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Report: Valve Anti-Cheat (VAC) Scans Your DNS History
dotarray writes "If a recent report is to be believed, Valve is looking at your browsing history. Reportedly, the company's Valve Anti Cheat system (VAC) looks at all the domains you have visited, and if it finds that you've frequented hack sites, you'll be banned. 'The new functionality has been slammed by gamers, who claim it is "more like spyware than anti-cheat". Valve has not responded to the allegations, but all Steam users have agreed to abide by specific online conduct and not to use cheats. The company's privacy policy also explains that Valve may collect "personally identifiable information", but promises not to share it with other parties.'"
Create a steam user without access to your real user's files. Run steam only as this user.
Actually, the article doesn't say anyone has been banned using the data. It specifically says that NO one currently knows what happens with the data. So that's a pretty large red herring. That doesn't negate the heinousness of them tracking the websites you visit *just* in case you might cheat. Very NSA-esque.
How many Linux users do you think have the idea of sandboxing Valve applications, just in case they might be peeking inside other applications' user data?
There's no "Linux obviously" about it. It's a matter of trust, and Linux or not, users are far too trusting of the applications they install.
"A door is what a dog is perpetually on the wrong side of" - Ogden Nash
Done.
I am very small, utmostly microscopic.
The article is based on a REDDIT post. We all know they are always 100% accurate and credible. They did catch the boston bombers afteralll!
journalism at its finest.
Create a separate virtual machine where you do all your clandestine browsing from.
If the steam engine is able to access the VM and the disks there then they really are insisting on digging through your computer, but I doubt that they will be able to go far with it.
If builders built buildings the way programmers wrote programs, then the first woodpecker would destroy civilization.
We shouldn't have to worry about hiding our browser history from a fucking game company. They have no god damn business even taking a peak. I don't care if if there is a hidden clause in their Eula that they say allows it. It's wrong, and they know it's wrong.
The claim is that the operating system's DNS cache is scanned, not any particular application's history.
Security researchers? Most game server admins I know (at least, the good ones) will browse hack sites/videos, so they know what's out there and what to look for. Unless it started very recently, they're not doing any banning for this.
Steam isn't a subscription service, you pay full price (ok or wait for sales) for games and they can only be run through Steam. So uninstalling Steam means losing access to the games you've bought through the service unless you pirate them back. This does make me want to delete Steam and cease using the service though.
I wonder if there are enough irritated users to delete and redownload their entire Steam library enough times to send Valve a high-bandwidth wake-up protest message.
This story is being debunked in the original reddit thread.
http://www.reddit.com/r/technology/comments/1y4za5/steams_vac_now_reads_all_the_domains_you_have/
Why not just run Steam as a different user?
It's not like Windows where you basically are expected to run everything as one user, create a Steam user which you can only "su" to from certain other users, and then set up a script to automatically make it run Steam only as a user that has access to nothing but Steam.
But to be honest what's the point? What precisely are they going to do with the hash of a domain name that you looked up, not even visited? The bans are not going to be based on that information. You can't ban someone just because they strayed or were enticed into looking up a domain that might host a cheat, only if they actually use those cheats.
I reckon they are using it to find similar users and spot trends more than anything else. If a load of confirmed cheaters all have the same hash in their history, but not most people, then its likely that it's worth looking into other user's with that same hash (or at least taking it into account when someone reports a new cheat).
I'm a Steam fan, it has to be said, but while them looking at my domain history concerns me, they are at least hashing them and they have a full browser in the Steam client. If they want to track my visits, that's infinitely more worrying and does all sorts of cookie stuff (alright, you have to be running Steam and using their browser to visit whatever, but that's still much more info than the hash of a domain I looked up).
Also, in case you hadn't noticed, the name of domains you looked up all go to your DNS server. If that's not a local one, you're already pushing this information in plain text across the Internet. Please tell me that you're not using Google or OpenDNS before you came to whine on this post.
Plus, even aside from all the above, there is no real evidence that they are actually transmitting or collecting this information. Someone's just gone into the new anti-cheat modules with a disassembler and seen something suspicious. Doesn't mean that it's even enabled, or not test code. Nobody has yet seen it actually do this stuff (and what would it take? Wireshark and five minutes?).
