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Valve Offers Free Subscription To Debian Developers: Paying It Forward
sfcrazy writes "Valve Software, the makers of Steam OS, is already winning praise from the larger free and open source community – mainly because of their pro-community approach. Now the company is 'giving back' to Debian by offering free subscription to Debian developers. This subscription will offer full access to current and future games produced by Valve. Since Steam OS is based on Debian GNU/Linux it's a nice way for Valve to say 'thank you' to Debian developers."
and now nothing will get done.
This is obviously effort to thwart Debian.
I'm making a note here: HUGE SUCCESS
*Applause*
Q: Why did Debian development stop?
A: The entire development team was given dozens of free video games.
Priest: "Universe from nothing, no laws of physics, sped up time"+ huge discrepancies. Creationism? No. Big Bang Theory
Unstable is just another word for "typical software update schedule"
Drop the v at the end of the link...
https://lists.debian.org/debian-devel-announce/2014/01/msg00006.htmlv
There is a extra 'v' in the link. The real link is https://lists.debian.org/debia...
drmad
auto-playing ads with audio? I'm out of here.
"Valve Software, the makers of Steam OS, is already winning praise from the larger free and open source community â" mainly because of their pro-community approach"
Love to see how the new SlashAds is going...
Not just because this builds rapport with the community, but also because debian developers playing lots of Valve games will be debian developers with lots of firsthand exposure to any bugs or areas that could be improved; and the best work often comes from someone scratching a personal itch. Valve plays the game well (no pun intended).
It means the state of gaming on Linux will improve.
So a proprietary software company perhaps best known for their DRM system is "winning praise" from the "larger free and open source community"? Really?
And now Debian developers (who ostensibly care about software freedom) are being "rewarded" with some proprietary software at no charge. Stay classy, Valve.
But Debian's approval process for developers might get swamped by people trying to gain Debian Developer status just for the free games.
This is news because it is someone giving free stuff to open source developers!
Solely as a thank you for being developers that helped them succeed.
Another non-functioning site was "uncertainty.microsoft.com."
The purpose of that site was not known.
Cough cough: http://linux.slashdot.org/stor...
The games do not have to be DRMed and many are not. If you dont' want to play the DRMed ones then don't but don't try to tell everyone else what to play. Some of us want more choice.
The announcement on the mailing list says that developers need to send a signed email (signed with a key in the Debian keyring) to the Valve contact to request a redemption code. So my question is, what does it take to be recognised by Debian as a developer and get your key added to their keyring? Is this just for core Debian coders, or do documentation authors, package maintainers, etc, count too? This could be a great incentive for more people to get involved with the more mundane tasks that people usually shy away from, although if it's that easy, it would be ripe for abuse too.
Looks like tepples comment answers my question. The Debian New Member process is outlined here.
Valve would do much, much better IMHO if they donated to Debian, both in code and money. Giving away (prorietary, as you correctly point out) video games may be nice, but is useless.
I doubt many of the active developers for Debian have much time to play video games, anyway.
Do you know what license they will be using for VOGL? The linked articles don't seem to specify.
It is also open to debian maintainers and others who have their key as part of the debian keyrings.
It is generally a reasonable amount of effort to become even a Debian Maintainer, you have to have:
1. had your key signed by 2 debian developers,
2. declared your intent to become a Debian Maintainer and agreement with the various document (debian free software guidelines, social contract etc), and
3. been "adovcated" by a debian developer, where a debian developer familiar with your work describes it and recommends you.
This implies that you have been doing some work in some capacity for awhile and have been able to get a developer to advocate for you.
It is more work again to become a fully fledged Debian Developer.
Would it be a troll or would it really happen?
Note: "Debian Developer" != "any developer who uses/contributes to debian"
Don't expect to be able to achieve full DD status within the year. In order to become a DD (Debian Developer) I believe you typically also have to have been a DM (Debian Maintainer) for at least 6 months prior. Candidates are fairly thoroughly screened and trained. There is a mentoring process and everything.
For more information you can ask in #debian-mentors on irc.debian.org (irc.oftc.net) but I wouldn't recommend going there until you've done some research by first googling up and reading the information about the process and its requirements that are posted on debian.org. They don't have a lot of patience for people who refuse to do the recommended reading. They generally expect you're smart enough to know there IS recommended reading and go looking for it first before you ask for a personalized answer to your questions.
