others.
The CFR is a bunch of hand picked academics and fucking yes men and women drawn from previous administrations and Ivy leagues universities whose main function is to think and live and produce "solutions" within the Skinner box out of which cookies , cake and ice cream have fallen to them their whole lives . They're entirely composed of and express the perspective of government and establishment academic institutions whose "think tanks" and "department chairs" are little more than hand-up-your-ass-moving-your-mouth , you-know-who-feeds-you-baby extensions of Washington officialdom and groupthink.
Good thing they weighed in on Snowden. I know we were all breathlessly awaiting their opinion on this matter.
"I'm sorry to report he trial balloon didn't float too well."
Kaplan is arguing that Snowden would have to be perfectly selective about what he took in order to "deserve" clemency. He would have to take from the NSA "the pound of flesh nearest the heart", without a drop of blood or grain of sinew or bone. That's an impossible standard.
Snowden shouldn't get mere "clemency". Snowden should get a full pardon for the laws he broke, plus the Presidential Medal of Freedom and/or the Congressional Gold Medal for exposing these totalitarian programs.
Because he took that new job, and started compromising the credentials of his co-workers (many of whom have now lost their careers)
First, there is no evidence that anyone got fired because snowden used their accounts. I invite you to prove me wrong.
Second, the NSA's director of technology has said that "the lion's share" of the information Snowden copied was available to anyone with a TS/SCI clearance at the NSA. Apparently the SCI part wasn't very well compartmentalized.
Third, complaining that other employees suffered career damage because of his actions doesn't change Snowden's motivations. You might as well argue that Snowden's a bad guy because his actions have forced Alexander to retire early.
He walked into that new gig with a specific agenda, essentially lying from the get-go about his motivations.
He knew there was a problem due to direct personal experience of it on his previous job and so he decided to get proof. So what? The alternative would have been what? To just pretend he didn't know anything was wrong? Without proof any whistleblowing would have been dismissed, he'd already seen that happen to the whistleblowers who came before him.
Take off the beer goggles and actually look at the reality of the situation.
Lol! #projection
When information is power, privacy is freedom.
On behalf of the men and women who serve in the military, I think your comment is ill advised.
Regardless of whether you, I or they agree with our government's actions, they risk everything to protect you the best way they know how. Don't blame the military for what you don't like. Become involved in politics to put decision makers in office that order the military to do what you believe is right.
I'm old enough to remember the shameful way that veteran's were treated returning from Viet Nam and I hope that horrible chapter in history is never repeated.
The fact that your comment is modded insightful to the max is pretty disturbing.
Greed is the root of all evil.
Also, his country wants to throw him in jail for exposing foul play, so he is forced to flee. Some other country offers shelter, perhaps in exchange for information, and so an idiot says "oh, that kind of betrayal is unforgivable". Really? Hey, US, protip: want to avoid the risk of defection? Then don't treat your own like enemies to start with.
The U.S. had EVERYTHING to do with Al Qaeda! In fact the CIA were the ones who started the whole thing back in the 80'a. Back in the 80's when Russia was at war with Afganistan it was the CIA who was funding, training and arming the Mujahideen - and guess who was the leader of the Mujahideen? Yup Osama Bin Laden! The part of the Mujahideen lead by Osama Bin Laden eventually became Al Qaeda. The U.S. CREATED and for the most part has some control of Al Qaeda. Heck even Anwar Al-Awlaki (the Al Qaeda leader DINED at the Pentagon months AFTER 9/11!
References:
Al Qaeda Leader Dined at the Pentagon Just Months After 9/11
http://www.infowars.com/al-qaeda-leader-dined-at-the-pentagon-just-months-after-911/
Dining with the enemy: Al Qaeda leader linked to 9/11 hijackers 'was invited to the Pentagon for lunch after attacks'
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1322397/Al-Qaedas-Anwar-Al-Awlaki-invited-Pentagon-lunch-9-11-attacks.html
Mujahideen
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mujahideen
Sec. State Clinton Admits U.S. Created Mujahideen that Became al-Qaeda
http://www.infowars.com/sec-state-clinton-admits-u-s-created-mujahideen-that-became-al-qaeda/
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K0Cc3LfhQ-o&feature=player_embedded
Mujahideen
Al-Qaeda
http://www.google.com/#hl=en&source=hp&q=mujahideen+al+qaeda&aq=0&aqi=g1g-m1&aql=&oq=mujahideen+al&gs_rfai=C07tUp9QoTOWrHYuugATN08X2CgAAAKoEBU_Qpa0Q&fp=e0fa4b5da4f245a4
http://www.infoplease.com/spot/al-qaeda-terrorism.html
"The Mujahideen
Al-Qaeda has its origins in the uprising against the Soviet occupation of Afghanistan. Thousands of volunteers from around the Middle East came to Afghanistan as mujahideen, warriors fighting to defend fellow Muslims. In the mid-1980s, Osama bin Laden became the prime financier for an organization that recruited Muslims from mosques around the world. These "Afghan Arab" mujahideen, which numbered in the thousands, were crucial in defeating Soviet forces"
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mujahideen
US, Pakistani and other financing and support
See also: Operation Cyclone
The mujahideen were significantly financed and armed (and are alleged to have been trained) by the United States Central Intelligence Agency (CIA) during the administrations of Carter[5] and Reagan, and also by Saudi Arabia, Pakistan under Zia-ul-Haq, Iran, the People's Republic of China and several Western European countries.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Allegations_of_CIA_assistance_to_Osama_bin_Laden
Claims have been made that the American government, and in particular the Central Intelligence Agency (CIA), are responsible for enabling "Afghan Arabs," and in particular Osama bin Laden's al-Qaeda.
In mid-1979, about the same time as the Soviet Union deployed troops into Afghanistan, the United States began giving several hundred million dollars a year in aid to the Afghan Mujahideen insurgents fighting the Afghan Marxist government and the Soviet Army in Operation Cyclone. Along with native Afghan mujahideen were Muslim volunteers from other countries, popularly known
The Truth is a Virus!!!
I would add:
First, this is exactly the kind of thing someone from the Council on Foreign Relations would be expected to say. No surprise there: "Let's keep control over everything and punish anybody who dares challenge!"
But let's put things in perspective: if the U.S. still behaved in a civilized and rational manner in regard to whistleblowers, he would not have had to escape the United States and seek asylum elsewhere. This is fundamentally the fault of our U.S. government. Government breaks the law and violates the Constitution (in a rather extreme manner) via the NSA. When that is exposed, government tries to retaliate, also in an extreme manner. Government drives the person with the offending documents somewhere else.
There is not a single step in this process that was not a direct result of government action. I've said this before, but I will repeat it:
Disobedience to government is not treason. Betraying your country and people is treason. Snowden committed the former. U.S. government committed the latter.