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Krugman: Say No To Comcast Acquisition of Time Warner

nbauman writes "In his column, 'Barons of Broadband' New York Times columnist Paul Krugman says: 'Comcast perfectly fits the old notion of monopolists as robber barons, so-called by analogy with medieval warlords who perched in their castles overlooking the Rhine, extracting tolls from all who passed. The Time Warner deal would in effect let Comcast strengthen its fortifications, which has to be a bad idea. Comcast's chief executive says not to worry: "It will not reduce competition in any relevant market because our companies do not overlap or compete with each other. In fact, we do not operate in any of the same ZIP codes." This is, however, transparently disingenuous. The big concern about making Comcast even bigger isn't reduced competition for customers in local markets — for one thing, there's hardly any effective competition at that level anyway. It is that Comcast would have even more power than it already does to dictate terms to the providers of content for its digital pipes — and that its ability to drive tough deals upstream would make it even harder for potential downstream rivals to challenge its local monopolies.'"

38 of 187 comments (clear)

  1. Ok by The+Cat · · Score: 5, Interesting

    Of course they don't compete. Cable companies have government-sanctioned monopolies.

    I'd say give them a choice. You can merge if you relinquish your monopoly.

    Then we'll see what's most important to them.

    1. Re:Ok by hey! · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Well, in a lot of places they have competition from fiber, and places where they *don't* are places where building out a competitive network is unprofitable. Relinquishing the monopoly on cable would be no big deal.

      Krugman's point is that consolidating all those places where cable is the only game in town gives them a powerful middleman position. The monopoly has done its damage as far as the market is concerned; you can take the legal monopoly away and the de facto monopoly on access to the market will remain.

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    2. Re:Ok by Karmashock · · Score: 2

      Exactly.

      Though, I wouldn't give them the choice. I'd just take the government sanction out of it.

      Let them fight it out tooth and nail. I highly doubt one company will dominate the whole country with our diverse conditions if that is done. And furthermore, I'm pretty sure built up areas will have multiple providers.

      One thing which we do need to look into is the rental costs that cities are charging to run cable on poles or under the street. There have been some indications that those prices are unreasonable.

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    3. Re:Ok by admiralh · · Score: 4, Interesting

      Cable is a natural monopoly. Competition really doesn't work in this type of business.

      What we really need is for cable high-speed internet service to be declared a "Common carrier", so they are required to not discriminate against NetFlix, etc.

      --
      Hopelessly pedantic since 1963.
    4. Re:Ok by stinerman · · Score: 2

      Not everwhere is there a monopoly. For instance where I live in Columbus, I can choose from Time Warner or WOW. If you or I or anyone else wanted to, they could set up a company and run their own wires. Guess what? No one else wants to. Last mile connectivity is a natural monopoly and ought to be regulated as a utility.

      As someone else in the comments said, let's require them to split the infrastructure from the services. Then we'll have real competition.

    5. Re:Ok by SQLGuru · · Score: 4, Interesting

      De-regulation along the lines of the power companies? In other words, break apart "generation" and "distribution"......make TV/broadband one entity and then make the lines themselves a different entity. Have the distribution entity charge customers the same rate scale so that other companies can compete on equal footing.

    6. Re:Ok by Obfuscant · · Score: 3, Insightful

      De-regulation along the lines of the power companies? In other words, break apart "generation" and "distribution"......make TV/broadband one entity and then make the lines themselves a different entity. Have the distribution entity charge customers the same rate scale so that other companies can compete on equal footing.

      The problem with this solution is that the cable system isn't designed that way. The electric grid is, in essence, wires. Generators put electrons onto the wire, customers pull them back off. You can't tell where an electron came from, but the utility company bills you for them at the rate of the company you choose (assuming that company has actually put enough electrons onto the wire to cover their customer's use.)

