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Map of Publicly-Funded Creationism Teaching

Capt.Albatross writes "At Slate, Chris Kirk presents a map of schools in the USA that both receive public funding and teach creationism. It also shows public schools in those states where they are allowed to teach creationism (without necessarily implying that creationism is taught in all public schools of those states). There is a brief outline of the regulations in those states where this occurs, but the amounts involved are not discussed."

24 of 544 comments (clear)

  1. Texas Barely Registers by lgw · · Score: 4, Interesting

    For all the trash that gets talked about Texas in this regard, it barely registers here, and only for some sort of "Responsive Ed charter school" that a Texan might explain better - sounds like it's not the normal school system.

    Louisiana and Tennessee OTOH - ouch!

    --
    Socialism: a lie told by totalitarians and believed by fools.
    1. Re:Texas Barely Registers by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 4, Informative

      To be fair, what the image is showing is deceptive. Both states you mention have "teach the controversy" laws that apply to Public Schools, while Texas is showing the specific charter schools.

    2. Re:Texas Barely Registers by Mashiki · · Score: 5, Interesting

      What I find interesting on the map is the lack of "other religious" institutions that also support the ideology. They don't list muslim schools in VA, MD, or DC, or those in TN, or WI(many of which get public funding or falls under vouchers. But they list the various christian denominations...odd...how very odd. They don't list the Jewish schools either.

      --
      Om, nomnomnom...
    3. Re:Texas Barely Registers by mythosaz · · Score: 4, Insightful

      If there's a map of public schools with forced Muslim or Jewish teachings, please share it.

    4. Re:Texas Barely Registers by the+gnat · · Score: 5, Insightful

      Apparently you've never run across a your average non-westernized muslim(or standard conservative muslims), they're more than happy to shove their opinions down your throat. While doing so, they'll also demand that you directly accommodate them.

      Most Americans I know could say the same thing about the average fundamentalist Christian. God knows I (an unrepentant atheist and blasphemer) wouldn't want to live in any majority-Muslim country, but in the US, the only people campaigning to have religion taught in biology class are Christians.

    5. Re:Texas Barely Registers by Reverand+Dave · · Score: 5, Insightful

      I can count on 0 fingers the number of times that muslim teachings and jewish teachings have directly taken a shit on my liberties in the US, with the exception of a few South Park episodes. However I can't begin the count the number of times that ridiculous xian bullshit has ruined my day. I think the operative term in the AC's post was "in America." Muslims don't control enough of the population of affect real change in the US and the jews are happy to keep it relatively quiet, however miss Bobbie Sue from Wichita is fucking things up for everyone daily with her religious bullshit, especially in red states. I think that was the point the AC was trying to make.

      Non-westernized muslims are fairly rare here in the US.

      --
      I got here through a series of tubes
    6. Re:Texas Barely Registers by iluvcapra · · Score: 5, Insightful

      From your first link:

      The textbook, called simply “World History,” contains a 32-page chapter fondly devoted to “Muslim Civilizations.” Sections include descriptions of the Koran, the growth of the Muslim empire and the Five Pillars of Islam.

      What's your problem? There were Muslim civilizations, the several successive caliphates radically changed the middle east over a millennium etc.

      Your SFGate article is over 5 years old, one of those "Community content" articles than isn't written by a reporter or checked by an editor -- the author was a regular NewsBusters contributor and the article is filled with a bunch of links to WorldNetDaily. So yes, "FAUX news... DISMISS" is probably in order.

      Teaching children that Islam exists, that its tenets are X, Y and Z, and that Muslim people actually participate in American society without murdering anybody(!) would probably be considered acceptable public school curriculum in most places. I can find no credible evidence of "indoctrination" or forced religious observance in your links, as opposed to teaching Biblical Creation, which nobody debates is happening and is a forced religious observance.

      --
      Don't blame me, I voted for Baltar.
    7. Re:Texas Barely Registers by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 4, Insightful

      As a gay person, I can't count (without resorting to computer assistance) the number of days that the Christian domination of American politics has prevented me from receiving equal treatment under the law.

    8. Re:Texas Barely Registers by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Insightful

      I lived in the middle east, 6 or 7 years, and I have no fucking idea what you are talking about. The closest anyone ever got to that was someone trying to convince me not to drink beer - who also happened to be someone who drank beer. You could get the kind of impassioned plea off any 'reformed' alcoholic. Not only did most Muslims I met bend over backwards to make me feel welcome, I've never so much as had a conversation about religion. Do you know what most people think about religion? They don't give a flying fuck about it, nor do they even want to, as long as you aren't an asshole. It's something only shitheads make into an issue, and they are relatively easy to spot, so in an international effort of solidarity, we tolerate the shitheads, and humour them collectively, hoping that they will eventually go away.