If you're using DNSSEC exclusively, didn't read the Steam agreement, are running as a completely unprivileged user (without even access to the name cache, on Linux, presumably?), and can confirm that what is alleged is actually happening, then maybe you have a case to be miffed.
Otherwise? I have bigger privacy worries every time I send an email.
P.S. Damn lameness filter, what the hell are you seeing?
Reading comprehension must be particularly difficult for you. I am sorry.
Still pretty fucking invasive if true. I'm going to have to watch this and, if true, protest. Not quite sure how yet, I'd hate to lose my game library but this sort of invasive behavior can't go unanswered. The "repeatedly redownload your gaming library" idea has some merit if done en-masse along with vocal enough complaints. Perhaps we can dig up the phone number and address of the company executives so we can send our complaints directly to the parties responsible for allowing such a thing .
--- Most topics have many sides worth arguing, allow me to take one opposite you.
So you buy games that you can't play unless you have steam? Why would you do that? I play all my games without permission from anyone. I bought them, they belong to me and I play them when I want without some service watching over me. What is wrong with people today... why do you put up with this kind of crap?
I agree that it's very invasive if the list is returned to Valve, however I can't find any evidence that it is. The code originally posted only details the *reading* and hashing of the DNS cache, with no sign of *transmitting* it.
As far as I can see, numerous headlines and articles since the code was posted have made the claim that the list is sent to Valve, without any evidence.
This is so wrong and against privacy laws (at least in the EU), this would be equal to the IRS regularly scanning your history to see if you visit sites with tips for tax dodging. The police arresting everyone who visits lockpicking tutorials. The RIAA arresting everyone for possession of an internet account, Or the TSA l.. oh wait, they already do that. But at least the TSA can claim that their work is in the public interest.
Besides. This is a new definition of guilty by association.
" all Steam users have agreed to abide by specific online conduct"
I would say this is only valid while using a Steam product. the way it is worded in TFA sounds more like a lifestyle where you have to abide to their rules at all times. Steam makes it even illegal to cheat in games from their competitors!
This is so ridiculous, all I can do is wait for the class action lawsuit to commence. Steam is done with, if this turns out to be true.
They also offer a variety of services which I greatly appreciate in this day an age.
I don't have to lug around all my cds/dvds/Floppies every time I move and honestly I've gotten rid of all my physical media (external hard-drives excluded) about 2 international moves ago.
It automatically keeps all my games up to date, no more Battlefield 1942 patch hell.
As a store front it allows me to keep up to date on game releases and even pre-load certain titles.
Steam sales.
A robust offline mode which automatically works as long as you've downloaded the game and run it a single time while being connected online.
I use it as a unified launcher.
I use it as a communication tool dedicated to getting in touch with other people I know who are playing games and can easily organize matches of any game on our collective steam lists.
Also not all games come with the steamworks DRM and can be run freely without steam even being installed on the system. Granted you have to download it through Steam first, but that would apply to any digital store front. Not to mention I've never noticed the DRM in action, making it the most non-intrusive form so far and if it doesn't even bother me, I don't see much reason to rage about it if it means that Steam is more likely to stay in business.
I no longer have to input CD-keys or even worry about where I've physically kept the myriads of manuals containing them and installing software is as quick as simply wanting to play something and double clicking the title and download/installation is automatic. I don't have as much time to waste on gaming as I used to so streamlining it is in my best interest.
Having to live with the "fear" that one day my games will be gone is like worrying that a Jumbo jet will land on my house. Honestly, I'd just pirate the games I'd lost.
why do you put up with this kind of crap?
Cost, convenience, and a lack of alternatives.
I license the right to play a game from Steam, usually for dirt cheap prices, and in exchange, it's available on any Internet-connected computer I own. Should I lack an Internet connection, it's possible to enable an offline mode as well, allowing me to continue playing regardless of my lack of a connection.
