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Journal of Cosmology Contributor Sues NASA To Investigate Mars "Donut"

An anonymous reader writes "Rhawn Joseph, a self-described astrobiologist involved with the infamous Journal of Cosmology, is suing NASA, demanding 100 high-resolution photos and 24 micrographs be taken of the 'donut' rock that recently appeared in front of the Opportunity rover on Mars, on the basis that it is a living organism. The remarkable full text of the complaint, which cites NASA's mineralogical analysis of the rock as evidence against it being a rock, is available to read at Popular Science." Really, the lawsuit is worth a read.

31 of 140 comments (clear)

  1. Yawn... by MightyMartian · · Score: 3, Informative

    Translation: Some attention whoring quack is going to waste taxpayer money and NASA time to no good end.

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    1. Re:Yawn... by Anne_Nonymous · · Score: 3, Funny

      Yeah, he ought to be suing those incompetents down in continuity.

  2. Re:Very funny. by techsoldaten · · Score: 2

    This reminds me of the time Julia Childs sued Neil Armstrong because he bring back samples of the strain of cheese composing the moon.

  3. whoa! by Rich_Lather · · Score: 2

    Dude, that's a shroom!

  4. Thats no rock by drakesword · · Score: 5, Funny

    its the arm off of one of my kerbals

    1. Re:Thats no rock by JeanCroix · · Score: 5, Interesting

      I just figured that one of the rover's greebles fell off...

  5. Re:Very funny. by ShanghaiBill · · Score: 4, Funny

    Very funny, this makes my day on /.

    You won't be laughing when this guy wins his lawsuit, and we all find out that this "rock" is a piece of styrofoam knocked loose from one of the props in the back lot of Disney Studios. John Carter of Mars was filmed to provide a cover story for the Martian landscape used for the faked rover landings. There is no other plausible explanation for that movie.

  6. Re:Not like they're in a hurry by Sarten-X · · Score: 4, Informative

    The rover has a finite life until it fails. The donut has already been examined enough for NASA to think it's boring, and there are far more interesting goals further ahead that we'd like to reach before the wheels fall off, the power supply dies, or the sensors get too dusty to function.

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  7. Re:I See Nothing!!! by Oligonicella · · Score: 2

    Kind of the entire point of having a little robot on Mars is to gander at each and every "interesting" thing they roll up to.

    Rover isn't a full blown laboratory, it's a slightly smarter than dumb camera. It will die. Catalog all the interesting things you see before it does so, then send another robot tailored to inspect instead of find.

  8. The undersides of rocks... by GPS+Pilot · · Score: 3, Insightful

    Dr. Squyres says that if this object has been recently flipped over, "we are seeing the surface, the underside of a rock, that hasn't seen the Martian atmosphere for perhaps billions of years."

    Trouble is, unless he's proposing that the underside of this rock was somehow vacuum-sealed against atmospheric influence, it has very much been exposed to the gases of the Martian atmosphere.

    The undersides of rocks experience a different environment due to less exposure to wind erosion and the UV component of sunlight. But as far as being exposed to the gases that make up the atmosphere, the undersides are about as exposed at the topsides.

    Most if not all of the minerals observed on Mars have been seen before, on Earth. Can you think of a terrestrial example of a rock whose underside has a significantly different chemical composition than its topside? I can't.

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    1. Re:The undersides of rocks... by wile_e_wonka · · Score: 2

      Maybe we're looking at the "bottom" of the rock. When I look at the pictures, I don't see any indication that the rock was dug in the ground where is currently sits. It looks to me more like it blew or fell into its current position (perhaps the surface of mars just got pelted by a meteor or a secret North Korean rover landing or something and knocked that rock from its prior position). Someone else said "Just look at the two pictures. The first has a shape outlined in darker 'dirt' in the area where the object appeared - a shape that is the same shape as the object." I disagree, you can see that outline sitting underneath this rock, offset a bit, like this rock just fell into place.

      So, with all of the above, for all we know that is presently the top of the rock might have been the bottom of the rock for 5 million years. Or it might have broken off of a larger rock.

      Worth investigating to a degree? Yes. Worth assuming that an Martian put the rock there as a joke? No.

  9. A waste of time, really? by GPS+Pilot · · Score: 2

    Dr. Squyres and his team have already chosen to spend lots of time and effort investigating this object.

    How would releasing this data to the public, through existing channels that have already conveyed thousands of photos to the public, be a waste of NASA's time?

    NASA has already acknowledged that this is "a very special rock, with rare properties." Therefore, shouldn't it, at a matter of course, release more data about this rock than it releases about the average Mars rock?

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    That that is is that that that that is not is not.
    1. Re:A waste of time, really? by Bill_the_Engineer · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Rhawn Joeseph is trying to bully NASA into giving him access to the science data without having to wait for the mission scientists to publish their findings. There are procedures in place and Rhawn will just have to wait like everyone else.

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    2. Re:A waste of time, really? by Dcnjoe60 · · Score: 2

      Dr. Squyres and his team have already chosen to spend lots of time and effort investigating this object.

      How would releasing this data to the public, through existing channels that have already conveyed thousands of photos to the public, be a waste of NASA's time?

