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What Makes a Genius?

Hugh Pickens DOT Com writes "Eric Barker writes at TheWeek that while high intelligence has its place, a large-scale study of more than three hundred creative high achievers including Leonardo da Vinci, Galileo, Beethoven, and Rembrandt has found that curiosity, passion, hard work, and persistence bordering on obsession are the hallmarks of genius. 'Successful creative people tend to have two things in abundance, curiosity and drive. They are absolutely fascinated by their subject, and while others may be more brilliant, their sheer desire for accomplishment is the decisive factor,' writes Tom Butler-Bowdon. It's not about formal education. 'The most eminent creators were those who had received a moderate amount of education, equal to about the middle of college. Less education than that — or more — corresponded to reduced eminence for creativity,' says Geoffrey Colvin. Those interested in the 10,000-hour theory of deliberate practice won't be surprised that the vast majority of them are workaholics. 'Sooner or later,' writes V. S. Pritchett, 'the great men turn out to be all alike. They never stop working. They never lose a minute. It is very depressing.' Howard Gardner, who studied geniuses like Picasso, Freud, and Stravinsky, found a similar pattern of analyzing, testing, and feedback used by all of them: 'Creative individuals spend a considerable amount of time reflecting on what they are trying to accomplish, whether or not they are achieving success (and, if not, what they might do differently).' Finally, genius means sacrifice. 'My study reveals that, in one way or another, each of the creators became embedded in some kind of a bargain, deal, or Faustian arrangement, executed as a means of ensuring the preservation of his or her unusual gifts. In general, the creators were so caught up in the pursuit of their work mission that they sacrificed all, especially the possibility of a rounded personal existence,' says Gardner."

190 comments

  1. So.... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Thats why im so crappy in school huh, Im not allowed to be creative

    1. Re:So.... by russotto · · Score: 5, Funny

      No, some people are just dumb.

    2. Re:So.... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      No, most people are just lazy

  2. NFL coaches work obsessively, too but... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    "There are no geniuses in the National Football League. A genius is someone like Norman Einstein."

    - ESPN studio analyst Joe Thiesmann

    1. Re:NFL coaches work obsessively, too but... by istartedi · · Score: 1

      That must be Albert's younger brother who never bothered with physics. He just said, "Yes, that Einstein" in bars to get women. Who's the genius now, eh?

      --
      For all intensive purposes, "whom" is no longer a word. That begs the question, "who cares"?
  3. Who are the real producers? by Rinikusu · · Score: 4, Insightful

    Invariably, we also see throughout history that these laser focused artists and creators are preyed upon by the vultures. The swarming businessmen, promotors, managers, who give their charges "the best they can" (i.e. a fraction of their actual value) whilst proclaiming to the world that they themselves are the true producers and behind closed doors they opine how if only they could get that last fraction of a few pennies from "those leeches, those damned artists."

    --
    If you were me, you'd be good lookin'. - six string samurai
    1. Re:Who are the real producers? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      So this blanket statement w/ no examples justifies ignoring copyright while file sharing, right.

    2. Re:Who are the real producers? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Invariably, we also see throughout history that these laser focused artists and creators are preyed upon by the vultures. The swarming businessmen, promotors, managers, who give their charges "the best they can" (i.e. a fraction of their actual value) whilst proclaiming to the world that they themselves are the true producers and behind closed doors they opine how if only they could get that last fraction of a few pennies from "those leeches, those damned artists."

      Then Atlas Shrugged.

    3. Re:Who are the real producers? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      George Westinghouse and Tesla is one of the most egregious examples.

      Or look at what happened to the music group Stray Cats.

      The business people justify it with they signed on the dotted line - which is legally correct - but is it ethical?

      And as far as music is concerned, it's all cookie cutter shit now.

      Indy bands? I haven' heard a decent indy band in decades. Most of the good I,IV,V/A,B,A,B,C,A,B music has been written, already. Yep, I REALLY hope I have to eat my words but for the most part, the art is gone from rock/blues/pop music.

    4. Re:Who are the real producers? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      The Stray Cats? The IMMORTAL Stray Cats? I actually remember them, they were a gimmicky retro band that put together a few hits but then the audience moved on, because if they want to hear '50s music they can go back to the real thing.

      What about the Beatles, Rolling Stones, Led Zeppelin, Springsteen, etc etc (that people actually pirate, not Stray Cats) and how they were raped and pillaged by their producers? Oh, I guess they managed to make out all right.

      "Insightful" my butt. The mods on this site are beyond incompetent.

    5. Re:Who are the real producers? by Trepidity · · Score: 3, Insightful

      Atlas Shrugged is interesting because it imagines the opposite scenario: all the businessmen, vice presidents, shareholders, owners of capital, management, etc., decide to check out and head off to form their own town, without bringing any workers with them. The town nonetheless prospers, despite a lack of even basic staff like garbage pickup, because a bunch of great technology that does all the work was invented at just the right moment. So in Galt's Gulch, wondrous machines do everything and the management class lives prosperously and happily ever after, since they no longer are stuck paying workers (the wondrous inventions don't demand a paycheck).

    6. Re:Who are the real producers? by m00sh · · Score: 1

      Invariably, we also see throughout history that these laser focused artists and creators are preyed upon by the vultures. The swarming businessmen, promotors, managers, who give their charges "the best they can" (i.e. a fraction of their actual value) whilst proclaiming to the world that they themselves are the true producers and behind closed doors they opine how if only they could get that last fraction of a few pennies from "those leeches, those damned artists."

      Those "vultures" are as important to success as anything. Have you ever tried promoting something? It is a very complicated system and very hard to do. I know many good bands have shriveled and died because they couldn't find the right manager or promoter. Many good writers give up because they never get a chance to write the things they want.

      Geniuses are not a product of solitary endeavors. They require support from hundreds of people.

      Actually reminds of the old TV series called "The Fall Guy" about a stuntman. Had some funny quotes:

      "'Cause I'm the unknown stuntman that made Redford such a star."

      "But the hardest thing I ever do
      Is watch my leadin' ladies
      Kiss some other guy while I'm bandagin' my knee.

      While we call actors geniuses, we completely forget the thousands of support staff that allows him or her to get such attention for such a skill.

      You can also argue that all those geniuses in the time of Newton etc had to be aristocrats otherwise it was a lifetime of manual labor in the fields. But, the manual laborers were part of a society that enabled him to spend all his time on physics and become a genius.

    7. Re:Who are the real producers? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      It also relies on a machine that breaks entropy, so you can see how realistic that scenario is.

    8. Re:Who are the real producers? by ultranova · · Score: 3, Interesting

      So basically, Atlas Shrugged is wish fulfilment for the rich. But I guess it accurately sums up Objectivism.

      --

      Forget magic. Any technology distinguishable from divine power is insufficiently advanced.

    9. Re:Who are the real producers? by terryk29 · · Score: 2

      It that synopsis based on your reading of the book? IIUC from reading the book it wasn't the owners-as-owners but owners-as-doers (i.e. industrialists who were central to their business' success) who formed the new town, and not because they didn't want to pay workers, but because they were fed up with the contempt their society and government had for their accomplishments. IIRC one of them became a small cattle rancher in the new town.

      The "wondrous machine" was a magic BS energy invention that was (a) an example of a "good for all" technology developed by one of these people (Galt himself, actually) that the system probably wasn't going to allow him to market, and (b) a plot device that allowed the new town to deploy a sci-fi BS-energy shield to hide from the outside world.

      (Sigh... not defending Rand's philisophy here, just my reading of the book... Oh yeah, I can poke huge holes in Galt's Gulch, not including the magic energy supply.)

    10. Re:Who are the real producers? by volmtech · · Score: 1

      You read the entire book? John Galt worked in a factory. He was happy getting what he thought was a fair wage. Then the factory went communist, you know, from each his ability. Galt was smart and worked hard. The guy who basically just showed up but had a sickly wife and ten kids got much more pay because he "needed" it. So, should John have continued working his butt off so others could get what they needed or should he just take it easy because he would get what he needed. Of course, who decides "need"?

    11. Re:Who are the real producers? by gzuckier · · Score: 1

      like hitchhikers guide, where the planet sends all its middle managers, marketers, etc. to the "new planet we're going to move to" ahead of everybody else to prepare things, then somehow everybody else never actually leaves the first planet.....

      --
      Star Trek transporters are just 3d printers.
    12. Re:Who are the real producers? by pupsocket · · Score: 1

      Actually, the hyper-focus descriptor is bogus.

      Isaac Newton took off lots of time to be Chancellor of Exchequer. It was a hard job. He had to hang people for counterfeiting and all.
      Vladimir Nabokov was Russian lepidopterist who happened to be English-language writer. Or was it the other way around?
      Which was Benjamin Franklin's hobby -- science, publishing, or statecraft?
      And Thomas Jefferson? Architecture or political philosophy or revolution?
      Omar Khayyam? Administration? Poetry? Astronomy?

      The kind of success-monitoring monomaniac described in the article fits someone like P T. Barnum, one of history's greatest show promoters.