Valve Software, the makers of Steam OS, is already winning praise from the larger free and open source community – mainly because of their pro-community approach.
Richard Stallman would be rolling over in his grave if he were dead. Luckily, he's still here to insist it be called "The GNU/Steam OS".
I'm guessing its not that big of a deal.
Steam itself is free. And how many valve games are there actually? 2 left for deads, 2 portals, and the half-life/counterstrike series? Anyone who wants those can pick them up for 75% off during any of their many sales... its what $20 or 30 bucks worth of games tops?
Not to diminish the act, or my appreciation of Valve's recognition of the Debian developer team... but I can't really see a FLOOD of people trying to get on the debian development team over a few games, most of which they probably already have.
"...winning praise from the larger free and open source community"
OK, I use Linux foremost because it's open source. I use Linux also due the excellent GNU userland. That being said, why the hell should the open source community praise Valve for bringing proprietrary software to its most famous platform? If I wanted to use Steam, I would have left used my laptop's Windows key to install to my desktop. The fact is that an addition of proprietary software to a largely open ecosystem is not a benefit, but a threat. If Valve drives more people to Linux, it will only be under a banner proclaiming to developers that proprietary software is OK. Mind you, I think it is ethically OK, but it's not what I want, nor, do I believe, it is what the "larger free and open source community" wants. This statement that the FOSS is praising Valve sends out the message that the FOSS community wants another Windows or Mac OS, i.e. another operating system with a great amount of support by proprietary software vendors. That is not what the FOSS community is about.
Mark my words: When the Xbone and Paystation 4 are historical artifacts, there will be young people playing games on their Steam Boxes, most likely Hotline:Miami VII.
And then a meteor will hit earth and nobody will be playing anything.
Seriously, Steam Box will overtake the other gaming platforms. Plus, you can dual-boot and get work done. We will look at the consoles of 2013 approximately the way we look at the Dreamcast.
You are welcome on my lawn.
Closed source software with phone-home DRM. This is the antithesis of what Debian stands for. Maybe offer them a free trial of MS Office while you're at it?
I expect the tweaks and changes they've had to make have been or will be posted upstream in due time. Who would want to keep applying patches instead of submitting them to the source projects for integration?
I do not fail; I succeed at finding out what does not work.
Incentive to become Debian Developers...
Contributions are irrelevant, it's how well you put up with the hazing that gets you into the fraternity.
why the hell should the open source community praise Valve for bringing proprietrary software to its most famous platform?
For one thing, video games help ease the transition to a free platform. For another, video games by their nature are going to be proprietary because there isn't currently as much of a reciprocal sharing mentality around the components of a video game other than code (meshes, textures, maps, audio, and the like) as there is around code.
We will look at the consoles of 2013 approximately the way we look at the Dreamcast.
With a sudden, and overwhelming, desire to find a copy of Power Stone?
Does Super Smash Bros. or Custom Robo come closer to carrying on the platform fighting legacy of Power Stone?
It's still worth being uncomfortable about though. Closed is not what Debian is about... it's the ONLY major distro that makes a central point of keeping strong to its open source principles.
The people who actually understand what free software is and isn't aren't praising this. While the software may be less restrictive (less DRM) than the alternatives it's not free software by any stretch of the imagination. It's not good for us or the community. It brings in more non-free software and creates more problems. It's not just an ethical issue. It's a technical issue as well which is almost always overlooked by both free software proponents and 'open source' proponents. It's underhanded tactic by valve and distracts the larger community from the goals of the free software community. People who are 'open source' proponents tend to advocate for non-free software and are the ones supporting this.
“Free software” means software that respects users' freedom and community. Roughly, it means that the users have the freedom to run, copy, distribute, study, change and improve the software. Certainly you have none of this with valves software or the games distributed via it.
Debian [is] the ONLY major distro that makes a central point of keeping strong to its open source principles.
Richard Stallman disagrees, primarily because non-free exists. Besides, how does Fedora compromise free software principles?
You appear to suggest that video games instead be developed as free software and free cultural works. So who will feed and shelter developers of Free video games with production values comparable to the proprietary games of 2013?
