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New Zealand Spy Agency Deleted Evidence About Its Illegal Spying On Kim Dotcom

Posted by samzenpus on from the was-that-wrong? dept.

An anonymous reader writes "The latest news in this: GCSB appears to have deleted key evidence in the case in a ham-fisted attempt to cover up its illegal activities. Even more ridiculous, GCSB is trying to cover this up by claiming that the material had 'aged off' — implying that it was deleted automatically. New Zealand Prime Minister John Key claims that they had to delete the information under the law. Of course, there are a few problems with that. The first is that under New Zealand law, like most countries these days, parties have an obligation to preserve documents likely to be necessary in a legal case. But, even more damning is that there's video of John Key in the New Zealand Parliament trying to defend against an earlier claim that GCSB had deleted some evidence by insisting that GCSB does not delete anything ever:"

34 of 222 comments (clear)

  1. Fuck GCSB! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Insightful

    And fuck Beta!

  2. FUCK BETA by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Insightful

    FUCK SLASHBETA

    1. Re:FUCK BETA by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Insightful

      Silence demonstrates complacency. The more people are vocal the more they'll feel pressure. Your idea basically amounts to giving up for a week when the time is now more critical than ever to be obnoxiously vocal.

    2. Re:FUCK BETA by Joce640k · · Score: 4, Insightful

      The more people are vocal the more they'll feel pressure.

      You believe the bean counters read the comments instead of looking at the advertising stats?

      --
      No sig today...
    3. Re:FUCK BETA by captainpanic · · Score: 4, Insightful

      I totally agree. I only visit Slashdot for the comments (the news is often posted elsewhere up to 2 days earlier). No comments, no slashdot. And I noticed that the comments section is pretty bad in the beta (far less comments fit on screen, with much more whitespace, making it more difficult to browse the comments).

    4. Re:FUCK BETA by GameboyRMH · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Just tried it. It's far from unsalvageable but it has a couple of simple, but massive flaws. One is the skinny comments section. That sucks hard, make it full-width. The next is that Slashdot seems to be following the trend of many sites to become more like Instagram. Lay off the pictures, don't put a big pic with nearly every article for the sake of having pictures, which is exactly what's happening. If it's really relevant use a small one, not some giant pic I have to scroll past taking up big chunks of valuable content space.

      Last one, and it's not a big one, I'm not sure I like the more minimalist content section. I'd definitely miss the comment ID link and friend/foe indicator.

      --
      "When information is power, privacy is freedom" - Jah-Wren Ryel
    5. Re:FUCK BETA by richlv · · Score: 4, Insightful

      i had only seen the main page. i had not seen the comments.

      that.
      is.
      unusable.

      whoever designed that is not a technical person, no matter what they might think about themselves.

      so let me join with FUCK BETA

      --
      Rich
  3. Maximum penalty... by Joce640k · · Score: 4, Insightful

    There should be a law that says "Assume guilt, apply maximum penalty, put people in jail" when stuff like this happens.

    Same for Arthur Anderson and their shredding parties, etc.

    --
    No sig today...
    1. Re:Maximum penalty... by EmperorArthur · · Score: 5, Insightful

      Judges don't take kindly to things like this, plus Evidence Tampering is a separate crime.

      Then there's the fruit of the poison tree argument. I don't know about NZ, but here in the US all evidence that comes from illegal evidence is considered illegal. So if the original evidence against Dot Com was illegally obtained by the GCSB, then everything, including all the search warants, is inadmissible. That's probably why it was deleted. When Dot Com's lawyers go to make that argument expect the government to say something like "you have no proof."

      --
      So lets pretend that we've just completed writing this code, as opposed to having just completed sabotaging it -Altera
    2. Re:Maximum penalty... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 3, Insightful

      All very true, except that the judge isn't going to care what the government does.

      "For reasons of national security, and reasons that can not be made public that had nothing to do with my pension, the government has displayed a compelling argument that demonstrates complete constitutionality with regards to these absolutely necessary actions. Won't somebody think of the children before they are turned into terrorists."

    3. Re:Maximum penalty... by Arrogant-Bastard · · Score: 5, Insightful

      You're correct but it's not obvious that the law will actually be applied in this case. Clearly, the NZ and US both really, REALLY want to crucify Dot Com and are willing to break the law, cheat, lie, steal, defraud and everything else in order to do it.

      Meanwhile, Slashdot Beta is absolute crap, and if the morons, idiots, and assholes pushing it persist in this stupidity, then they should expect a boycott.

