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Stormy Alien Atmospheres May Spark Seeds of Life
astroengine writes "In research presented at the Meeting of the Royal Astronomical Society in London on Friday, astronomers discussed the dusty, stormy atmospheres of exoplanets and brown dwarfs and how they could be hothouses for the formation of prebiotic molecules. These are organic molecules that are known to form the building blocks for life as we know it. 'The atmospheres around exoplanets and brown dwarfs form exotic clouds that, instead of being composed of water droplets, are made of dust particles made of minerals,' said astronomer Craig Stark, of the University of St. Andrews, Scotland. The idea is that lightning storms generate copious amounts of highly charged ions and electrons, which then get stuck to dust particles, using them as miniature prebiotic chemistry factories. Of particular interest is the formation of formaldehyde, ammonia, hydrogen cyanide and the amino acid glycine, all of which underpin Earth's biosphere."
Ash: Well, as I said, I'm still... collating, actually, but uh, I have confirmed that he's got an outer layer of protein polysaccharides. Has a funny habit of shedding his cells and replacing them with polarized silicon, which gives him a prolonged resistance to adverse environmental conditions. Is that enough?
"No matter where you go, there you are." -- Buckaroo Banzai
Our planet is a data point of one, from which useful questions can be raised like: Why not elsewhere? The fact that Venus and Mars aren't teeming with life tells us things about where life cannot arise. (Or at least hasn't in the past few billion years)
They have to keep releasing these type of wildly speculative stories to keep interest up in science and technology. Because children have the right to dream fantastic dreams of the future and giving them meaningful goals and quests to set them upon is a duty of the current generation. Plus it's fantastically more productive than building hype about what the latest pop-star wore and whose baby she's carrying.
And yeah, reminding people about how cool science is really does help focus them on what's important and keep the research grant taps from shriveling up into nothing.
Nothing more, nothing less.
My question though is at what point those molecules become alive?
Abiogenisis is just chemistry, the point where it becomes alive depends on your definition of "alive".
And did you exchange a walk on part in the war for a lead role in a cage? - Pink Floyd.
My question though is at what point those molecules become alive?
When they bump into each other and form something that reproduces itself. Abiogenesis. After that happens evolution kicks in and they're on the course towards launching rockets towards Earth and killing us all.
When do they start reproducing
Good question. Once you get the primordial soup, they bump around randomly until they form things of interest. Cell membranes are easy. Lipids naturally cling to each other and make little bubbles. There's a tough call about which part of the next process came first and how they made the other half: Proteins or nucleic acids? They kind of make each other. Like I said, this is a good question.
or even get the will/understanding the need to reproduce/split to survive?
I don't think that bacteria particularly have/need any amount of willpower or understanding to reproduce, split, and/or survive. They just need to do it. We personify these things a lot as a teaching aide, like saying the river water WANTS to flow to the sea, but they're just dumb cells.
How does that transformation occur that takes this energy from lightning or whatever and converts it to life?
Oh, that's easy: the energy from lightning converts some common chemicals into some other chemicals. Specifically, methane (CH4), ammonia (NH3), water (H2O), hydrogen sulfide (H2S), carbon dioxide (CO2) or carbon monoxide (CO), and phosphate (PO43-) get electrocuted and can turn into, among other things, amino acids. These chemicals are the basic building blocks of life and the idea is that if you bump them together enough that they'll form into something that reproduces. That's the definition of life.
Well I believe the idea would be that Shannon and his basic work on information theory made inroads to the study of complexity. And the common and flawed argument that the anti-science crowd throws about is that various parts of biology, or in this case the most basic forms of life, are irreducibly complex. And that it's SOOOOO rare of a chance that these amino acids and whatnot would randomly bump into each other to form a self-reproducing molecule that's it's an absurd theory.
So it's important to understand what the term "complex" means in a technical sense and how complex systems can arise from simpler things.
You watchin' boy?
Stormy climates have to be caused by humans. Driving around in SUVs. Otherwise the atmosphere would be calm and stable and nothing would ever change.
Have gnu, will travel.
Well maybe this is my chance to rescue someone! To disabuse them of the notion that Buddhism offers the solution to the existential crisis that is life. For samsara does not only mean the endless cycle of rebirth but is equivalent to the endless cycle of suffering - for birth indeed in and of itself is considered suffering in Buddhist terms. An endless cycle of birth (and thus suffering), with the only way out being to stop being born - to stop rebirth in its tracks and to no longer exist in this world. Truly the solution would be suicide if only that option didn't lead one to getting reborn again.
Yet is this quite satisfying? Is any form of existence truly suffering? I say not. I say life is intrinsically pleasant and enjoyable, and it is only the rudimentary animal self blown out of all proportion that leads us to think it's all pain and suffering. Drop this notion, contemplate what it truly means to be alive - and one can find a peaceful ambiance all about, delightful in and of its very self. This truly is the answer to the problem of humanity's suffering. Follow it to its end and one finds Ultimate Fulfillment - here and now, not as a result of a hoary altered state of consciousness which deludes one into thinking that one doesn't really exist - for one does, albeit as a flesh and blood body only.