Slashdot Mirror

← Back to Stories (view on slashdot.org)

California Students, Parents Sue Over Teacher Firing, Tenure Rules

Posted by timothy on from the good-work-if-you-can-get-it dept.

The L.A. Times reports that a group of students and parents, fed up with what they see as overarching job security in California schools, are suing in the hopes of making harder for poor teachers to stay on the books. From the article: "The lawsuit, filed by the nonprofit, advocacy group Students Matter, contends that these education laws are a violation of the Constitution's equal protection guarantee because they do not ensure that all students have access to an adequate education. Vergara versus California, filed on behalf of nine students and their families, seeks to revamp a dismissal process that the plaintiffs say is too costly and time consuming, lengthen the time it takes for instructors to gain tenure and dismantle the 'last hired, first fired' policies that fail to consider teacher effectiveness. The lawsuit aims to protect the rights of students, teachers and school districts against a "gross disparity" in educational opportunity, lawyers for the plaintiffs said." Perhaps related.

11 of 399 comments (clear)

  1. Dangerous... by broken_chaos · · Score: 5, Insightful

    While in rare cases job security is a problematic issue due to incompetence (or worse, in extreme cases), stripping away job security typically creates even more, worse problems in the long term with an even faster race-to-the-bottom. If this succeeds, they could find themselves, instead, fighting against the school board hiring cheap, less-competent or less-experienced teachers because they can get rid of the expensive, experienced ones quickly and easily.

    Also, teachers are, in most places, unionized (the article doesn't seem to mention if California teachers are or not). Go against the union in such a drastic manner and you may find yourself with a widespread strike on your hands.

    1. Re:Dangerous... by ShanghaiBill · · Score: 5, Insightful

      While in rare cases job security is a problematic issue due to incompetence

      It is NOT rare. 90% of teachers are competent and conscientious. But about 1 in 10 needs to go, and 1 in 10 is not "rare". Nearly every kid will have one or more incompetent teachers during K-12. Both of my kids have had bad teachers. My daughters 7th grade science teacher spoke English so poorly that the kids could not understand her. So she assigned each student a chapter to teach. For the rest of the semester they taught each other, while the teacher sat in the back of the room and watched Youtube videos. Many parents complained about the situation, but that was several years ago, and she is still "teaching". It is absurd that someone like that continues to be employed at taxpayer expense.

      There was a recent report that estimated that a bad teacher can cause $250k/year in economic damage when you consider the lost future earning potential of the ill educated students.

    2. Re:Dangerous... by codepigeon · · Score: 5, Insightful

      "Second of all, all you parents in the room .... pointless stereotyping and rage ...."

      I am a parent in this room. My son is nothing like that. I would say that I don't know any of the kids in his school are like you describe. Those stereotype that people like to throw around are just bullshit. They are probably the same things people said about you when you were in school; and its just as invalid now, as it was then.

      What IS different know, is a concerted 'attack?' on PUBLIC school teachers. I am not sure why. My sister is a third grade teacher, I assume she does a good job. She is however, dirt poor because of low pay and still ends up buying her own room supplies. I am not sure why anyone would want to be a public school teacher these days. Maybe thats the goal.

      Why don't you look in the mirror and ask yourself why you like to think and write about whore school girls in see through leggings with no underwear.

    3. Re:Dangerous... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Insightful

      Teacher here. Sure, in theory I have a couple of months off in the summer. BUT, the other 9.5 months a year, I routinely work 12 or more hours a day for 5 days a week plus at least another 5 to 8 hours on the weekend. Which is 65 hours a week minimum, not including the extra busy times (parent-teacher conferences, state testing times, finals, etc.) or the extra-curricular activities.

      This week, outside of 'work' hours, I will coach soccer practice a couple of times plus coaching at a soccer game. I will attend a basketball game to further support my students. I will take paperwork home so that I can help students with their homework during school hours, instead. I will attend three meetings and chair a fourth. If the need arises, I will call students' parents. Additionally, I will eat my lunch standing up while supervising the students' lunch time. (Also this week, but not typical, I will chaperon a dance on Saturday evening.) All of this is in addition to my 'job' of teaching the students.