      NASA has already acknowledged that this is "a very special rock, with rare properties." Therefore, shouldn't it, at a matter of course, release more data about this rock than it releases about the average Mars rock?

      NASA should comply, thus saving the legal fees, right after he pays the share of the cost to obtain the information he is requesting. The Freedom of Information Act doesn't mean the government foots the bill for the requested info.

    3. Re:A waste of time, really? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Just from the depths of my armchair: perhaps because the data comes in formats that are completely useless to the public, and it takes time for NASA to decompress/deconvert/decrypt/convolve/whatever them? Maybe they can do their own analysis with the data in a raw-ish format, but to give us the real numbers and sort out the metadata flags that say "This sensor is currently busted" takes more time?

    4. Re:A waste of time, really? by Dcnjoe60 · · Score: 3, Insightful

      Why are those procedures in place? It's public data, why can't the public see it as soon as NASA gets it?

      The data is public data and anybody is free to intercept the 1s and 0s streaming back from Mars. OTOH, converting those 1s and 0s to images is costly and time consuming. Expediting the process is even more costly and time consuming and means either additional staff will be needed or people will be pulled off of other tasks.

      So the question is whether or not the access to this information is more important than whatever information will be delayed by diverting resources to obtain it more quickly? The answer depends on whether you want this piece of information or you are still in the queue.

    5. Re:A waste of time, really? by DerekLyons · · Score: 4, Insightful

      As a sop to the scientists who, as the public's proxy, have spent years or decades working on the instrument that gathered the data. They took the risk to their careers, and as member of the public I have no problem with giving them first crack at reaping the rewards.

    6. Re:A waste of time, really? by icebike · · Score: 3, Insightful

      Costly and time consuming?

      Really, you are going with that?

      The 90 day mission has stretched to 10 years. They somehow found money to keep these guys employed all those years, they are on the payroll till the rover dies.

      What other random thing in the drive-able vicinity is likely to be MORE interesting? This Rover has accomplished just about all it can possibly do with its worn out tools, aging batteries, lame wheels, etc. There is probably nothing more interesting than this rock, and spending the effort (which surely they must be very well practiced and efficient at, considering the ten years they have had to perfect their craft) to evaluate it and release the data is no big deal.

      You can go to the JPL site and search all the photos, so its not like they don't have more to give.

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    7. Re:A waste of time, really? by icebike · · Score: 3, Informative

      They have been imaging the thing for days. So apparently they have plenty of time and money:

      http://marsrover.nasa.gov/gall...

      http://marsrover.nasa.gov/gall...

      http://marsrover.nasa.gov/gall...

      http://marsrover.nasa.gov/gall...

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    8. Re:A waste of time, really? by meerling · · Score: 2

      They don't have to release the info when he wants it, assuming they have it in the first place. Remember, he's not asking for the release of photos they already have, he's demanding they take a 100 new high res closeup images following his instructions, and 24 microscopic images, also as per his instructions.

      The Freedom of Information Act has nothing to do with his demands, it only covers information the government has, not stuff that hasn't even been done.

      He's not a NASA administrator, supervisor, project lead, project member, or any other kind of NASA employee of any kind. He has the same authority to demand these things as any other American citizen, zero.

      That rock is interesting and unique, but then again, so is every other rock they check out. Since it has wildly different mineral levels than most of the others, it would be very interesting, at least for geologists & mineralogists, to have a more detailed examination of that rock, but whether or not it will happen depends on the limited resources they have available, and if it shoots to the top of the priority list. There are a lot of things there that the scientists on the team are jonesing to check out.

      Is it life? Um, no. That's not an absolute, but the probability of that rock being a life form is less than you winning the lottery and getting hit by lightning.
      Does Mars have life? Maybe. Of course there's also the chance that Mars had life, but it's all extinct now. Sure, a probe might find it, but they are not well equipped to find or analyse that kind of thing. At this current time, it would be a task optimally performed by a human on Mars with appropriate tools. Skilled humans are very effective, capable of dealing with unknown situations, and not crippled by a 30 minutes time delay with every instruction. Actual time varies depending on orbital positions of both Mars and Earth. This is also assuming 2 way communication, sending instruction, receiving reply that instruction was received and possibly resultant data.

    9. Re:A waste of time, really? by DerekLyons · · Score: 2

      Yeah, working for NASA and JPL ten years on a 90 day mission has a lot of risk to their careers. Really? Nobody is "risking their careers" working on the single most prestigious off-world project in existence.

      You should read some of the books written by the scientist's on the MER (Spirit/Opportunity) and Curiosity rovers - for some of them it was twenty or thirty years of working on instruments that never flew before they finally got an instrument on a flight. And then, after working for years on a flight instrument, there's the non trivial chance the flight will fail outright and never reach or function on the surface. Even if does reach the surface, there's the non zero risk of a failure ending the mission early (as nearly happened to Spirit). Even without a mission ending failure, there's also the chance of one that affects the instrument in one way or another. Etc... etc...

      So maybe 'risk their career' wasn't quite the right way of expressing the coin they pay, but it's foolish to assume that even if the mission succeeds they've risked or spent nothing.
       