      So if hyperfocus is the model of true genius, then all the artists ought to be grateful to be swept into the true genius of such types.

  4. Total letdown by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Funny

    "The great men turn out to be all alike." Did you forget that not only men are reading your site? - A great woman

    1. Re:Total letdown by russotto · · Score: 3, Informative

      Did you forget that not only men are reading your site? - A great woman

      Perhaps Pritchett's generalization was intended to apply specifically to men, and this was a trap women were less likely to fall into. I don't know, I haven't read the essay. You also might also be interested in some work by two men working out of Cornell, Mr. Dunning and Mr. Kruger.

    2. Re:Total letdown by RobertLTux · · Score: 2

      and don't forget the legion of "minions" and ladies that made life bearable for said genius.

      You may be doing G$ work in chemistry but if you don't have somebody making sure your test tubes are clean and such

      YOU ARE FRACKED.

      Also don't forget that GRACE HOPPER was the one that decided to show the world how long a Nanosecond was (and could strangle a suck up man with her Microsecond).

      --
      Any person using FTFY or editing my postings agrees to a US$50.00 charge
    3. Re:Total letdown by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      Most of the people annointed as geniuses in Western culture have been men, perhaps because of opportunity and social expectations, but Gardner's thesis seems to apply to at least one woman too.

    4. Re:Total letdown by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      "There are no great women" because women were not allowed to be great.

    5. Re:Total letdown by TomGreenhaw · · Score: 5, Insightful

      Marie Curie not a great? Two Nobel prizes in different fields - even Einstein cannot claim that. Only one other has achieved that (Linus Pauling).

      --
      Greed is the root of all evil.
    6. Re:Total letdown by cold+fjord · · Score: 4, Informative

      There is no doubt that women have made many important contributions to science. One may argue this one or that is or isn't a genius, but there is little doubt that science would be poorer without their contribution.

      Madame Wu and the backward universe
      Marie Curie - Biographical

      Ten Historic Female Scientists You Should Know
      Pioneering Women in Computing Technology
      The 50 Most Important Women in Science

      --
      much of left-wing thought is a kind of playing with fire by people who don't even know that fire is hot - George Orwell
    7. Re:Total letdown by Hognoxious · · Score: 1

      Also don't forget that GRACE HOPPER was the one that decided to show the world how long a Nanosecond was

      But she did invent that programming language (I will not utter it here) that wears your fingers out.

      Probably, you know, hormones.

      --
      Confucius say, "Find worm in apple - bad. Find half a worm - worse."
    8. Re:Total letdown by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Marie Curie not a great? Two Nobel prizes in different fields - even Einstein cannot claim that. Only one other has achieved that (Linus Pauling).

      And she was killed by her own x ray machines that leaked Radiation. Not too bright.

    9. Re:Total letdown by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      As the study said, what makes the genius is the mount of effort spent in the endeavor. Women in general have other things they value more, like having a family so in my experience they burn out quickly and leave the field before becoming true geniuses. And this in an environment where they are in equal footing with men, historically their role in society range from portable entertainment/procreation devices to indentured servants.

      So, your little lists are mostly names from the 20 century and they have some obscure contributions to science, certainly not comparable with the male contributions in the same fields.

      If you ask about historical women contribution in science, there are only three names that will pop up consistently: Hypatia of Alexandria, Ada Lovelace and Marie Curie. And thats not only one factor considered in the article, if you take in account other fields, their presence becomes even more scarce. Where are the female equivalence to Socrates? Beethoven? Michelangelo? Gaudi?

    10. Re:Total letdown by Alomex · · Score: 1

      Before birth control they couldn't easily dedicate themselves to art or science. Today we have Annie Lebovitz, Carling O'Keefe, Nina Simone, Lisa Randall, Shaffi Goldwasser, Nancy Lynch, Maryam Mirzakhani, Athene Donald, Nina Simone, Madona, and on and on. The list keeps growing by the minute in all fields of art and science, popular culture and high-brow.

    11. Re:Total letdown by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Her husband was the brains, she was just a glowing face.

    12. Re:Total letdown by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      There is no doubt that women have made many important contributions to science.

      Yes there is doubt, just read the comments. Such doubt can not be stated in public due to the groupthink of current mainstream popular opinion which has been fueled by endless propaganda. That is the state of freedom in a civilization that allows women to vote.

    13. Re:Total letdown by cold+fjord · · Score: 1, Troll

      Actually, no, there isn't reasonable doubt about the contributions of women to science. Now if you want to make a different argument, one about the impact of political correctness, or various strains of "progressive" or feminist ideology and the negative impact to various aspects of society, you are on more solid ground. It appears that American, and indeed Western society, is bound and determined to push certain bad ideas until they are enacted policies, which will be setting the stage for future highly regrettable consequences.

      --
      much of left-wing thought is a kind of playing with fire by people who don't even know that fire is hot - George Orwell
    14. Re:Total letdown by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      That's a naive way to judge the output of someone's success. Greatness and safety are not the same thing.

    15. Re:Total letdown by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      "The great men turn out to be all alike." Did you forget that not only men are reading your site? - A great woman

      What, that woman was an orangutan?

    16. Re:Total letdown by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 3, Funny

      You forgot Nina Simone.

    17. Re:Total letdown by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Women are also men. It's in the original compound, after all.

    18. Re: Total Letdown by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      As a man who has actually reproduced and has daughters, I have to say that my daughters are so bright they sometimes scare me. I have also worked with extremely bright women. ( many smarter than me). This does not scare me, it makes my job easier. Despite what you may have been told, intelligence does not emanate from testicles.

    19. Re:Total letdown by TomGreenhaw · · Score: 1

      LOL, read about her history. She was a genius.

      --
      Greed is the root of all evil.
    20. Re:Total letdown by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      It takes a substantial amount of ego to become a genius. And quite frankly,most women just aren't willing to be ostracized the way that most geniuses are. It's incredibly hard dealing with people that are too lazy to study up on things and deal with them without becoming a condescending jackass. Even when you are being nice, it takes a ton of restraint not to point out to people that they're lazy and stupid, otherwise whatever it is would actually be rather obvious.

      It's a really tough balancing act between being arrogant and egotistical enough to believe that whatever "impossible" thing could be done and humble enough to play well with others. Mostly it would be better if people just realized that being a genius is going to lead to one being somewhat socially awkward.

      It's nice to see Sheldon and Sherlock on TV these days, because I can at least relate to them.

    21. Re:Total letdown by TomGreenhaw · · Score: 4, Informative

      OK, first of all, her work was not with x rays, it was with radioactive elements. Second the radiation wasn't leaked - they willingly and foolishly exposed themselves to it. She was a physicist and chemist - the biological science to understand the dangers had not yet been done. You have to remember her work was done more than a hundred years ago. Radiation was invisible to them and in their day equivalent to magic. The dangers of radiation were poorly understood even many decades after her death. To put her achievements into perspective, it would be like someone today providing a full verifiable explanation of dark matter and dark energy with working practical applications. She laid the foundations of some of the most terrifying (nuclear weapons) and most majestic (voyager spacecraft powered by nuclear energy) achievements man had accomplished in the 20th century.

      She was well educated, even at an early age by her father. This is the critical difference between modern times and the renaissance. Then, women were rarely offered opportunity and education. Now it is available for anybody who wants to do the work. Its obvious that genius has little to do with gender.

      I'm not suggesting that she was the greatest genius of all time, but to say that there are no great women is an insult to her legacy and half the human race.

      --
      Greed is the root of all evil.
    22. Re:Total letdown by LongearedBat · · Score: 1

      Women are men, with wombs. In the past (1000+ years ago) the word "man" was a gender neutral word simply meaning "human being".

      Although, here's a question... When "man" stopped being gender neutral, did female humans stop being men? ;)

    23. Re:Total letdown by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Prizes are not a measure of genius. In fact personalities of many geniuses probably repelled their chances of winning or even accepting prizes.

      Grigori Perelman and Nikolai Tesla are two examples of that.

      They also did not hunt for fame and glory - an external motivator, but were very passionate about their work and field - an internal motivator.

    24. Re:Total letdown by gzuckier · · Score: 1

      her husband was run over by a damn horse and carriage. easier to see that coming that gamma radiation.

      --
      Star Trek transporters are just 3d printers.
    25. Re:Total letdown by gzuckier · · Score: 1

      indeed it is. the stuff about the floating/flying university; could have been taken from polish history in the 70s.

      --
      Star Trek transporters are just 3d printers.
    26. Re:Total letdown by gzuckier · · Score: 1

      women are not capable of production

      flunked biology, too, didya?

      --
      Star Trek transporters are just 3d printers.
    27. Re:Total letdown by gzuckier · · Score: 1

      "woman, no that's sexist, it should be woperson. no that's sexist too, should be woperdaughter. so, all you mean and woperdaughters out there in tvland..." - Barth Gimble, Fernwood Tonight

      --
      Star Trek transporters are just 3d printers.
    28. Re:Total letdown by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      "Not too bright?"

