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Face Masks Provide Chinese With False Hope Against Pollution

Hugh Pickens DOT Com writes "Emily Sohn reports at Discovery Magazine that high levels of air pollution in Beijing, where levels of pollution have spiked above 750 micrograms per cubic meter, have caused a run on face masks as people look for ways to protect themselves from the smog. The capital is on its sixth day of an 'orange' smog alert — the second-highest on the scale — with the air tasting gritty and visibility down to a few hundred meters. But experts say that under the hazards they're facing, the masks are unlikely to help much. In fact, images of masked citizens navigating the streets of Beijing highlight the false confidence that people put in face masks in all sorts of situations, including flu outbreaks and operating rooms. For a step up in protection, consumers can buy a category of mask known technically as N95 respirators, which are generally available at hardware stores. N95 facemasks are often used in industrial workplace situations to protect against things like lead dust and welding fumes, and they are certified by the National Institute for Occupational Safety and Health to trap 95 percent of particles sent through them in testing situations. But in order to work N95 respirators need to be professionally fitted to each person's individual face (PDF) to make sure there is a tight seal with no leaks. If they truly fit right, they are uncomfortable to wear."

106 of 156 comments (clear)

  1. Cab driver in Shanghai by eric31415927 · · Score: 5, Funny

    Masks are magically thought to prevent everything.
    A friend of mine caught a cab in Shanghai during one of its more scary bird flu outbreaks.
    The cab driver wore a mask with a hole cut out of it for his cigarette.

    1. Re:Cab driver in Shanghai by sjames · · Score: 2

      Because naturally, it's impossible for a mask in one country to qualify for any sort of certification in another. Little known fact, The IETF had to re-do all of the RFCs for each individual country.

    2. Re:Cab driver in Shanghai by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      The laws of physics change when you enter China, rendering all the testing that NIOSH did to establish which masks were safe under which conditions completely irrelevant to the problem.

    3. Re:Cab driver in Shanghai by Jane+Q.+Public · · Score: 3, Insightful

      "That's not much different than the summary's author, who seems to think that the National Institute for Occupational Safety and Health sets standards in China."

      ... or that N95 masks are to be found in neighborhood hardware stores in China.

    4. Re:Cab driver in Shanghai by Mashiki · · Score: 3, Funny

      There's an occupational heath and safety standard in China? I thought it was "if you survive a day on the job, you'll go far in this world."

      --
      Om, nomnomnom...
    5. Re:Cab driver in Shanghai by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      Well it depends on the hardware store, but it doesn't matter since everyone buys everything from taobao or yihaodian anyway. Taobao sells all sorts of respirator masks:

      http://detail.tmall.com/item.htm?spm=a230r.1.14.11.l8ErDA&id=26615012067

    6. Re:Cab driver in Shanghai by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      Oh laugh, I've seen worse. I used to go to a restaurant (closed a few years ago). I would watch a senior who was on oxygen remove the mask, take a bite, chew, replace the mask, repeat. Then, when he was finished (there is no smoking in the restaurant), drag the oxygen bottle out to his car, hoist the bottle onto the hood, with the engine running and the hose to the mask through the mostly rolled up window (in winter), and alternate between puffs on the cigarette, and puffs on the mask. Die hard nik fit, with emphasis on either die, or emphysema.

    7. Re:Cab driver in Shanghai by Firethorn · · Score: 1

      If I remember right, they do, and it's probably like their pollution standards - on the book as the best in the world, but having so little bite that you have to create a national/global scandal in order to actually have them enforced against you.

      Such as putting melamine in milk. A couple people were executed for that one.

      --
      I don't read AC A human right
    8. Re:Cab driver in Shanghai by Mashiki · · Score: 1

      If I remember right, they do, and it's probably like their pollution standards - on the book as the best in the world, but having so little bite that you have to create a national/global scandal in order to actually have them enforced against you.

      Such as putting melamine in milk. A couple people were executed for that one.