People like you are really, really unpleasant to be around. Just seeing the negative in anything and everything.
The linked article says 'unspecified open source license'. Not all open source licenses are free (as in libre). Even if it is free, it doesn't change the fact that Valve primarily makes non-free software.
This is a fair offer but as an interesting fact, you could have gotten the Valve complete pack from a russian reseller for as low as 6-9 TF2 keys = 15 Dollar all day long.
http://store.steampowered.com/...
http://www.steamprices.com/us/...
"Life is short and in most cases it ends with death." Sir Sinclair
Did you know that slashdot is also not fully opensource compliant? Better stop using it.
Thanks for contributing! I've contributed very little code directly to Debian, but it may well be like some open source projects where developers are expected to spend ten times as much time on a feature than it takes to submit a patch.
In Moodle, for example, I added a feature that took about two hours to develop a working patch. Just before submitting the patch, I became an official developer. Seven MONTHS later I was done with that two hour patch. First, I needed to document the proposal for the new feature, then get (documented) community feedback. I had to apply a huge list of style rules to the patch, covering things like variable naming standards, whitespace, etc. Then I needed the component owner to review it. He pointed out that while it complied with the CURRENT standards, it didn't use the newly developed APIs that were chosen for the upcoming release. I recoded it to use the upcoming standards, and some design changes the component owner wanted. This process involved rebasing against master at several times - any time someone else needed to look at it. The new feature required very minor tweaks to some existing classes. Since I had touched those classes, I needed to update those old classes to the new coding standards as well. Then the integrator pointed out I was missing the suites of unit tests, etc.
In all, a two hour patch submission turns out to be 80 hours when you do all of the "official developer" stuff like unit tests and all. So that's one distinction between a developer, who is on the hook for all of that stuff vs. a contributor who graciously submits code.
Please understand I'm in no way devaluing any contributions. For most open source projects, I contribute patches only. I now have a new appreciation for the committed developers who do the grinding work required to have my code integrated into a high quality project.
Ps - a LOT of what I mentioned above are tasks a non-programmer or newbie programmer can help with, if anyone is looking for ways to contribute to projects you enjoy or are interested in.
Nothing more than a nicely baited hook...
Do you know what license they will be using for VOGL?
We're going to use the same license as APITrace: https://github.com/apitrace/apitrace/blob/master/LICENSE
Stallman isn't the only one who defines what Open source principles are.
You think Valve is giving the Debian dudes a shitload of free proprietary software out of the goodness of their heart? Obviously they want Debian to be more "Valve Friendly" i.e. closed source crapola friendly. If you want to play video games buy a fuckin' xbox.
You help me, I help you -> Paying it back.
You help me, I help them -> Paying it forward.
Am I getting this right?
I still don't understand why Steam has to be so Debian/Ubuntu-specific. Why could it not have been developed in a distro-agnostic manner?
That's fine, no one is expecting them to publish the art portion of the game under a free license. It would be nice to get the actual code, but that is not the problem here either. What makes this a farce is the Digital Restrictions Management. Once I buy the game I should be able to run it without running another binary that I cannot audit or even relink and whose professed function - communicating with Valve and possibly preventing me from doing what I want with my computer if they do not send the right response - is inimical to my own interests.
If I paid for the program I should be able to install and run it on my gaming pc - which is quite deliberately NOT connectable to the internet. I will sneaker-net patches that are needed, but why on earth would I sneaker-net in a program whose only function will be to try to phone home over and over with obviously no response, and eventually effect a hostile take-over of my computer to prevent me from paying the game I bought and paid for?
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Friends don't let friends enable ecmascript.
open source != free software
It is also open to debian maintainers
Hmm, the announcement on Debian-devel-announce only mentioned Debian Developers not Debian Maintainers.
note: i'm known as plugwash most places but i screwd up registering that here somehow in the past and now can't register
isn't that paying back, not forward?
is it just that saying "pay forward" is so much cooler, we must now use that phrase to mean its opposite?
If your gaming PC does not connect to the internet, I'm guessing you don't do much multiplayer...