      The (many years worth of images), it takes time for all of them to be transmitted. Other data may not so readily interpreted, but its not like it would be totally beyond other scientists to evaluate it.

      Yes, it takes time for them to be transmitted, a day or two at worst. (You do realize that the latest data on that page is only about 48 hours old, right?)

  10. Re:Very funny. by bob_super · · Score: 4, Funny

    Actually, the fact that it was filmed on location is the only plausible explanation for its budget.

  11. Re:Looks like a broken piece to a lander or rover by fnj · · Score: 2

    Why on earth would you have that impression? Venus is 0.949 Earth diamaters and 0.82 Earth masses; Mars is only 0.532 Earth diamaters and 0.11 Earth masses. More to the point, did you not read all the Edgar Rice Burroughs Barsoom (Mars) novels by age 10?

  12. Re:Not like they're in a hurry by Dcnjoe60 · · Score: 2

    Seriously, why not get the data? It's an exploration drone, with no solid destination or timetable. If something is interesting, point every sensor you've got at it until it's boring.
    If some loudmouth thinks something is interesting that you don't, it's really not like you're in a hurry, spend a day getting data and then go on your way again.

    They basically already have done this and determined it was a rock. No matter how many times they send the rover back to the same spot, since the instruments on the rover haven't changed, what exactly do you expect to find different?

  13. You should read the complaint... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 4, Insightful

    Rhawn is bullying NASA for the simple fact that he wants the data, and if NASA agrees that the item is biological in nature, then he wants the court to force NASA to have Rhawn as first author on its publications regarding this item. In other words, he wants the prestige of being a researcher in a project he had no hands in, and wants all the credit for a find he didn't find.

  14. Re:Set plan by Nethemas+the+Great · · Score: 2

    Power is still a problem for Curiosity since, the RTG does not provide the full power requirements to the rover in real-time. The rover runs off of a battery pack. The RTG is responsible for recharging the battery pack. Curiosity must periodically take breaks to allow for the RTG to catch up with the power consumed during the rover's active period. That said this is not Curiosity's problem (it is some distance away) this is Opportunity's discovery.

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  15. Except they did release micrographs. by ridley4 · · Score: 5, Informative

    If this idiotic shitstain spent more than five hard seconds looking at the processed press release images, forgetting to take his meds, and crying conspiracy, he would've discovered that the Mars Exploration Rover site on JPL actually releases every single raw image the second it gets downlinked from Mars, including photos that deny claims of not taking micrographs, and also ignorant of basic traits of the MERs (well, MER now - RIP Spirit), such as the relatively low resolution of its sensors compared to modern standards, the microscopic imager just having a resolution of 1024x1024 and a working area of 3.1cm square at operating distance, and because it doesn't have an light on it like MSL/Curiosity's MAHLI, isn't as good at taking photos of things on the ground, like a little rock on the surface of mars.

    In fact, there's even hazcam images of the arm being swung into place, denying that the rover never got close, and that it's actually just the really small rock it is.
    Before arm placement, and after.

    Anyways - oh look, close up, in focus images of a mushroom. Not. I hope this fuck gets laughed out and never returns.

    1. Re:Except they did release micrographs. by rahvin112 · · Score: 3, Informative

      But they only took 27 images. He demands they do 100.

      Because you know he's smart and stuff.

  16. Best quote of the petition by Valdrax · · Score: 3, Interesting

    "8. The refusal to take close up photos from various angles, the refusal to take microscopic images of the specimen, the refusal to release high resolution photos, is inexplicable, recklessly negligent, and bizarre. Any intelligent adult, adolescent, child, chimpanzee, monkey, dog, or rodent with even a modicum of curiosity, would approach, investigate and closely examine a bowl-shaped structure which appears just a few feet in front of them when 12 days earlier they hadn't noticed it. But not NASA and its rover team who have refused to take even a single close up photo."

    His claim for standing to sue is pretty funny too. It boils down to, "I did a bunch of impressive neuroscience work in the late 70s & early 80s, vanished for 20 years, and then reappeared two decades later in full Linus Pauling crank mode churning out books on astrobiology and 'proving' that the evolution of DNA predates Earth by 6 billion years, that upper atmosphere plasma are actually extremophiles, and that otherwise I'm super interested in Mars."

    "Oh, and I'm a taxpayer and really interested in this rock, therefore I deserved to have control over what NASA does in regards to it since they're too boneheaded to see how important it is."

    Here's one of his other books. The reviews give you an idea of how far this man has fallen as a scientist.

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  17. Re:Very funny. by amRadioHed · · Score: 3, Insightful

    Actually, NASA would do well to drive the Rover back there and study the hell out of it, if nothing else than to put the whack-job conspiracy nuts to shame.

    You're assuming that whack-job conspiracy nuts can be shamed, an idea which is not supported by the evidence.

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  18. I am suing! by Darinbob · · Score: 3, Funny

    I am suing NASA demanding 100 high resolution photos and 24 micrographs be taken of Scarlett Johansson, at various angles, from all sides, and from above, and under appropriate lighting conditions which minimize glare, on the basis that this is a living organism.