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The SEC Is About To Make Crowdfunding More Expensive

PapayaSF writes "Proposed new rules require that funding portals register with the Securities and Exchange Commission and the Financial Intermediary Regulatory Authority. In addition, investors must have access to a business plan, use of proceeds, a valuation of the company, and financials, so Certified Public Accountants may be needed. The SEC estimates that for amounts under $100,000, the fees will be 12.9% to 39% of the money raised, though it may drop to under 8% for higher amounts. Is this needed regulation, or bureaucratic overreach?"

23 of 366 comments (clear)

  1. Overreach by redmid17 · · Score: 5, Insightful

    It's overreach

    1. Re:Overreach by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 4, Insightful

      It's overreach

      Also known as "needed regulation" for a problem that does not exist.

    2. Re:Overreach by Spy+Handler · · Score: 2, Insightful

      It's the government's job to protect us from ourselves. Or so it thinks.

      Or put another way, a regulatory agency exists to create regulations.

      While I would agree that some regulations are necessary for a functional society, this ain't one of them. The people giving out money to Kickstarter and its ilk are not poor, not illiterate and they know what they're getting into. They're spending disposable income on toys and entertainment, not their rent money.

      Personally I don't give money to crowfunding and my opinion is that if some scoundrel absconds with your funds, well you kinda deserve it.

    3. Re:Overreach by Jah-Wren+Ryel · · Score: 4, Insightful

      > It's overreach

      I don't think so. The SEC regulates selling stock in companies and that is what they are doing here. It was less than a year ago that congress passed a law that would permit selling of shares via "crowdfunding." This is basically a way to solicit angel and first round investors. If a company wants that kind of money it seems to me that the stuff the SEC is requiring is a very reasonable bare minimum. Penny stocks are the playground of scammers, the SEC doesn't want the hype around crowdfunding to give them a new playground.

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    4. Re:Overreach by Will.Woodhull · · Score: 5, Insightful

      Also known as "needed regulation" for a problem that does not exist.

      Precisely.

      No mutual funds, retirement funds, or anything similar should have anything to do with crowdfunding. The SEC has no place here. Crowdfunding is similar to buying raffle tickets at a Church bazaar and the SEC has no business messing with those, either.

      The SEC has more than enough to do with figuring out how to manage their direct mandate and prevent Big Finance from screwing us all over yet again with some new and clever shiny like the sub prime mortgage instruments, etc. They still need to clean their own house. And quit looking around for something to divert attention from they way that agency has managed to so fuck things up for 20 or more years.

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    5. Re:Overreach by Mad+Bad+Rabbit · · Score: 4, Insightful

      This is all about small time investors and the attitude that somebody with a spare hundred dollars is incapable of being able to make an informed decision about a potential investment opportunity.

      Sounds more like the attitude that somebody with a spare hundred dollars should give the government $12 before they do anything else with it..

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    6. Re:Overreach by Khyber · · Score: 3, Insightful

      "The overreach, as it were, is that the federal government is sticking its nose into regulating commercial activity in a manner that is unconstitutional in the first place"

      You better re-read the commerce clause, as what it states clearly falls under what is happening here - regulation of commerce between the states. Crowdfunding doesn't stay in one state, and thus the government has the right to control it.

      I'm all against gov't overreach, but this is clearly stated in the constitution.

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    7. Re:Overreach by Aristos+Mazer · · Score: 3, Insightful

      No, this is a law that makes it legal to do something that was completely illegal before. Read the full article -- until the law was passed, it was totally illegal in the USA to sell shares in a new company by crowdsourcing. The new law makes it legal and directs the SEC to create rules under which it could happen. This is the rule the SEC is currently proposing.

      So, far from fixing a non-existent problem, this law is fixing a problem that many of us in tech have said exists: that small companies cannot get their start up funds from crowdsourcing their IPOs.

      I assume, armed with this new information, that you'll be cheering for President Obama taking action on this issue. I mean, there's a lot wrong with his administration, but at least blame him for things he's really screwed up, not for the stuff he's improved.

  2. 39%? Yikes! by Tablizer · · Score: 4, Insightful

    There should be an upper limit, perhaps around 10% of revenues.

  3. So the solution by DiSKiLLeR · · Score: 4, Insightful

    So the solution is to just use croudsourcing outside of the US? If you want to start a croudsourced business, move to Canada or elsewhere in the world?

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  4. You have money by Laxori666 · · Score: 2, Insightful

    They want it

    They will get it

  5. That's why we can't have nice things. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Insightful

    And what will we be getting in return for their wise and valuable oversight?

  6. Thanks Government by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 3, Insightful

    Fuck. If a company can put all of that together, they probably don't need crowdfunding in the first place. That's the ENTIRE POINT of having kickstarter in the first place! For ideas by small groups or single people who have nothing but a good idea. Everyone donating already understands the risk.

    1. Re:Thanks Government by Jah-Wren+Ryel · · Score: 5, Insightful

      If a company can put all of that together, they probably don't need crowdfunding in the first place. That's the ENTIRE POINT of having kickstarter in the first place!

      This has nothing to do with Kickstarter. This is about selling SHARES in these companies, not about prepaying for potential products. I'm no expert, but best as I can tell this rules will have zero effect on crowd-funding as sites like kickstarter and indiegogo have been doing it.

