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Should Facebook 'Likes' Count As Commercial Endorsements?

Slashdot contributor Bennett Haselton writes: "Facebook settled out of court over displaying ads that told you which of your friends had 'liked' a product or service, and another lawsuit is currently pending over the use of minors' pictures specifically in similar ads. (Not to be confused with another recently filed lawsuit alleging that Facebook converts private messages into public 'likes'.) Google+ tried to limit its liability by only showing the faces of users over 18 when showing which friends 'like' a page. I'm all for more privacy for social networking users, and if it's true that Facebook has been silently marking users as publicly 'liking' a page because they mentioned the page in a private message, the plaintiff's lawyers ought to clean them out for that one. But in cases where you willingly and knowingly 'liked' a page, Facebook and Google+ ought to be able to tell that to your friends in advertisements, without being sued for it." Read on for the rest of Bennett's thoughts.

The rationale for the case against the Facebook 'your-friends-have-liked-this' ads, seems to be that Facebook is violating laws and social norms against using someone's image in a commercial endorsement without their permission. But I can only think of two reasons for why those laws and social norms exist, and neither of those reasons would seem to apply to Facebook 'likes.' The two main reasons that come to mind are (1) loss of control over one's image, and (2) the creation of the false impression that the company has paid for a product endorsement.

Consider first the issue of the loss of control over your image. You would probably be annoyed if a company took a picture of your face and started featuring it prominently in their advertisements without your permission. (If you had taken the photo yourself, then the company would of course also be on the hook for copyright infringement, but let's assume that the company had one of their photographers take the photo so that they owned the copyright, and the only issue is the unfair use of your likeness.) At that point, you have no control over the dissemination of the picture. Even assuming that you like the way you look in the picture, you might find it creepy to think of thousands of strangers looking at the photo of you (or your kids). That would be an argument in favor of requiring companies to get people's permission before using their likenesses in advertisements.

But that argument would not apply to an ad in your Facebook feed which shows you the profile pictures of friends who have 'liked' a page. Those profile pictures were uploaded by those users expressly so that their Facebook friends could see them. At any time, they can select a different 'profile picture', or remove any profile pictures that they no longer wish to be visible to friends. (Facebook took a lot of well-deserved criticism for exposing users' profiles and pictures to non-friends, as well, even for users who have disabled that setting — but that's a separate issue. The "ads" in question only display your pictures to your friends.)

Second, consider the issue of creating the false impression of a paid product endorsement. With traditional advertisements, it might seem strange that people respond to ads featuring a nice, attractive-but-not-in-your-face-attractive person using a product, even if the photo doesn't seem to directly convey any information about the product itself. What the photo really conveys is that the company behind the product has resources — to hire models, photographers, lighting crews, photo editors, and of course to buy the space to display the ad. This ostentatious display of "resources" might reassure a customer that the company similarly has the resources to test their product thoroughly, to replace a product that breaks, or to honor their returns policy. But it only works if the user believes that the company actually did spend money on all of those things to create the ad.

This is even more true of ads featuring paid celebrities. Steven Landsburg, in a passage from his book The Armchair Economist, writes:

"[I]t is also common to see products endorsed by celebrities who have no particular expertise, and who are obviously being paid for their testimony. Well-known actresses endorse health clubs; ex-politicians endorse luggage; in Massachusetts recently, a Nobel prize-winning economist endorsed automobile tires. People respond to these ads, and sales increase. What useful information can there be in knowing that the manufacturer of your overnight bag paid a six-figure fee to feature a famous person in a television commercial? How can it be rational to choose your luggage on this basis?

Let me suggest an answer. [...] Hiring a celebrity to endorse your product is like posting a bond. The firm makes a substantial investment up front and reaps returns over a long period of time. A firm that expects to disappear in a year won't make such an investment. When I see a celebrity endorsement, I know that the firm has enough confidence in the quality of its product to expect to be around awhile.

(The full argument is in the text of The Armchair Economist on Scribd, although you've probably got the idea.)

However, none of this applies to your friend's profile picture appearing in an ad in your Facebook feed. No rational person would think that meant that the friend had been paid for the endorsement, so the ad doesn't falsely convey anything about the company's "resources." (All you really know is that the company paid some money to buy the ad — but, unlike a print ad that appears in a national magazine, you have no idea how much they spent to promote their brand on Facebook just because you happen to be seeing the promotion.) The valuable information conveyed in the ad is just what it seems — at least one of your friends thought the company or product was cool enough to 'like' it.

(This argument does leave an interesting case uncovered. What if a real recognizable celebrity 'liked' a page on Facebook, and that company paid for a flurry of ads in people's Facebook feeds prominently featuring the celebrity's likeness, truthfully claiming that the celebrity liked their product, but without paying the celebrity? I don't happen to know of any real-life case where a company found out that a celebrity actually used their product, and then started advertising the fact that their product was used by that celebrity without actually paying the celebrity, using the defense that all they were doing was stating a true fact. (Tell me in the comments if you know if that's happened.) However, Facebook seems to have ducked that issue for now, because virtually no actual celebrities have regular user profiles on Facebook; they have official fan pages, clearly demarcating the line between "them" and "us." So the sponsored ads are not likely to include a real celebrity's likeness any time soon.)

Fundamentally, if an 'ad' appears in your Facebook feed telling you that some of your friends 'liked' a page, all that ad is doing is stating a true fact, something that Facebook ought to be allowed to do under the First Amendment. I don't agree with Mitt Romney that "corporations are people too, my friend," but they do have First Amendment rights, which I would argue should include the right to tell you if friends of yours have publicly indicated that they like a product or service.

One currently pending lawsuit against Facebook makes much of the fact that Facebook's ads were displaying the profile pictures of minors, and that California law requires the permission of a minor's parents to use their likeness in an ad. But when that law was drafted, the authors probably had in mind the kind of traditional advertisements that raise the two concerns above — where (1) the minor and their family lose control over the dissemination of their image, and (2) the use of the likeness creates the false impression of a paid advertisement. It's not obvious that they would have considered the law to apply to a note in your Facebook feed telling you that your friend had liked a page. To the extent that the law could be interpreted to prohibit those kinds of notifications, that's arguably a violation of Facebook's First Amendment rights.

Of course, I've made this argument by assuming that the two reasons listed at the top are the only reasons that a company should be required to get people's permission before using their likeness in advertisements, and that if those reasons don't apply to Facebook 'likes,' then the permission requirement should not apply. But there may be other reasons besides those two, reasons that would also apply to ads listing Facebook 'likes,' and then that would invalidate the argument. But in the meantime, even though I don't use Facebook, if I did, I'd tentatively be fine with Facebook showing my profile picture in 'ads' to friends listing me as one of a group of people who had 'liked' a particular page.

On the other hand, if Facebook is really scanning your private messages for mentions of a particular page, and then automatically indicating on your profile that you 'like' that page, then yes, that means that any 'likes' acquired in that manner were not intended by the user to be public, and yes, that changes everything.

189 comments

  1. Fuck off, Bennett by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Insightful

    Another Bennett wall of text. Does anyone actually read these?

    I'm surprised he didn't insert his whining about being rightfully pegged as a spammer.

    1. Re:Fuck off, Bennett by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      tl;dr = tl;dr

    2. Re:Fuck off, Bennett by east+coast · · Score: 1

      Let off some steam, Bennett.

      --
      Dedicated Cthulhu Cultist since 4523 BC.
    3. Re:Fuck off, Bennett by bennetthaselton · · Score: 0

      I read to the third word of your comment and stopped reading. Argh, WORDS!

    4. Re:Fuck off, Bennett by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      +1 like

    5. Re:Fuck off, Bennett by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      See? He needs all those words to avoid straw man arguments.

    6. Re:Fuck off, Bennett by lgw · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Why the heck are you still allowed to post on /.? Do you have juicy pictures of someone at Dice? Are you someone's nephew?

      We already know your views on every topic: whatever gives the powerful central authority even more power is what BH wants. You sure waste a lot of words in saying that, and very few here love totalitarianism the way you do, so how do you manage to twist Dice's arm?

      Damn, and this is just one more comment on a BH thread. I should be ashamed for doing anything but ignoring it, but I just couldn't help myself.

      --
      Socialism: a lie told by totalitarians and believed by fools.
    7. Re:Fuck off, Bennett by Hatta · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Where's the "onoitsbennett" tag?

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      Give me Classic Slashdot or give me death!
    8. Re:Fuck off, Bennett by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0, Insightful

      Fuck you, Bennett. You still haven't learned any editorial skills whatsoever, and you primarily need to learn that you should make your fucking point and then stop writing. You write too much, with too little substance, and with apparent lack of understanding of almost everything you write an opinion piece about. Go back to doing math or something else that you're good at, because you fucking SUCK at writing.

      Maybe you could write about the real reasons behind your resignation from Microsoft instead of just a copy of your personnel file - that would actually be a piece that people might want to read.

    9. Re:Fuck off, Bennett by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Insightful

      Before you submit a story, please spend more time condensing. People would be more receptive if you were articulate and to the point.

    10. Re:Fuck off, Bennett by bennetthaselton · · Score: 1

      We already know your views on every topic: whatever gives the powerful central authority even more power is what BH wants..

      I wrote: "If it's true that Facebook has been silently marking users as publicly 'liking' a page because they mentioned the page in a private message, the plaintiff's lawyers ought to clean them out for that one."

    11. Re:Fuck off, Bennett by ottothecow · · Score: 2, Insightful
      Does this moron get paid to post here or something?

      I always have enough Karma that I get the "disable advertising" checkbox, but I rarely bother checking it since I don't particularly mind them and slashdot has got to pay the bills somehow...

      Today I am clicking it. I am clicking it in protest of Bennett's continued ability to submit walls of moronic text to the front page. I am clicking it with hopes that I am depriving Dice of a minuscule amount or revenue that might help them consider whether they should continue publishing this swill.

      --
      Bottles.
    12. Re:Fuck off, Bennett by icebike · · Score: 4, Insightful

      I always have enough Karma that I get the "disable advertising" checkbox,

      I would trade that checkbox for a Disable Bennett checkbox!

      Why can't he post a blog, then hype that in a self aggrandizing submission like all the other click-bait authors?