      Wow. I guess she should have invented remote manipulators on the off chance that a rock she dug up would kill her just from being in her pocket, when that had never happened before.

  5. All it takes to be a genius ... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Is a bar to stand behind.

  6. Magnus Carlsen: follows his own path by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Hear one genius's recipe for success - doing (only) he wants. Very interesting and enjoyable interview with World Chess Champion Magnus Carlsen:
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZBnSU-LX1ss

  7. It seemSlashdot == Hugh Pickens DOT Com These Days by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    That is all.

  8. Here is an excellent example... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0
  9. According to Richard Fenyman by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Stephen Hawking is a genius.
    His thinking outside the box caused a lot of others in the field to feel inadequate.
    Why he hasn't got a Nobel Prize is beyond me. He is up there alongside people like Rutherford, Faraday and Newton.

    1. Re:According to Richard Fenyman by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      You don't get a Nobel Prize for being smart. You get it for a very specific experiment or discovery.

    2. Re:According to Richard Fenyman by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Are you trying to say that Hawking hasn't discovered anything? He has and not just one thing.
      May I suggest you read 'Surely You're Joking Mr Fenyman' and then make your own mind up.

    3. Re: According to Richard Fenyman by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Like Obama

    4. Re:According to Richard Fenyman by mrbester · · Score: 5, Interesting

      Professor Hawking has better than a Nobel prize (given out all the time). He holds the Lucasian chair of mathematics, as Newton did. *That's* the real prize.

      --
      "Wait. Something's happening. It's opening up! My God, it's full of apricots!"
    5. Re: According to Richard Fenyman by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      When did Feynman even mention Hawking in Surely You're Joking? I don't remember that part at all, and it's my favorite book.

    6. Re:According to Richard Fenyman by AthanasiusKircher · · Score: 2

      He holds the Lucasian chair of mathematics, as Newton did. *That's* the real prize.

      Slight correction -- he held the Lucasian chair, but he retired in 2009. The current Lucasian professor at Cambridge is Michael Green.

    7. Re:According to Richard Fenyman by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Funny

      He holds the Lucasian chair of mathematics, as Newton did. *That's* the real prize.

      Slight correction -- he held the Lucasian chair, but he retired in 2009. The current Lucasian professor at Cambridge is Michael Green.

      Good! He wasn't using it anyway. Always insisting on using his own chair.

  10. Don't forget privilege, even if not financial... by RandomUsername99 · · Score: 5, Interesting

    Things are changing, but from a historical perspective, this cannot be ignored.

    "The fact of the matter is that there have been no supremely great women artists, as far as we know, although there have been many interesting and very good ones who remain insufficiently investigated or appreciated; nor have there been any great Lithuanian jazz pianists, nor Eskimo tennis players, no matter how much we might wish there had been. That this should be the case is regrettable, but no amount of manipulating the historical or critical evidence will alter the situation; nor will accusations of male-chauvinist distortion of history. There are no women equivalents for Michelangelo or Rembrandt, Delacroix or Cezanne, Picasso or Matisse, or even, in very recent times, for de Kooning or Warhol, any more than there are black American equivalents for the same. "

    From a brilliant essay on the matter:
    http://www.miracosta.edu/home/gfloren/nochlin.htm

  11. Working hard by jones_supa · · Score: 1, Interesting

    What drives the smart guys to keep focused and interested working for a long time on hard problems? After a hour of intensive STEM stuff I already feel quite exhausted and need a good break.

    1. Re:Working hard by Z00L00K · · Score: 3, Interesting

      The difference between a genius and a mad man is thin, but obsession with a problem is what both "suffers" from.

      Another thing that's different is to work hard on a problem, then sleep on it and then approach the problem again from a new angle. The brain will sort out a lot of stuff while you are sleeping.

      Trying too hard on a problem is often ineffective. Sometimes it helps to take a walk.

      All this is what also makes many geniuses seem eccentric - they do stuff the way that suits them best, not by following the beaten path.

      --
      If builders built buildings the way programmers wrote programs, then the first woodpecker would destroy civilization.
    2. Re:Working hard by doctor+woot · · Score: 5, Interesting

      I'm not claiming to be a genius, but one thing I noticed early on when deciding to take on STEM is that unlike art (which I had pursued previously), where an understanding of the history, techniques that were developed, and cultural perception of art were very helpful in developing a more acute understanding of the art in question, studying these things wasn't necessary, whereas in science and math the rigor is (usually) completely necessary.

      When you talk to aspiring young scientists, generally you hear a fondness for lasers, space travel, disease research, etc, but almost none for finding the derivative of a function or the like. Because people see the space lasers as the carrot and the intense math as the stick, they tend to get pretty exhausted after a fair amount of work. But in my experience, developing an appreciation for the math itself led me to view science as more of an art form than merely labor. I suspect fostering a greater appreciation of math and logic in children, as well as diminishing the cultural perception of math as a difficult and troubling affair would lead to an easier time for students who can both accept and appreciate the level of math they commit to.

    3. Re:Working hard by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Amen brother.....

      You nailed it.

    4. Re:Working hard by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Speaking as a "smart guy"(feel free to disagree) that's like asking "What drives race horses to run so quickly?".

      "Smart guys" aren't united by some uniform motivation. They are each uniquely motivated as individuals. So much so and to such an extreme in their specialties that they have been elected as pretty smart dudes in the court of public opinion.

      In my case, I don't have any Freudian obsessions lurking beneath my motivations. Just narcissistic rage. ;)

    5. Re:Working hard by nayrbn · · Score: 1

      Mod mistake, commenting to fix.

    6. Re:Working hard by ulatekh · · Score: 1

      What drives the smart guys to keep focused and interested working for a long time on hard problems? After a hour of intensive STEM stuff I already feel quite exhausted and need a good break.

      Me too. My secret...recreational levels of caffeine. God bless the person that invented chocolate-covered coffee beans.

      --
      "Once we've identified and embraced our sickness, we'll have strength...and that's when we get dangerous." - John Waters
    7. Re:Working hard by twosat · · Score: 1

      Men of lofty genius are most active when they are doing the least work. - Leonardo da Vinci

    8. Re:Working hard by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      A majority of teachers are unable to start with a simple natural situation and then proceed to abstraction. For example, ask a student what are the most important things about birds that can be used for human transportation – weight, take of and landing and fuel, shape and size. Then draw a simple drawing and then proceed to add more data for each part. Ask them how can they integrate all these facts. Geometry, calculus, aerodynamics, fuel storage and safety, air turbulence and its effects on the object etc., slowly will tell them that they need to have an abstract mathematical model to design an airplane. What materials to be used will come from material science, how to make the plane will come from manufacturing and so on. But if you start with abstract concepts without relation to any thing to associate with your real life example, people get confused, hate the subject and move on to work at $7.50 minimum wage. We don’t tell the students that we live in a very complex world, lack of knowledge in any one field will hurt us in some way. You may not be auto mechanic, but oil change, fueling, changing air filter, checking tire pressure etc., are part of your life if you have a car, even if you are an artist. If you don't know something about health care, hospitals and health insurance companies will rip you off; no financial knowledge, you loose your investment, no knowledge about real estate, you end up with a house with toxic fumes and so on. To make it simple, we have to have some basic understanding of humanities, social sciences, mathematics, sciences etc., irrespective of how we want to live.Both schools and politicans fail us all.

    9. Re:Working hard by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      You nailed it. The subconscious mind is very powerful and your mind absolutely keeps crunching problems whether you're aware of it or not. Sometimes when I'm stuck on a problem, I will remove myself from the environment and do something completely different - and this is when I tend to solve the idea, seemingly coming to me out of nowhere.

    10. Re:Working hard by captainlavender · · Score: 1

      I sort of buy that STEM fields are less modular than art (although even as a math major, the various specialties and areas to pursue once you're an upperclassman felt more sandboxy than train tracky). But what I really have to agree with you on is the fear and stigma surrounding math. I've taught a lot of the subject, and nearly every students comes in saying "I just don't get math" "I'm not a numbers person" "I don't see what it has to do with the real world" (a valid objection, but usually an expression of learning anxiety) or "fractions are too complicated, I never got them". Even with our miserable school system, I think we'd be further ahead in research and tech than we are without this widespread fear. But don't let's just congratulate ourselves, nerds -- there are things in your own life you're not learning because they're intimidating, too. For me they're mostly physical -- riding a bike, driving a car, getting handy with tools -- because that's the kind of learning I find really difficult, and so it's easier to say "someone else knows how, so they can do it". My perfect example is my parents. My dad used to make fun of my mom for being too scared to learn to operate our remotes (receiver, tv, DVD player and cable box -- my dad's a gadget person). Until one day, I found out that he never learned to work our washing machine, which is like an order of magnitude easier, so I told my mom to respond with that every times he makes fun of her for the remote thing. The idea of something being intimidating to learn is enough to dissuade my dad (a very smart, accomplished guy) from even TRYING to learn to wash his clothes, because if he had tried, he'd have done it, because it's easy as crap. Even with less intimidating stuff I still remind myself of the learning-expectation curve: when we first begin something, we think it will be much easier than it is; once we really get into it, we think it will be much harder and take forever and ugh, and then a little bit later we see that it's not that bad, and revise our estimate to somewhere in between those extremes, which is more accurate anyway. So go forth and learn something scary! I try to.