      Oh, the laws probably have plenty of bite. The reality is if you have enough money to grease people the right way, such as in the melamine in the milk, rice, and a few other things it can go away for a very long time. And as a fun point, this continues to be a serious issue in Asia, especially with Japan and S.Korea and Chinese imports, not so much with the Americas or Europe which is rather odd.

      --
      Om, nomnomnom...
    9. Re:Cab driver in Shanghai by donscarletti · · Score: 1

      I bought 3 boxes of the 3M 8210V respirator on Taobao, they are not hard to come by. Plenty of my Chinese coworkers also buy other types of 3M N95 masks.

      --
      When Argumentum ad Hominem falls short, try Argumentum ad Matrem
    10. Re:Cab driver in Shanghai by jafiwam · · Score: 1

      That's not much different than the summary's author, who seems to think that the National Institute for Occupational Safety and Health sets standards in China.

      And that N95 masks are "professionally fit" and uncomfortable.

      Neither statement is true, first, they come in four or so sizes: small, medium, large and extra large. You put them on, tighten the straps a bit and bend the metal wire. They go for about 14 bucks for a box of ten. They have a metal band at the top just like medical masks.

      In fact it IS a glorified medical mask with the addition of an exhaust valve for exhaling.

      They are quite useful around the home if you ever do any type of home maintenance or "projects" yourself. But they aren't professionally fit by any means.

      Subby is confusing an actual "dust mask" with rubber casing and filters.

    11. Re:Cab driver in Shanghai by Firethorn · · Score: 1

      For all the corruption we hear about in the USA and Europe, it's nothing compared to the majority of other countries.

      As for the laws, that's pretty much what I meant - grease the right wheels, which is easy, and you can indeed get away with that stuff for long periods of time.

      I think that it's because the USA has sufficient court and enforcement systems that any such activities aren't worth it - major companies dominate the market, it's too hard to form a 'fly by night' company selling stuff for a relatively short period of time before you disappear(and show up under a different name) for selling substandard/defective crap.

      --
      I don't read AC A human right
    12. Re:Cab driver in Shanghai by Immerman · · Score: 1

      Pegasus feathers do the job wonderfully. Unfortunately the pollution-purifying properties work against the pegasii themselves, concentrating the toxins in their bodies, which has resulted in their near-total extinction centuries ago when bronze-smelting first started venting large quantities of toxic compounds into the air. However, I just so happen to have a precious few available, for the right price...

      --
      --- Most topics have many sides worth arguing, allow me to take one opposite you.
    13. Re:Cab driver in Shanghai by Jane+Q.+Public · · Score: 1

      "I bought 3 boxes of the 3M 8210V respirator on Taobao, they are not hard to come by. Plenty of my Chinese coworkers also buy other types of 3M N95 masks."

      I didn't say they weren't available. I wrote about them being in every neighborhood hardware store. Not the same thing.

    14. Re:Cab driver in Shanghai by gzuckier · · Score: 1

      to think that Thoreau believed a trout in the milk would be notable.

      --
      Star Trek transporters are just 3d printers.
    15. Re:Cab driver in Shanghai by Jane+Q.+Public · · Score: 1

      "Nope. In stores != in every store."

      Did you read the chain of comments you're replying to?

      "or that N95 masks are to be found in neighborhood hardware stores in China."

    16. Re:Cab driver in Shanghai by Jane+Q.+Public · · Score: 1

      "So, rather than being surprised they're in China, maybe you should be surprised that after being MADE IN CHINA they're shipped all over the world (even your neighborhood hardware store)."

      You're trying to imply that I meant something other than what I actually wrote.

      Don't do that. It's rude.

    17. Re:Cab driver in Shanghai by Jane+Q.+Public · · Score: 1

      Nobody said they were 'in every neighborhood hardware store.' The summary said they were "generally available in hardware stores."

      Did you read the chain of comments you're replying to?

      "... or that N95 masks are to be found in neighborhood hardware stores in China."