      --
      Sig Battery depleted. Reverting to safe mode.
    13. Re:Fuck off, Bennett by Bite+The+Pillow · · Score: 1

      However, none of this applies to your friend's profile picture appearing in an ad in your Facebook feed.

      Really, then why did I read it?

      Seriously, anyone explains this to me? I'm a idiot.

    14. Re:Fuck off, Bennett by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Where's Sully?

  2. Ummmm .... by gstoddart · · Score: 5, Insightful

    (2) the creation of the false impression that the company has paid for a product endorsement.

    They have paid for a product endorsement. They just haven't paid you.

    But, joking aside, I believe it should be illegal to use my name or image to endorse a product without me being explicitly asked, and compensated. Anything else is a fraudulent use of my name.

    Oh, and Mark Zuckerberg is a douchebag.

    --
    Lost at C:>. Found at C.
    1. Re:Ummmm .... by Merls+the+Sneaky · · Score: 2

      It would be if you trademarked your face. Trademark your face / image and you could sue facebook for trademark infringement.

    2. Re:Ummmm .... by gstoddart · · Score: 3, Insightful

      You know, using my name or likeness without my permission for any reason shouldn't require trademark.

      It should be illegal to begin with -- because if you never asked me, you should have no bloody expectation you can legally do it.

      I, for instance, could not use Zuckerfuck's likeness to endorse adult diapers with built-in butt plugs.

      But somehow I'm expected to believe his EULA grants him the right to do this? I think not.

      --
      Lost at C:>. Found at C.
    3. Re:Ummmm .... by rjstanford · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Then why on earth did you "Like" the product, if you didn't want your friends to see that you "Liked" the product? Same comment but louder if you reviewed it.

      I agree with the sentiment - if they're pretending you "Liked" something when you just mentioned it, that's bad. But the whole point - indeed, the only point - of giving something a "Like" is to share your opinion with others. Don't pretend to be surprised when the sharing happens.

      --
      You're special forces then? That's great! I just love your olympics!
    4. Re:Ummmm .... by iplayfast · · Score: 1

      Except for the Mark Zuckerberg comment (I don't know him personally) I totally agree with you.
      If they had a dislike would they use that for anti-endorsements?

    5. Re:Ummmm .... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      You expressly agreed to this usage when you continued to use FB. These cases end up getting changed to a FB-friendly venue, or just dismissed outright with prejudice.

      TOS and EULAs hold up in court extremely well. In fact, there has never been a case where one has ever been stuck down, even EULAs with a provision that the software has the capability to physically destroy the hardware it is running on if the software flagged itself was stolen/unauthorized.

      If FB stated that they could claim complete ownership of any device their stuff ran on, then physically came to take the smartphone, tablet, or computer, that is within their right.

      If you don't like it, stop agreeing to stupid contracts.

    6. Re:Ummmm .... by fatphil · · Score: 1

      Never having used facebook (or even successfully viewed a page on it, when I've ended up following fb links, I've been served nothing but a login screen, which is quite useless), I might not have this right, but as far as I've read when you "like", you're only liking a single message - such as a funny advertising image/video. And whilst you may like that single image/vid, that should not be taken as endorsing the product being advertised. So you didn't actually ``"Like" the product'' /per se/.

      --
      Also FatPhil on SoylentNews, id 863
    7. Re:Ummmm .... by gstoddart · · Score: 4, Interesting

      But the whole point - indeed, the only point - of giving something a "Like" is to share your opinion with others. Don't pretend to be surprised when the sharing happens.

      No, that's an interpretation, but it isn't a correct one.

      If I like something on Facebook, it's because I would like to see their future updates. Period.

      It isn't a commercial endorsement, and I don't necessarily want everybody I know to be informed of that fact (and I sure as hell don't give a damn that my Aunt has Liked "Cute Cat Pictures Volume 693").

      --
      Lost at C:>. Found at C.
    8. Re:Ummmm .... by EvilSS · · Score: 1

      But, joking aside, I believe it should be illegal to use my name or image to endorse a product without me being explicitly asked, and compensated.

      It usually is. It's one of the few times you do have some control over your own image. There may be something hidden in their TOS that you are signing away that right as a user though.

      --
      I browse on +1 so AC's need not respond, I won't see it.
    9. Re:Ummmm .... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      It's no interpretation. It's spelled out in the ToS you agreed to. Maybe you should have read it?

    10. Re:Ummmm .... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      You know, using my name or likeness without my permission for any reason shouldn't require trademark.

      It should be illegal to begin with -- because if you never asked me, you should have no bloody expectation you can legally do it.

      So it should be illegal to run news stories about anyone without their approval. Or you didn't think your position through. One of those.

    11. Re:Ummmm .... by TheCarp · · Score: 5, Insightful

      Except like doesn't always mean like.

      You have to like a group or product just to be able to post on the page about it and be part of the discussion. So, if I see something I don't like, if I see a product that is a scam or that didn't work as advertised, I can't even post in a group discussing it unless i hit "like"

      In short, they took other concepts like "subscribe", conflated them into their "like" button and now are trying to claim that because you hit the button called "like" that you actually like whatever it is.

      This would be a little like me replacing my doorbell with a button that says "I love surprise anal sex", and then publishing pictures of everyone who comes to visit me with the slogan "These people love surprise anal sex". Does that really seem legit?

      --
      "I opened my eyes, and everything went dark again"
    12. Re:Ummmm .... by rjstanford · · Score: 1

      If I like something on Facebook, it's because I would like to see their future updates. Period.

      And the "cost" of having an expensive third-party distribution network to provide those same updates to you is that your request is semi-public knowledge (in that you self-select the group of friends who can see it). Not unreasonable, methinks, and spelled out in both the letter and the spirit of your relationship with FB.

      --
      You're special forces then? That's great! I just love your olympics!
    13. Re:Ummmm .... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I, for instance, could not use Zuckerfuck's likeness to endorse adult diapers with built-in butt plugs.

      Would those be called "Dry, Butt..." adult diapers?

    14. Re:Ummmm .... by rjstanford · · Score: 3, Informative

      You can like a "page" (concept/business/celebrity/etc), a comment made by a page or an individual, or a response-comment made by a page or an individual. The only ones that I've ever even heard of showing up as "likes" in the "Your friend Bob likes GreaseBurgers!" sense are the first sort in that list. Facebook does provide another, easily ignored "chatter" type stream that might show you "Bob likes GreaseBurger's comment 'Cholesterol is a government conspiracy'" but they always clearly differentiate the two ideas.

      --
      You're special forces then? That's great! I just love your olympics!
    15. Re:Ummmm .... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Amazingly, "it's in the ToS" is not a magical phrase that automatically makes something okay.

    16. Re:Ummmm .... by bill_mcgonigle · · Score: 1

      You have to like a group or product just to be able to post on the page about it and be part of the discussion. So, if I see something I don't like, if I see a product that is a scam or that didn't work as advertised, I can't even post in a group discussing it unless i hit "like"

      Facebook might argue thusly:

      * You don't have a right to post on a page.
      * Facebook restricts posting on a page to people who like that page. (literal sense).
      * People who 'like' a page who don't really like the page, are clicking the 'like' button fraudulently.
      * There is no contractual obligation to protect the interests of users who are fraudulently using the service.

      --
      My God, it's Full of Source!
      OUTSIDE_IP=$(dig +short my.ip @outsideip.net)
    17. Re:Ummmm .... by Desler · · Score: 1

      They didn't say it was ok. Simply that the statement is not an "interpretation" as it's explicitly stated in the TOS how they treat likes.

    18. Re:Ummmm .... by Baloroth · · Score: 4, Insightful

      But the whole point - indeed, the only point - of giving something a "Like" is to share your opinion with others. Don't pretend to be surprised when the sharing happens.

      No, that's an interpretation, but it isn't a correct one.

      If I like something on Facebook, it's because I would like to see their future updates. Period.

      Seriously? That's how you interpret clicking the "like" button in a social network which is specifically and from the very beginning designed to share stuff with other people? And you think he has the wrong interpretation?

      Well, that's certainly an... interesting position to take.

      --
      "None can love freedom heartily, but good men; the rest love not freedom, but license." --John Milton
    19. Re:Ummmm .... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I might argue thusly:

      - Facebook don't have an inherent right to demand that I protect their private property;
      - But, as long as they abide by society's rules, we'll protect it;
      - People who "like" a page are clearly not knowingly and willingly providing commercial endorsement;
      - So, if Facebook wants to operate within society, it mustn't rely on lawyer games to claim otherwise.

    20. Re:Ummmm .... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      sometimes you need to like a post in order to get a coupon or further info about whatever it is they are advertising on their page.

    21. Re:Ummmm .... by TheCarp · · Score: 1

      They might argue that, and they might have every right to suspend my account for doing so.

      However, I don't see how that adds up to a reasonable expectation, especially since this sees no enfocrement whatsoever, that people who like a page actually litterally like it. Any such claim would do little more than display their own ignorance as to how their own service is actually used.

      Seeing as there is no enforcement, and it is rather common for people to use the like button other than in this manner, I don't see how this adds up to any implication of consent in the use of my or anyone else's likeness in advertising.

      --
      "I opened my eyes, and everything went dark again"
    22. Re:Ummmm .... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      > I believe it should be illegal to use my name or image to endorse a product without me being explicitly asked, and compensated. Anything else is a fraudulent use of my name.

      Sigh... as if they cant just slip that into their TOS.

    23. Re:Ummmm .... by fatphil · · Score: 1

      OK, thanks for that. I do remember a story very much like this one coming up a few years ago, and that time it was framed as suckers liking adverts (and the misinterpretation of that as endorsing the product).

      From my position of almost total ignorance and not giving flying monkey bollock, I'd say that once a sucker's asked facebook to associate himself with a business or celebrity, then he's given permission for facebook to associate that business or celebrity with you. And the fact that association is called "like" (localised too, so no excuses for foreigners), should be a clue that that association will be presented in a positive light.

      Maybe there should be a "stalk" option which lets you follow updates on a page without being associated with it. (As some have said that they like to keep tabs on enemies, which seems to be rather a waste of energy, and almost certainly gives the enemy too many "strokes" in TA terms, which will only encourage them.)