That said: Steam's DRM is the least evil of them all, since it lets you re-download your games on any PC, anywhere as long as you remember your password. The "freedom" to not care if my gigs of games are wiped out in a hard drive failure, to copy the steam directory as-is to any PC on the same architecture and being able to straight up play, and to arbitrarily delete game files if I temporarily need the space is far more important to me than the freedom to look at arbitrary code.
I've heard Stallman speak, and he does make sense: if a program isn't behaving the way you want, the freedom to go in and correct that is very important towards reducing your stress while making your tasks easier. However, games by their very nature are unnecessary for getting actual work done. If you don't agree with a game's licensing, etc, you will never be forced to use it. Conversely, how many people are forced to use Microsoft Office every day?
This is a "choose your battles" scenario. Either 1) let Valve attract more people to Debian for desktop use. They'll play their closed source games when bored, and use the open source productivity software to get actual work done. Or, 2) fight them on this, they take their ball and go home, and the people they would have attracted continue to regard the FOSS movement as a bunch of loons that like to look gift horses in the mouth.
You missed DOTA 2, Day of defeat, team fortress classic and deathmatch classic (granted you might consider some of those part of the "half life/counterstrike series").
When I look on steam the "valve complete pack" currently costs £50. Of course if you wait for a sale you can probablly pick it up much cheaper than that.
note: i'm known as plugwash most places but i screwd up registering that here somehow in the past and now can't register
I once had the idea that adding money to Debian would be a good thing. I had an argument with someone that argued that it will only corrupt and destroy the project.
You are correct. RMS is correct. The person I argued with was correct.
I was wrong. Freedom and commerce do not mix.
You missed DOTA 2, Day of defeat, team fortress classic and deathmatch classic (granted you might consider some of those part of the "half life/counterstrike series").
You don't exactly have to be a debian developer to get Dota2 or TFC for free.
The other two titles you mentioned are pretty minor, and usually obtained via a bundle anyway.
When I look on steam the "valve complete pack" currently costs £50.
And if you buy during any of the regular sales you can pick up everything Valve offers for 75% off... so ... £12.50 give or take.
Thanks Valve. Now we won't have any Debian developers because they will be too busy playing games. Why don't you give them something of worth.
We need those developers coding rather than playing games. Oh wait, I guess if their code is compiling.
Also, where do I sign up to be a debian developer. ;-)
Buying an Xbox Telescreen is worse for freedom than proprietary software.
Yesterday I just started developing a Debian-related software :-)
SteamOS is a good thing, since it will reduce the amount of proprietary software used by many gamers. Eventually, Debian may reach the stage where SteamOS and Steam become obsolete, in which case those gamers can switch to regular Debian. However, DDs are *already* on regular Debian, so this would be a step backwards, for short-term gratification.
I don't want to deny DDs this gift, but they should be aware those bearing it may be Greeks.
The first thing that came to mind when I saw 'gratis licenses for Free Software devs' was BitKeeper, and we saw how well that turned out. Thankfully Valve make games, so if this ends up exploding then nothing important will be lost.
The link in the article points to https://lists.debian.org/debia...
The correct link is https://lists.debian.org/debia...
Not that anyone here would ever rtfa.. :)
Poo, poo Ubuntu dev didn't get late Chweesmas plesent from Valve.
A better reward would be to actually release the games slated for SteamOS on their Steam for Linux client. It's absurd to have a game that has been ported to Linux, but only that Linux over there. If I have to boot into another OS to play my games, I'll just keep alt-booting into Windows, thanks.
"If your gaming PC does not connect to the internet, I'm guessing you don't do much multiplayer..."
Not recently but no, I've done plenty of multiplayer this way. You can hook up a LAN with no WAN you know.
"That said: Steam's DRM is the least evil of them all,"
And even if that's true it's still by your own admission evil.
"The "freedom" to not care if my gigs of games are wiped out in a hard drive failure, to copy the steam directory as-is to any PC on the same architecture and being able to straight up play, and to arbitrarily delete game files if I temporarily need the space is far more important to me than the freedom to look at arbitrary code."
The first and last of these things I can do with any game I have purchased, either via a physical disk or via a persistent login/download link from e.g. shrapnel. The middle one is the only one that is at all unique and it doesnt seem important at all in context of the DRM.