    9. Re:Texas Barely Registers by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 4, Interesting

      Employment protection (notable lack of people getting fired for being straight around here, oddly enough), marriage, etc.

      But yes, of course, you're right, some days my car brakes down and that is worse for the given day than systematic discrimination. I had a burst pipe in my house recently, and that was fucking awful! But such occurrences are fairly uncommon, and the real point was that there are more days that have been ruined by Christan dominion than I can readily count. I know it's shocking that the worst part of your day for most days could be "society massively and systematically discriminates against me" -- I don't even particularly blame you for thinking that way. You're just another person who has never actually been forced to think about being part of a discriminated-against minority, and so you naturally assume that issues like "will I ever be able to get married (nowadays: in my home state)?" or "will I ever be able to come out to my coworkers without worrying that I'll be fired for who I am, rather than continually coming up with reasons for why I'm not interested in a blind date with that girl they know who would be a 'perfect match' for me?" are trivial background noise, rather than real issues that can and sometimes do keep me awake at night.

      And of course that's without even mentioning the particularly horrid (but thankfully decreasingly common) instances where homosexuality leads to assault or murder.

    10. Re:Texas Barely Registers by Guppy06 · · Score: 5, Informative

      Sola scriptura , upon which Creationism generally relies, is a decidedly Western, Protestant idea. Other Christian denominations and other Mosaic faiths have additional sacred traditions they rely upon that prevent scripture from being the exclusive source of absolute truth, from being interpreted completely literally, or a combination of the two.

      But if you can cite examples of public funds being used to teach other faiths' creation myths as scientific fact in the Untied States, please feel free to post them.

    11. Re: Texas Barely Registers by Gordo_1 · · Score: 4, Insightful

      So to be an upstanding Atheist in your world, one must equally trash all religions all the time, regardless of the issue or region?

      The issue here is that Christian fundamentalists have commandeered science curricula in publicly-funded schools to teach creationism. If we were talking about cartoonists in Norway caricaturing Mohammed and still bashing Christians, then you'd have an actual point.

      Creationism is a concept, I might add, that both Judaism and Islam are proponents of, however, neither Jewish nor Muslim groups or schools are pushing creationist content to children in publicly-funded schools anywhere in this country (USA). It's Christian fundamentalists that are overstepping their bounds. Hence the desire to single them out.

      Furthermore, Christians are the majority in this country and have enjoyed an historically unequal sway on government and policy, so you damn well better accept the fact that Christians will take more heat when overstepping their bounds as it affects more people.

    12. Re:Texas Barely Registers by Qzukk · · Score: 5, Insightful

      Is your day that easy to ruin?

      Is it Sunday?

      Can I buy a beer?

      Well damn, my day's shot.

      --
      If I have been able to see further than others, it is because I bought a pair of binoculars.
    13. Re:Texas Barely Registers by rahvin112 · · Score: 5, Insightful

      I went to school in the 70's using 1950 textbooks. We had a chapter in history covering Islam and the 5 pillars of Islam and various cultural aspects of Arab and Islamic culture. It covered nearly everything you listed. Big deal. It's history, should we deny Islam even exists?

      Should we refuse to teach our children about cultures and societies outside European history? Just because you're a bigot and hate Islam doesn't mean children don't deserve to know about history including that other cultures and religions exist. Here's how you need to think about it in your bigoted language, if you don't teach kids about Islam and it's history they might get converted later because they know nothing about the religion and have no basis to evaluate it's claims.

      As someone that grew up in the 70's I can say with absolute certainty that religion in classrooms, creationism in particular isn't about protecting the children of those who believe in that silliness, it about trying to convert other peoples kids to their way of thinking. This whole drive to put young earth creationism into the school system is all about proselytizing other peoples kids and it always has been. It's so transparent it's not even funny because more than half the people campaigning for it home teach their kids to try to avoid them learning anything about the world that might test their beliefs. Funniest part about it is that sheltering their children in such a manner more often than not backfires horribly when those kids turn away from religion after they realize they've been lied to. Those parents that it backfires on inevitably end up convincing themselves that they need to shelter someone elses kids (gotta save them) even more than they did their own children and they become the principle campaigners for BS like intelligent design. It's all a perfect example of how to teach kids exactly the opposite of what they want and it's beautiful irony when their kids turn their backs on religion entirely as a result of directly misleading them about science.