      --
      Also FatPhil on SoylentNews, id 863
    24. Re:Ummmm .... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2

      GP is right: "Like" on Facebook pages actually means "follow"/"subscribe". It's just obnoxiously named.

    25. Re:Ummmm .... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      So first they had a EULA. Not good enough consent.
      Then they had you actually click on a clearly-labeled button every single time. Not good enough consent.

      Now "how their own service is actually used" is Facebook's problem? They have to read your mind, or send lawyers to your house with lie detectors?

    26. Re:Ummmm .... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      No, he's not. From the terms of service:

      You give us permission to use your name, profile picture, content, and information in connection with commercial, sponsored, or related content (such as a brand you like) served or enhanced by us. This means, for example, that you permit a business or other entity to pay us to display your name and/or profile picture with your content or information, without any compensation to you. If you have selected a specific audience for your content or information, we will respect your choice when we use it.

      And since likes are default a public thing it is shared with everyone unless you specifically limit the audience.

    27. Re:Ummmm .... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      There is an easy solution, stop using Facebook. It's difficult for me to feel sorry for anyone who willfully uploads shit to Facebook, thereby granting them a worldwide, perpetual right to use that shit for whatever they want. The mere thought of wanting privacy on a social network is stupid. You are the one ultimately in control. You choose to be "social" and to put yourself "out there" or not.

      See, I have none of these complaints about Facebook using my picture or my IP because I don't give that stuff to them in the first place. I avoid all "social networking" sites like the plague. They aren't constructive and serve no purpose other than to act as a childish popularity contest amongst fake friends.

    28. Re:Ummmm .... by TheCarp · · Score: 1

      Except it is not a clearly labeled button, it is a button which has a function far beyond its label.

      Fuck facebook and anyone else trying to trick people into giving consent based on fraudulent labels.

      --
      "I opened my eyes, and everything went dark again"
    29. Re:Ummmm .... by bill_mcgonigle · · Score: 1

      Except it is not a clearly labeled button, it is a button which has a function far beyond its label.

      Strictly speaking, this isn't so. 'Like' is a well-defined word. That Facebook grants extra access to people who like certain things doesn't change the meaning of the word.

      Are we ready for Tonika yet?

      --
      My God, it's Full of Source!
      OUTSIDE_IP=$(dig +short my.ip @outsideip.net)
    30. Re:Ummmm .... by icebike · · Score: 0

      They have paid for a product endorsement. They just haven't paid you.

      You volunteered by joining Facebook. Nuf said.
      If you had an actual life, you wouldn't be on Facebook.

      --
      Sig Battery depleted. Reverting to safe mode.
    31. Re:Ummmm .... by icebike · · Score: 4, Insightful

      It should be illegal to begin with -- because if you never asked me, you should have no bloody expectation you can legally do it.

      You joined Facebook, and you lost that argument in the same single act.

      --
      Sig Battery depleted. Reverting to safe mode.
    32. Re:Ummmm .... by icebike · · Score: 1

      This!.

      --
      Sig Battery depleted. Reverting to safe mode.
    33. Re:Ummmm .... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      There could be a fair use exception for that. But, really the reporters are way too fast to publish people's names. People regularly get charged with posession of child pornography and such that turn out to be innocent, or at least where the prosecutor can't prove that they're guilty. Should these people have to live the rest of their lives being punished because some jackasses at the local paper felt the need to publish their names prior to conviction?

      Plus a lot of those news stories about celebrities aren't any of our business, they don't further any legitimate cause and would be considered non-news if it was a non-famous person that was engaging in it.

    34. Re:Ummmm .... by drinkypoo · · Score: 1

      I can see both sides of this argument. Look at it this way: It's eminently reasonable for them to announce the number of likes, but since it's still illegal to use your likeness for profit without your consent, using your name is another thing entirely.

      --
      "You're right," Fisheye says. "I should have set it on 'whip' or 'chop.'"
    35. Re:Ummmm .... by bickerdyke · · Score: 1

      But the whole point - indeed, the only point - of giving something a "Like" is to share your opinion with others. Don't pretend to be surprised when the sharing happens.

      No, that's an interpretation, but it isn't a correct one.

      Can you offer any other interpretion of declaring "I like XY" in front of either your friends or in public?

      You're clicking like to show others (either friends or the public) that you like something. Otherwise the button would be called "I don't care". And there is no reason to tell yourself what you like using facebook. (except some special medical conditions)

      --
      bickerdyke
    36. Re:Ummmm .... by bickerdyke · · Score: 2

      You have to like a group or product just to be able to post on the page about it and be part of the discussion. So, if I see something I don't like, if I see a product that is a scam or that didn't work as advertised, I can't even post in a group discussing it unless i hit "like"

      In short, they took other concepts like "subscribe", conflated them into their "like" button and now are trying to claim that because you hit the button called "like" that you actually like whatever it is.

      That may have been their intent or not, but you still should not be surprised if someone takes your like at face value.

      I bet you have seen lots of company statements bragging with their huge number of "likes". Have you ever heard any of them differentiate on what the users might have meant with "like"? No. Because it's all the same. Big number of likes = big money. If you hit like to show your dislike of something, you fell for their trap.

      Show your dislike of something by keeping the like numbers low.

      This would be a little like me replacing my doorbell with a button that says "I love surprise anal sex", and then publishing pictures of everyone who comes to visit me with the slogan "These people love surprise anal sex". Does that really seem legit?

      Don't know and don't care. But would you be surprised if less people than before rang on your doorbell? Would YOU ring such a button if you don't like surprise anal sex?

      Does a speed limit sign sometimes does not mean a speed limit? Does signing a contract for buying something that you don't have to pay the agreed sum? More or less, or not at all? Has the excuse of "But I thought it's opposite day today!" ever worked?

      Things may not always mean what they say, but you should NOT be surprised if someone who doesn't know that "secret agreement" takes something at face value.

      --
      bickerdyke
    37. Re:Ummmm .... by bickerdyke · · Score: 1

      Interpretation as "like" It would only be fraudulent if it would NOT say "like".

      --
      bickerdyke
    38. Re:Ummmm .... by bickerdyke · · Score: 1

      If they had a dislike would they use that for anti-endorsements?

      I doubt they would, but would do it without fraud or lies. "User iplayfast dislikes XY" is a completly valid conlcusion when you hit a hypothetic dislike button.

      "But I clicked dislike to show how I love XY" does NOT hold water.

      The fact that they couldn't use those clicks for ads is probably the whole reason why such a button does not exist. (which in turn should make you extra aware of the meaning of the like button)

      --
      bickerdyke
    39. Re:Ummmm .... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      This is an extremely FALSE assumption. 'Liking' something on Facebook does not necessarily imply I want my PERSONAL opinion shared with others as opposed to an 'aggregate' opinion. Specifically it's 1 thing to say 'Brad Pitt Liked product ' it's entirely different thing to say '100,000 out of 4 billion Facebook users Liked product ', both may be true but 1 of them is supplying information that Brad Pitt may not having wanted to share at all. If Brad Pitt wants to tell the world he likes a product he'll other tell them in a Twitter or Facebook post OR he'll get paid for telling you that in an advertisement. I will do the same thank you very much!

      (PS. I no longer use FB anyway specifically because I knew they'd just start all kinds of nonsense with my data without asking me.)

    40. Re:Ummmm .... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      See, there's the misinterpretation right there. 'Liking' something while logged in to your FB account is NOT 'declaring in front of friends or the public' in ANY sense. It is a personal interaction with the specific owner of the content that you 'liked', so you could be easily just be wanting to tell the company that you 'liked' their product. Which would be akin to phoning them up & telling them so, but I'm betting you'd be pissed if you heard a recording of yourself saying so in some advertisement! Another interpretation of 'Liking' or using Google '+1' is that I want to add my 'aggregate vote' to a product endorsement, allowing the company for instance to claim '100,000 FB users liked our product', which could be true & doesn't expose my personal data or opinions to anyone without my explicit consent.If you want your personal opinion about a product exposed to your friends or to the public just say so in Twitter or a public FB post THAT is 'declaring in front of friends & the public' not 'liking' something.

    41. Re:Ummmm .... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      You joined Facebook, and you lost that argument in the same single act.

      Anyone stupid enough to use Facebook gets just what they deserve.

    42. Re:Ummmm .... by wvmarle · · Score: 2

      Said like a typical USAian whose world isn't bigger than that.

      Laws and regulations vary. Trademarked in one country doesn't mean it's trademarked in the rest of the world (trademarks are specifically location and product related).

      Using such photos varies per country, but in general it's not considered OK to use one's face as endorsement for a product, without this person knowing about it. That's also in part the reason those famous sports players or movie stars can get those lucrative product endorsement contracts. That you and I are not famous beyond our fifteen people or minutes, doesn't change this basic rule.

      And the whole story just another endorsement of my "no likes" policy. I don't "like" anything, except for some non-commercial pages that I like to follow. (And thanks to that @#$&$ newsfeed I still don't get the updates I ask for! Not clicking on a post, or not commenting/liking it, doesn't mean I don't want to see more of their updates.)

    43. Re:Ummmm .... by iplayfast · · Score: 1

      The fact that they couldn't use those clicks for ads is probably the whole reason why such a button does not exist. (which in turn should make you extra aware of the meaning of the like button)

      I try not to read things into other people's assumptions about the meaning of like.

    44. Re:Ummmm .... by SeaFox · · Score: 1

      It would be if you trademarked your face. Trademark your face / image and you could sue facebook for trademark infringement.

      Nice try, but keep in mind Facebook likely has a clause in their terms of service saying that anything you post they are free to monetize/use without compensating you. They would just say since you uploaded your photo to their servers you gave them a license to the trademarked visage.

    45. Re:Ummmm .... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I, for instance, could not use Zuckerfuck's likeness to endorse adult diapers with built-in butt plugs.

      If you heard him publicly endorsing of them - then yes, you should be able to use his name, at least, in connection with said diapers.

      The major question in this case is whether a Facebook "like" counts as an endorsement - or whether, as other people have pointed out, it's just Facebook's alternate name for "bookmark".