    4. Re:Maximum penalty... by Opportunist · · Score: 5, Insightful

      As was stated before, lucky you.

      I was one of the happy few 'til yesterday when I decided I should take a look. I took. And I was kinda glad I didn't have lunch yet or it would have been a waste of money.

      Slashdot beta looks like, well, pretty much any mediocre news aggregation site out there. Not really awful, but it feels a load slower and it looks like someone took a course in some kinda edgy new technology and now feels the urge to show it off. Remember when the AOLlers found out about HTML and how many bells, whistles and FLASHING gadgets you could fill a page with? Like it or not, that was the first thing that popped into my mind when I saw it. It sure felt like someone wanted to do a "wow, look at me" stunt.

      I might be an old nerd, but to me, less can be more...

      What I like about the "old" Slashdot is not only that it's faster. That's an additional goodie. But first of all, the pictures are smaller and the text gets more real estate on the page. Yes, I like it that way. If I wanted a picture book, I'd turn to the son of a friend of mine, he's 3 and he has plenty of them. I don't need a news page that looks like it's aimed at 3 year olds. I feel kinda insulted that way. I know, it's the trend with newspapers and online magazines all over, and guess what the net effect was: I STOPPED READING THEM.

      It seems the makers of /. fall for the same fallacy the makers of MMOs all over the planet fall for: WoW did it a certain way, so we have to, too, because WoW is the biggest out there. Possible. But you will not attract the players of WoW because, guess what, they already have what they want! The only thing you can accomplish by becoming more like them is to lose those that are with you exactly because you're NOT like them and because they hate what they are.

      But I trust the market in this very special case. As soon as /. is no longer useful, something else will pop up to fill the void. As I usually say when it comes to others that piss their users off: They need us. We don't need them.

      --
      We used to have a Bill of Rights. Now, with the rights gone, all we have left is the bill.
    5. Re:Maximum penalty... by TheloniousToady · · Score: 4, Insightful

      But to the bitchfest crew, this shitstorm of offtopic crapflooding has made /. comments utterly unreadable for ontopic discussion. That sucks. I actually clicked this link to read real comments and got nowhere.

      Hopefully, everyone will tire of the beta ranting and we can all go back to ranting about all other things soon. And hopefully, the editors already get the message, so all this beta mastering can stop soon. Personally, I'm still on classic (after 30 seconds or so on beta) so I don't even have anything to complain about until they actually take classic away. If that happens, I'll either adjust or go away, I'm not sure which. Meanwhile, they risk destroying the site, ala Digg. (It's not smart to even roll such Dice, Kids...)

      I remember when the current look came in several years ago. I think it had round corners and a different color scheme. I didn't like it at first - cosmetic change is as hard for nerds as math is for Barbie - but I soon got used to it. Hopefully that can happen again if necessary. If not, sayonara Slashdot.

    6. Re:Maximum penalty... by Catbeller · · Score: 3, Insightful

      The point, the very essence, of the electronic surveillance state is that YOU have no privacy or hope of leniency. Your watchers, however, are secret, immune, and implacable. Whenever someone says, "Just don't do anything wrong!", or, "What have you got to hide?" or, best, "Get the fuck over it, privacy is dead.", remember this story. The people who run the panoptikon, who can call in Copyright Commando raids against a home *in another country*, can accuse and prosecute and steal; however, they themselves can lie, hide, destroy evidence, and operate in total secrecy. Power without consequences for the corporations and governments, while *you* will be held responsible for every bad thing you've ever said or did. Anywhere in the world that has power that can get access to the panoptikon can drag your ass back to their jurisdiction (well, America, Canada, New Zealand and Australia can, anyway).

  4. please abandon the beta by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Insightful

    pretty please?

  5. Should've deleted Beta by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Insightful

    Beta sucks. Fuck Beta.

  6. SLASHBETA ADMINS by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 4, Insightful

    FYI, The slashbeta admins are modding threads and replies as -1.... like 5-10 posts all at once. No REAL COMMUNITY MEMBER MODS are doing this, but the admins.

    Users don't want Slashbeta, but the admins are trying to suppress this obvious reality. The last 3-4 stories all comments are 99% anti-slashbeta and they still want to pretend they're listening to us and asking for our feedback.

    The feedback is to take your fucking redesign and rm -fr

    Die in a fire slashbeta

    1. Re:SLASHBETA ADMINS by gbjbaanb · · Score: 4, Insightful

      not sure about that - most people with mod points will mod "fuck beta" posts as -1 as they are offtopic, and such posts are easy to moderate (ie you don't have to think if something is insightful or informative for example).