      Cable TV isn't that way. You can't put two channel 5s on the same system. There is a limit to how much can be put on. A provider that gets to use channels 1-20, for example, prevents anyone else from using 1-20. How do you divvy up the limited space? Once you get 83 content providers, you've pretty much used up the full system. And multiple Internet providers would be even worse -- the space is smaller. (And before someone points out that under the wonderful new digital world anything can appear on your TV as "Channel 5", I'm talking about the frequencies and not the arbitrary digital channel id.)

    7. Re:Ok by morgauxo · · Score: 4, Insightful

      I suspect that only people who live in an area with fiber would say that a LOT of places have fiber.

    8. Re:Ok by SQLGuru · · Score: 4, Informative

      In my area, I can actually opt to have Earthlink as my ISP instead of TWC. Earthlink offers a similar service level using the same lines that TWC laid. If I paid Earthlink for my connection, Earthlink would keep some portion and then pay TWC for use of the lines. That's more or less how deregulated power companies operate.

    9. Re:Ok by PopeRatzo · · Score: 2

      Because that worked so well with Enron.

      You think Enron blew up because the separated the transport from the content?

      --
      You are welcome on my lawn.
    10. Re:Ok by icebike · · Score: 3, Informative

      Well, in a lot of places they have competition from fiber, and places where they *don't* are places where building out a competitive network is unprofitable. Relinquishing the monopoly on cable would be no big deal.

      In vastly more places there is exactly ONE cable plant in the ground. There is no competition.
      Further, most municipalities will not allow building out competitive networks, simply because the disruption is so great.
      These plants went in when the neighborhood was built, and no late comers will be allowed.

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    11. Re:Ok by icebike · · Score: 2

      Exactly.

      Force them to divest themselves of TV content providers, Networks, Studios, etc.

      It may still not be enough. They have phone packages too. Does that mean they get to *block* VOIP, SIP, and other internet phone services?
      (And when I say block I also mean use speeds or pricing to force it off the internet side of Comcast).

         

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    12. Re:Ok by cusco · · Score: 2

      So cities should have to give the mega-corps lower prices than the power companies do? Almost everywhere they charge the same as whatever local utilities charge, why should municipalities have to subsidize multinational corporations? Of course the charge is more than it actually costs the city to maintain that pole, so what? If they were out of town the price charged by PG&E or Puget Sound Energy or Detroit Edison is going to be more than it actually costs them to maintain the pole as well. I personally think that the whole idea that municipalities should be happy to give away everything that's not nailed down to the mega-corps is utterly absurd.

      --
      "Think about how stupid the average person is. Now, realise that half of them are dumber than that." - George Carlin
    13. Re:Ok by icebike · · Score: 4, Interesting

      Cable is a natural monopoly. Competition really doesn't work in this type of business.

      What we really need is for cable high-speed internet service to be declared a "Common carrier", so they are required to not discriminate against NetFlix, etc.

      Or pry the last mile out of the fingers of cable companies and put it in the hands of Local government, like streets, water, sewer.
      That way the local rate-payers and tax payers can allow multiple content and internet providers, and maintain their own fiber/cable plant.

      Natural monopolies require special treatment.

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      Sig Battery depleted. Reverting to safe mode.
    14. Re:Ok by cusco · · Score: 4, Informative

      Enron's market manipulations were enabled by separating production from transmission. If they had been required to sell for Generation Cost + X% (the old rule) there wouldn't have been the rolling blackouts and grotesque pricing.

      --
      "Think about how stupid the average person is. Now, realise that half of them are dumber than that." - George Carlin
    15. Re:Ok by jedidiah · · Score: 3, Insightful

      > Because the market isn't there.

      Yet cities decide to take matters into the own hands only to be subjected to corruption of their own state government at the hands of the Robber Baron in question.

      --
      A Pirate and a Puritan look the same on a balance sheet.
    16. Re:Ok by cusco · · Score: 2

      Are you off the odd opinion that the savings would be passed on to the consumer? If so, why? Have you not been paying attention for the last half-century? All a lower price from the public sector would do is reduce the municipality's operating budget and improve the mega-corp's profit level.