    46. Re:Ummmm .... by sjames · · Score: 1

      As soon as Facebook introduced a 'like' button that had a functionality beyond indicating like in the dictionary sense, the definition in the context of Facebook changed. Many words have different definitions in different contexts. I'm pretty sure clicking 'like' does not (for example) mean the same as a boy liking a girl in elementary school.

      For that matter, the dictionary definition is descriptive rather than prescriptive, and so is subject to change.

      Then there's the question of what exactly do you like when you 'like' something on Facebook. You might like the product, the picture, the clever turn of phrase, or even the opportunity to tell people how much the product disgusts you. Liking something in the context of an ad is a different context with a different meaning. Facebook is literally taking people's likes out of context and by doing so, may be mis-representing them.

    47. Re:Ummmm .... by sjames · · Score: 1

      Does a speed limit sign sometimes does not mean a speed limit?

      Yes, when it is hanging on the wall as a decoration.

      Does signing a contract for buying something that you don't have to pay the agreed sum?

      Yes if you do so as an actor playing your part.

      Context is everything.

  3. "Willingly and Knowingly" by MarkvW · · Score: 1

    Aye, there's the rub.

    WTF does willingly and knowingly mean? BS weasel words, in this context.

    1. Re:"Willingly and Knowingly" by bickerdyke · · Score: 1

      No. It means that you saw the button and had control of the mouse pointer and can be expected to know the meaning of the word "like".

      You neither unwillingly clicked like (someone forced you or some malware faked a like click) and you knew that you were clicking.

      --
      bickerdyke
  4. Many "Likes" are like a cheap "Cash for Comment" by ivi · · Score: 1

    So, everybody likes a deal, &
    few resist giving a false "Like"
    in response to a freebie or big discount on something they want.

    Therefore, many / most "Likes" are meaningless CfC's. IMO.

  5. Still not deep enough? by furbyhater · · Score: 4, Insightful

    Stop using facebook. Now.

    1. Re:Still not deep enough? by TheRaven64 · · Score: 3, Informative

      I had some sympathy for Facebook users, because I've so far met one person (and I've asked a few dozen) who had both read and agreed to the Facebook terms and conditions, and he only read the first set, not each subsequent set. But now that there have been a great many stories in the mainstream press about what Facebook does and how it makes its money? If you're still on Facebook, you deserve everything you get.

      --
      I am TheRaven on Soylent News
  6. It's their site who cares by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Don't use it if you don't like it

  7. Bookmarks by Allicorn · · Score: 2

    Or maybe "like" is an term with no formal meaning here and I'm just "liking" page because that's what we call "bookmarks" on this particular website. Or "favorites", or "starred", or whatever. I might even be "liking" the page because I want to remember what a bunch of douchebags the associated outfit have been to me or my family in the past and want to keep an eye on their marketing babble so that I can warn friends/family not to be caught out by it.

    When I "favorite" a website in Internet Explorer, nobody thinks it implies I commercially endorse whatever organization's page it was. Why should a "like" infer that.

    Of course in practice I firewall Facebook at the router.

    --
    OMG!!! Ponies!!!
    1. Re:Bookmarks by bickerdyke · · Score: 1

      Or maybe "like" is an term with no formal meaning here and I'm just "liking" page because that's what we call "bookmarks" on this particular website.

      Then use friggin bookmarks if you want bookmarks! But don't fake surprise when someone tells you that "like" means "like" and not "bookmark".

      Misusing "likes" as bookmarks might work for a while, but so might do filling the amount on your checks with your lucky lottery numbers. "Oh I thought that "amount" is what lottery numbers are called on those forms"...

      Don't blame anyone else for what you think something means.

      --
      bickerdyke
  8. Facebook is the worst by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    I can't wait for the trend of social networking to be over.

    1. Re:Facebook is the worst by Russ1642 · · Score: 2

      The whole 'internet' thing is just a fad too.

  9. "like" and "friend" meanings are confusing by joe_frisch · · Score: 5, Insightful

    FB uses the tern "friend" to describe someone with whom you wish to have some level of communication, not someone who fits the conventional definition of "friend". The action of "like" is used in FB to indicate an acknowledgement of some post, not necessarily approval - I've seen people "like" posts about horrific events.

    To further confuse things, companies will collect "inappropriate" likes. Some vendor vendor posts a picture of a cute kitten. People "like" the picture in the hopes that their friends will see it as well. That "like" in no way indicates that they actually recommend the (often completely unrelated) product. Sometimes it isn't even obvious to users that they are endorsing a commercial product.

    This leads to a rather confusing landscape where people (who are not actually friends), are listed as "liking" a product that they do not in any way actually endorse. Whether advertising that "your friends like this product" is deceptive or not depends on whether you are using the conventional or FB definitions of "friends" and "like".

    Personally I completely ignore this sort of endorsement because I understand what it really means (which is nothing). I make an effort to avoid "liking" any commercial links to avoid giving the impression that I endorse their products.

    1. Re:"like" and "friend" meanings are confusing by rjstanford · · Score: 2, Funny

      Some vendor vendor posts a picture of a cute kitten. People "like" the picture in the hopes that their friends will see it as well. That "like" in no way indicates that they actually recommend the (often completely unrelated) product.

      Aha - I have a solution! Facebook should create, at their own expense, a "Share" button that works orthogonally to the "Like" button. It could even sit next to it to avoid confusion so that people aiming at one would see the other and be able to decide which better indicates their sentiment. Would that meet your requirements, good sir?

      --
      You're special forces then? That's great! I just love your olympics!
    2. Re:"like" and "friend" meanings are confusing by msobkow · · Score: 1

      Until I can also register a "dislike" of a product or service, Facecrap has no business thinking I endorse anything.

      --
      I do not fail; I succeed at finding out what does not work.
    3. Re:"like" and "friend" meanings are confusing by phantomfive · · Score: 1

      The worst is when your 'like' becomes a commercial thing after the fact.

      For example, I marked that I 'like' chess. Later, that somehow become owned by chess.com, which is a completely different matter.

      --
      "First they came for the slanderers and i said nothing."
    4. Re:"like" and "friend" meanings are confusing by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Yes, but facebook pulls the same BS there too... If you share a page and even say bad things about it. Facebook will just assume you somehow "like" it, and tell all your friends about it.

    5. Re:"like" and "friend" meanings are confusing by rjstanford · · Score: 1

      Actually they're painfully explicit and will tell all your friends about the fact that you shared the page. Which, indeed, they have to do in order to comply with your request to actually share the page.

      Remember, telling your FB-Friends what actions you take on FB pages and widgets is the entire point of Facebook. Its not a big, dark conspiracy that's out to get you.

      --
      You're special forces then? That's great! I just love your olympics!
  10. California right to publicity by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Every time I read law stuff here, I wish I weren't a lawyer.

    Anyway, Facebook's "like" ads are not substantially different from the facts in White v. Samsung Electronics: it was “not important how the defendant has appropriated the plaintiff’s identity, but whether the defendant has done so.”

    1. Re:California right to publicity by bickerdyke · · Score: 1

      Every time I read law stuff here, I wish I weren't a lawyer.

      I like.

      --
      bickerdyke
  11. BLAH BLAH BLAH by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Bleep blorp blippity blop I don't know fuck all yet I must write a whole lot of stuff about the piffly fuck all I know about

    because my name is benet haseltan and I don't believe in privacy or the fourth amendment. All hail face buck.

  12. I don't always *like* because I like something. by t0qer · · Score: 2

    Sometimes I *like* something because I want to follow it. I might not like some of my local politicians, but I still like their pages just so I can follow what train wreck policy they might be putting to a vote that week. Liking it makes it conveniently show up on my newsfeed.

    1. Re:I don't always *like* because I like something. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      That is why I like Google+. You have the +1 to like and the option to follow or no +1 and just follow.

    2. Re:I don't always *like* because I like something. by mlts · · Score: 1

      The problem is when one likes the trainwreck politicos, those likes seem to get propagated to friends, and they start to question my sanity.

      What I'd like to have is a context split. A "follow" button which is no way the same thing as a "like" button.

    3. Re:I don't always *like* because I like something. by bickerdyke · · Score: 1

      Sometimes I *like* something because I want to follow it.

      Feel free to do so.

      Feel free to put a personal message in the name field of an order form if there is no field for messages. But don't be surpriseed if it shows up on the parcel as recipient. I think the technical term for such an idea is "nice try.".

      I might not like some of my local politicians, but I still like their pages just so I can follow what train wreck policy they might be putting to a vote that week. Liking it makes it conveniently show up on my newsfeed.

      You're making use of a side effect of a "like" statement. It's like using aspirin to prevent heart diesease and being surprised that it makes your heqadache go away.

      Yes, bookmarks and follows would be nice features on fb. But simulating them by making use of the side effects of other features is at your own risk.

      --
      bickerdyke
    4. Re:I don't always *like* because I like something. by bickerdyke · · Score: 1

      Fantastic idea!

      Could such a button used for advertisments? Then I wouldn't hold my breath for it.

      --
      bickerdyke
    5. Re:I don't always *like* because I like something. by wvmarle · · Score: 1

      If only the news feed reliably worked like that...

  13. What is a "Like" worth? by Carcass666 · · Score: 2

    A lot of commercial "likes" are generated as opt-ins to contests and the like. For example, a local news channel will instruct its viewers to like a certain Facebook page to be eligible to win something. To me, the commercial value of a "like" would be low, I don't know of anybody who says "I will buy XXX instead of YYY because they have more likes on their Facebook page" (or more followers on Twitter, whatever). I don't ses the ROI on social media engagement, unless you are a marketing firm or consultancy charging by the project or hour.

    1. Re:What is a "Like" worth? by gstoddart · · Score: 3, Interesting

      I don't ses the ROI on social media engagement, unless you are a marketing firm or consultancy charging by the project or hour.

      My guess is there's little empirical evidence to suggest there's much (or any) ROI.

      But, marketing wankers being what they are, have decided social media is the new thing, and they will use that as much as they can.

      The fact that there are companies who you can pay to get you more followers on Twitter or fake friends on Facebook pretty much sums up its value.

      But it's also hard to deny seeing the Facebook and Twitter logos on damned near everything these days. People clearly believe it works and provides value.

