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Kansas Delays Municipal Broadband Ban

Mokurai writes with an update to a story from last week about legislation in Kansas that would have banned most municipal broadband, including the expansion of Google Fiber. Now, after the public backlash that erupted online, government officials have postponed the legislation's hearings, putting it on hold indefinitely. From the article: "Senate Bill 304 would prohibit cities and counties from building public broadband networks. The Commerce Committee, which [Sen. Julia Lynn] chairs, was scheduled to have a hearing Tuesday, but Lynn released a statement that hearings have been postponed indefinitely. 'Based on the concerns I heard last week, I visited with industry representatives and they have agreed to spend some time gathering input before we move forward with a public hearing,' Lynn said in a statement. 'We'll revisit the topic when some of these initial concerns have been addressed.' Lynn elaborated while exiting a Senate Judiciary hearing. The senator said she has instructed 'the parties' involved with the bill to address the public’s concerns. The bill was introduced by John Federico, a cable industry lobbyist."

36 of 156 comments (clear)

  1. Good by tripleevenfall · · Score: 4, Insightful

    Comcast_blackhat_01: "They've got a better product, we'd better lobby to have them kept out for no reason. We have to protect our phoney baloney jobs here, gentlemen! We must do something about this immediately! Immediately! Immediately! Harrumph! Harrumph!"

    1. Re:Good by fermion · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Say what you will, but Comcast is the only broadband provider in some of my very urban-one-of-the-largest-cities-in-the-US area. Not the suburbs, but minutes from downtown. Verizon is building huge in the area, but not everywhere. ATT is building huge in the area, but not everywhere. So there is clear oppotunity for a third party to come in and compete and acutaly make life better for many people. To provide a broadband service for those who really don't have it. But what did Google decide to do? Go to another city who was 100% wired with multiple vendors almost everywhere. This is why I do not believe google fiber is the answer. They are not going into dense cities who are underserved. They are going into over served areas and trying to take the low hanging fruit. They are not creating markets and demand and new users. They are taking customers who already have service. Which is fine. But this is no way a moral fight. It is no way an underdog trying to save us from the oppressors. It is powerful company saying we are going to undercut other companies so that we can be a monopoly and set prices as we wish with no transparency, just as they do in ads.

      --
      "She's a scientist and a lesbian. She's not going to let it slide." Orphan Black
    2. Re:Good by tripleevenfall · · Score: 4, Interesting

      This is why I do not believe google fiber is the answer. They are not going into dense cities who are underserved. They are going into over served areas and trying to take the low hanging fruit.

      Well, they're going into areas that are already served and putting the garbage existing providers (Comcast, Time Warner, etc) to shame.

      They have to prove that this is workable and profitable before it can go everywhere.

    3. Re:Good by PRMan · · Score: 2

      Maybe not enough people promised to sign up with them. Maybe they see that it's a low-income area where few people would even get broadband. Maybe everyone sees that.

      --
      Peter predicted that you would "deliberately forget" creation 2000 years ago...
    4. Re:Good by tripleevenfall · · Score: 4, Insightful

      The reason Comcast is the only broadband provider is because alllllll the telecomm companies have mutually agreed to divvy up everything so that they can all keep rates as high as possible without competition to drive costs down.

      fixies~

    5. Re:Good by symbolset · · Score: 2

      Comcast is the only broadband provider in some of my very urban-one-of-the-largest-cities-in-the-US area.

      Comcast paid well in concessions for other territories to ensure this, likely. The cable companies swap service areas like they are trading cards.

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    6. Re:Good by wizkid · · Score: 5, Insightful

      Say what you will about the big telcos that have buildings and pop's in the area. They won't provide broadband. Yes they're there and selling services to businesses. they won't touch broadband though. That would create competition. The only way to open up competition will be to encourage small business to come in and provide a better product. The telco's would rather spend money on lobbyists then put fiber in the ground.

      --
      I take no responsibility for what I say. Even though I'm never wrong :)
    7. Re:Good by ackthpt · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Comcast_blackhat_01: "They've got a better product, we'd better lobby to have them kept out for no reason. We have to protect our phoney baloney jobs here, gentlemen! We must do something about this immediately! Immediately! Immediately! Harrumph! Harrumph!"

      People railed against it. This proves Kansas isn't at the forefront of ignorance people suggest. Good for the people of Kansas for holding their leaders to account. Education is alive and well in the Sunflower State, the legislators were taught a lesson.