"This is a "choose your battles" scenario. Either 1) let Valve attract more people to Debian for desktop use. They'll play their closed source games when bored, and use the open source productivity software to get actual work done. Or, 2) fight them on this, they take their ball and go home, and the people they would have attracted continue to regard the FOSS movement as a bunch of loons that like to look gift horses in the mouth."
I think that is a false dichotomy. Of course Valve is welcome to use Debian here if they wish. It's Free Software. I never objected to them using it. I object to bullshit pronouncements about how the Free Software community somehow is or should be grateful to Valve for this, as if they were doing us a favor. This is no favor. Valve is simply doing what is best for their business *as they should be doing* but that is not something we should praise or be impressed with, that is just normal business.
And if "attracting more people" is cause for diluting the mission of Debian then it will be a bad, not a good thing. The ifs in the previous sentence will be optimised out by any decent compiler.
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Friends don't let friends enable ecmascript.
So this is basically about Valve stacking the Debian voting process?
Ps - a LOT of what I mentioned above are tasks a non-programmer or newbie programmer can help with
PS - I tuned out somewhere in the middle of your list, and fell asleep. A non-programmer has no idea how to even do most of that stuff, anyway.
"You're right," Fisheye says. "I should have set it on 'whip' or 'chop.'"
Debian is shit compared to other Distros that aren't Debian-based.
I have better luck gaming under Gentoo than any Debian-based flavor of Linux OSes.
Still waiting on Serviscope_minor to wake up to fucking reality and realize that Jessica Price isn't going to fuck him.
I'm not an Ubuntu Dev. I have standards. Ubuntu does not.
But you're just an ignorant assumptive piece of shit, looking at your comment history.
Still waiting on Serviscope_minor to wake up to fucking reality and realize that Jessica Price isn't going to fuck him.
It will corrupt the community... why can't you see that? Debian Developers have voting rights in a democratic community, and Valve is buying votes just the same as if paper bags were being passed under desks. Perhaps that's not Valves intention, but if they don't own Debian they will when all the extra gamer/developers sign up for Debian Developer status to get their kickbacks.
...even if they don't intend it that way. New developers will sign up to get their free candy stacking the democratic Debian process.
Slash which is Slashdot's backend system, is actually open source and licensed under gplv2.
I've ran Steam in OpenSUSE and do so in Fedora.
I know their OS is based on Debian but I don't really see why I should use their OS. I assume popular performance tweaks are likely to show up in other distributions too.
I don't see what's all that special with Debian as far as Linux + GNU + extras development go.
The codecs (etc) are avoided because Debian doesn't want to deal with liability or licences. Steam doesn't present that particular problem. The intellectual property owner is actively contributing the software.
Yes, it's non-free, and it needs to be in the appropriate repo. But this isn't a "destroy the project, bring on the wrath of **** **, and sue everybody into oblivion" level of non-free.
(Ubuntu, on the other hand, wants more than just to be a better Debian. They've got a specific vision of where Linux ought to go, and they're trying to push into new territory. They just liked Debian as a starting point, that's all.)
I won't join Slashcott. OTOH, If Beta goes live, I just won't be back until it's fixed. Sorry Dice.
I find your lack of humor disturbing.
Okay, let me make up for poking fun of you by providing some constructive criticism of your original comment.
You know, 98% of stories on Slashdot -or stuff I read in practically any news source, for that matter- doesn't really apply to me and has no impact on my life. I think this is a pretty obvious thing. Yet it doesn't diminish the wish and the value of staying informed about things, because it's good not to be an ignorant, assumptive piece of shit about stuff.
Funny that I have to explain this to you, but there it is.
If your gaming PC does not connect to the internet, I'm guessing you don't do much multiplayer...
I don't see how not.
Step 1: Connect PC's HDMI, DVI, or VGA output to the HDMI or VGA input of a television.
Step 2: If DVI or VGA was used, connect PC's output to the audio input of a television or stereo system.
Step 3: Connect two to four wired Xbox 360 controllers, an Xbox 360 PC wireless receiver, or other USB game controllers to the PC.
Step 4: Start game and choose single-screen multiplayer mode.
If you don't agree with a game's licensing, etc, you will never be forced to use it.
I was forced to use specific computer games in school, many of them published by MECC.