      --
      Lost at C:>. Found at C.
    2. Re:What is a "Like" worth? by fatphil · · Score: 1

      A few local pubs and live music venues offer discounts, for many of their events to those who have "like"d that venue/event. For them, it's hard for it to have anything apart from negative value. Unless those "like"ing them are so fickle that they wouldn't turn up if it were a euro more. But is that really the kind of market you want to rely on and cater to?

      --
      Also FatPhil on SoylentNews, id 863
    3. Re:What is a "Like" worth? by gstoddart · · Score: 1

      For them, it's hard for it to have anything apart from negative value.

      Tough to say ... sometimes giving discounts nets you more in the long run because people come in and spend money.

      Loss leaders and discounts can still be profitable.

      --
      Lost at C:>. Found at C.
    4. Re:What is a "Like" worth? by bickerdyke · · Score: 1

      If anything, this only shows that people are willing to lie for nothing but peanuts.

      If you were a celebrity and accepted a big sum to shoot an advertisment, would you be surprised if that commercial was aired? Of course not! That's what the money was for!

      And if you accept a discount or participation in sweepstakes to make a public statement that you like something? Come crying "But I didn't really mean it" and you admit not only to be a sock puppet, but a cheap sock puppet.

      --
      bickerdyke
  14. Example of uncompensated "endorsement" by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    It's rarely done because the celebrity, without a contract preventing such a thing, can publicly state that they do not endorse (or possibly even like) your product after you've spent significant money on the advertising.

    However, here is a case where a company featured President Obama simply wearing their brand of coat. After only 3 days, the company was asked to remove it. No lawsuit, no laws broken. Just a reminder that the President did not and would not endorse their product. The company wasted their money.

    http://www.cnn.com/2010/POLITICS/01/08/obama.billboard/

    1. Re:Example of uncompensated "endorsement" by petermgreen · · Score: 1

      The company wasted their money.

      Did they though? Ok they didn't get to leave the poster up as long as they planned but they did get a news article written about them drawing attention to the fact that obama wore their products. And presumablly they can put a different billboard up in the space so they probablly haven't wasted the money they paid for the space (which I would guess is the most expensive part of putting up adverts in manhatten)

      --
      note: i'm known as plugwash most places but i screwd up registering that here somehow in the past and now can't register
  15. Yes! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    But only if 'not like' is an option. Fair is fair.

    1. Re:Yes! by bickerdyke · · Score: 1

      There is an option to "not like" something. don't "like" it.

      --
      bickerdyke
  16. That depends on this by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    For pure B2C/B2B eCommerce - yes
    For traditional B2C/B2B eCommerce - maybe
    Everyone else, including all those brick and mortar businesses with facebook pages - No

    Example? Steam vs Amazon.com vs Starbucks Singapore
    PS: They are just liking it to get free Wifi

    1. Re:That depends on this by bickerdyke · · Score: 1

      Why would this be free if it is tied to conditions? It's a COMPENSATION for a service. (pushing like)

      If you get a bag of $ for shooting a commercial, the money is the compensation and not "free money"

      --
      bickerdyke
  17. Catching on by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Facetweet socnet sheep really had no idea what was going on. It was just numbers scrolling by, right? Like the Matrix?

    But now it's so blatant and dumbed down that they realize and freak out. Poor things really thought they were in control. It's a whole new reason not to let them behind the curtain: They'd be blinded ala Plato's cave.

  18. Not if what you "liked" was a private page!!!!! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    But in cases where you willingly and knowingly 'liked' a page, Facebook and Google+ ought to be able to tell that to your friends in advertisements, without being sued for it."

    So if I'm in a private thread on someone's non-public timeline, and I click "like" on some link my friend adds to his private dialogue with me on his timeline, which may be a political link or controversial or make sense only in that particular context, will what I did believing it private cease to be private without my knowledge or permission?

    I don't think the parent understands how privacy really works on facebook. The way that you limit the audience of your comments and likes, is to ONLY comment and "like" things which already have a privacy scope that you approve of. For example if it says "Jeff's Friends" or "Jeff's Friends of Friends" or "Public" etc., you make an assumption prior to commenting or "liking" based on this information.

    Is this implied contract being violated by facebook? Is it????

    1. Re:Not if what you "liked" was a private page!!!!! by rjstanford · · Score: 3, Interesting

      So if I'm in a private thread on someone's non-public timeline, and I click "like" on some link my friend adds to his private dialogue with me on his timeline, which may be a political link or controversial or make sense only in that particular context, will what I did believing it private cease to be private without my knowledge or permission?

      Why would you ever "Like" or "+1" something (in the official FB or Google sense) shared in a private conversation if you didn't want that information to become more public? You're in a conversation already FFS, you can just say "Hey, I agree." Using a social-media platform tool to indicate approval implies that you want that social-media platform tool to take some action - any action - on that click. Its well documented that even the publicly stated purpose of those platforms is to share the information that you give them with your "network."

      WTF else do you expect the platform to do when you click "Like"? Wink slyly and say, "That one's just between the two of us, friend?"

      --
      You're special forces then? That's great! I just love your olympics!
    2. Re:Not if what you "liked" was a private page!!!!! by rhazz · · Score: 1

      Wink slyly and say, "That one's just between the two of us, friend?"

      Why the hell does that have an Australian accent in my head?

    3. Re:Not if what you "liked" was a private page!!!!! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Why would you ever "Like" or "+1" something (in the official FB or Google sense) shared in a private conversation if you didn't want that information to become more public?

      Because in Facebook, "like" really means "I want to see more about this in my feed". It doesn't automatically follow that you want to tell everyone you're doing it.

    4. Re:Not if what you "liked" was a private page!!!!! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Why would you ever "Like" or "+1" something (in the official FB or Google sense) shared in a private conversation if you didn't want that information to become more public?

      Let's put it this way. There are some things I would ONLY click "Like" on in a private context. Your own phrasing of the question presumes that "private conversations" do indeed exist. The "Like" is just facebook's own addition to people's discourse with each other. It's one more reason people might interact via facebook rather than over the phone.

      Or to answer your question more directly, there are times when a conversation is waning, and you simply want to acknowledge whatever it was that your conversation partner just expressed without bothering for a more verbose reply. A quick mouse click on the "Like" gets that done.

      It has * * * NOTHING * WHATSOEVER * * * to do with "wanting that information to become more public" as you so originally put it. And why would you even say that? Do you work for facebook PR team or something?

    5. Re:Not if what you "liked" was a private page!!!!! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      WTF else do you expect the platform to do when you click "Like"? Wink slyly and say, "That one's just between the two of us, friend?"

      Actually yes. That is exactly what I and all of my facebook friends thought it was doing.

    6. Re:Not if what you "liked" was a private page!!!!! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      My wife does it constantly. I see her screen and say, "You liked THAT?" She replies, "It's a private wall, don't worry!"

    7. Re:Not if what you "liked" was a private page!!!!! by rjstanford · · Score: 1

      There's Facebook. Then there's an RSS reader. The sooner that you admit that they're different products, the happier I think you'll be.

      --
      You're special forces then? That's great! I just love your olympics!
    8. Re:Not if what you "liked" was a private page!!!!! by rjstanford · · Score: 1

      Re-read that - clicking "like" on a comment does nothing in the context of this thread. We're talking about officially Like'ing an organization's page on Facebook, since that's the only activity that ever gets reported out as "Anonymous Coward Like's Bob's Burger Hut". Totally different than liking an offhand comment. I originally read this as you talking about liking a page recommended in a conversation, but see how that could be a misinterpretation.

      Either way, don't like something unless you want others to be told that you did. In a Message conversation, the audience is limited to participants. In regular Facebook its limited to your defined Friends.

      --
      You're special forces then? That's great! I just love your olympics!
  19. Still don't understand the lure of "liking" by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Since the day the marketing term "like" was introduced by the corporation in question, I have understood this "liking" to be -- when boiled down to the root -- work. With that in mind, why in the world would a person want to work, for free, for the benefit of a multi-billion dollar corporation? By not "liking" anything, am I missing out on something -- anything -- other than unpaid work?

  20. Re:Many "Likes" are like a cheap "Cash for Comment by Mitreya · · Score: 2

    Therefore, many / most "Likes" are meaningless CfC's. IMO.

    Particularly meaningless without "DisLikes".

    What does 100 "Likes" mean without knowing if there are 10 "DisLikes" or 1000 "DisLikes" that go with it?

  21. Is like the same as advertise? by hawguy · · Score: 1

    I may tell my friends that I like a particular restaurant, but that doesn't mean that I want that restaurant to pay one of my friends to wear my picture around his neck and tell all of the rest of my friends that I like the restaurant.

    1. Re:Is like the same as advertise? by rjstanford · · Score: 1

      And indeed if you post on your friend's wall that you like a restaurant, Facebook won't do a damn thing. If, however, you post a comment on a public site like Yelp, the restaurant may indeed print it out and show it to people. Facebook's taking the middle ground - if you officially tell it that you Like something, it may pass that information on to your friends (and only your friends), and businesses can pay money to increase the frequency of Facebook reminding them of that fact. Nothing more.

      --
      You're special forces then? That's great! I just love your olympics!
  22. PROTIP FFS by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 3, Insightful

    You can't be on social media and still claim to be a privacy advocate. One or the other. No one understands the meanings of these words anymore. Social media is just that: SOCIAL. If you want privacy, then you should probably not be on facebook, you blithering idiot.

    1. Re:PROTIP FFS by Jason+Levine · · Score: 1

      I don't think they are mutually exclusive. There's a difference between volunteering information about yourself and withholding information about yourself. Just because you are on social media, it doesn't mean you tell everyone everything there is to know about you. (Example, on social media I never mention what school district my kids go to.) There's also the situation that, if you give a company some private information that they say will remain private and then they make it public, that's a privacy violation. It doesn't matter if the company is a social media website or a brick-and-mortar store. If a place says that information will only be kept within the company and they don't do so, they should be taken to task for it, not let off the hook because some people are posting "selfies" at home with GPS data in the EXIF.