      --

      A feeling of having made the same mistake before: Deja Foobar
    8. Re:Good by grmoc · · Score: 3, Insightful

      The low hanging fruit is where the regulations allow them to deploy the most quickly to the largest number of customers.

    9. Re:Good by Zaelath · · Score: 4, Insightful

      When did Google become a charity again? At best their move into fiber is a highly capitalized risk venture, and your suggestion is they should "create markets" by providing incredibly expensive data runs to people the rest of the industry can't be bothered servicing because there's not enough of them to make a profit on.

      Traditionally that kind of folly is a role for government, perhaps you should be lobbying them to create a public network to compete with the privates. /laugh

    10. Re:Good by sconeu · · Score: 4, Funny

      I didn't get a Harrumph out of that guy!!!

      --
      General Relativity: Space-time tells matter where to go; Matter tells space-time what shape to be.
    11. Re:Good by xtronics · · Score: 2, Interesting

      As a non believer that actually lives in Kansas - I find my Christian neighbors to have more respect for my beliefs than the socialist leftists have. Tolerance needs to work in all directions.

      In the end - I have the choice of 4 ISP providers in my town - setting up cartels would prevent that. Life is good here - we don't need bigots here - stay on the coasts.

    12. Re:Good by guevera · · Score: 3, Informative

      by providing incredibly expensive data runs to people the rest of the industry can't be bothered servicing because there's not enough of them to make a profit on.

      I seem to recall that we paid the telcos and MSOs to do just that. They then pocketed the money, bought off the regulators, and told us with a straight face that further network upgrades are too expensive and we should all just rely on LTE or something.

  2. Translation by Art+Challenor · · Score: 5, Insightful

    'We'll revisit the topic when some of these initial concerns have been addressed.'

    We're going to keep introducing this legislation until people stop watching and we can pass it (see also SOPA).

    1. Re:Translation by khasim · · Score: 4, Insightful

      And the cable companies will keep trying to buy politicians so that they can get this passed.

      Fuck them.

      Instead, get a law passed that allows the government to install the pipes and allow the homeowners to choose between ISPs that have leased those pipes from the local government.

    2. Re:Translation by c0lo · · Score: 5, Insightful

      Did they pass SOPA when I wasn't looking?

      They "distilled" it into TPP.
      In a sudden burst of common sense, seems that that (the/some/idnk-what-percentage) Dems are opposing Obama on this one.

      --
      Questions raise, answers kill. Raise questions to stay alive.
    3. Re:Translation by icebike · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Except, by delaying, any planned projects will be rushed through to completion, and once cities and counties start putting in fiber and public wifi that cat's out of the bag.

      The summary is a bit misleading, because this would not have blocked Google Fiber. It might have blocked Google supplying an upstream to municipal fiber at a very cheap rate, but even that isn't clear. Once the infrastructure is in place at public expense, its pretty hard mandate its sale or destruction or abandonment. Every city would have grounds to sue.

      Cities provide water, sewer, roads, fire protection, and police. In some places, you will find examples of each such service being provided by private industry. Sometimes under contract, rarely in competition. There is scarcely room for competing roads, sewer, or water. Those are things that are natural monopolies.

      I've got no problem if a city wants to provide municipal fiber, but I do have a problem when doing so blocks competition or decides what content may be carried.

      Municipal fiber, like municipal roads and water, must serve all comers, and must collect revenue from all users via one means or another. (Most people realize that municipal fiber will either become the tragedy of the commons OR it will have to charge competitive rates just to maintain the plant.) Content provision should never be regulated by municipalities. (Too much risk of "won't somebody think of the children" demanding censorship).

      Municipal fiber, done right, means more competition, not less. It opens the door for Road Runner, and Century Link, and Google to service what use to be an exclusive Comcast territory, because they can all use the same plant, just like their trucks all use the same street. Access fees, sure. Total throughput fees, sure.

      However, I don't think the big broadband companies want to fight this too hard. After all, if the municipality does not provide the physical plant, those companies have to make a HUGE investment in neighborhood plant before they can collect a cent of revenue. Its only where they are already entrenched (see what I did there?) that these companies are looking to prevent municipal broadband.Trying to preserve their existing monopoly.

      But I bet they are also doing the math, and realizing they can access more customers than they would lose, especially for TV, when sat dishes are dirt cheap.