... seems like paying it backwards, to me. Just sayin'.
is it handing paper bags under a desk when you are telling everybody far and wide "we like debian, Here developers have some games!"?
Is it bad when the rotary club gives the mayor a golden cane for his work getting the city and the rotary club working together to build a Tutoring center? Rewards are not bad when they are open.
If Steam for Linux becomes popular, maybe more users will use Linux and it will then attract malware programmers.
Let's hope we won't have a new array Debian-powered botnets.
The first and last of these things I can do with any game I have purchased, either via a physical disk or via a persistent login/download link from e.g. shrapnel. The middle one is the only one that is at all unique and it doesnt seem important at all in context of the DRM.
Disk is useless if lost, damaged, or 1000 miles away in a cabinet while you're on a business trip. The middle one is very useful if you want to play games on a PC in a computer lab or library. Back in my college days, being able to plug an external drive into a lab PC and play counterstrike was quite handy for killing time between classes. And the steam DRM is basically: it needs to phone home about once a month. So once a month it uses about 2 megabytes of bandwidth for DRM, big friggin deal. It's akin to putting a velvet rope up to keep people from walking into unauthorized areas.
I object to bullshit pronouncements about how the Free Software community somehow is or should be grateful to Valve for this, as if they were doing us a favor.
When you put it that way (key being Free Software community) I do agree. However, as a member of the Linux community, I am grateful, because gaming is the *LAST* thing keeping Windows on my primary desktop. If Steam's entire catalog could run natively on Linux, I would only need windows for two games. And at that point, it becomes time-effective for me to investigate getting wine to work.
And if "attracting more people" is cause for diluting the mission of Debian then it will be a bad, not a good thing. The ifs in the previous sentence will be optimised out by any decent compiler.
I don't see how what Valve is doing is diluting the mission of Debian at all, at least not any more than the existence of the non-free repository. A key reason Debian is well known in the Linux community is because whatever people want/need to use can be easily used. What makes them special compared to most others is that Debian defaults to a free configuration. If Debian *didn't* play ball with binary blob distributors, I suspect it would be just as well known as these distros.
I think we'll have to agree to disagree here... my line of thinking falls closer to the "Open Source Software" camp than the "Free Software" camp...
"Back in my college days, being able to plug an external drive into a lab PC and play counterstrike was quite handy for killing time between classes."
But I have done that myself on a number of occasions. No STEAM needed.
"And the steam DRM is basically: it needs to phone home about once a month. So once a month it uses about 2 megabytes of bandwidth for DRM, big friggin deal."
It's sending 2 megabytes a month, I have no way of knowing exactly what is in that 2 megabytes, I cannot audit it, I cannot even look at the code (let alone modify it, not even a one-line edit so it will link with my kernel) and if I prevent this snitch from making it's call I will be deprived of the quiet enjoyment of a product I have bought and paid for, and to you this is no big deal?
Your definition of a big deal and mine appear to have parted ways a LONG ways back. To me that is a VERY big deal. If any company I did business with proposed a system like that to me they would be lucky to get one brief chance to back straight down and apologize before I cut all ties, permanently, and call up my lawyer to suss out our options for a lawsuit.
"I don't see how what Valve is doing is diluting the mission of Debian at all"
Debian's mission is, to boil it down just a little, to be the exact opposite of DRM. You still dont understand how bringing in new people that think STEAM DRM is just wonderful could compromise that mission?
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Friends don't let friends enable ecmascript.
Since you seem to have a habit of cutting out half my comments to distort their meaning, and failing to address those parts which you cut out, I can only assume you are incapable of a proper debate. I bid you adieu...
looks like your the one scared to debate. you realized what you said made 0 sense and contradicts everything and tried to flip the script on him. now sir, I bid u a go fuck yourself
edit: according to the followup on debian-devel DMs are in despite the original announcement only mentioning DDs.
note: i'm known as plugwash most places but i screwd up registering that here somehow in the past and now can't register
I believe you typically also have to have been a DM (Debian Maintainer) for at least 6 months prior.
It's possible to become a DD without being a DM first. Of course you will have to demonstrate significant contributions to Debian in some other way.
note: i'm known as plugwash most places but i screwd up registering that here somehow in the past and now can't register