      However,I don't think there are enough mod points available to kill all the fuckbeta posts.

      BTW fuck beta. Really, fuck the stupidity of it. (I wouldn't mind if it still delivered what is important about slashdot but its just sidelined the comments and stories as if they're the irrelevant parts).

    2. Re:SLASHBETA ADMINS by Common+Joe · · Score: 5, Insightful

      not sure about that - most people with mod points will mod "fuck beta" posts as -1 as they are offtopic, and such posts are easy to moderate (ie you don't have to think if something is insightful or informative for example).

      I always mark things off topic, but not this time. I'm making an exception and I'm not the only one with mod points making that exception. The Dice overlords didn't hear the first dozen times we screamed about the beta site so we're screaming louder since they are telling us they are going to take away our classic view. Really... this is the last time before Slashdot implodes. If they move ahead to the beta crap and force us on it, Slashdot is going to be a ghost town.

      -- Common Joe

      Slashdot Valentines Day Massacre: Boycott Slashdot because "Fuck Beta!": February 10 - 17

      And Support Okian Warrior's Alternate Slashdot Idea!

    3. Re:SLASHBETA ADMINS by Sam+H · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Well at least I shall use all my mod points to flag fuckbeta posts as “Insightful”, because they are. Off-topic, but insightful.

      --
      God, root, what is difference ?
  7. Forking Slashdot by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 3, Insightful

    We need a forking plan for near future when everything goes "Beta" permanently.

  8. Who the fuck is Beta... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Insightful

    ...and what's up with all the hate agai...(click).

    Oh. What in the holy fuck is this?

    Nevermind. Fuck Beta.

  9. Fuck Beta by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 3, Insightful

    Keep Classic

    Fuck Beta

  10. Fuck NSA ! Fuck GCSB ! Fuck GCHQ ! by Taco+Cowboy · · Score: 5, Insightful

    ... and yes, Fuck http://beta.slashdot.org/ !!

    --
    Muchas Gracias, Señor Edward Snowden !
    1. Re:Fuck NSA ! Fuck GCSB ! Fuck GCHQ ! by schlachter · · Score: 5, Insightful

      Whoa, WTF. Just checked it out after seeing all the FUCK SLASHDOT posts.

      I've been on Slashdot since the 90's and the BETA kills the community features.

      Slashdot is not a news site. It's a community discussion site. Discussion is almost impossible in the gimped BETA.

      --
      My God can beat up your God. Just kidding...don't take offense. I know there's no God.
    2. Re:Fuck NSA ! Fuck GCSB ! Fuck GCHQ ! by thoromyr · · Score: 5, Insightful

      i agree with the outrage, but I guess today i'm feeling particularly pessimistic because I honestly don't think anything we do will matter. After all, as long as they maintain ad impressions that's all that counts. Who the fuck cares what the site is about, that can be changed anytime. Just keep those ads coming.

      The primary problem with "classic" slashdot is that it devotes entirely too much of the available space to comments when it could have more space for branding and advertising. What the fuck were the morons who developed slashdot thinking? That they were providing a forum or something for people to post in?

  11. How many complaints about the beta... by EzInKy · · Score: 5, Insightful

    ...will it take for slashdot to abandon this course? I'm only asking because I love this site and want to continue to to support it as long as I am able. Tell us please, this really is a case of Dice asserting it's supremecy isn't it? I can't fathom why the usual slashdot admins would subject their usership to these shenagagins.

    --
    Time is what keeps everything from happening all at once.
    1. Re:How many complaints about the beta... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Insightful

      I'm surprised nobody gets this. The new slashdot isn't for you; it's not for the current userbase. They want a more marketable userbase. They want companies to pay to have stories posted (speculation, but I get that impression from the new layout since the focus is more on the posts than the discussions.) Why? because good community driven discussion sites simply aren't profitable enough.

      The new site doesn't "suck"; it is designed for more consumption and less interaction. Of course it actually sucks, but that doesn't matter. Dice is counting on a new wave of less sophisticated consumers to replace everyone that will leave. Those consumers are accustomed to the kind of website Dice has made, and Dice is betting that those users will be more profitable than the current userbase.

      So there is no real point in bitching about it. The decision to switch to the new beta was made last year, and that decision had nothing to do with the quality of that beta site. I wonder if this beta plan was being kicked around years ago when Rob left....