    11. Re:Working hard by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Me too. My secret...recreational levels of caffeine. God bless the person that invented chocolate-covered coffee beans.

      THOSE. THINGS. ARE. FANTASTIC!!!

    12. Re:Working hard by gzuckier · · Score: 1

      the smartest guys i knew (all in academic science, just because that's where i met them) would carry around in their heads lists of all the problems they hadn't solved, and every once in a while they would figure one out and cross it off the list.
      i don't think most people do that quite so explicitly and obsessively.

      --
      Star Trek transporters are just 3d printers.
    13. Re:Working hard by lucien86 · · Score: 1

      Agree absolutely. I am this type of genius and sometimes one of the best ways of solving a really hard problem is to abandon it for a while and go and do something else.

      Actually it isn't so much that geniuses are super intelligent, its a million and one things but it all centres around luck. Actually no its that most people especially 'intelligent' people are actually as dumb as telegraph poles when it comes to thinking outside the box... : ).

      --
      Below the speed of light Special Relativity is one of the most accurate theories in physics - above the speed of light..
  12. Selection bias? by Daniel+Dvorkin · · Score: 4, Insightful

    I can't help but wonder how many people with plenty of "curiosity, passion, hard work, and persistence bordering on obsession" we've never heard of. In other words, we don't actually know--and likely can't know--how likely people with these traits are to be remembered by the world as geniuses, and how many will be regarded by their families and friends as obsessive workaholics with lousy personal lives and utterly forgotten outside those circles.

    --
    The correlation between ignorance of statistics and using "correlation is not causation" as an argument is close to 1.
    1. Re:Selection bias? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Could be worse. I sometimes wonder about the contemporaries of Copernicus and Galileo who didn't escape the Inquisition and were executed and lost to history for their revolutionary ideas.

    2. Re:Selection bias? by mrbester · · Score: 1

      That's the thing. "Genius" in this context is taken to be based on output known to the greatest number of people. Which is a bullshit metric and denigrates those who aren't fortunate enough to get individually famous. Take Teflon for instance. "Invented" by DuPont and world famous. Not "discovered by a research chemist" whose name (Roy Plunkett) is only known by those who take the trouble to look at the Wikipedia entry and / or take part in pub quizzes. And at least he got famous in his field with awards.

      --
      "Wait. Something's happening. It's opening up! My God, it's full of apricots!"
    3. Re:Selection bias? by m00sh · · Score: 1

      I can't help but wonder how many people with plenty of "curiosity, passion, hard work, and persistence bordering on obsession" we've never heard of. In other words, we don't actually know--and likely can't know--how likely people with these traits are to be remembered by the world as geniuses, and how many will be regarded by their families and friends as obsessive workaholics with lousy personal lives and utterly forgotten outside those circles.

      Reminds me of the string theory physicists that I read in some book.

      Before string theory was established, there were two thoughts in physics, both equally challenging and one was string theory and the other quite similar. Both scientists worked in the two thoughts, had offices next to each other and created a lot of ideas and work from that.

      However, string theory took off the guy who created it got lots of attention. His colleague who worked equally hard failed because he was unlucky to have the opposing theory.

      We define genius by their impact on society and not by their inherent capability.

      However, all geniuses are obsessively hard workers are a little vague. I remember Nash (game theory) only worked like that for a short period of time. By luck his work became very successful but he didn't have a lifetime of drive and passion because he was battling psychological illness.

      Even the great genius Einstein had great four years and nothing else. Before those four years, he was a failure. After the four years, he never created anything and couldn't appreciate the modern advances in the field that he had created (god does not play dice).

    4. Re:Selection bias? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Or Douglas Engelbart, who outside of computer science circles, is an unknown name.

    5. Re:Selection bias? by bill_mcgonigle · · Score: 2

      how likely people with these traits are to be remembered by the world as geniuses

      Yeah, the summary at least is throwing around all sorts of words - genius, successful, eminent, accomplished - these all mean different things.

      I think what they're trying to say is "famous smart people who created notable things". Which isn't the same thing as 'genius' at all, though a genius could be among them.

      Other geniuses may choose completely different paths, which may or may not be borne of wise decisions.

      --
      My God, it's Full of Source!
      OUTSIDE_IP=$(dig +short my.ip @outsideip.net)
    6. Re:Selection bias? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      General relativity was (1916-1920), long after 1905...I believe Bose-Einstein statistics, notion of spontaneous emission, and the EPR paper (1936, I think) all came later, also....

    7. Re:Selection bias? by nbauman · · Score: 1

      2 more things they need -- luck and money.

      Ehrlich summed up the requirements for success in research with the four G’s: Glück (luck), Geduld (patience), Geschick (skill), and Geld (money) (Ehrlich, 1913).
      http://www.nature.com/jid/journal/v132/n3-2/full/jid2011475a.html

    8. Re:Selection bias? by captainlavender · · Score: 1

      Agrred -- they're necessary but not sufficient to be recognized as a person of renown, no matter how much you do by yourself in the garage. Someone pointed out in another comment that there are fewer women and minorities who have contributed in fields like science than whites and men, and I think your comment might be EXTREMELY relevant to that observation.

  13. Re:Don't forget privilege, even if not financial.. by laejoh · · Score: 1

    I resent the comment above...

  14. Re:It seemSlashdot == Hugh Pickens DOT Com These D by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 3, Insightful

    He's really talented, though. Hugh's summaries are never just a single link wrapped in a quick copy-paste summary, but a quite broad picture of a topic. On the other hand, I'm a curious why he puts so much effort to Slashdot submissions. Dice should be paying him already.

  15. Genius Is Subjective by jhd · · Score: 3, Insightful

    Whom is to determine the genius status of any particular individual. Genius is based on a system of values as perceived by ones peers. If i were to believe math or rocket science were an important trait, I would judge someone with impeccable skills in this area as genius. But someone that would value the arts or athletic skills at a greater lever may not see this person in the same light. Many times there has been someone given the genius label and I find it difficult to see the noted person in this classification because of my value system. so it goes that I cannot believe there is one common scale that genius can be measured.

    -- john

    1. Re:Genius Is Subjective by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      But someone that would value the arts or athletic skills at a greater lever may not see this person in the same light.

      Of course not. These things do not further our understanding of the world and universe around us, and as such, I do not see such people as geniuses in the least.

    2. Re:Genius Is Subjective by Hognoxious · · Score: 2

      Whom is to determine the genius status of any particular individual.

      I can safely say that your English teacher isn't one.

      --
      Confucius say, "Find worm in apple - bad. Find half a worm - worse."
    3. Re:Genius Is Subjective by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Genius is measured more or less along the lines of the mind/brain as a processor. The medium by which that processor is applied is variable.

    4. Re:Genius Is Subjective by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Not really, genius is generally evident within the field one works in. I know nothing about the ballet, so I'm not likely to notice geniuses in that field. But, it's not impossible for me to see a ballerina that's so amazing that she makes me a fan of the ballet.

      In other words, while one generally needs an awareness of the field to make such assertions, some people transcend that and are identifiable by anybody. I hate basketball, but it's clear that Michael Jordan was some sort of a genius when he was playing. It was clearly something more than just his body that allowed him to jump like that, he had to find some way of getting his body to jump like that. Even now, few, if any, have managed to play the way that he did when he was playing.

    5. Re:Genius Is Subjective by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I can safely say that your English teacher isn't one.

      Although some teachers might appreciate a good student that quickly and effortlessly learns while never forgetting, I suspect more feed off a large pool of idiots.

      Likely, a genius english teacher would not seek a living where they're not needed.

    6. Re:Genius Is Subjective by Hognoxious · · Score: 1

      Likely, a genius english teacher would not seek a living where they're not needed.

      So why did yours quit?

      --
      Confucius say, "Find worm in apple - bad. Find half a worm - worse."
  16. Nothing by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Nothing. Nothing makes a genius; it's a word with no objective definition that's been diluted over the years to the point of worthlessness. Leave it behind.

  17. You didn't build that by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

    Video showing what this looks like when it happens.

    I know you were going for something like record labels ripping off musicians, but I think the video of Obama saying "You didn't build that" hits the point better for everyone.

  18. Re:Don't forget privilege, even if not financial.. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Total babble and talking about great people you need to take amount of residents in the equation. In your sense comparing 3 million people with lets say billions chinese you cannot ignore the facts otherwise your very judgement is very impaired.

  19. true by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    true and it does largely apply to me as well, but genius also has exceptional abilities which is still the main and driving factor and therefore your excerpt has no meaning and contains no useful information in it. Hardly a surprise.

  20. Only one real answer by Dachannien · · Score: 2

    I have it on good authority that Kanye West is a genius.

  21. Re:Don't forget privilege, even if not financial.. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    I resent your comment about resenting the comment above...