  2. Popular misconception re: face masks in influenza by Rob+Simpson · · Score: 5, Informative

    The use of face masks in flu outbreaks is to prevent the spread of droplets from the person with the flu. (Note that it's possible to shed and spread influenza before you realize that you're infected.) But a face mask is worthless at protected you from getting the flu if you touch near your eyes after touching an infected surface. Hand washing and being conscious about touching your face is more important.

  3. China not part of the US by khallow · · Score: 1

    But in order to work N95 respirators need to be professionally fitted to each person's individual face to make sure there is a tight seal with no leaks.

    Only if you are trying to comply with US regulations, say because you work at Stanford University (the source of the linked document). Since any hypothetical "professional" fitters in China would not be complying with US regulation, there's no guarantee that they would fit properly. It would have been better to link to generic fitting instructions for the masks in question as that would actually be useful.

    1. Re:China not part of the US by nurb432 · · Score: 2

      I could be wrong I think the 'need to' was implied as the act needed for it to work, not from the 'legal' angle.

      Aside from that, i would think even an ill fitting respirator would be better than nothing.

      --
      ---- Booth was a patriot ----
    2. Re:China not part of the US by Silvanis · · Score: 1

      Probably not. Considering you have to pull the air through the filters, then any gap between the mask and you becomes the path of least resistance.

    3. Re:China not part of the US by Firethorn · · Score: 1

      It would have been better to link to generic fitting instructions for the masks in question as that would actually be useful.

      I think they're also overstating the difficulty. At least for my mask(which is rated tougher than 95% of particles) there's 3 basic mask sizes. If you're extremely tiny you might need a different type.

      Expedient fitting - put a sample of each of the 3 masks on, picking the one that's 'tight, but not too tight'. Strap it down, then block the filters. Can't breath with your hands over the filter openings? You have a good seal.

      --
      I don't read AC A human right
    4. Re:China not part of the US by Lodlaiden · · Score: 1

      I wonder where all these N95 masks available in US hardware stores are manufactured.

      --
      Suborbital [spaceflight] is the special olympics of spaceflight. - Rei
    5. Re:China not part of the US by Immerman · · Score: 1

      Just how much resistance do the filters introduce? If a poor-fitting mask still reduces the pollution you're inhaling by half, that's still a big advantage. Certainly I would want a well-fitted mask if it's job was to filter out nerve gas or other "kill/maim you quick" toxins, but for something where the problem is chronic exposure half-measures are at least better than nothing.

      --
      --- Most topics have many sides worth arguing, allow me to take one opposite you.
  4. pollution by MrL0G1C · · Score: 4, Informative

    Latest data from the Commons Environment Audit Committee warns that up to 50,000 people each year are meeting a premature death in the UK thanks to air pollution, with an annual health care bill of up to £20.2 billion. The biggest culprit? Transport, responsible for 70 percent of pollution in towns and cities.

    That's the UK, the pollution in China is worse by orders of magnitude, literally millions of people a year will be dying there from lung diseases.

    People don't take traffic pollution seriously because they can't see it, even though the number of deaths caused dwarfs vehicle accident deaths.

    --
    Waterfox - a Firefox fork with legacy extension support, security updates and better privacy by default.
  5. When I was working near asbestos by dbIII · · Score: 4, Informative

    When I was working near asbestos nobody told me that the masks had to be "professionally fitted" so I doubt the journalist knows more than they googled about the topic.
    However they certainly are uncomfortable especially with safety goggles pushing them down on your nose.

    1. Re:When I was working near asbestos by Registered+Coward+v2 · · Score: 1

      When I was working near asbestos nobody told me that the masks had to be "professionally fitted" so I doubt the journalist knows more than they googled about the topic. However they certainly are uncomfortable especially with safety goggles pushing them down on your nose.