      --
      "Think about how stupid the average person is. Now, realise that half of them are dumber than that." - George Carlin
    17. Re:Ok by desertfool · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Time to kill my Karma....

      I was living in Arizona at the time of the rolling blackouts in California. I remember newspaper stories about how APS and TEP (Arizona power companies) were planning to build power lines to northern Mexico to sell their excess power. Now, I don't know what power lines existed between Arizona and California at the time, but I would assume 2 big power companies with excess power (to the point they wanted to build lines across the border!) would have been able to add power to southern California.

      --
      Just a dude. Stuck in IT.
    18. Re:Ok by Obfuscant · · Score: 2

      And, again, this is only a concern on an ANALOG CABLE SETUP. On a digital setup. You simply don't deal directly with channelization.

      I didn't say the customer dealt with channelization. The hardware does. How do you think the data streams are encoded on a cable network? Magic? Floobydust? It's not some big 100baseT network with data packets flying all over the place. There are some limited number of digital streams encoded onto an RF carrier, and each RF signal is carried on the cable just like the old analog one-station-per-channel signals were. At 6MHz each, an 800MHz system can get 118 or so "channels", and that's pushing it unless you are VERY fastidious in your connections.

      So ok, you hand a channel over to a content provider. How does that provider authorize you to get it? Shares the OOB channel, I guess. And he gets only 2 to ten reasonable quality digital streams per channel. You think you can pack two full-service cable systems into one existing cable? Patent it. If your answer is to turn every channel into "on demand", then don't bother.

      In fact, it's just like the current OTA digital, with the addition of OOB control for authorization, and the digital signals are often encrypted so a standard clearQAM ATV cannot display them.

      Maybe, at some level there's still channelization, but it's abstracted away from the content and entirely manageable in software.

      Yes, at some level there is channelization, and that level is the hardware level. It's how the signal moves over the cable. You can't just wave your hands and say "it's software" because no, it isn't. The software comes after the digital signal is decoded.

      The fact that the little box on top of your TV can show you any number the cable company wants it to changes nothing about the underlying transport which is still analog RF and channelized. And changing that would mean rebuilding the entire network and replacing all the existing hardware, including consumer-owned equipment.

    19. Re:Ok by AlphaWolf_HK · · Score: 2

      The biggest thing is, I'm having a hard time figuring out why I should care if the content providers have to deal with a monopoly. They themselves already have a monopoly on the content they produce, and they're the biggest pushers of cable rate increases by raising the crap out of the retransmission fees all the time.

      Hell, ESPN alone sucks up about $15 a month from your cable bill, regardless of whether you watch it or not (I don't, or rather didn't before I got rid of cable.) How on earth could you have sympathy for them?

      It's also the content providers' fault that over the top (that is, internet based) TV projects like the ones created by Intel, Google, and Apple have all failed: The content providers put heavy restrictions on their distribution media in order to force subscribers to subscribe to each other's networks, even if they don't want to.

      IMO let them do this so that the pay TV industry can finally destroy itself from the inside out by pricing itself out of the market.

      --
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    20. Re:Ok by Vitriol+Angst · · Score: 3, Insightful

      In my state they "deregulated" our Natural Gas supply. Now they've got about 2 dozen companies I can shop with -- only they cost about 5 times what we used to pay for Natural Gas. The same guys who install and cut off your gas are the same guys now -- only they have no job security and they can work for any of 2 dozen companies that someone has to bill and compensate them for. Same work, less pay.

      You call them and get either a robot "Your call is important to us, press 3 if you would like another series of options" or you get someone after a long wait who is doing a passing job with English and can't solve any of your problems.

      So one pipe, one gas supply, 24 different P.O. Boxes and bills that have "transfer fees" and every few months a new company runs a special because it's their turn.
      I've got no interest in a pretend free market on one pipe without regulations.