  22. Re:Don't forget privilege, even if not financial.. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    How many times did you re-send it?

  23. Re:Don't forget privilege, even if not financial.. by RandomUsername99 · · Score: 1

    Maybe you should read the essay.

  24. Abnormal by SuperCharlie · · Score: 0

    It takes abnormal to be different. It takes different to make changes. From DNA that didnt quite come out right to someone who has an unstoppable obsession, these are the type things that open new doors. Genius is not a normal person working hard, genius is something different. Of course these people are social misfits, and easily abused, they are not on the same plane, they are by nature, different. And most likely for every person we hear about as genius there are multitudes who are idiots as well as many many who are squashed by the machine. A normal person sees a box and puts things in it, a genius sees a box and fills it with their obsession.

  25. Output of things that get notoriety, awards etc. by acscott · · Score: 5, Insightful

    "When Terman first used the IQ test to select a sample of child geniuses, he unknowingly excluded a special child whose IQ did not make the grade. Yet a few decades later that talent received the Nobel Prize in physics: William Shockley, the cocreator of the transistor. Ironically, not one of the more than 1,500 children who qualified according to his IQ criterion received so high an honor as adults." Simonton, Dean Keith (1999). Origins of genius: Darwinian perspectives on creativity. Oxford: Oxford University Press. ISBN 978-0-19-512879-6. Lay summary (14 August 2010).

    Exceptional output requires access to tools, training, and environment (food, health, relationships) that enable the person to devote (obssess?) over solving the problems or creating something. And, the person's exceptional output must be recognized as such. So being highly intelligent won't make it. It may even be a hindrance. For instance, it would be easy to imagine the first ever person to be able to repeatedly create fire would not score well on any measure of intelligence today, but to the tribe, that person may not only be considered a genius but a god.

  26. Now explain this to those on the pokies machines by evanh · · Score: 1

    They might get a better understanding of themselves instead of thinking they're total scum.

    I have a lot of trouble pointing out that obsessiveness is often mistaken for addiction these days. I think it's due to an attempt to assign a medical condition to those being irresponsible with their families and thereby able to bring the law to bare.

    Aside from the fact that one can't be addicted to an activity it also is disrespectful to those that do suffer under addiction and, of course, misleading to the rest of us.

  27. like Einstein said... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Everybody is a genius. But if you judge a fish by its ability to climb a tree, it will live its whole life believing that it is stupid.

    We used to always judge humans based on who their parents were - now we only mostly do that, and for the rest of the prejudice we turn to IQ tests, aptitude tests, &c. Anything and everything is employed to stop people from flourishing unless the insecurely powerful can measure them as sufficiently similar.

    (And, FWIW, IQ 146 and millionaire family. I know how fucking lucky I am, and yet I know I'm worth nothing unless I work my butt off to contribute something to the world.)

    1. Re:like Einstein said... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I'm beginning to think IQ is probably all a crock. It changes all the time. Too much coffee? Feeling depressed? --> lower IQ today! In terms of career, having a very high IQ is not at all associated with success. Really. I have to laugh when I see people claiming IQs above 180 for famous philosophers, much more than the great physicists like Einstein or Dirac - totally unbelievable - and even saying JS Bach was only 142. It's crud from cows.

    2. Re:like Einstein said... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      IQ correlates with success in the same way that race correlates with success: if you value white people more then whitey's gonna do a lot better. It's not even as simple as IQ being totally meaningless - it's that it's a measure of abilities which are nurtured by a particular culture.

      In Viking culture, "IQ" might be replaced with fighting quotient - let's call it FQ - and mysteriously everyone with FQ seems to be successful, and everyone is taught to fight, then somehow FQ grows steadily higher over time in that particular culture... until everyone has a wonderful FQ. Then suddenly civilisation collapses because everyone's got better at one particular kind of activity but become hopeless at everything else.

      (It's different this time, of course. Unlike every other culture which became increasingly single-minded and quasi-religious in its adherence to some dogma, this one totally won't fail.)

    3. Re:like Einstein said... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      IQ is a measure of fluid intelligence as in the ability to learn. IQ isn't a crock, it's just that it's widely misunderstood and misused. Having a high IQ is great, mine's in the 140s, but apart from helping me compensate for learning disorders, it's never been a particular benefit in and of itself.

  28. Re:Don't forget privilege, even if not financial.. by tri44id · · Score: 1

    Many people, including me, would argue that Carla Bley & Paul Haines' Escalator Over the Hill is a work of genius.

    My definition of genius in a work is that it must contain aspects that can't be learned or explained. You're listening, watching, or reading along and thinking "yes, I understand how that follows now that it's been shown to me" -- this is merely brilliant levels of skill -- and then there comes a passage that sets you back thinking "woah, what just happened there?"

    Claude Debussy's music is full of these moments, even when you understand its predecessors and influences like Chausson. Most of Hector Berlioz's compositions are tedious at best, but the 2/4 bars in his Roman Carnival Overture take a logical sequence of developing intensity beyond what can be sensibly explained by any textbook in a way that astonishes me every time I hear it.

    Pablo Picasso is reported to have said "I never know when the spark of genius will strike me, but I make sure that I'm in front of an easel with a brush in my hand when it does."

    All the practice in the world can't buy these kinds of moments, but it can give you the confidence to take them when they appear, and the skill to execute them with precision. You don't have to be a genius to produce genius works, but it helps.

    --
    Taxation without representation is tyranny! Statehood for DC, Puerto Rico, Virgin Islands & Pacific Territories!
  29. Genius by Impy+the+Impiuos+Imp · · Score: 2

    Does any researcher really think their generalizations capture that which they cannot imagine?

    If a dog researcher analyzed humans, he'd be like, "and we see the human goes over here and waves his hands and light suddenly appears in the night. That's all there is to it, I've watched him do it a hundred times."

    --
    (-1: Post disagrees with my already-settled worldview) is not a valid mod option.
  30. Ob by Hognoxious · · Score: 1

    How is gennus formed?

    --
    Confucius say, "Find worm in apple - bad. Find half a worm - worse."
    1. Re:Ob by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      How is gennus formed?

      As .PDF?

    2. Re:Ob by wonkey_monkey · · Score: 1

      Fucking geniuses, how do they work?

      --
      systemd is Roko's Basilisk.
    3. Re:Ob by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Magnets

  31. Oh oh I know! by zifn4b · · Score: 3, Funny

    A maniacal cackle, an evil grin and an uncanny ability to great doomsday devices?

    --
    We'll make great pets
    1. Re:Oh oh I know! by zifn4b · · Score: 0

      And apparently the lack of ability to correctly use the preview option :( insert("create", "to", "great");

      --
      We'll make great pets
    2. Re:Oh oh I know! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      That would be Archimedes, of course

      http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UzzaSWyIhHM

    3. Re:Oh oh I know! by gawdonblue · · Score: 1

      And frickin' lasers

  32. Re:fiction by Hognoxious · · Score: 1

    I always thought it was allegorical: never underestimate light infantry with a ranged attack capability.

    --
    Confucius say, "Find worm in apple - bad. Find half a worm - worse."
  33. Re:Don't forget privilege, even if not financial.. by Jmc23 · · Score: 0

    Ah USians... ignorant of the rest of the world and apparently ignorant of the rest of western culture as well.

    --
    Don't complain about syntax, grammar, or spelling. There is no.hell like input on android.
  34. high intelligence by QuietLagoon · · Score: 0

    high intelligence

    Why do we humans define intelligence such that humans are the most intelligent creatures on this planet?

    .
    Is that really a valid definition of intelligence, or just human self-importance and vanity?

    1. Re:high intelligence by evanh · · Score: 2

      While intelligence is a vague term in itself there is something to be said for the written word, collaboration, education, proofs, and the extrapolated reasoning that comes from combining them all.

    2. Re:high intelligence by wonkey_monkey · · Score: 5, Insightful

      Man has always assumed that he is more intelligent than, for example, dolphins because he has achieved so much—the wheel, New York, wars and so on—whilst all the dolphins have ever done is muck about in the water having a good time. But conversely, the dolphins have always believed that they are far more intelligent than man—for precisely the same reasons.

      -Douglas Adams (slightly paraphrased)

      --
      systemd is Roko's Basilisk.
  35. Re:Don't forget privilege, even if not financial.. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Ah USians... ignorant of the rest of the world and apparently ignorant of the rest of western culture as well.

    As arrogant as you think Americans are. Business as usual.

  36. The role of luck and society by m00sh · · Score: 3, Interesting

    Wasn't it someone's theory (or experiments) that luck was the largest factor in a genius?

    I remember Gladwell's book starts off with the Canadian hockey team and the birthday paradox. The birthdays of the players in the Canadian hockey team fall primarily on the beginning of the year, primarily the first few months of the year. There wasn't anyone born on the second half of the year.

    The theory was that this is because of the age cutoff of Jan 1st. When they select the junior teams, the age cutoff is Jan 1st. So, someone born on January has almost a year head start over the person born on December. That little difference between individuals turns into who gets coaching or not, who gets selected for teams and ultimately who makes the national sides.