      While I am not sure what was meant by "professionally fitted," there is a right and wrong way to wear a mask. They are uncomfortable when fitted for a proper tight seal, and I would not be surprised if many people who have never been shown the proper way to put one on and fit it aid up with them too loose to be of any use because it is more comfortable that way. If you didn't have mask face after taking one off it was too loose.

      --
      I'm a consultant - I convert gibberish into cash-flow.
    2. Re:When I was working near asbestos by Piata · · Score: 2

      This seems like common sense though. I've worn one of these masks and it's pretty easy to tell if you have a proper seal. Of course I couldn't imagine having to wear one all day without breaks. My face gets sore and my mouth gets dry after wearing one for just a few hours.

    3. Re:When I was working near asbestos by ColdWetDog · · Score: 3, Informative

      No, it's not rocket science, but many people can't figure out how to size the mask by themselves. The typical error is to get one that is too large. You also can't use them if you have a beard so you have to use another type of mask (in the US where we have OSHA running around). At my hospital, we have one nurse who is the mask fitter. She went to some classes and has to do an occasional webinar but it's not like she has a degree in 'maskology'.

      --
      Faster! Faster! Faster would be better!
    4. Re:When I was working near asbestos by petermgreen · · Score: 1

      The problem is that to be effective a mask has to seal to the face so that the air is forced through the mask rather than bypassing it round the sides but the face has an awkward shape and tends to move.

      --
      note: i'm known as plugwash most places but i screwd up registering that here somehow in the past and now can't register
    5. Re:When I was working near asbestos by The+Grim+Reefer · · Score: 1

      While I am not sure what was meant by "professionally fitted,"

      I was wondering the same thing. N95 are one time use disposable masks. Do you need to get them professionally fitted every time you put one on? I'm guessing it's more likely you are supposed to get someone to tell you what size is best suited for you. In the case you can't figure it out yourself.

    6. Re:When I was working near asbestos by anubi · · Score: 1

      Somehow I keep thinking of a pneumatic silicone rubber seal, kinda like a molded innertube fitted to a typical face contour.

      Variances in the surface would deform and displace its fill fluid, whose internal pressure would maintain the seal as the face contours change.

      I have a sound-cancellation headset with some technology like this on the earpieces. They seal pretty well, yet are so comfortable I wear the headset on cold days to keep my ears warm.

      --
      "Prove all things; hold fast that which is good." [KJV: I Thessalonians 5:21]

    7. Re:When I was working near asbestos by DarkOx · · Score: 1

      Where I work I know they check the plant floor guys and they get sent home if they have not shaved thoroughly because it could cause mask fit/seal issues.

      --
      Repeal the 17th Amendment TODAY! Also Please Read http://www.gnu.org/philosophy/right-to-read.html
    8. Re:When I was working near asbestos by zippthorne · · Score: 1

      One would assume that many women won't have enough facial hair to require shaving to meet the requirements.

      --
      Can you be Even More Awesome?!
    9. Re:When I was working near asbestos by mrchaotica · · Score: 1

      So just keep making the mask cover a larger and larger area until you find part of the head that works better to seal against. Maybe it'll end up looking like one of those masks from Avatar (or maybe even a spacesuit helmet), but sooner or later you'll find a design that's comfortable.

      --

      "[Regarding the 'cloud,'] ownership was what made America different than Russia." -- Woz

    10. Re:When I was working near asbestos by jafac · · Score: 4, Informative

      yeah - if it takes effort to draw-in breath, then you have a proper seal. (used to wear one spray painting).

      --

      These are my friends, See how they glisten. See this one shine, how he smiles in the light.
    11. Re:When I was working near asbestos by dbIII · · Score: 1

      do you think they'd be interested in the sex disparity amongst those who work dangerous jobs that require masks?

      Only if you are talking about Catwoman.

    12. Re:When I was working near asbestos by TapeCutter · · Score: 1

      Yep, I found putting one on was pretty much the same as getting a skin diving mask to seal properly. I don't think Joe public actually believes cheap paper mask are as good as an industrial respirator, it's obvious they leak when you wear one, but they're better than nothing and cost next to nothing.