      --
      My sci-fi novel, Ghost Thief, is now available from Amazon.com.
  23. get a clue by frovingslosh · · Score: 2

    I'm all for more privacy for social networking users

    What part of "social network" does Bennett not understand? If you use these damn "services" then you should expect them to be doing shit like this. I'm much more concerned that almost every site that I visit lately sends traffic to Facebook and lets them track information about me, even though I have never and will never use facebook.

    --
    I'm an American. I love this country and the freedoms that we used to have.
    1. Re:get a clue by ah.clem · · Score: 2

      I'm much more concerned that almost every site that I visit lately sends traffic to Facebook and lets them track information about me, even though I have never and will never use facebook.

      Try Ghostery. I think you will be amazed at how many trackers it blocks (I've found as many as 34 on a single page). Of course, they aggregate the total trackers blocked daily and sell that info, but it's not your data for targeted adverts.

      In my opinion, it's tough to win in the privacy battle, but you can minimize your exposure.

      --
      "Life is not magic." Dr. Ron Weiss - "If we don't play God, who will?" Dr. James Watson
    2. Re:get a clue by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      ok, but it doesnt make it right in all circumstances. If i post something to facebook that says, I hate EA, that should not be considered a tacit endorsement of EA, in the same way as if i go to EA's facebook page and 'like' it. I get it you are the "product" blah blah blah, they own your information, that doesn't give them carte-blanche to take "fuck facebook" and turn it into "i like facebook and am recommending it to all my friends". I mean i agree with you on the other stuff, and if you "like" something you ARE giving an endorsement of that product and you SHOULD expect that they will use this information. But if the standard is you mentioned me so you like me, then whats the point, why not just say because you use facebook you like EA or even better you like whoever we say you like, stuff it into the terms of service and call it a day and avoid the lawsuits altogether.

  24. Hipsters by mwvdlee · · Score: 2

    Facebook is for hipsters.
    All "likes" are sarcastic.

    Seriously though; relabelling the "inform me of changes on this page" button to "like", doesn't mean I actually "like" it. It just means that you're mislabelling your functionality.

    --
    Slashdot social media options: AIM, ICQ, Yahoo, Jabber and Mobile Text. Why no MySpace?
    1. Re:Hipsters by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      A "subscribe" button, separate from "like", would be much better.

    2. Re:Hipsters by bickerdyke · · Score: 1

      Have you proof that that relabeling ever actually happend or are you just IMAGINING that that happend?

      --
      bickerdyke
    3. Re:Hipsters by mwvdlee · · Score: 1

      *sigh*
      I'm quite damn sure that it never actually had a different label.
      It's still mislabelled.

      --
      Slashdot social media options: AIM, ICQ, Yahoo, Jabber and Mobile Text. Why no MySpace?
    4. Re:Hipsters by SeaFox · · Score: 1

      Facebook is for hipsters.

      Ha! I knew Facebook was lame before it was cool to know it was lame, so I never opened a (normal public) account to start with.

  25. I don't like anything. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Problem solved.

  26. Ummmm .... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    I believe it should be illegal to use my name or image to endorse a product without me being explicitly asked, and compensated

    Assuming you are a facebook user, you signed the contract - the EULA - that said Facebook can do this with out having to compensate you.

    If you aren't then, I agree.

  27. "Likes" do not mean 'like' by vux984 · · Score: 1

    "Likes" do not represent something people like. So characterizing it as that in an ad is deceptive.

    People "like" things for any number of reasons; maybe they were initially interested, but then decided the product was an utter piece of shit upon further inspection. Maybe they "liked" it as a joke, or ironically, or because it was stupid or funny or ridiculous in some way, or accidentally.

    To take a "like" out of any sort of context, and then with a serious face say "So and so likes X. You should buy it!" takes a serious lack of appreciation for the real world. If its not illegal it should be.

    Why do you defend it?

    1. Re:"Likes" do not mean 'like' by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      If you broadcast to the world that you like something it seems ridiculous to later complain companies later site your endorsement of their products.

      If you don't like something then don't click the like button. Don't do it as a joke, don't do it ironically, don't like a product until you've researched whether it is a piece of shit.

      If you say you like something as a joke, that's your problem. If you say you like something before you've investigated whether it's any good, that's your problem as well.

      Take responsibility for your actions.

    2. Re:"Likes" do not mean 'like' by vux984 · · Score: 1

      If you broadcast to the world that you like something it...

      Except I didn't. Nobody except facebook thinks clicking 'like' has anything to do with actually LIKING something. You have to click 'like' to post on a page just to ask a question. You have to click 'like' to get updates on a page ... it doesn't mean you like anything. It just means you wanted to know more. Maybe its something you are politically opposed to, and you "liked" the page, so you get notified on updates.

      Take responsibility for your actions.

      Your solution appears to be "take no action" since any action can be misconstrued. Enjoy your basement anonymous coward.

      The rest of us prefer to live in a world where we can do things and not have companies misconstrue that into an endorsement.

    3. Re:"Likes" do not mean 'like' by bickerdyke · · Score: 1

      "Likes" do not represent something people like. So characterizing it as that in an ad is deceptive.

      If hitting "like" might not mean "like", wouldn't that mean that "XY likes Z" might represent something else then "XY likes Z"?

      So you add lots of personal interpretation to the "like" button but don't give the same leeway to other statements?

      --
      bickerdyke
    4. Re:"Likes" do not mean 'like' by vux984 · · Score: 1

      So you add lots of personal interpretation to the "like" button but don't give the same leeway to other statements?

      Context is everything.

      When facebook presents an ad, and says XY likes Z, they give it a specific context that did not exist with the mere fact of the fact that XY clicked like on page Z.

      But there is only one reasonable interpretation for why facebook is showing that ad with that image with that caption, and its not because they want me to think my friend XY accidently clicked like on the page for Z.

  28. Only if they pay for them by mark-t · · Score: 1

    [nt]

  29. So what should "like" mean? by Chemisor · · Score: 1

    If "like" does not mean an endorsement, what does it mean? Why would you "like" anything if not to tell your friends that you did and that you want them to do likewise? To me it is pretty clear that "like" is an explicit endorsement. The argument about what exactly it is I am endorsing concerns the target of the action, not the action itself. I really can not see how anybody could mistake it for "acknowledge" or "bookmark".

    1. Re:So what should "like" mean? by joe_frisch · · Score: 1

      There is no FB option for "acknowledge" or "bookmark" to alert other people that a post is interesting.

      FB is of course free to run their business as they wish, but if they redefine commonly used words as part of their commercial activity, they shouldn't be surprised if people try to sue them for misrepresentation. I'm not a legal expert, so I can't comment on the legal validity of this sort of suit.

    2. Re:So what should "like" mean? by StripedCow · · Score: 1

      If you like a particular commercial, that does not mean that you like the product being advertised.

      --
      If Pandora's box is destined to be opened, *I* want to be the one to open it.
    3. Re:So what should "like" mean? by bickerdyke · · Score: 1

      but if they redefine commonly used words as part of their commercial activity, they shouldn't be surprised if people try to sue them for misrepresentation. I'm not a legal expert, so I can't comment on the legal validity of this sort of suit.

      I'm neither, but I wonder how treating "like" as "like" could seen as "redefing sommonly used words" Could you eloaborate on that?

      a redifinition happens when someone uses "like" as bookmark.

      --
      bickerdyke
    4. Re:So what should "like" mean? by joe_frisch · · Score: 1

      Many people use "like" as a way to bookmark and share pages, just as they use "friend" as a way to give a person (they may not like) access.

      Whether this is misuse by users or misuse by FB is a valid question. To take an extreme case, if the only way to open a browser window in some operating system were to click on a button labeled "I love microsoft", I would consider that a to be user interface that deceptively collects 'I love" clicks. On the other hand if this were just one of a wide number of ways to achieve the same functionality it would be different.

      In any case, I'm not blaming FB, but it seems they have created a situation where people might be tempted to sue.

    5. Re:So what should "like" mean? by bickerdyke · · Score: 1

      Many people use "like" as a way to bookmark and share pages, just as they use "friend" as a way to give a person (they may not like) access.

      Whether this is misuse by users or misuse by FB is a valid question.

      If people use feature A to emulate feature B, it's the users who do the redefining.

      Others may or may not join that redefinition, but you can't force to or blame anyone for not joining doing so or not being aware that others are using some feature in a redefined way.

      To take an extreme case, if the only way to open a browser window in some operating system were to click on a button labeled "I love microsoft", I would consider that a to be user interface that deceptively collects 'I love" clicks. On the other hand if this were just one of a wide number of ways to achieve the same functionality it would be different.

      In any case, I'm not blaming FB, but it seems they have created a situation where people might be tempted to sue.

      People would either think that there is no way to open a web browser and (finally) run to Linux in flocks as it does NOT force them to commit perjury to surf the web.

      So, this boils down to the question why so many people are using fb despite the missing features "bookmark" and "follow without like"?

      --
      bickerdyke
    6. Re:So what should "like" mean? by blackraven14250 · · Score: 1

      Because tons of companies give away free stuff for likes.

  30. The best way to express myself... by iplayfast · · Score: 1

    Just because I like somebody doesn't mean I want to go to bed with them.

  31. Really? by TheCarp · · Score: 1

    I can think of a reason why this doesn't work.... saying that they have "liked" something contains the implicit assumption that they actually like it....that is...they hit like honestly. I can see why that might be a valid assumption if you are ignoring the details but, the simple fact is, facebook doesn't have a dislike button.

    In fact, I personally "liked" Obama's facebook page. Why? Is it because I like him? No. I didn't even vote for him the first time around. I also have "liked" a page by the "Reagan Coalition", is it because I like them? No, not at all.

    In both of these cases, I hit "like" because I wanted to keep tabs on them, and I wanted to discuss/argue with/troll other people who actually do like these things. Facebook has no "I don't really like this but I want to be included in the discussion" button.

    anyone who has read my posts here knows I don't favor any form of gun control at all. I don't even see why its needed. Yet, I "like" one of the groups that discusses gun control...because I want to be part of the discussion! Believe me, not a single member of that group has any illusions that I "like" what they are trying to do.

    So, I agree after a fashion. I would have no issue with this "your friends like..." advertising if there was any reason to actually expect that clicking "like" actually had some meaning that was relevant to the concept it invokes. The simple fact is, this is not true at all.