      Slashdot is dying. Let's not waste the last few months of it's existence bitching about something we cannot change. Instead, lets enjoy what time we have left.

  12. Re:I couldn't comment on Beta in the proper link by geekmux · · Score: 4, Insightful

    I couldn't comment on Beta in the proper link because it's down, so I'd like to go offtopic for a moment, and note that the Beta interface is unwieldy and takes longer to load (which makes a difference on 2G/3G tethering). Therefore, I'd like to vote against it. Thank you.

    And ah, no need to apologize for being off-topic my friend. Apparently, every topic has a similar answer here lately. "Fuck Beta".

    And when Beta turns out to be a hot porn star, that answer will be an accurate one.

    Until then, it's the new SlashWarCry to insist our beloved aged-like-XP interface remains unchanged.

    Or at least stop us from migrating to that thing I've now politely labeled as Slashdon't

    Slashdon't. Please.

  13. Beta sucks balls by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Insightful

    Does anyone notice a cycle?

    They ask for feedback, they say they care.
    5 stories now 99% of comments pure hate. The disgust is everywhere.
    They continue to make it worse pretend that no one fucking hates it.
    We get more pissed
    They tell us we're "griping" and want to know what's wrong...
    Well them what's wrong (everything...again ).....
    Nothing changes...

    LIP SERVICE

  14. No, we won't "get used to it" by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Insightful

    Hey Dice, remember Digg?

    July 2008 Digg took part in advanced acquisition talks with Google for a reported $200 million price tag
    August 25, 2010 Digg v4 site redesign
    July 12, 2012 Digg announced its sale to Betaworks for $500,000

    Is that what you want?

  15. They should make a story about the beta by fleeped · · Score: 4, Insightful

    It will be cool to see the comments in the thousands, even if all are screaming in unison the same two words.. "Fuck beta". But seriously, fuck beta and you're not google: shove it down our throats and many of us will be out.

  16. Re:Nonsense by DrJimbo · · Score: 4, Insightful

    AC opined:

    They don't delete externally collected data. They obviously delete or age-off internal records.

    Prime Minister John Key, who is in charge of GCSB said:

    This is a spy agency. We don't delete things. We archive them.

    Key's office confirmed that Key was talking about the video that his lawyers had claimed was deleted.

    AC opined:

    Isn't claiming that Dotcom was illegally spied upon putting the cart before the horse here? Where is the evidence? Regardless of whether it was deleted or not, by making the statement one is assuming the conclusion and puts their own credibility at risk.

    Here are some links from the fine article showing that the government and the police have already admitted malfeasance:

    Police Admit That NZ Spy Agency Illegally Spied On Kim Dotcom

    NZ Prime Minister Admits That The Government Illegally Wiretapped Megaupload Employees

    Oddly enough you are correct that these admissions of malfeasance do put the credibility of the police and the Prime Minister at risk although that is probably not what you meant.

    And in conclusion: FUCK BETA!

    --
    We don't see the world as it is, we see it as we are.
    -- Anais Nin
  17. Beta means the end for Slashdot by kbahey · · Score: 4, Insightful

    I have been a regular visitor to Slashdot for around 15 years. For that, I get the checkbox to disable ads, though I browse with Javascript disabled so my browser does not slow down.

    I come here for the discussions, and often read comments at +5, changing that only if I find a discussion interesting and warrants reading at a lower level.

    The new beta uses JQuery for the comment threshold selector, and changes that on the fly. This means all the comments are loaded, but not visible, and processing any page with considerable number of comments will slow down MY computer! If I have a few tabs open to read later, my computer will be unusable.

    What is worse it that they require you to click on the slider on every article to change the threshold! This is just insane!

    If they insist that I enable Javascript to browse the site at the threshold I want, then they will lose me as a long time. I imagine that others long timers will hate the site too.

    Dice have to remember that this site has two unmatched features, interlocked: a moderation system that is good at cutting down the trolling, spamming, and noise, and a comment section that is frequented by many people who are passionate about technology and other nerdy stuff.

    If they wanted to intentionally ruin the site and drive people away, they would not have done any worse than what they are doing now.

    If they manage to aggravate a lot of their users, the comment section will no longer be attractive to the audience. Perhaps we should revive kuro5hin?

    I wrote the above in a feedback form that I filled a while ago, and I am emailing this comment to their feedback@slashdot.org. Please send them feedback too.

    And mod this up so Dice can see what they are getting themselves into.

    --
    2bits.com, Inc: Drupal, WordPress, and LAMP performance tuning.