       

      --
      Sig Battery depleted. Reverting to safe mode.
    4. Re:Translation by PopeRatzo · · Score: 4, Insightful

      So... you're thinking the introduction of government into this system will make the system cheaper and higher quality?

      Um, the government's been in "this system" since the Internet was born.

      The question should have been whether or not the introduction of telecoms into "this system" and giving them defacto control over the market while allowing them to also be content providers in clear violation of antitrust laws was a good idea.

      --
      You are welcome on my lawn.
    5. Re:Translation by sjames · · Score: 2

      WiFi (often free) is not the same as broadband. Sometimes broadband is provided over wireless. Based on reports, that is no bed of roses no matter who is providing it, mostly because of the tendency to skimp and not actually map the coverage to identify weak spots.

      I have seen a fair number of success stories where I *WISH* I got that much for that little/month. Of course I'm sure not all are so successful, but then there are plenty of areas where a telco's deployment could also be described as a failure.

    6. Re:Translation by jxander · · Score: 5, Insightful

      I think that the introduction of ANY competition would make the system cheaper and higher quality.

      The only thing preventing progress is collusion. Cox, Time Warner, Comcast, etc have agreed not to step on each others toes. Only 1 provider available in most markets means a functional monopoly.

      I think the government would be hard pressed to provide something WORSE than the current offerings. Seriously, they'd have to make a valiant effort to fuck it up that badly. And even a marginally better solution would cause a pretty large exodus from the current companies. Forcing them to improve their product (or lower their prices)

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    7. Re:Translation by Miamicanes · · Score: 2

      So... you're thinking the introduction of government into this system will make the system cheaper and higher quality?

      Cheaper? Probably not, if the government in question plays the role of neutral utility who lays the pipes, then provides service for end users to consume as they see fit, and doesn't screw things up with subsidies.

      Higher quality? As long as the government literally does nothing besides lay and maintain the fiber, and keep the NOC running with five-nines uptime and off-grid backup power (providing switch fabric between fibers so OTHER companies can provide the actual service), almost certainly it'll be better than what we'd get NOW from Comcast and AT&T. We might end up paying "pure platinum" prices for service that's merely gold-plated, but overpriced gold-plating looks pretty damn appealing when the alternative is artificial scarcity and decaying infrastructure.

  3. Terrible wording in title (again) by Huntr · · Score: 4, Informative

    They didn't delay the ban because there was never a ban in place, just like last week when public broadband expansion wasn't restricted.

    There was a bill to do so. They tabled hearings on it because of public opinion. Learn the process and write intelligently about it.

  4. Re:We elect the greediest, most ill-informed... by tripleevenfall · · Score: 5, Insightful

    No one votes on issues anymore. Everyone has been conditioned to vote based on identity politics.

    const "I am a (voting_block_01), therefore, I vote for (party_01)."

  5. Come on Common Carrier! by ArhcAngel · · Score: 5, Insightful

    The sooner these bastards get labeled common carriers the better.

    --
    "A person is smart. People are dumb, panicky dangerous animals and you know it." - K
  6. Translation by Anita+Coney · · Score: 2

    "putting it on hold indefinitely"

    Let me translate: "We're putting it on hold until the uproar dies down."

    --
    If someone says he and his monkey have nothing to hide, they almost certainly do.
  7. Re:Freedom? by Charliemopps · · Score: 2

    Ones that had an interest it keeping rural internet access viable. Internet access is ONLY profitable in city centers. Telco monopolies in these areas are why people in rural areas even have phone service, let alone internet. The telco is required to provide service to any existing home in the area so they spread out the cost. If cities continue to allow competition into the only part of the market that's profitable and not put the same requirements on these new ISPs as the telcos, then the telcos will fail and there will be no rural phone and internet service. Look at the current cable footprint in your town... that's the ONLY place internet will be available without a cellphone if this continues. Do you want that?

    I don't like monopolies either, but there's a reason telcos are setup the way they are... and it has nothing to do with helping them make lots of money. In fact, it significantly hurts their bottom line. If you let them compete on equal footing (i.e. removed service requirements) They'd drop their rural customers in a heartbeat and destroy Google and others almost immediately because they already have all the infrastructure in place.