    --
    "I opened my eyes, and everything went dark again"
    1. Re:Really? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      So you voted for Obama the second time around? That only makes it worse. I could understand people being hoodwinked by the liar the first time he ran but on the second go-around? He was a plain faced liar and everyone knew it.

      He's done as much damage in one term as Bush did in two. I can't wait to see how much worse it gets if he gets even an iota more power, never mind the lemming fanboys he has defending his every abuse.

    2. Re:Really? by TheCarp · · Score: 1

      > So you voted for Obama the second time around?

      I did not say that; if I had said it, it wouldn't be true. However, I can understand why people would have voted for him the first time around.

      Actually, I have never, not once, neither in a federal election nor a local one, ever voted for either a Democrat or Republican candidate; not even for the proverbial "dog catcher"

      --
      "I opened my eyes, and everything went dark again"
  32. Miranda's by gmuslera · · Score: 1

    Are facebook users aware that anything that they say (or like) can and will be used against them, even if they said/liked it before any warning was given?

  33. Public data is public by nurb432 · · Score: 2

    Private data is semi-private. Don't want your name to be associated to something, don't use social media. Remember the services own the content, not you.

    --
    ---- Booth was a patriot ----
    1. Re:Public data is public by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Actually, you still own the content, and if you lock it down, and they disseminate in any manner that goes against your settings, well then, let the lawsuits roll forth.

      I for one believe that the *cloud* should never be used for private information, ever.

      Cloud = NEVER Private.

      Once people realise this, and stop putting private information out there, we'll all be better off - well, except for the NSA that is - they'll actually have to get off their collective 750 million ton asses and do real work.

      Nice - captcha = rebuttal

  34. Depends on what Bank of America wants? by sgt_doom · · Score: 1
  35. Show me the money. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    If Facebook -- or anybody else -- wants to use my image or anything else I do to make money, then I want a piece of the action. And no, just letting me use the site isn't a big enough piece.

    (Sure, slashdot is probably making a tiny amount off of the content I contribute, but in this case giving me access to the site is a big enough piece.)

    1. Re:Show me the money. by bickerdyke · · Score: 1

      If Facebook -- or anybody else -- wants to use my image or anything else I do to make money, then I want a piece of the action.

      There are lots of company pages that offer discounts or other benefits for likes. Go ahead.

      --
      bickerdyke
  36. Turnabout? by Bob9113 · · Score: 1

    But in cases where you willingly and knowingly 'liked' a page, Facebook and Google+ ought to be able to tell that to your friends in advertisements, without being sued for it.

    So if I go to Google and find a query that links to my web site, should I be able to use the Google logo in a commercial saying, "As recommended by Google"? If there's a Facebook page that links to my site, should I be able to use their logo?

    Commercial endorsement rights cost money.

  37. FaceBook Liking does not indicate approval by I'm+just+joshin · · Score: 1

    In order to comment on the wall of the company's page, you need to like it.

    I've liked many pages just so I could tell the company (or politician) how they can best sod off.

    1. Re:FaceBook Liking does not indicate approval by Dthief · · Score: 1

      that'll teach them...I mean...you

      --
      www.RacquetUp.org - Helping Detroit Youth
    2. Re:FaceBook Liking does not indicate approval by bickerdyke · · Score: 1

      In order to comment on the wall of the company's page, you need to like it.

      I've liked many pages just so I could tell the company (or politician) how they can best sod off.

      And in doing so, increasing their like counter.

      I guess the requirement of "like before post" is to keep comments on "how to sod off" from their page. Or at least trick those who still insist on those comments into giving a like in return first.

      --
      bickerdyke
  38. I belong to an antisocial network by new+death+barbie · · Score: 1

    We have a "Dislike" button. It does NOTHING. Because when I choose to share my opinion, IT WON'T FIT ON A FREAKIN' BUTTON.
    I have a wall. It's very tall and very thick, and made of stone. Post on it all you like, if you can get across the moat. Watch out for the archers. They will poke you.
    I'd invite you to join, but IT'S AN ANTISOCIAL NETWORK. DUH.

    --

    It's supposed to be completely automatic, but actually you have to press this button.

  39. The only way to win is not to play by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    I can summarize all that verbiage in one phrase: "The only way to win is not to play." Remember this when you accept something for free (the scariest words in English are - "it's free!"), work for a corporation for free (providing reviews, likes, etc), and so on. You're playing their game by their rules.

  40. To watch your enemy on FB, you have to "like" them by dmomo · · Score: 1

    On Facebook "liking" some entity is the only way to really follow posts made by that thing. So, no. I may want to hear what my enemy has to say. On facebook, to "follow" them, I have to "like" them. It's just a stupid word that poorly describes the functionality.

  41. Piffle by koan · · Score: 1

    Fuck Facebook.

    --
    "If any question why we died, Tell them because our fathers lied."
    1. Re:Piffle by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      You stole my post you... you insensitive clod.

  42. Bennett Haselton by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Interesting

    Does this kid pay /. to have his blog entries posted here?

  43. Likes don't mean anything by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Billions if not trillions of likes have been bought or exchanged, if not clicked to receive a coupon or some other incentive or reward. So no, they are definitely not the same nor in the same ballpark as endorsements. They are 100% meaningless.

    1. Re:Likes don't mean anything by bickerdyke · · Score: 1

      And thousands celebrities have been bought to look into a camera and endorse some stupid product. That doesn't make it any less of an endorsement.

      --
      bickerdyke
  44. Sure it should by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    See title.
    As long as the ability to 'dislike' is also available.

    Honestly, I am surprised how far we have gotten into the 21st century without crowd funded negative publicity campaigns. I think the idea is simple and would be easily understood by the masses. Certain corporate entity screwing you as a consumer? Check to see if someone is running a negative publicity campaign on 'crowdvertisement.com' (-not currently registered at the time of my post) and pledge 10 dollars toward some goal of negative advertising. Then you really are voting with your wallet.

    Ask yourself if there has been times you felt screwed financially by some large corporate entity. How many others are there like you? What recourse currently exists for you as a group? If you could find each other and pool your resources, you could collectively cost the company FAR more than they cost you individually... and maybe even help them change their practices.

    Intelligently crafted negative publicity would be far more cost effective per dollar than voting for the competitor with your wallet . This is because you are potentially helping/teaching/educating others to vote with their wallets.

    -mcw

  45. No "Dislike" Button by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    With no "dislike" button it's clear that FB is a vanity world for attention-whoring women

  46. Facebook is useful. Here is why : by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Facebook is very useful for me, because a person's priorities are revealed
    by whether they use "time sinks" like Facebook.

    I am the head of HR for a Fortune 500. I post anonymously to avoid repercussions
    from some litigious fool who would waste the resources of my company by initiating
    legal action after reading what I wrote.

    If a prospective employee uses Facebook I make sure they are not hired.
    And if an employee begins using Facebook we find another "official" reason to "let them go".
    This is what my bosses want, and they didn't get to be in high level management by making bad
    decisions.

    Facebook is for time-wasters. Companies which have their shit together don't
    want those types on the payroll.

    Whine about it all you want, this is the real world and those with the gold make the rules.

    1. Re:Facebook is useful. Here is why : by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      hate to break it to you, but what I do on my own time has little to do with what I do during my paid time at work...

      by dismissing and ignoring people simply for having a facebook profile you are limiting the quality of candidates to your "fortune 500" company... just because someone uses facebook in their off hours, be it to connect with fiends, (another time-sink. Friends MY GOD you have time for firends?) Family (a HUGE time-sink, what you have kids? that means you need to be there for birthdays graduations and stuff.. yuck) or even as a career networking tool, (networking improving your skillset? no USE your skills until they're obsolete then we'll fire your ass for not staying on top of things)

      Email is another time-waster, memos, coffee, lunch... to banish someone for what they do on their own time... yeah... there's a reason your job satisfaction level is 0.

      get into the 21st century. Either that or add these other "time-wasters" to your reasons to fire people, Watching TV, Listening to the Radio, Playing Sports, Exercising, Cooking, Learning non work related tasks, Reading books, Reading in general, playing computer games, owning a computer, owning a console, having a family, having kids, having a sexual partner, having a hobby. All are things that end up "wasting" more time than facebook does for me. and yes I have a facebook profile. and no I won't ever work for a company who polices what I do on my spare time so don't even bother.

    2. Re:Facebook is useful. Here is why : by hypergreatthing · · Score: 1

      And posting on slashdot during business hours is for?

      Glad we cleared the air about how wasting time is your business.

    3. Re:Facebook is useful. Here is why : by bickerdyke · · Score: 1

      That's a newssite. Something completly different.

      No, I'm not the original anonymous poster and you don't have any clue about my current timezone.

      --
      bickerdyke
  47. Sounds like by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    a bunch of fags are jealous of facebook

    you know when you have billions of dollars, the parasites come out of the dark - all kinds of jealous, dumb, buzzword loving, retarded, "think of the children", "think of my cause which you should give a shit about!" lower than low scum begin to file lawsuits because they literally could never ever invent something themselves or even conceive any original thought. So what do they do? they sue others to make themselves relevant.

    I can only hope the USA and the world evolves into a true technocracy - even with Hitlerish standards. Those who cannot form an original thought and provide something useful to the technological advancement of the world should be put in a fucking gas chamber and killed. Any person who can not form an original thought, and are just parasites, suing companies because they think their cause is important, should be gassed and killed - because they do not provide any advancement to the culture (as facebook has) The people and the state will soon recognize this and hopefully lynchmob anyone gaming the system for a lawyer or self serving payoff.

    *disclaimer I do not use or have a facebook acount

    1. Re:Sounds like by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I can only hope the USA and the world evolves into a true technocracy - even with Hitlerish standards. Those who cannot form an original thought and provide something useful to the technological advancement of the world should be put in a fucking gas chamber and killed.

      I have forwarded your post to the authorities, just in case you might be one of the nutcases who
      decides to act out his fantasies.

  48. Model Release by Jason+Levine · · Score: 1

    let's assume that the company had one of their photographers take the photo so that they owned the copyright, and the only issue is the unfair use of your likeness.