Games haven't been owned by anyone for a long time now. Even buying a physical disc is just buying a license to play the game, which can and does get revoked in cases of abuse (see: Halo 4, Call of Duty: Ghosts, Diablo III). Of the companies out there that are licensing games to customers, Steam is relatively permissive, and it's rare that a typical gamer will run into issues with them.
Cancel subscription, uninstall steam and move on.
Oh come on, this anti cheating detection simply demands that we cheat it!
You have the right to remain sentient. If you give up the right to remain sentient, you will be elected to public office
The reason I *started* using Steam was because I bought a game in a store only to find when I got it home that it was pretty much a dummy disk that just made me install Steam and download the game in order to play it. The game was Civilization V. I don't get outraged by much, but come to think of it, that kind of is an outrage, but one just borderline enough that I was willing to accept it rather than not play the game. I don't/didn't know what else to do.
You forgot
*) Possibility to cancel your business relationship with Valve and keep playing the games you paid for.
Oh, wait.. No you didn't.
DRM is DRM, and there's no such thing as "DRM done right."
Gabe Newel has stated that if we reach the heath death of the universe, you can get a new account with all your games on the next one. You just have to provide proof that you came from this universe.
Of course you have to move to a universe where steam exists, but I think you'll find valve is operating on most of them.
* or, what if they disable your entire game library because you visited a blacklisted website.
Worth noting that VAC doesn't lock you out of running games or delete your account, it just prevents you from playing multiplayer on VAC servers. VAC is a voluntary-to-publisher service that Valve offers to creators of multiplayer games. If a publisher says "yeah, if someone cheats on a different game then we don't want them playing on our servers either", they can do that...it's pretty much the same as publicly shared email blackhole lists. If you have a problem with a publisher putting VAC in their games, complain about them and not Valve.
Many (most?) multiplayer games that let players run their own servers give an option of running a non-VAC one, or to connect directly to IP, whatever.
Seriously...even if Valve didn't run VAC, someone else would run an equivalent service (can you say Punkbuster?). All it takes is for one or two companies to say "hey we have this way to detect cheaters, why don't we share the steam keys of the cheaters we find and keep them from playing online on our servers", and there you go.
Nonsense. I dont buy licenses. I buy games.
No, you don't (unless you're representing a game publisher or developer, in which case maybe you do). Read the fine print included with any game you buy today on physical media. You bought the disc, so you generally have the right to resell the disc, and the licenses are transferable as well, so it gives many consumers the illusion of ownership, but the fact is, you don't own any of the games that you've "bought". That's why companies are legally capable of cutting off customers who break rules in their games. I provided links to several examples a few posts back in this thread.
I'm not suggesting I like that it's this way, mind you, nor that it should be this way. I'm merely pointing out that it's the reality of the situation. Having you deny it doesn't magically make it untrue.
http://www.reddit.com/r/gaming...
Basically, they're looking only for the DRM servers used by some very specific kernel-level cheats (apparently even cheats have DRM now - and these are not web sites, but DRM servers they're looking for, you won't trigger it by searching for or even buying cheats unless you use them). They do this comparison client-side, transmitting only if there is a match, and only transmitting the hashed value (which is used so the VAC servers can confirm it was a cheat when issuing the ban - otherwise one would be able to forge a "cheat" and get someone else banned). They also only do this scan at all if VAC has detected the cheat in the first place, which they claim has affected less than 0.1% of their users.
Valve is explicitly denying that they are gathering your browser history.
So my overall analysis:
1) If what they say is true, then they're doing everything they can to *not* gather your browsing history, and are only gathering the hashed value to protect users.
2) This should be possible to verify - see if the code doing the checks is triggered at all during normal use, and see what a packet sniffer picks up.
3) Even though I like Valve a lot, after recent events (Snowden, some personal betrayals, etc.) I feel I can't trust anybody. I'll let others do the verification (I'm not technically skilled enough to trust my own work on it), but if it turns out that this is all they are doing, it's a good thing that is very, very close to being a bad thing. If, however, they are not just spying on us but then lying about it, I will be downloading a Steam crack immediately (I spent over $1000 on Steam games, they're mine no matter what the law says) and taking everything into offline mode.