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Edward Snowden's Lawyer Claims Harassment From Heathrow Border Agent
concertina226 writes "Jesselyn Radack, a human rights lawyer representing Edward Snowden, has claimed that she was detained and questioned in a 'very hostile' manner on Saturday by London Heathrow Airport's Customs staff. Radack freely disclosed to the border agent that she was going to see members of the Sam Adams Associates group, and when he realized that the meeting would be happening at the Ecuadorian Embassy, he went on to ask her if Julian Assange would be in attendance and to ask her about why she had traveled to Russia twice in three months."
Use whatever petty powers might end up being called constitutional in a court of law, even if it's clearly against the spirit, because, hey, how else are you going to exert your authority over someone who's generally considered to have done a good thing?
Mensch said that she is"proud" that Heathrow Border Force were "doing "their lawful job" by interrogating Radack. She has also insisted that Radack is not actually Snowden's lawyer but merely just a "legal advisor" trying to claim attorney-client privilege.
Precisely as I had suspected.
Are you serious? Every single thing he does from here on could be another charge added by capricious prosecutors trying to prove a point. It's not like you or I where a small, harmless crime or misstatement is going to be overlooked. Someone somewhere in the bureaucracy of the FBI is building a gigantic case-file with everything Snowden does(and yeah, there's probably been a warrant issued too, so let's not pretend this isn't stuff they can bring to trial).
Foreign citizen turns up at the border and mentions that she will visit a fugitive from the law and is surprised when that results in an border interrogation?
I'm British.
The border staff are a national embarrassment, and are wildly, wildly incompetent.
I think they'd happily wave through a man going by the name of "Osama Bin Laden" (OK, he's dead who do we use now for the purpose hyperbole?) carrying a radioactive suitcase and declaring "Allah Akbar" and then hassle some poor American on a work visa for an hour or three.
Actually in my limited experience, the border guards seem to give Americans a really hard time if they've got work visas.
I've been stopped at the border and hassled by a dim border gard. He was clearly trying to catch me in a lie and asked a question about somewhere I was living. He didn't like my (correct) answer and insisted I must be wrong, repeatedly. What the hell are you supposed to say to an obnoxious border guard who won't accept the legal, legitimate truth as an answer?
SJW n. One who posts facts.
I think you're mistaken. Thugs frequently tend to have quite a bit of authority. It makes them very good at being thugs.
Every time I have been through Customs and Immigration in the UK I have witnessed (or been subjected to) the agents there acting in a very demeaning manner towards travelers. To me it is SOP for the UK, to the point that I think the equivalent people in the US actually seem nicer.
So while she may have been targeted because of who she is and who she is representing, the style of the questioning is not surprising.
I am Slashdot. Are you Slashdot as well?
When I was a kid, the TV output from America and the UK made every effort to show us why the regimes of the Nazis and the Soviets were 'bad'. One might think the fact that both regimes had been directly responsible for the murder of tens of millions of Humans would have made such concerns redundant, but Human psychology proves that people respond far better to depictions of individual acts of petty cruelty over scenes of unthinkable slaughter.
My point is that such dramas had many common themes. Mistreatment at international borders was certainly one.
Anyway, I have lived long enough to see each of those dramatic atrocities become standard operating procedure by the regimes of the UK and USA. The BBC is at the forefront of producing propaganda selling these abuses as 'essential'. It is notable that after 9/11, for more than one year the BBC worked in pro-torture arguments into every form of its TV output, and shortly afterwards torture was a commonplace tactic used by both official British and American forces.
Now watch the activity of the usual vile shills in this discussion. Long before Snowden's set of 'leaks', it became common knowledge that the British and Americans spend billions every year saturating public forums with pro-government0agenda propaganda. The owners of Slashdot do not promote their stories by accident. Even a story like this is NOT anti-government, like it seems, but a chance to 'threaten' ordinary citizens by reminding them what will happen to them or their families if they dare 'defy the king'.
expect the teeth and claws. Snowden and Assange have tweaked the powerful, dragging their criminal deeds into the light. NO ONE will be free to act as their agents, servants or mouthpieces without being harmed in every possible way. Look at the collusion between Visa and the U.S. Government attempting to choke off Wikileaks. If that is not evidence of common conspiracy, Visa acting to reduce its income in order to satisfy an agenda of government, what is? Next time you think "Government vs. Business", remember this IS Business-government (fascism).
Greetings.
After having been harassed a few times during business trips to London after having worked for two London-based companies, I decided to never fly into London again if I can help it. Instead, I fly into Paris from either Moscow or the US, have a nice lunch somewhere near Gare du Nord, then take the Eurostar into London (about a 2-hour ride). The UK immigration officials at the rail station are way nicer and more polite, the process is much faster, and in general the suckage is much lower.
Cheers!
pr3d
http://eugeneciurana.com | http://ciurana.eu
So why is this news for nerds?
Clearly readers of the site are interested in this article. You are the only whiner.