    Yes, they would own the copyright, but using it in any meaningful way would require them to get me to sign a model release form authorizing them to use my image. Of course, Facebook's TOS probably has text along the lines of "you consent to your image being used by any company we partner with for any purpose we decide" to cover the model release case. Just like they likely have text forcing you to grant them a worldwide right to your photos with the option to sell rights to whatever third parties they decide to.

    The decision for the courts would be: Is a simple TOS enough for a model release? What if they use a photo of someone not on Facebook? Say my wife, who is on Facebook, posts a photo of me - not on Facebook - and a company decides to use it for their ads. Obviously, I've never agreed to Facebook's TOS so I didn't "sign the model release." It just seems too risky, legally, for a company to grab a Facebook-posted image and assume that the Facebook TOS covers their rear.

    --
    My sci-fi novel, Ghost Thief, is now available from Amazon.com.
    1. Re:Model Release by hyades1 · · Score: 1

      Wouldn't it be nice if people who wanted to screw Facebook made sure they had such third parties in many of their photos, and a highly carnivorous lawyer on retainer.

      --
      I've calculated my velocity with such exquisite precision that I have no idea where I am.
    2. Re:Model Release by rjstanford · · Score: 1

      Wouldn't it be nice if people who wanted to screw Facebook made sure they had such third parties in many of their photos, and a highly carnivorous lawyer on retainer.

      Those same people who wanted to screw Facebook would then be sued for illicitly (according the terms they have agreed to with FB) posting those photos. In the same way that pasting copyrighted images onto a physical wall without permission wouldn't then somehow make the owner of the wall ultimately liable, even if you were leasing it from them in exchange for data.

      --
      You're special forces then? That's great! I just love your olympics!
  49. So what about G+? by Arker · · Score: 1

    So I was never ever stupid enough to have anything to do with facebook. I feel bad for the people they are screwing, a little, and I do really hope they have success in court and take a big chunk out just on general principles, but I am really not affected here.

    However, I was stupid enough to sign up for gmail once upon a time. And I even uploaded a little picture that was supposedly ONLY to display to people that I have approved on that chat list.

    Fast forward a little, google buys youtube, and gets this G+ itch. So I have a youtube account and the email address given to youtube for recovery was my gmail account. Without a by-your-leave I suddenly find the two accounts have been merged, and this picture is being displayed on youtube, as well as G+ (where I have NEVER created any account or given any permission for the use of my name, likeness, or personal information in any way shape or form!)

    If these suits against facebook are getting traction why not a suit against google? I am sure I am not the only person they have done this too, in fact it seems certain that some of them even live in Europe, where privacy protection laws are a bit stronger.

    This is truly scummy behavior and while it would certainly be great to see either of these corporations hit with a fine big enough to change their behavior, that does not seem very likely. The real solution would be good old fashioned shunning - turn your back on these companies and any others that do this. Too bad our population has been so thoroughly conditioned at this point to feel helpless and bitch about it on facebook instead of closing your account and blocking the bastards at the router.

    --
    =-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-
    Friends don't let friends enable ecmascript.
  50. Take it out of the FB/G+ context... by Todd+Knarr · · Score: 1

    Suppose I say publicly that I like product X and think it's a good buy. I'm not under contract with the manufacturer to do ads for them. They aren't paying me to endorse their product. I haven't had any contact with them at all. Is the manufacturer entitled to go and quote me, using my name and my statements in their advertisements, without getting my agreement to let them do so first? As far as I know, they don't. It has nothing to do with anything I said. It has to do with them simply not having a right to use my likeness and my words for their own commercial gain without having my permission to do so first (this being separate from news reporting and the like where fair-use and similar rights would apply). Simply saying I like their product doesn't constitute an agreement to appear in their advertisements. So why should it be any different in a social network? I still haven't agreed to appear in that company's advertising materials. FB/G+ would be entitled to say I'd "liked"/"+1'd" a page if I did so publicly, but that would be covered under my agreement with them which doesn't extend to other companies.

    I don't see it as any different from any other endorsement of any other product in any other setting. This shouldn't require looking any further than the already-settled law governing when companies can use your endorsement of their product in their marketing material.

    1. Re:Take it out of the FB/G+ context... by Dthief · · Score: 1

      they are "paying" you in free facebook

      --
      www.RacquetUp.org - Helping Detroit Youth
  51. Like =/= like by Dthief · · Score: 1
    there is no dislike option, there is no funny option.

    people dont use the "Like" to mean i like that. people have "Like" 'd people dying or getting injured.

    commenting on something or "Like"-ing it is not the same as endorsing the product, idea, object, etc.

    that being said no one is forced to use facebook, so as long as they are clear about what they do (which they arent) then I think they should be able to use "Likes" in this way. Maybe the best solution is to change "Like" to "Acknowledge"

    --
    www.RacquetUp.org - Helping Detroit Youth
    1. Re:Like =/= like by bickerdyke · · Score: 1

      there is no dislike option, there is no funny option.

      people dont use the "Like" to mean i like that. people have "Like" 'd people dying or getting injured.

      well, people are jerks all the time. And that's why I never "liked" someones death. I don't want to look like one.

      But that's a good example. Let's stick to it for a while, If only for the sake of the argument.

      So, if "liking" someones death means sympathy or grief, what does that tell us about the number of people that liked the news about Bin Ladens death? Is it a like or not? If it can mean both, it means nothing. Why would a meaningless button be there?

      Well... here's the point: Everyone likes to be part of a majority. (c.f. bandwaggon effect in elections) So no matter if you loved or hated Michael Jackson, seeing a million likes for his death will feel like approval to your "like"

      --
      bickerdyke
  52. Leave Facebook by fulldecent · · Score: 1

    I would like to take this opportunity to note that my 2014 New Years resolution was completed successfully by deleting Facebook (after 10 years) in 2013.

    And humbly submit this page reasons why many people do: http://fulldecent.blogspot.com/2013/12/ten-things-you-can-only-do-without.html

    --

    -- I was raised on the command line, bitch

  53. Ah, it's this guy again. by gallondr00nk · · Score: 1

    I don't agree with Mitt Romney that "corporations are people too, my friend," but they do have First Amendment rights

    That means you do agree with him, since you're saying that corporations have constitutional rights - It reads "We the people" not "We the people and acceptable business structures".

    Considering that uploading to FB grants them a transferable and royalty free worldwide licence, the amount of control the end user has over their likeness or any other content they upload is very limited indeed.

    With that in mind, FB can use your content in any way it pleases unless (and perhaps not even then) you delete the content. In the instance of the class action suit, California considered it an endorsement (or would have, if FB didn't settle). Other states or countries might not. What is to stop them expanding the scheme across the entire site in those jurisdictions?

    Is it a commercial endorsement? I would say probably yes. The interesting question under the surface would then be, considering that companies try and persuade users into "liking" on a frequent basis, are they guilty of profiting from an unfairly acquired endorsement?

  54. Terms of Service by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Did anyone bother to read the ToS? There is not much private about these social network sites. If you read what you're getting into you wouldn't go anywhere near the place to begin with. How can someone sue someone else over something they willing agreed to by creating an account on the site? You would have to be irrepressibly stupid, or have the dumbest lawyer(s) on the planet!

  55. My GPS has "favorites" by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    But these are -NOT- my favorite places... most of them are for work for crying out loud!

    Call them bookmarks, call them custom waypoints, call them -anything- but fucking "favorites"

  56. Accidental outing by phorm · · Score: 1

    "if it's true that Facebook has been silently marking users as publicly 'liking' a page because they mentioned the page in a private message"

    So some guy who's a closet "X" mentions a page about "X" in a PM to a friend (whom he trusts). Facebook notes this, and marks him as liking "X" to the whole friends list, including many old-fashioned relatives etc.

    Yeah, sounds like a really good idea.

  57. Re:Many "Likes" are like a cheap "Cash for Comment by bickerdyke · · Score: 1

    wait wait wait...

    scroll up a few posts... someone posted

    But, joking aside, I believe it should be illegal to use my name or image to endorse a product without me being explicitly asked, and compensated.

    so some user was explicitly asked to give a like AND there actually was some form of compensation.

    --
    bickerdyke
  58. Freedom of Expression and Speech by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    The lawsuit was idiotic and infringed on freedom of speech. If you want YOUR product on Facebook just put the damed thing on it. Fricken control freaks, get out of the press!!

  59. True for all values of Truth by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    "People are taking the piss out of you everyday. They butt into your life, take a cheap shot at you and then disappear. They leer at you from tall buildings and make you feel small. They make flippant comments from buses that imply you're not sexy enough and that all the fun is happening somewhere else. They are on TV making your girlfriend feel inadequate. They have access to the most sophisticated technology the world has ever seen and they bully you with it. They are The Advertisers and they are laughing at you. You, however, are forbidden to touch them. Trademarks, intellectual property rights and copyright law mean advertisers can say what they like wherever they like with total impunity. FUCK THAT.

      Any advert in a public space that gives you no choice whether you see it or not is yours. It's yours to take, re-arrange and re-use. You can do whatever you like with it. Asking for permission is like asking to keep a rock someone just threw at your head. You owe the companies nothing. Less than nothing, you especially don't owe then any courtesy. They owe you. They have re-arranged the world to put themselves in front of you. They never asked for your permission, don't even start asking for theirs."
    -- Banksy

  60. Re: by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    The only way to win this game is to not play. If you've already got a Facebook account then you've already lost.

  61. +1 insightful by hbo · · Score: 1

    Facebook does what it does. Just say no to liking commercial products.

    --

    "Even if you are on the right track, you'll get run over if you just sit there" - Will Rogers

  62. No, They Misinterpret Likes Intentionally by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    A page on facebook shares a particular piece of content. A user then likes that particular piece of content. Facebook then associates that user as "liking" the page whenever that page pays for a sponsored advertisement.

    It's simply sleazy. I hope facebook loses.

    Aside from that, when I tell someone I like something, I appreciate it if they can avoid telling *everyone* they see that I like that thing, whatever it is.

    Facebook is going to continue to try to force revenue to justify their absurd valuation. Users will stick around, but it's not going to be some magic playground for advertisers, where users stare at ads adoringly, clicking on them, all day long.