      --
      And did you exchange a walk on part in the war for a lead role in a cage? - Pink Floyd.
    13. Re:When I was working near asbestos by theshowmecanuck · · Score: 2

      I was in charge of respiratory protection at one facility. These n95 masks should never be used for anything like asbestos. You need half (pictured with hepa stacked with organics filter) or full face silicone respirator masks with hepa filters. Those masks require you to be clean shaven and proper fitting. Any paper mask provides only rudimentary filtering. They should not be used when exposure to anything really hazardous is likely. In our case people were handling very large bulk shipments of quartz, with a lot of crystalline silica dust. Another good use of these is for welders to avoid welding fume... they make full face welding respirator masks too. You can even get them powered to make it easier to breathe with the added cooling benefit of the air flow.

      Same idea if you are using other materials, but you may need to attach other replaceable filter types to the mask, like filters for organic vapours (real meaning of organic in science) etc.

      For really hazardous conditions in other areas, we used supplied air on backpack for short duration, and with remote supplied air (racks of very large tanks of certified breathing air) for long duration... With full safety suits when required.

      --
      -- I ignore anonymous replies to my comments and postings.
    14. Re:When I was working near asbestos by floodo1 · · Score: 1

      Sorry that your companies safety policies didn't expose you to the concept of respirator fit-testing. When I was working near asbestos, or even potentially near asbestos (unknown attics) we were required to get fit-tested for our respirators. Whose anecdote wins?

      --
      I KUT J00 M4NG!!!
    15. Re:When I was working near asbestos by Fjandr · · Score: 1

      Oh, comfortable masks most certainly exist. They tend to be full enclosure masks though, in order to be supported by structures other than the bridge of your nose. As a result, they're hideously expensive compared to half-masks.

    16. Re:When I was working near asbestos by dbIII · · Score: 1

      Whose anecdote wins?

      Obviously both and the guy who quoted a standard above too.
      In other words I'm not playing a game even if you are.

  6. Orange alert?! by Dachannien · · Score: 1

    The capital is on its sixth day of an 'orange' smog alert â" the second-highest on the scale â" with the air tasting gritty and visibility down to a few hundred meters.

    You mean it can get worse?!

    1. Re:Orange alert?! by fuzzyfuzzyfungus · · Score: 3, Funny

      'Red' smog alert is expressed by drawing the chinese pictogram for 'sandpaper' inside the pictogram for 'lungs'.

      (yes, I know that that's absolutely bullshit; but I've had enough of that 'Since I've been strongarmed into giving a commencement address to H.S. 341232's singularly uninteresting class, did you know that the Chinese word for 'crisis' is the combination of their word for 'danger' with their word for 'opportunity'? Really makes you think, doesn't it? Now, don't get too shiftfaced in college, what you learn there costs you more per hour than you are ever likely to make, so keep that in mind. And, um, Go class of 2000-and-something!'

    2. Re:Orange alert?! by Anomalyst · · Score: 1

      > you can cave it into the air
      Stalagmites are optional

      --
      There is no right to feel safe thru security vaudeville at the expense of everyone's freedom, privacy and tax money.
  7. It'll be fine by goldcd · · Score: 2

    What Shanghai is going through is that London (and pretty much every participant in the industrial revolution went through) - just this is a bit later.
    China will put in place (and actually enforce) environmental controls, and it'll all be fine.

    1. Re:It'll be fine by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      What Shanghai is going through is that London (and pretty much every participant in the industrial revolution went through) - just this is a bit later.

      China will put in place (and actually enforce) environmental controls, and it'll all be fine.

      That must be why they are building coal fired power plants like there is no tomorrow.

    2. Re:It'll be fine by sjames · · Score: 1

      The participants in the 1st industrial revolution had an excuse. China knows very well what the consequences are (through the benefit of 20/20 hindsight) but shows no sign of giving a damn.