      --
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    21. Re:Ok by Belial6 · · Score: 2

      The 'natural monopoly' argument just doesn't hold water. The cable companies have a monopoly because government gives them a monopoly. If the government stopped doing that, you would see competition by new players almost immediately. The fact that the phone and cable companies are regularly using the courts to prevent competition from entering their markets is pretty solid proof of this.

  2. Who is he talking to by neminem · · Score: 3, Interesting

    Certainly not us. We don't really have a choice. Comcast could merge with freaking Verizon, thus giving us the granddaddy of all broadband monopolies and dooming to forever pay too much money for a crappy connection and no recourse when stuff breaks (which would be often), and our choices would be to suck it up, or just suck it. So I'm not sure what he thinks we should be doing about it...?

  3. Comcast challengers? What is K been smoking? by mveloso · · Score: 2

    Who exactly is rising up to challenge cable monopolies? What downstream challengers is he talking about? Netflix? Aereo?

    Did someone forget to pay off Krugman today?

    1. Re:Comcast challengers? What is K been smoking? by MarkWegman · · Score: 3, Interesting

      If you read the article you'd know he was pointing out that with this merger Comcast could force other companies that provide them with content sweetheart deals.

    2. Re:Comcast challengers? What is K been smoking? by evilviper · · Score: 4, Interesting

      Who exactly is rising up to challenge cable monopolies? What downstream challengers is he talking about? Netflix? Aereo?

      Netflix, Hulu, Amazon, Apple, Google, etc.

      If I'm some dinky little neighborhood cable company, and I'm negotiating a contract with Viacom for carriage on my network (with my 30,000 subscribers) and I insist that part of the agreement is that they can't license any of their shows/movies for streaming from Netflix, Viacom would tell me to fuck off.

      Now, if it's Comcast instead, Viacom has a hard choice... Do they cut access to all their shows off from the 40 million Netflix subscribers, or from the 30 million Comcast subscribers? How about if they do the same to HBO, and their DVD releases have to be delayed an extra year...?

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    3. Re:Comcast challengers? What is K been smoking? by hermitdev · · Score: 3, Interesting

      Except the fact that Comcast has methodically been working on both vertical and horizontal monopolies. Did you miss their acquisition of NBC Universal? Funny thing about that acquisition, as a Comcast subscriber, I lost channels I used to have. One offhand was Universal Sports. Between then Versus, now NBC Sports Networks and Universal Sports, I used to be able get TV coverage of nearly all major cycling events. Comcast dropped Universal Sports, and now the only cycling I can get are maybe 1 or 2 spring races, and the grand tours.

  4. Let them merge then split by sanosuke001 · · Score: 5, Interesting

    Let them merge and then split into two companies; the one that owns the fiber/hardware and the one that sells services. Force the hardware company to sell bandwidth to anyone that wants to offer services.

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    -SaNo
    1. Re:Let them merge then split by phantomfive · · Score: 2

      Agreed. If you aren't going to do that, it doesn't matter much if they merge or not.

      --
      "First they came for the slanderers and i said nothing."
    2. Re:Let them merge then split by Obfuscant · · Score: 3, Informative
      While this kind of arrangement has finally worked itself out in the telecom divestiture, for a long time it was a big big mess. Especially messy for the consumer who was stuck trying to get problems fixed. "It's the local loop." "It's your long distance provider". "If we come out to fix the wire and it turns out to be your CPE, we'll charge you a large fee for a visit."

      And for a very long time it was a real battleground for the long distance carriers (i.e. "content"). Consumers would get called regularly trying to get them to change carriers, and then get "slammed" -- involuntary changes. You'd get a number that started out 10-xxx-... and find out after you called it that you had manually picked a shyster LD company that charged astronomical rates.

      Sure, yeah, let's do it all again with cable TV.

    3. Re:Let them merge then split by sanosuke001 · · Score: 2

      Except they know the issues now for the most part; they can do it right if they want.

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      -SaNo
    4. Re:Let them merge then split by don.g · · Score: 3, Informative

      The trick is to have the lines providers wholesale to the retail ISPs/etc, who then provide CPE. If the service doesn't work, the end user's contract is with their retail service provider, who has to sort it out, no matter where the problem is. That's how it works here in New Zealand on our fancy new fibre network that's slowly replacing the old copper phone network. It's mostly how it worked on the old copper network, too.