If you don't like the article, don't read it.
And quit your bitching, you pathetic little cunt.
Everyone needs many lawyers at all stages.
More seriously, a child -- even a stupid child -- could tell that Snowden faces legal threats, among other threats. It's not foolish of him to consult with lawyers. Besides, you think there are no lawyers out to get him?
-- This and all my posts are in the public domain. I am a lawyer. I am not your lawyer, and this is not legal advice.
Well, for a start if you're not a British Citizen then you might not have a right to enter.
Thugs have no authority. The are responsible for the crimes they commit and should be jailed immediately.
...unless they have guns and governmental backing. In this case, they're more properly classified as goons. :(
Usually, the best way to deal with a goon is by one of two methods, depending on governmental status:
1) publicity and shaming of their superiors. You do it hard and heavy enough to generate outrage, and force change to a positive direction (change in policies, fire the SOBs who performed the violations, etc.) When appropriate, a loud and messy lawsuit can provide the same results, and simultaneously enrich you a bit for your time and trouble.
2) subterfuge and quiet resistance. In the case when a government has begun its descent into fascism, your best bet is hide what you must hide, find workarounds to the obstacles, and quietly help remove the fascist elements of the government. As an addendum, carefully probe the possibility of bribery and other methods.
Sadly, we're fast becoming forced to go with #2 - in most of the EU and in the US. In the above case, I suggest that the lady in this story continue to scream bloody murder, and perhaps launch a lawsuit for any credible reason (she's a lawyer, it wouldn't be hard for her to figure out some reason) but meanwhile use the Chunnel next time, and then leave/arrive from a French (or possibly Spanish or German) airport.
*sigh*... if only the population at large would get their eyeballs off the TV and celebrity gossip for long enough to realize just how far down the shitter we're all heading...
Quo usque tandem abutere, Nimbus, patientia nostra?
Hmm, I'm not sure the troll mod is appropriate. There's some superficial similarity there. Using a standing authority to push people around is a bit what beta seems like.
I could see a "flamebait" mod for being, you know, inflammatory, but it's at least relevant and interesting to me.
A U.S. Citizen cannot be denied entry to the country. They *can* confiscate your bags... but they can't deny you entry.
You can be denied exit of the last country before the USA. I was detained at Schipol (Amsterdam international airport), subjected to a strip search and a "friendly" but hugely intimidating amount of questions. They also physically disassembled (but made no practical attempt to access the data on) a LaCie Rugged external HD I had with me. I could not simply ask for a lawyer. I *DID* have all the marks for a targeted search and interrogation: Looked like a total punk stoner leaving Holland for the USA (I've not been to Holland, except for this stop in their airport - my passport clearly showed this); was admittedly beyond the tourist Visa waiver on my US passport (had been in Germany for 6 months with my now wife, then fiance) and had a stack of German anarchist pamphlets in my rucksack (this last part was certainly why I was detained and harassed longer, but not the original reason).
While I understand the need for security, it bothers me greatly that I could be subjected to this for physical appearance and reading material that was well within my rights in all three countries to possess. It bothers me more that my friends react with shock not to this treatment but that I didn't get a haircut and mail myself the pamphlets rather than take them on a plane. The only bit that I completely have to roll with is that yes, I was legally no longer to be allowed in Europe at the time.
I also suspect the Venn circles of former High School bullies and Small Town Cops damn near overlap.
1. Crimes are not harmless.
Depends on what is being called a crime. In this case, they use the term "crime" as one would expect from some two-bit fascist commissar in a half-assed Junta. That is, the term "crime" is more easily translatable to "something that embarrassed the shit out of me, uncovered some bad doings, probably hampered my plans, and will require a lot of work on my part to get the sheep to ignore it."
Quo usque tandem abutere, Nimbus, patientia nostra?
Dude, are you kidding? Win or lose, whatever lawyer represents him at any potential trial will stand to make a metric fuck-ton of money.
See also the lawyer (Jose Baez, I think?) that represented Casey Anthony in her little baby-killing trial. Hell, he probably did that one for free, because he knows full well that his name and number is now on the Rolodex of any defendant (potential or actual) in the region that happens to have an obscene amount of money in the bank.
As another more technical example, that dude David Boies made a shitload of dosh off of representing SCO, in spite of his crappy track record (ex: he represented Al Gore in that little election dust-up back in 2000), and in spite of losing all the SCO v. (//insert linux vendor) cases rather spectacularly.
Quo usque tandem abutere, Nimbus, patientia nostra?
Who cares about this stuff? Let's watch the news about the Kardashians and Honey Boo Boo!!!
The best way to combat such government behavior is a real life DDOS. Everyone should report at Heathrow claiming to know Snowden, Assange and de Miranda. Carry encrypted thumb drives with you (chockfull with vile porn ofcourse). Refuse to decrypt without a court order. This will overload the system within 24 hours.