    Yes, some people are geniuses because they have drive and passion and are workaholics but not because they are born that way but because each little bit of effort they put in gets rewarded very heavily (and that situation comes by from luck).

    Why do geniuses come in clusters? Why were there so many Greek geniuses? Why hasn't Greece produced another set of geniuses like them after that?

    The other argument was that geniuses were able to feed off the society. If we as a society value something very highly, then we reward the person good in it with money and admiration. That again creates a lot of drive and passion for the work they do and they strive to obsessively improve on it.

    It has been disproved that geniuses have high IQ. There are a lot of geniuses with normal IQ.

    So, technically, anyone with at least normal IQ can be a genius. You have to be born in the right society and pursue something that the society deems very valuable. Then, you have to have luck that will get you funding, audience etc for you work that will fuel your passion and drive.

    1. Re:The role of luck and society by volmtech · · Score: 1

      Geniuses can do things other people can't. I worked with a genius. Born to a poor family he spent his teen years playing with cars and motorcycles and went to work at a junkyard instead of college. Some how (he never told me) he was recruited by the DoD and spent ten years working at secret weapons sites. While in the Navy I was recruited for the nuclear propulsion program but didn't accept because I wanted to farm with my dad. We lost the farm so I needed a job that utilized my skills. He "burnt out" and wound up at a produce facility three miles from his house. Anything mechanical, architectural, electrical or electronic he could do. On top of that he was 6' 2", 300 lbs of muscle. Hated his wife and didn't want to go home. We worked 80 hour weeks for 10 years. Often doing construction or using heavy equipment on side jobs. I ended up broken and disabled, but we did have some good times with lots of deep philosophical discussions.

  37. Recognition by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    The other hallmark is the recognition of it in myself.

  38. Sounds like... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    ... the definition of most post-docs.

  39. When a mommy and daddy love each other very much by Culture20 · · Score: 2

    Really, wasn't this covered in school?

  40. Re:"geniuses like Picasso, Freud"... LOL by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    It must make you bitter to realize that their work and fame will endure for centuries to come whereas your hateful bile will be buried with you.

  41. e.g. Autism by vortex2.71 · · Score: 1

    This sounds like a trait list for having Autism Spectrum Disorder. No seriously

  42. Re:Don't forget privilege, even if not financial.. by Gr8Apes · · Score: 2

    You might want to change your statement to "no women equivalents to Michelangelo or Rembrandt, Delacroix or Cezanne, Picasso or Matisse..." have been recognized, due to the societal taboos of growing up in those times. They were there, but were sidelined or worse when their talents started showing. A sad statement on western civilization at the time, but others were/are no better.

    --
    The cesspool just got a check and balance.
  43. Re:Don't forget privilege, even if not financial.. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    "...in very recent times, for de Kooning or Warhol, any more than there are black American equivalents for the same. "

    umm...Jean-Michel Basquiat?

  44. Output by multimediavt · · Score: 3, Insightful

    What makes a genius?

    Output.

    You can be the smartest person, ever. If you don't do anything with it you will never know genius. Genius is just a recognized smart person, that is a person recognized for being really smart.

    1. Re:Output by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Mod parent up. How many unrecognized geniuses do you know? No, you can't count yourself!

  45. Re: "geniuses like Picasso, Freud"... LOL by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Humm... You know Picasso was not at all jew, do you?

    And he also was already a master of the standard way by his early teens.

  46. Never heard some much nonsense. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Feynman was well rounded even if he was a jerk
    Freeman Dyson is a mensch (even if he isn't Jewish)
    In fact all the Dysons (Ester and George) are genius and neither are what you'd call obsessive.

    Or, you can do what I did and take the WAIS-R and be told that your IQ exceeds the bounds of the test.

  47. Do any of the truly gifted producers care? by tomxor · · Score: 1

    The "Vultures" are no less greedy and manipulative than your description... probably more so. But I wonder if the most gifted artists, thinkers, scientist, mathematicians and so on, actually care. There are far easier ways to make money, If they are as focused and driven as described in the article then it seems likely they care more about attribution than monetary appropriation any more than is necessary to live and fund their work.

    Conversely look at how pop artists and the RIAA bicker over adequately appropriating all of their disproportionate wealth...

    I don't think this disinterest in money is necessarily limited to "Genius" ether though. I'd quite like to see a slashdot poll on this actually... what do you care about more, your work or your pay check?

  48. Freud, a genius? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

    So Freud is a genius? Maybe a Maddox-like one, a fraud. What's he doing near Einstein or Newton?

  49. Avoiding HBS and its ilk. by cpj · · Score: 1

    A person's genius is inversely proportional to the amount of time spent THINKING about attending and/or ACTUALLY attending business school, particularly Harvard, Penn, or Yale. Those business and econ motherfuckers have done more damage to mankind than the Bhopal incident write large all over the globe.

  50. What's a genius by thoughtsatthemoment · · Score: 1

    You call someone a genius after his/her great work is done, not before.

  51. What Xerox PARC has to say on the subject by ulatekh · · Score: 1

    Some years back, one of the former department heads at Xerox's Palo Alto Research Center (whose reputation for innovation is nearly unmatched in history) wrote a book on this subject. I recently read it and enjoyed it greatly. It's called Breakthrough: stories and strategies of radical innovation. I highly recommend it.

    --
    "Once we've identified and embraced our sickness, we'll have strength...and that's when we get dangerous." - John Waters
  52. Lots of ideas, intellectual cross-training by ulatekh · · Score: 1

    Someone once asked Linus Pauling what his secret was to having good ideas. He answered that it was having lots of ideas and throwing away the bad ones.

    Here's my personal list of genius traits:

    1. 1) Read
      Stand on the shoulders of giants as much as possible. No point rediscovering the wheel.
    2. 2) Work hard
      Genius is 1% inspiration and 99% perspiration.
    3. 3) Intellectual cross-training
      Learn as much as you can about as many different subjects as you can. You'll be stunned how often principles from one subject will apply in a completely unrelated subject.
    --
    "Once we've identified and embraced our sickness, we'll have strength...and that's when we get dangerous." - John Waters
  53. Genius is a myth by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    I've known someone who was often referred to as a genius in his profession (this isn't just someone who people casually referred to as a genius--it's someone who is a legend in his field, of historical importance, and who would be recognized by various people reading this thread).

    Bright, yes, but I think a lot of what happened is arrogance, followed by a sort of faddish cult that exalted his status from merely "smart" to "legendary."

    I don't say this out of ill will or jealousy--I could really care less, as his success has nothing to do with mine, and I can't say I'm doing poorly in life.

    However, I see "genius" as sort of the contemporary equivalent of "saint." It's a sort of mythical label that has nothing to do with reality, that takes reality and exaggerates it until it's something different entirely.

    Sure, this guy was talented, obsessed, worked hard as hell, and really didn't give a damn about what others thought. There were some lessons in that. But many of those things also contributed to problems in the field, and his success sort of had more to do with the public perception of him than what he actually did.

    This article really summarizes my thoughts about the whole thing:

    http://www.theatlantic.com/past/issues/2002/12/garber.htm

  54. Re:Output of things that get notoriety, awards etc by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 3, Insightful

    I would also argue that people who are recognised early as "genius material" are more likely to piss away their potential because they have been told for so long how amazing they are. This sort of thing is very common in high schools and universities as well. I've seen plenty of people who performed very well early in their education, solely based on their natural ability, only to go on to massively underachieve in late high school or university because they grew up without really having a connection between academic praise and hard work. These are the sort of people who end up pissing away the rest of their lives unemployed or in average jobs browsing 4chan all day, despite being quite intelligent. Basically, I think the worst thing you can do to a kid with a naturally high IQ is to tell them that they are going to grow up to be a genius. All you will achieve is setting them up for a life of mediocrity on the back of laziness.

  55. Wrong Friend-O by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Genius is genius, properly a spiritual apprehension that manifests as giftedness. If bounding ambitious workaholism were genius then I guess they all will be happy. If it is the exception and not the rule then you have it and it is not a product. If you never produce anything or work not a whit and have no ambition the light of genius shines no less. It only shines less for the external world.
    Of course those busy bees who toil away are more likely to have their particular genius recorded by the history books for self evident reasons.

    1. Re:Wrong Friend-O by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      We are all Bozo's on this bus.

  56. Re: "geniuses like Picasso, Freud"... LOL by istartedi · · Score: 1

    He's a racist troll. He needs help. You should have googled it for him.

    --
    For all intensive purposes, "whom" is no longer a word. That begs the question, "who cares"?
  57. Genuises don't care about the vultures... by bayankaran · · Score: 1

    Invariably, we also see throughout history that these laser focused artists and creators are preyed upon by the vultures.