    3. Re:It'll be fine by CodeBuster · · Score: 3, Insightful

      It's more complicated than that. China has hundreds of millions of people all desperately struggling to pull themselves up into the middle class. They know how Americans, Europeans and their successful Chinese peers live because it's in their faces every day through ubiquitous advertising and ostentatious public displays of wealth. They want the trappings of that consumer lifestyle so badly that they don't care what they have to do to get them. Who wants to be the one to tell them, "no you can't have that because it will ruin the environment"? Against these base desires of human nature, no amount of logic or reasoning about consequences can prevail.

    4. Re:It'll be fine by sjames · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Except that their choice is not poison everyone until they drop like flies or remain a poor agrarian society. They have the benefit of a century of research into how to industrialize without poisoning people. They have the option to find a happy medium.

    5. Re:It'll be fine by techno-vampire · · Score: 1

      Building factories (and especially power plants) that don't pollute costs considerably more, and takes longer. If the Chinese want to industrialize as fast as possible, they may not be willing to accept the extra costs, both in time and money, that it would take to do it the clean way. Think of it as a form of instant gratification.

      --
      Good, inexpensive web hosting
    6. Re:It'll be fine by sjames · · Score: 1

      And therein lies the foolishness or evil. I say evil because the odds are the people profiting most from those factories live well away from the choking air and deadly water they create.

    7. Re:It'll be fine by jafac · · Score: 1

      having a sick and dying workforce is not a way to grow an economy.

      --

      These are my friends, See how they glisten. See this one shine, how he smiles in the light.
    8. Re:It'll be fine by timeOday · · Score: 1

      In the meanwhile, tens of millions of people will be killed by the pollution. But then, after that, I'll be fine.

    9. Re:It'll be fine by CodeBuster · · Score: 1

      You misunderstand. I don't feel sorry for the Chinese. On the contrary, they made their beds and they can sleep in them. I was responding to the parent, of my original post, so that he would understand the absurdity of using the environmental argument with China. There are many people out there who live for today and don't give a damn about tomorrow because they figure we're all dead in the long run anyway and they don't care. The Chinese seem to be of this mindset, as indicated by their own choices and actions. Trying to frame a debate as "either or" when your antagonist responds with "neither" or "don't care" doesn't get you anywhere, it's futile.

    10. Re:It'll be fine by CodeBuster · · Score: 1

      China is not only going through an industrial revolution, but also a technocratic and political revolution.

      China is already industrialized and the Communist Party remains firmly in control. I wouldn't call that a revolution. If anything it's a challenge to the United States and the Washington Consensus of how economies grow and prosper. It says to the rest of the developing world that you can have economic growth and prosperity without the chaos and inefficiency of democracy. That's the real danger of China, not their budding military or industrial might. They make good arguments for results based growth that Obama and others in the west have been slow to respond to with mostly unsatisfying answers. Obama meanwhile seams content to preside over the decline of American power, ruining by his disastrous policies many of our foreign policy achievements since the end of WWII. I've liked few enough Presidents in my time thus far, but Obama is the first one in my opinion to deliberately seek to undermine the nation that he swore to protect and lead.

  8. The work / factories will just move to the next pl by Joe_Dragon · · Score: 3, Insightful

    The work / factories will just move to the next place that take the jobs at any cost.

  9. What does the author know about N95 masks? by NimbleSquirrel · · Score: 5, Informative

    As someone who has worked in an industrial environment, and who has had to wear respirators and other PPE, I can say that N95 respirators do not need to be 'professionally fitted'. They do need to fit just right, but the users themselves can do that. Yes, they can be uncomfortable if you've never worn a mask before, but once you are used to them you can wear them all day (as many many workers do everyday).