It would be even funnier if millions of ordinary citizens would end up on the no fly list. Report all government personnel and officials for spying! After all, they are part of a government with a broad illegal spying program targeted against their own population. So report them at home and overseas so they end up on no fly lists. Once a critical mass of people disallowed to fly has been reached, especially public servants, these programs will quickly get a review.
You are not the only person I have heard have trouble flying in or through Holland.
A friend of mine is Iranian and went home to visit family, with planned extended layovers in Amsterdam to have a little fun in between.
Twice he has done this, and twice subjected to invasive searches, including full cavity searches. We are not talking about some punk kid either, I mean a 60 year old, gray haired IT professional....up against a wall with his cheeks spread.
"I opened my eyes, and everything went dark again"
"Radack claims that the officer told her that she was questioned because she is on an "inhibited persons list", a term coined by the US Department of Homeland Security. It means the US Transportation Security Administration has officially instructed an airport operator or aircraft operator not to provide the individual with access to an area or with a boarding pass to the destination."
Be an ethics lawyer: get on the no fly list?
And that seems to be Snowden's "crime", embarrassing the U.S.
It might be better to go with cat pictures than vile porn -- a clever prosecutor might figure out a way to harass you with some legal BS over porn. Cat pics though -- as long as they are public domain or ones you took, no issues.
What changed under Obama? Nothing Good
The typical solution would have been to x-ray him.
"The likes of Facebook and WhatsApp are free to those whose privacy is of zero value."
No. The US embarassed the US. Snowden brought that embarrasment to everyone's attention. It isn't going to stop either. I remember a specific quote that the administration is aware of the harm Snowden's disclosure has caused. They are simply too arrogant or stupid to figure out that it was the actions of the US that are a complete embarresment, not those of Assange. If they didn't commit the crime, there would be nothing for Snowden to bring to light.
* The US Government is committing a crime. There is no way around this. No law trumps the constitution. Period. And, no, it is not a "living document" to be "interpreted".
Guns don't kill people; Physics kills people! - John Lithgow as Dick Solomon on Third Rock From The Sun
All right. How about we go back to the perfectly reasonable pre 9/11 security procedures, minus the lax "it could never happen here" mentality, and otherwise just trust folks not to be complete assholes? And accept that every now and then someone will do something terrible and people will die. It's life, shit happens. Most of it doesn't happen on airplanes. How many planes would have to blow up just to compete with the number of deaths due to drunk driving*? And yet we don't jump all over ourselves to throw away human dignity and vital liberties to stamp that out.
*Estimated 10,000+ U.S. drunk driving deaths in 2010. Most commercial airliners seat 200-500, let's call it 350 average. So, we need to average about three fully-loaded planes being destroyed every month just to be competitive with drunk driving, which itself doesn't actually rank all that high as a cause of death. Provided they keep the cabin door locked there's not much worse that a terrorist can do, and if we're getting three successful suicide bombings a month that's probably a symptom of far worse problems than lax airport security.
--- Most topics have many sides worth arguing, allow me to take one opposite you.
That is very unfair.
You should have said "when you are as crazy as American politicians and large organisations".
"Americans" are no longer in control of their country. Yes one could argue its their own fault, but there is little they can do about it now.
You will find that the "average American" is quite personable and decent as you will in almost any country.
You will also find a bunch of rabid, sociopathic assholes just chafing at the bit to take over everything and fuck everyone in the ass for their own benefit. And woe be to you if you let them gain the reins of power.
Unfortunately...
"Americans" are no longer in control of their country.
"Derp derp derp," I'll give you hint, bucko. When you type on the internet... my ballot still arrives in time for election day.
Very few people voted for the exact sausage that Congress produces. But that doesn't mean we aren't in control of what gets made.
The difference is that a legal advisor hasn't agreed to represent you in a (potentially theoretical) case. It is an idiotic distinction, because if a lawyer agrees to take the case if it arises, then they are in fact your lawyer regarding that issue. This is obvious and necessary when you consider that in civil cases, you're required to attempt to resolve the case before going to court.
They would have to be claiming that Snowden doesn't have an actual potential legal case that she would represent him in, and that she was advising him about matters entirely outside the scope of any potential case. That seems fairly flimsy in an obvious way.
Ok, I see from your two later posts that you are in fact a complete moron. My bad.
Discussion ended.
The best way to combat such government behavior is a real life DDOS. Everyone should report at Heathrow claiming to know Snowden, Assange and de Miranda. Carry encrypted thumb drives with you (chockfull with vile porn ofcourse). Refuse to decrypt without a court order. This will overload the system within 24 hours.
It would be even funnier if millions of ordinary citizens would end up on the no fly list. Report all government personnel and officials for spying! After all, they are part of a government with a broad illegal spying program targeted against their own population. So report them at home and overseas so they end up on no fly lists. Once a critical mass of people disallowed to fly has been reached, especially public servants, these programs will quickly get a review.
And just like a DDOS they would start filtering and dropping packets (ie refusing people entry).
blindly antisocialist = antisocial