  8. Re:We elect the greediest, most ill-informed... by Jason+Levine · · Score: 2

    Elections, sadly, have little to do with this. The ban was introduced by a lobbyist group representing big telecom companies. When the outcry emerged, the lobbyist group declared they'd rewrite the bill. Then, the lobbyist group called for the bill to be withdrawn. The legislators are mere middlemen doing what the lobbyists tell them to do. We could save money and get rid of the legislators entirely. Just let lobbyist groups hash out what the laws will be. (Not saying this will be better. Just that we'd at least save on salaries for worthless legislators.)

    --
    My sci-fi novel, Ghost Thief, is now available from Amazon.com.
  9. Re evaluate munni broadband by symbolset · · Score: 5, Informative

    It is now time for all the states who put up barriers to or outright banned municipal broadband to look at the results and see if it serves the public interest. It does not. Everywhere these bills pass the incumbent cable companies immediately shut down investment because they no longer have to provide modern service.

    Washington state has such a law. Before it was enacted some municipalities were already started and so were grandfathered in. That is why you can have had gigabit fiber Internet to the home in Ephrata, WA (pop 8,000) for 14 years now, and Microsoft is building vast data centers out that way. It is also why you can't get gigabit fiber to your home in Seattle Metro area installed today, which enjoys a global peering point and is home to Microsoft, Amazon and a bunch of other big tech companies whose employees could really benefit from the service, and has 600 times the population density. This even though the cost of the equipment has come down by a factor of 100 in that 14 years.

    This is just wrong.

    --
    Help stamp out iliturcy.
  10. Re:Freedom? by PRMan · · Score: 4, Interesting

    They already took billions to get internet to rural areas and then didn't do it anyway. We're done playing that ridiculous game. If you want to live out in the boonies, it's up to you to get your own internet (through satellite or whatever means necessary).

    --
    Peter predicted that you would "deliberately forget" creation 2000 years ago...
  11. Citizens Unite? by kennytosh · · Score: 3, Insightful

    Why can a lobbyist introduce legislation into a State Legislature? There is something seriously wrong with that.

    1. Re:Citizens Unite? by frisket · · Score: 3, Insightful
      This is the USA. Corporate interests own the legislatures.

      The bill was introduced by John Federico, a cable industry lobbyist.

      What do you expect? Who let this asshat in the door?

    2. Re:Citizens Unite? by rsborg · · Score: 3, Informative

      This is the USA. Corporate interests own the legislatures.

      The bill was introduced by John Federico, a cable industry lobbyist.

      What do you expect? Who let this asshat in the door?

      What do you think corporate funding of campaigns are going to result it? These corps aren't stupid, they're in it for returns. A congresscritter pet better earn it's keep or it's off the payroll.

      Thank Citizens United and rollback of campaign finance reform (won't anyone thing of those $$?)

      --
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  12. Re:We elect the greediest, most ill-informed... by NoNonAlphaCharsHere · · Score: 2

    if (getContribution(ATT) > getContribution(COMCAST))
    vote(ATT);
    else
    vote(COMCAST);


    That sort of thing? That's what we have now.

  13. Have the government lay literal pipes by tepples · · Score: 5, Interesting

    Then instead of having the government install "pipes" as in physical media for data communication, have the government install literal pipes. Because utilities' so-called natural monopolies ultimately result from government ownership of roads, city governments have power to take steps to grant utility access more efficiently, as I explained further in this comment. The city would bury conduit, and utility companies would pull their own copper, fiber, or whatever through the conduit. This would start in any neighborhood scheduled for water, sewer, or natural gas maintenance.

  14. A Law written by Lobbyists is shelved !! by rashanon · · Score: 2

    The real issue here is that this entire legislative package was written by the Telcos lobby group, and then pushed into the house. At what pint did we let the politicians off the hook for thinking for themselves, and just taking a corporate payoff. Democracy is destroyed when you let these scumbags corporate thugs write the laws. The only reason this got stopped is the publicity. How often is our democracy stolen by these thieves.

  15. Terrible wording in TFA, too! by Ungrounded+Lightning · · Score: 2

    The bill was introduced by John Federico, a cable industry lobbyist.

    Really? Since when do lobbyists have standing to introduce bills in the Kansas Senate?

    Perhaps the bill was written by industry figures and proposed to a senator by this lobbyist. But it was the senator who introduced it. Stating HIS name, too, and clearly describing the process, might have some effect on this guy's chances for reelection.

    --
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