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    2. Re:Thanks Government by Nimey · · Score: 5, Insightful

      You're bringing facts into a thread dedicated to foaming about a flamebait[1] summary and how the government is inherently evil.

      [1] I almost wrote "clickbait", but clearly hardly anyone's clicked it.

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  7. Re:sounds like! by Tablizer · · Score: 5, Insightful

    Or maybe big business trying to squash competitors.

    While one often imagines left-leaning socialists wanting more regulations on everything, many times such legislation is merely big companies lobbying to stifle smaller companies, or even big competitors in slightly different industry categories.

    In Utah, some big companies lobbied to regulate the cosmetic industry in a way that put a lot of mom-and-pop beauty salons out of business. Thus, people would go to big-co franchises instead. (That's why Utahians are so ugly :-) .... just kiddin'

    Businesses only hate regulations that hurt themselves, but love regulations that stifle competition.

    Existing patent laws appear to be a form of this: they favor big patent portfolios and big lawyers, because smaller companies and individuals don't have the lobbying money behind them to make the patent rules more small-company-friendly.

  8. Perhaps not such a big deal by beernutmark · · Score: 5, Insightful

    Having not read the actual legislation, the following quote from the article seems quite important: "The legislation requires that the selling of crowdfund securities take place on registered websites."

    Notice the phase "selling of crowdfund securities." I think that most crowd funding doesn't involve the sale of securites and in fact most are just clever ways of pre-selling merchandise not yet made without having to give away any equity at all.

    Although I could be talking complete nonsense.

  9. I think this isn't talking about Kickstarter by Dachannien · · Score: 5, Insightful

    I'm not completely sure, but I think the SEC is talking about situations where a company avoids the traditional IPO process and instead "crowdfunds" the sale of securities in their company (either debt or equity). Kickstarter is generally different, because the return on "investment" is in the form of a set non-monetary reward that is more similar to a purchase than an investment.

    What is needed, though, is some clarity in the rulemaking process to ensure that Kickstarter and other similar sites can feel comfortable that they are not at risk of being caught up in this net.

  10. Re:Misleading summary by mysidia · · Score: 4, Insightful

    But is trying (as directed by that law) to allow crowdfunding where the donor award is a security; the current regulatory structure, based on the Securities Act, largely makes this sort of model impossible due to the various requirements of public offerings.

    If so... it's an improvement.... but the requirement that the entrepreneur front, essentially 39% of the funds, to raise less than $100K.. would appear to be unduly burdensome. The requirement for a CPA audit would also appear to be unduly burdensome.

    The person raising this money, should have a less-expensive option: that does not require losing a significant amount of their funding. And they should have an option of disclosing that no audit has been or will be performed.

    Whether no audit makes the offer unsatisfactory or not, should be the decision of potential investors, to be made based on their careful judgement in selecting potential investments, not the federal government.

  11. #I need securities.... by Half-pint+HAL · · Score: 4, Insightful

    No mutual funds, retirement funds, or anything similar should have anything to do with crowdfunding. The SEC has no place here. Crowdfunding is similar to buying raffle tickets at a Church bazaar and the SEC has no business messing with those, either.

    Sorry, nope. Prizes for a raffle should be obtained before tickets are sold, so that everyone knows what they're buying. I may not be guaranteed to win anything, but I know somebody will, and that the winning is determined by random chance. In crowdfunding, I may personally be taking a gamble, but if I "win", so does everybody else, and that winning is not regulated by chance, but by the ability of the project team to deliver.

    These abilities vary from project to project, unlike the rules of statistics, which are universal. It is therefore vital that someone assesses the credentials of crowdfunding projects, rather than leaving uninformed members of the public confused and convinced by pseudo-scientific technobabble.

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  12. Door slamming shut by fyngyrz · · Score: 5, Insightful

    That may be so, but what this amounts to is closing a door we just managed to open for small operations. Here we go again, only ops with access to big business resources will typically be able to meet these proposed criteria. If you had doubt that big business interests drive our legislation, this should help resolve those doubts. Small operations can pose a huge threat because they are, at times, considerably quicker off the mark than your average corporation with its bean counters, lawyers, middle management, reviews, and HR making sure you only get the most mediocre employees possible.

    This is mommy government at its typical get-in-the-way pursuits. The problem is, aside from complaining in fora like this one, there isn't much we can do about it unless some interested party's got deeper pockets than the corporations. Not too likely, seems to me.

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    1. Re:Door slamming shut by Bite+The+Pillow · · Score: 5, Insightful

      The article is not clear, but this is traditional investing via crowdsourcing. Selling securities or equity, like a normal IPO. This makes the same rules apply everywhere, and closes a loophole advantageous to people who could go the traditional route but decide not to.
      Kickstarter, where you pre-order merchandise, does not seem to be affected.
      Do you think the SEC should regulate investing any differently because it happens on the web? I'm assuming the answer is "oh, I misunderstood."

  13. Uh, no... by rsilvergun · · Score: 3, Insightful

    You're local EPA can measure it's success in PPM of various pollutants. But we sorta forget that (which is odd, what with all the news of China's cities, or with the "Smog Days" in major American Cities).

    Police measure crime rates. The Fed Reserve can measure economic growth. And the SEC can measure how much money was lost by investors on shoddy investments.

    A bit more regulation before the housing bust woulda been nice. Anyone remember Glass-Seagal? As Liz Warren pointed out we had 50 years w/o a major bust until we repealed that...

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