    While the author focusses on fitting, he completely ignores the other issue with N95 masks: there are many different types that are designed to filter different things. There are different masks for dusts and particles, nuisance odours, welding fumes, acid gasses, organic vapors and biologicals. The author ignores that people will need to know what type of respirator they need as buying the wrong type will make it far less effective. Not all N95 respirators are the same. For a sutiation like this, a dust and particle filter with nuisance level acid gas (NOx, SO2, etc) would be better, but unlikely to be found at many hardware stores.

    What people don't seem to realise is that the gasses that make up smog (CO, NOx, SO2, ozone, organic compounds) can be just as damaging, if not more, than the dust and particulates. Even N95 masks only filter out nuisance levels of these.

    1. Re:What does the author know about N95 masks? by drinkypoo · · Score: 1

      Literally the only problem with respirators is beards. You just can't wear one if you have a beard. I mean, you can, but they don't work right. They kind of work once you've really sweated and your beard has matted down.

      I read an article about modifying a shower cap to fit over the bottom of your face and seal to the respirator.

      Not a big problem for China.

      In any case, any N95 respirator which is effective against organic solvents etc will work for them here. The filter will be fairly effective at trapping the soot and it'll trap the most dangerous constituents of their atmosphere. But you can also get a dust filter which says N95 on it which will only do a mediocre job of trapping particulates.

      --
      "You're right," Fisheye says. "I should have set it on 'whip' or 'chop.'"
  10. Re:Not possible by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Insightful

    That's essentially why we have such a crap economy. If the US would stop importing stuff that was produced using methods that are illegal domestically, local production would be a lot more competitive.

  11. Go Full Heisenberg by l0ungeb0y · · Score: 4, Funny

    Whenever I'm in Beijing, I like to rock my IIT 91440 Twin-Cartridge Respirator with Goggles, ideally with my Day-Glo Yellow Tychem Qc Chemical Protection Coveralls. Authorities don't give me a problem, they just assume I'm from North Korea.

    1. Re:Go Full Heisenberg by snookiex · · Score: 3, Informative

      In your next joke, please consider using better quality products. ;)

      --
      Open Source Network Inventory for the masses! Kuwaiba
  12. Flow modelling? by fuzzyfuzzyfungus · · Score: 1

    If I were wearing a respirator for something Seriously Important(pathogens, war gasses, beryllium dust, etc.) it would be very important to me that absolutely everything is as it ought to be (and I'd probably be fucked, because good luck getting a nice seal if you get caught with a faceful of stubble, and sucks to be the beard guy, though that isn't a concern of mine personally).

    However, if I were just trying to help my odds against something in the 'definitely unpleasant, very probably not good, especially at a population level' category, I'd see a role for something that provides 100% only in the hands of an expert; but 50-90 in the hands of n00bs.

    That said, though, most filters impede air passing through them to some degree, so inhalations would likely favor any unfiltered imperfections in fit over a trip through the filters, making even dimensionally modest gaps much more serious in practice.

    Does anybody know how badly that effect bites you? Obviously, for viruses or something where literally tens of them, if you aren't lucky, can be enough, it basically doesn't matter; but what's the efficiency drop-off for generic bulk particulate masks as user competence declines? Is it, because of airflow taking the low resistance path, basically all or nothing, or is it a fairly smooth decline in effectiveness, with progressively less competent users getting less protection; but no ugly cliff somewhere in the effectiveness value?

    1. Re:Flow modelling? by ColdWetDog · · Score: 1

      As nimblesquirrel has pointed out above, it's not all that hard to fit N95 type masks. It is hard to keep them at high efficiency, especially for particulates. A five o'clock shadow won't kill it, but stubble will.

      N95 masks are not designed for critical exposures - they are a big compromise between fit, effectiveness and cost. You're supposed to toss them every shift, sooner for heavy dust / particular environments. Again, as nimblesquirrel states, there are different N95 masks and there are certainly different manufacturing quality levels.

      Who knows where the average Chinese citizen is sourcing their masks. Probably from Golden Lucky Industries who gets the filter material from recycled fish head sludge.