  2. Map by rossdee · · Score: 5, Funny

    on presumably a flat earth

  3. Re:Good by ScottCooperDotNet · · Score: 5, Funny

    More what?
    Stoning of adulterers?
    Slavery?
    Animal sacrifice?
    Other things Bronze Age religion requires?

    If Christ turns water into wine, does the Anti-Christ turn wine into water?

  4. Re:Land of the dumb, home of the uninformed by fuzzyfuzzyfungus · · Score: 5, Insightful

    Unfortunately, the US's first major "nation building" failure might be said to have occurred after the civil war... We defeated the insurgency; but never really managed to rebuild a functional society in the southern provinces. If subsequent events are any guide, we may just suck at dealing with religious zealots with shitty human rights records.

  5. Re:here we go again by NoKaOi · · Score: 5, Insightful

    Just can't let the 'I hate Christians' thing go can you?

    It's not a "I hate Christians" thing. It's a "I hate dishonesty" thing. If you're teaching something in a class that claims to be a science class, then you are supposed to be teaching the scientific method (the core of "science") and things that have been learned and proven using the scientific method. Instead, if you are teaching creationism, you are not only teaching something that does not stand up to the scientific method, but you are also teaching that things that have been very well proven using the scientific method are wrong. This is dishonest. If you want to teach creationism or any other aspect of any other religion, that's great, just be sure to label the class "theology" and not something related to science.

    How would you feel if, instead of something that Christians came up with, they were teaching Scientology as if it were fact? Do you think teaching that humans on earth came from the evil lord Xenu belongs in a science class? Regardless of which aspects of which religions are right or wrong, it belongs in a theology class, not a science class. Or, to make another analogy, should a school be teaching about the rise and fall of the Roman Empire in a math class? Regardless of whether what they're teaching is right or wrong, that topic belongs in a history class, not a math class.

  6. Re:Good by rokstar · · Score: 5, Funny

    does the Anti-Christ turn wine into water?

    No but my liver does. Always knew the damn thing was evil.

  7. A lot worse than it seems by Overzeetop · · Score: 5, Insightful

    Nearly half of all Americans believe that humans were placed on earth in their current form, magically by the hand of God Himself, with no evolutionary changes or modifications every occurring. And the number is rising.

    http://www.gallup.com/poll/218...

    Do you want to know what brings about the biblical apocalypse? Ignorance of the natural world in which we live. Buckle your seatbelts, because the ignorant are starting to drive this bus we call civilization, and the last stop is not utopia.

    --
    Is it just my observation, or are there way too many stupid people in the world?
  8. Re:Good by MightyMartian · · Score: 5, Insightful

    Throwing invalid and in many cases demonstrably false claims at students who don't have the background to see the invalidity is ludicrous. I mean, why single science out? Why not teach Holocaust denial in history class? After all, wouldn't that challenge students too? Perhaps you could also teach 2+2=5 and French verb conjugation in English class.

    Schools are supposed to teach science, like any other subject, to a reasonable degree of accuracy. Teaching students that somehow just because someone calls some nonsense claim a "theory" is not teaching at all.

    --
    The world's burning. Moped Jesus spotted on I50. Details at 11.
  9. Re:Theory of evolution does need to be challenged by dskoll · · Score: 5, Insightful

    There's actually more logical evidence and less holes in the theory at the universe is a giant simulation.

    Righto, matey. GIve me some testable predictions of your Simulation theory.

    Evolution? We predict that organisms will change in response to changing conditions and we have observed it in action with the rise of antibiotic-resistant bacteria. Prediction followed by confirmation.

    Your turn.

  10. Re:let's analyze this by jader3rd · · Score: 5, Informative

    Evolutionists want to teach evolution because they don't like religion.

    No, that's wrong. Evolutionists want evolution taught because it is the best explanation was have for observed and verified facts.

  11. Re:here we go again by the+gnat · · Score: 5, Insightful

    people still pick up a fossil and say "nope, this must be the sole explanation."

    No, they pick up a fossil and say "this must be the sole explanation that does not rely on introducing multiple additional non-testable hypotheses". I know you're upset that scientists won't simply wave their hands and say "God did it" in response to anything we don't understand, but that's not really how the scientific method works. Technically, we haven't actually proven that the entire universe isn't actually the complex masturbatory fantasy of a pimply 13-year-old superintelligent extradimensional being, but we don't feel guilty about discounting that explanation when we're trying to figure out how modern life forms originated. If we didn't apply this parsimonious approach to scientific investigation, we'd still be using candles and horses and enjoying a 25% infant mortality rate.