      Why would there be a shortage of teachers? Because not everyone can handle 6 hours a day being *the only adult* in a room with 20 to 30 (or more) teenagers? Not just 'handle' of course, but actually work hard to help those teenagers, even when they are too immature to understand that they need help, and even when they actively fight against your help? Who could pass up a job like this?

  2. Tenure? by benjfowler · · Score: 5, Insightful

    Sorry, did I read that correctly?

    Tenure? In state-funded primary and secondary schools? In a country as brutally meritocratic as the US?

    Tenure is meant to promote academic freedom and allow brilliant scientists with a proven track record to express potentially unpopular idea.

    It's not meant as lifelong guaranteed employment for people who can't cut it in the real world.

    Any idea that seniority should come ahead of ability is fucking bullshit anywhere, but especially when educating our youth. Japan does this, and it's a fucking basketcase. We are better than that.

    1. Re:Tenure? by dkleinsc · · Score: 5, Interesting

      Tenure? In state-funded primary and secondary schools? In a country as brutally meritocratic as the US?

      Well, let me tell you of a couple of situations in my hometown in which tenure saved teachers' job.

      The first teacher in question taught history, and one of his elective courses was focused on radical protest movements from 1950-1975. The thing was that many conservative elements in town wanted the course to not exist, or at the very least state quite clearly that all the radical protest movements were because of spies from the USSR. They had the ear of the dyed-in-wool conservative mayor, who in this city's structure was also the chair of the school board. They tried several tactics to fire him, including trying to convince the union to accept some nice cash benefits if they allowed a provision in the contract to create a process for firing teachers that were presenting content "detrimental to the community" or similar nonsense. The teacher continued to teach until his retirement, which allowed students to learn about that period in US history in a way that neither their textbooks nor their parents were really showing them.

      The second teacher in question was the advisor of the award-winning school paper. Said award-winning school paper did some investigative journalism and discovered some not-nice things about an assistant superintendent, which they duly published. The assistant superintendent reacted by driving to the school, barging into the paper office, and almost physically threatening the student editor who happened to be there at the time. The paper of course duly reported on this incident in their next issue, so the assistant superintendent went to the advisor and demanded that the advisor give the entire editorial board suspensions for insubordination or some-such. The advisor refused, so the assistant superintendent immediately tried to get him fired.

      So yes, tenure can and does matter, even for primary and secondary teachers.

      --
      I am officially gone from /. Long live http://www.soylentnews.com/
  3. Re:Tenure is BS by Polo · · Score: 5, Insightful

    I thought tenure was a way to keep administrators from messing with academic freedom. Without it teachers would "follow the party line" and never research or teach anything controversial.

  4. Biased Idea From Onset by Frosty+Piss · · Score: 5, Insightful

    It's easy to talk of "bad teachers" and say that unions keep them employed. But the truth is that "bad teachers" are the minority. Unions keep more "good teachers" employed at a livable wage than "bad teachers".

    It is normal that the minority get the spotlight, just as it is normal that the Chihuahua barks the loudest.

    --
    If you want news from today, you have to come back tomorrow.
  5. Re:This is a scam by Jah-Wren+Ryel · · Score: 5, Informative

    Interestingly, Obama always supported the all-powerful teachers union in Chicago, who managed to get working conditions so good for their members that the schools had to cut the number of teaching days to afford those gold-plated teachers.

    Interestingly, that seems to be completely made up.

    In 2012 there were 170 teaching days for elementary school teachers. After the strike and contract negotiations there were 180 teaching days in 2013. High school teachers also had a 10 day increase. In both cases, the length of the work day also increased (see the same link as before).

    --
    When information is power, privacy is freedom.
  6. Re:This is a scam by Electricity+Likes+Me · · Score: 5, Insightful

    Except professors don't teach at high schools, which is what this seems to be about.

    And probably more to the point, the bigger problem is no one can agree on what a bad teacher is to be measured by beyond anecdotes. But I strongly suspect its "shouldn't have given my child a bad grade!"

  7. Re:This is a scam by winwar · · Score: 5, Interesting

    There is no teacher shortage.

    When you hear that schools are having a difficult time getting teachers, that indicates that the school/district/state is an awful place to work.

    It's not unusual for there to be five applicants for every science position. There could be 30 for an English position. It's even worse for primary education. The only place there might be a shortage is in Special Education.