    Geniuses, or the really talented and focused artists and creators do not care about the vultures. For the last few centuries vultures - aka 'agents' - were needed, without them it was difficult to propagate your work. At least in the field of arts (except for cinema) it has changed with internet. You do not need an 'agent' anymore to propagate your work. But the flip side - even in 2014, without an agent, your work may not achieve the acclaim it deserves.
    But then Geniuses are not concerned with material rewards. I don't think a real genius cares too much about the square feet/number of bedrooms in their house, or the car they drive. As long as these basic necessities are taken care off, they will be happy in their environment. An 'agent' will increase your revenue, they won't better your output, and mostly they will be a distraction. As such a majority of 'agents' are glorified pimps.
    A genius will never talk about their work, they will let their work talk.

    --
    Tat Tvam Asi
  58. Re:Output of things that get notoriety, awards etc by russotto · · Score: 2

    Hmm. Spend your life in an average job which allows you the time to waste at work on leisure activities like 4chan, or burn yourself out working for a money man in some sort of Faustian arrangement. Perhaps the failed prodigies ARE the real geniuses...

  59. NFL Coaches = bad kind of Obsessive by globaljustin · · Score: 1

    Pro & college football & basketball coaches definitely be the obsessive, but its definitely not the kind that fosters 'genius'.

    They work, no joke, 80 hour weeks. (i know, i know, you work that much or w/e too but most professionals dont work more than 60 & to work more than that usually means you are being taken advantage of)

    80 hour weeks. And not just the coaches...the whole staff. Sometimes down to the athletic trainers. It was an athletic trainer friend of mine from college who worked for a pro team in Indianapolis brieftly as a trainer.

    He said it's **common** for the coaching/support staff to be insanely competitive & to attempt to 'signal value' by being seen at the facility physically virtually all hours. Even in the off season they are at the stadium every day, usually 60 hours a week total.

    According to him it's an artificial kind of Darwinian way for these people to do office politics exaggerated b/c it is pro sports.

    I know tech usually isnt this bad, but it shows something important about obsessive work.

    Obsessive work with a functional goal may be a trait of genius, but Obsessive work doing abastract tasks to demonstrate commitment or some other non-funcitonal melodramatic trait is **pointless**

    One thing I try to notice is how much drama a business I'm considering using as a vendor has to conjure up to get work done. If every task is a Shakespearean-in-magnitude epic then I stere clear.

    --
    Thank you Dave Raggett
    1. Re:NFL Coaches = bad kind of Obsessive by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      The reason they can't be geniuses is because the rules in most of these sports are fairly restrictive. You can come up with new formations and plays, but only within the context of the rulebook which has been evolving for over 100 years to prevent a team with coming up with tactics or an advantage considered not in the spirit of the game.

      America's Cup in sailing might be an exception, as it has evolved to be mostly a competition between yacht designers. But the tactics of the sailors on the course during the races are anything but innovative.

      Even so, NFL coaches do work almost insanely hard - think of a game development team trying to make a Christmas deadline for their boxed AAA game. That's what it's like for just about every NFL coaching staff for pretty much the entire season starting with training camp in August. A lot of it is spent poring over video of their own players and those of the upcoming opponents, trying to pinpoint weaknesses and figuring out how to exploit or compensate for them. Any staff that slacks off, it will show up in wins and losses and chances are they'll all be fired at the end of the season. So I'm not sure it's a "bad type of obsessive", that's just the way it is. At least the coaches don't have fast, athletic 300 lb-ers crashing into them and driving them into the turf.

    2. Re:NFL Coaches = bad kind of Obsessive by nobodie · · Score: 1

      this is an excellent reason to not go into that business. Why are you doing this? Money? Fucking money?
      stupid humans....

      --
      Subversion of spatial scale luxury decoration ideas.
  60. that's the point it's not productive by globaljustin · · Score: 1

    That's what it's like for just about every NFL coaching staff for pretty much the entire season starting with training camp in August

    whole point of my story was to point out how this is a trope but it's not true

    this the support/coaching staff here not the actual athletes we're talking about...they watch more game footage than they need to just to look like they are working "as hard as possible" meaning, in practice, more than the other guy in a tight org. read old SI articles about what the schedule for someone in Coach K's staff is like. Have a look at what people say about working for Van Gundy in his tenure at the Rockets (I also had a friend who worked as a low-level staffer there but we didn't talk as much in depth...she said it was insanely competitive though...way beyond anything except something like the military b/c of the money these athletes/programs make)

    look, your ideas of how sports work are a false narrative. yes of course it takes alot of work-hours to prepare an NFL game plan, but that's not my point...the whole point is that sometimes up to 50% of it is just, as Shakespear said,

    "Sound and Fury signifying nothing"

    the whole point is that spending 80 hours to do 40 hours of work is **the BAD type of obsessive** which b-ball & NFL coaches in the US recently are good examples of

    --
    Thank you Dave Raggett
  61. What makes people successful: by tinkerton · · Score: 1

    A lot of what Pickens is saying here is about what makes people successful, regardless of whether they're smart or not. And the main thing that matters most, even more than talent, in making people successful is full singleminded commitment. As for talent, having 'enough' talent suffices. Obviously I know cases where full commitment is not going to be enough.

  62. The most importamt aspect of genius by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    The most important aspect of genius is that they feel far more intensely than other people. They tend to be intensely sensitive to everything. This however does not guarantee success.
    This article on the other hand describes successful people . That does not necessarily mean that they are geniuses.

  63. Artistic Rigor by Tenebrousedge · · Score: 1

    There are two divisions of "technique" when it comes to art. The first involves the physical manipulation of the medium, which has changed somewhat with the invention of new media, and some parts have become obsolete. The second involves understanding of perspective, anatomy, color, lines and shapes, various atmospheric effects, et cetera, and in many cases also how these rules may be broken to artistic effect, and these are timeless. Sure, anyone can paint without understanding, and anyone may criticize without comprehending, but you know how it is: everyone has an opinion and an asshole.

    But, to be any good as an artist, you must certainly have rigor and knowledge of history. It is not enough to simply expel your first imaginings onto paper or canvas. The proper course would be to take photographs, do a color study, a black-and-white shape study, and a dozen figure studies (from life, including making a maquette if necessary), before even touching the main work. A lifetime of photographic study, plein air painting, and a deep understanding of the Old Masters helps too. If you do all this, you may enjoy the commercial success of e.g. James Gurney. I wouldn't want to give odds on his being long remembered to history though, unfortunately. It is of course not necessary for the critic to be an artist, if you think only of a critic as someone who draws public perception towards or away from a work, but if your friend comes to you and says, "Be honest with me. What's wrong with this painting?" then you had better know the trade at least as well as he does.

    On the mathematical side, as long as we teach mathematics as nothing more than mechanical calculation, I despair of the species. Rigor may be necessary to STEM, but we have truly wonderful machines for calculation these days. Perhaps programming will be the necessary method with which we abstract computation into the proper sphere of symbol manipulation.

    --
    Those who advocate genocide deserve every protection afforded by law, and none afforded by common human decency.
  64. Re:Don't forget privilege, even if not financial.. by captainlavender · · Score: 1

    Ah, thank you. It's shocking how unable to take the next logical step this argument is. Yes, there weren't famous women scientists during those times when women were allowed zero access to the realms of science, philosophy, or invention -- wonder why that might be??? Ugh.

  65. Re:Output of things that get notoriety, awards etc by captainlavender · · Score: 1

    It's not just your intuition, actually. There is a lot of research coming out that praising children for things beyond their control -- intelligence particularly -- will just make them feel helpless and afraid to disappoint, and will make them less likely to try new things and explore because of this paralyzing fear. (For the curious, the new research says, praise your children mostly for effort, and maybe also for particular accomplishments. Knowing you're effective even without natural advantages is a much, much more effective mindset than believing you're naturally good at everything -- because sooner or later, you'll find out that you aren't).

  66. Intelligence is a crippling concept (warning:long) by captainlavender · · Score: 1

    My generation is full of people who were praised for their innate intelligence -- something a child understands is beyond her control -- and subsequently developed the worldview that natural gifts are what matters, that failure is the worst thing, and that if you're not good at something naturally, you won't get good, so, no point trying (these aren't conscious beliefs; more like beliefs we find ourselves slipping into). Research shows that what children need is not high self-esteem, but "self efficacy", which is your faith in yourself to rescue situations, overcome even unexpected obstacles, and develop skill at things via practice and force of will. All telling a kid he's smart will do is make him very, very afraid of anything that might disprove his intelligence. And the fear that, if the intelligence was gone, he would be worth less as a person.

    To develop this in others, praise them for their effort and the things they achieved (especially stuff that was harder for them, because the harder it was, the more they've accomplished, really). To develop it in yourself, try focusing on your efforts and strategies, and learn to identify in any situation what is under your control and how those things might be used to achieve your goals, even if it's going to be depressingly hard -- even if it's going to be EMBARRASSINGLY hard. We have to stop being ashamed of needing extra effort, or extra help, and start being proud that we MADE the extra effort, and that we FOUND the extra help. Those things are much, much more useful qualities than innate intelligence... which, by the way, INCREASES when you learn something that is difficult for you to grasp -- like literally, more nerve connections are forged so that later cell firing is infinitesimally faster, each time.