      My ISP (Orcon) provide CPE (a router with voice ports) that plugs into the fibre company's ONT. If the internet or phone doesn't work, it's Orcon's problem. I don't have a contractual relationship with the fibre company so if it's the fibre that's down, it's still Orcon's problem as far as I'm concerned.

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  5. Exactly. Why take it. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Interesting

    I stopped my cable because I couldnt' take being fucked anymore by Comcast.

    When I tell others why, they just say, "Good for you. I can't give up my sports."

    There you go. People love their bread and circuses. They are sheep. They want their NFL and College (slave) ball (its funny that they ARE mostly African American and getting paid shit!). And yet, NFL, ESPN and whatnot are making millions or billions.

    I'm not trying to start trouble here, but the black man is still getting exploited..

    Just say'in.

  6. As a Comcast employee... by Slartibartfast · · Score: 5, Interesting

    I don't really know how I feel about the acquisition. I think some of the things Krugman talks about -- e.g., no incentive to upgrade networks -- certainly has validity; I also know that we *HATE* network congestion, and just in my unit, alone, spend tens of millions a year to avoid it. Of course, without incentive, that's just 'cause we feel like doing that, not because we have to.

    The one that has me really, truly worried, though, is Net Neutrality. I am *STRONGLY* in favor of the FCC saying "F*** you all: it's time," and pushing it out. I think that neutrality, combined with the rise (and eventual commoditization) of cellular networks, as well as good ol' Ma Bell and DSL, will be able to offer competing solutions. Of course, then there's satellite, as well, but the inherent latency makes that a poorer option by definition.

    Comcast is, however, essentially right: they don't compete with other cable companies because of the infrastructure; one thing that might be interesting -- though I have a sneaking suspicion Republicans would cry foul about over-regulation all day long -- would be if the gov't enforced a move akin to the telecom and power companies: if cable companies could offer the landline connection, but you were able to get service from anyone. That would go a great way toward leveling the playing field.

  7. You're mistaken, though. by Slartibartfast · · Score: 2

    Comcast *does* compete with Verizon -- directly. Their FiOS and DSL options are direct competition for both TV and high-speed Internet -- in the *same* geographic region -- that Comcast offers. There's no way in Hell the gov't would approve an acquisition or merger of those two.

  8. Re:Paul Krugman, 1998 by jcr · · Score: 4, Funny

    Krugman admits to not be a technologist.

    Well, that's a start. Let us know when he admits to not being an economist.

    -jcr

    --
    The only title of honor that a tyrant can grant is "Enemy of the State."
  9. Re:Paul Krugman, 1998 by jedidiah · · Score: 3, Insightful

    > I disagree. The burden of proof is on those who want to interfere with the right of the rightful owners of these companies to dispose of their property as they damn well please.

    We already have experience in these areas. We even wrote a body of laws to address this particular problem. There is nothing new or interesting here.

    We just have libertardians trying to pretend that history doesn't exist and these kinds of problems haven't happened before.

    Your notion of capitalism is about 150 years out of date.

    --
    A Pirate and a Puritan look the same on a balance sheet.
  10. Re:Paul Krugman, 1998 by gizmo2199 · · Score: 2

    So if the economy is depressed because the government is "printing money", why is inflation so low? (1.64% per year since 2008) Why isn't it 20% or higher as has been the case in other economic crises such as in Brazil or Argentina in the 1980s? Furthermore, the move toward consolidation has more to do with deregulation, than with "government monopolies."--the exact opposite. Companies are sitting on so much money (because of lower tax rates, higher stock prices, etc), that it's easier for them to buy their competitors than to invest in their operations to get new customers. Which leads these companies to have even less of an incentive to invest in higher speed broadband, or offer better prices for their customers. That was the whole point of Krugman's article.

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