    And this is the heart of the matter -- what the hell is intelligence? There are hundreds of qualities we associate with it, and one intelligent person may be completely unable to do something another intelligent person can. Maybe we need to face that fact that "intelligence", like "cancer", does not exist -- it's simply a shorthand for a variety of skills and talents, which for the most part we all have some of but none of us have all of. Stop thinking of the person who doesn't understand math but dances incredibly well as unintelligent. And stop thinking of unintelligent people as inferior. I bet you know some unintelligent people who are among the best people you know. I certainly do.

  67. Obvious. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    It's a great thing I am a genius and already knew all of this.

  68. Bad reasoning by musth · · Score: 1

    The assumption that genius requires "achievement" of some kind is smuggled in.

  69. What about memory? by bbsalem · · Score: 1

    I think this posts misses one essential raw ingredient, not that the rest of it is wrong in any way. That is an astonishing memory for the content of the field, and in fact that is what stops most people, a poor focused memory.

    I know a little about musical memory and I am convinced that great composers of music must begin with very good memories, but that most musical people, even if they have good memories, must suppress the linkages between one passage and the next to process the mechanisms in the music to be able to compose new music. I am sure that someone like J.S. Bach must have had a flawless memory, probably recalling every musical work he ever heard, same with Mozart. Beethoven was deaf after about 1808, born 1770, died 1827, and so had to remember what he could no longer hear as he composed the masterworks of his Late period.

    I have known a few very smart, possibly genius level people, whose hallmark, starting point, is a flawless memory for the subject. I think that math geniuses need a very good memory of relationships and the steps of proofs. Chess masters have to memorize 40+ moves into a line and all the variations. Writers probably remember conversations they had decades ago. etc. etc.

    Ordinary people often project the mental acuity they have on the rest of the world, not being aware that there is wide variation in how people think, and what people remember, Geniuses probably do this as well, but as the article notes, as self-protection. Surely, they most be aware of how unique their mental abilities are.

  70. Clement Stone by NewYork · · Score: 1

    "You are a product of your environment." --Clement Stone

  71. Re:fiction by gzuckier · · Score: 1

    "Goliath beats David unless David is clever." You did research to see the Goliath always wins except when David is clever?

    it always amazed me that anybody ever figured that a big guy with a sword could beat a little fast guy who had even moderate skill with a sling, on an open field.
    i suppose they'd think it a miracle that a man with a gun could beat a bear in a fight.

    --
    Star Trek transporters are just 3d printers.
  72. Re:"geniuses like Picasso, Freud"... LOL by gzuckier · · Score: 1

    So, two TALENTLESS Jews, being hyped up by JEWS, no doubt, yet again. Picasso couldn't paint to save his life, and his works are monstrosities - a five year old can see that. Freud was a screwed up, neurotic failure, his own 'theories' couldn't even make HIM happy, what hope was there for his 'patients'?

    how long have you felt this way about your mother?

    --
    Star Trek transporters are just 3d printers.
  73. Re: "geniuses like Picasso, Freud"... LOL by gzuckier · · Score: 1

    Humm... You know Picasso was not at all jew, do you?

    And he also was already a master of the standard way by his early teens.

    you are unfamiliar with the Protocols of the Elders of Antisemitism; chapter 17, on name.

    1) Anybody with a German name is Jewish.
    2) Anybody with an Eastern European name is Jewish.
    3) Anybody with a Dutch name is Jewish.
    4) Anybody with any unusual name is Jewish.
    4) Anybody you don't like is Jewish, no matter what the name.

    --
    Star Trek transporters are just 3d printers.
  74. Re:Don't forget privilege, even if not financial.. by gzuckier · · Score: 1

    james?? james??!!! you're back!!!!

    You see, man made the car
    To take us over the road
    Man made the train
    To carry the heavy load
    Man made the electric light
    To take us out of the dark
    Man made the boat full of water
    Like noah made the arc
    This is a mans, mans, mans world
    But it would be nothing, nothing
    Without a woman or a girl

    --
    Star Trek transporters are just 3d printers.
  75. Otto von Bismarck agrees with you. by pupsocket · · Score: 1

    He divided all military personnel into four quadrants.

    Slow-minded, lazy -- assigned as footsoldier
    Slow-minded, energetic -- dismissed from corps
    Quick-minded, energetic -- staff officer
    Quick-minded, lazy -- commanding officer

  76. Doesn't take a genius to answer by mcmonkey · · Score: 1

    What makes a genius?

    Roller skates and Acme Corp on speed dial.

  77. Re:Don't forget privilege, even if not financial.. by RandomUsername99 · · Score: 1

    This is exactly the argument that the essay is making. Maybe you should read it.

  78. Re:Don't forget privilege, even if not financial.. by RandomUsername99 · · Score: 1

    This is exactly the argument that the essay is making. It was written by a well-known feminist philosopher. Maybe you should read it before claiming that it is incorrect.

  79. Re:Don't forget privilege, even if not financial.. by RandomUsername99 · · Score: 1

    That essay was written before Basquiat was popular. Maybe you should read it.

  80. Re:Don't forget privilege, even if not financial.. by Gr8Apes · · Score: 1

    Then the essay fails in 100,000 words to say what I said in 40. Or, tl;dr. It failed to make the point in the first 4 paragraphs or the last 4, skimming the in between 50 or so just showed more driveling opining evident in the first couple of paragraphs. As a writer, the author failed. As an academic author, perhaps this relates to success, but only within the small secular group that would care to continually prattle around the topic about something that is already agreed to in 40 words.

    --
    The cesspool just got a check and balance.
  81. Genius Knol by Pallando-zi · · Score: 1
    The conclusion of the knol on the subject was that genius is:

    " a game-changing intellectual endeavour achieved by applying sustained effort to original insights afforded by superlative mastery of one or more subjects gained through outstanding intelligence and endless learning. "

  82. Re:Don't forget privilege, even if not financial.. by RandomUsername99 · · Score: 1

    The fact that you don't have the attention span to read an academic essay is not my, or the author's fault. It also doesn't give a gram of weight to your criticism.

  83. Re:Don't forget privilege, even if not financial.. by RandomUsername99 · · Score: 1

    Geeze, you sure got me.

  84. Re:fiction by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    When it comes to breaking heads the guy who throws stones always has an advantage.

  85. Re:Don't forget privilege, even if not financial.. by captainlavender · · Score: 1

    The article agrees with me. The other commenters clearly do not.

  86. Re:Don't forget privilege, even if not financial.. by Gr8Apes · · Score: 1

    You're incorrect. The fact that the author fails to write a coherent article is the reason I chose not to read the rest of the drivel (sorry, thoroughly analyzed and supported highly vaunted academic paper), much like I choose not to listen to Bill O'Reilly. Why waste my time? Now academic papers on cellular biology related to how we can repair genes in defective cells are interesting (to me), or perhaps stories on medical care from the 18th century, or Mark Twain's auto-biography or Albert Einstein's biography.

    --
    The cesspool just got a check and balance.
  87. Einstein said it, I listened by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    I did it: "A fool makes things bigger + more complex: It takes a touch of genius & a lot of courage to move in the opposite direction." - Einstein

    I merely evidence that (on MY part, via this 'shameless plug') with this:

    Hosts do more w/ less (1 file) @ a faster level (ring 0) vs redundant browser addons (slowing up slower ring 3 browsers) via filtering 4 the IP stack (coded in C, loads w/ OS, & 1st net resolver queried w\ 45++ yrs.of optimization):

    ---

    APK Hosts File Engine 9.0++ 32/64-bit:

    http://start64.com/index.php?o...

    (Details of hosts' benefits enumerated in link)

    Summary:

    ---

    A. ) Hosts do more than AdBlock ("souled-out" 2 Google/Crippled by default) + Ghostery (Advertiser owned) - "Fox guards henhouse", or Request Policy -> http://yro.slashdot.org/commen...

    B. ) Hosts add reliability vs. downed or redirected DNS + secure vs. known malicious domains too -> http://tech.slashdot.org/comme... w/ less added "moving parts" complexity + room 4 breakdown,

    C. ) Hosts files yield more speed (blocks ads & hardcodes fav sites - faster than remote DNS), security (vs. malicious domains serving mal-content + block spam/phish), reliability (vs. downed or Kaminsky redirect vulnerable DNS, 99% = unpatched vs. it & worst @ ISP level + weak vs FastFlux + DynDNS botnets), & anonymity (vs. dns request logs + DNSBL's).

    ---

    * Addons = more complexity & room for breakdown + slowup browsers in message passing (use a few concurrently & see) - Addons slowdown SLOWER usermode browsers layering on MORE: I work w/ what you have in kernelmode, via hosts ( A tightly integrated PART of the IP stack itself).

    It was MORE thought, design, & work than "genius" on my part though...

    (Resurrecting usage of OLD to do the job better than competitors do (such as adblock being crippled + defeated by ClarityRay & doing FAR less for users, by far in comparison)).

    APK

    P.S.=> "Less IS more" - & "genius"? I personally value the ideal of "polymath" far more...

    ... apk -