      --
      Faster! Faster! Faster would be better!
    2. Re:Flow modelling? by phantomfive · · Score: 1

      nhalations would likely favor any unfiltered imperfections in fit over a trip through the filters

      Good point.

      --
      "First they came for the slanderers and i said nothing."
    3. Re:Flow modelling? by fuzzyfuzzyfungus · · Score: 1

      The material of choice for cheapo masks seems to be cellulose, just because it's all nice and fibrous with minimal processing, largely borrowed from the pulp and paper industry; but I wonder if you could make maskes from fish head sludge?

      There should be plenty of collagen, which can be used to produce fibers and membranes (as with sausage casings and musical instrument 'gut' strings). On the minus side, those are hydrophilic, which could cause the filter membranes to swell and close because of breath moisture, which would be counterproductive...

      Manservant! My finest Laboratory!

  13. N95 by Tippler · · Score: 1

    We have to wear N95s in the medical profession if we are interacting with a patient with suspected or confirmed active tuberculosis. They are, indeed, miserable to wear. Try performing a complicated procedure that is hard enough normally with a mask crushing your face and the constant feeling of suffocation.

    1. Re:N95 by ColdWetDog · · Score: 2

      Grow a beard and use the hoods. They're much more comfortable (and more expensive). If you are of the female persuasion either start injecting testosterone or tell the Mask Person that you're claustrophobic.

      --
      Faster! Faster! Faster would be better!
    2. Re:N95 by germansausage · · Score: 1

      Get a good mask. I use something like this https://www.acklandsgrainger.c... . It has big cartridges, silicone rubber face mask and a decent exhaust port. The right cartridges will protect you from just about anything and you can wear it all day.

      On the other hand, it's probably not "Medically approved".

  14. if the fit's not perfect.. N85 is better than N0 by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

    Heck, cutting out 50% of the particulates would probably help.

  15. Mama always said by sjames · · Score: 4, Funny

    Be sure to chew your air for at least 30 seconds before inhaling.

  16. a worldwide problem by pbjones · · Score: 1

    from vision and personal experience, most people wearing masks don't wear them correctly. This includes nurses, builders and people trying to get protection from the rest of us. It's not not just Chinese, it's everywhere. Also, most masks just keep out dust, not fumes or virus, the good ones are more expensive.

    --
    There was an unknown error in the submission.
  17. Professionally fitted??WTF by germansausage · · Score: 2

    The author has never worn a mask or they wouldn't be spouting such nonsense. Professionally fitted? They usually come in small, medium and large. Pick the right one. They need to make a good seal on your face, so lose the beard if you really need a good seal.Other than that, keep them snug enough so that when you inhale, the air enters through the filter cartridges and not through leaks around the mask. Because the filters slightly restrict airflow the mask tends to pull in tighter as you inhale. Uncomfortable? I guess comfort is a personal thing, but I've worn a half mask with N95 cartridges all damn day without too much discomfort. It sure beats hacking up drywall dust for the next 3 days.

    1. Re:Professionally fitted??WTF by Cordus+Mortain · · Score: 1

      It's really easy to tell if it's a good seal. Put the mask on, and put your hands over the inlets for the cartridges. If you can breath in, it's not a good fit. Pretty simple. No "professional" required.

    2. Re:Professionally fitted??WTF by thegarbz · · Score: 1

      The author has never worn a mask or they wouldn't be spouting such nonsense. Professionally fitted? They usually come in small, medium and large.

      And there you have it. A mask is rated to filter out a certain amount of particulates. So do I go the small, medium, or the large? How do I know? I have a chiselled chin so will the round mask from brand a be okay or do I need to go for brand B? There's no doubt a mask will do some filtering, but if you actually need to rely on the filtration level then you most definitely should have a fit test done.

      It takes about 20min to do if you get the correct mask first go and they put on you a test mask with a few tubes that measure things like air pressure, O2 level etc, and then ask you to go through a series of tests such as breath normally, breath heavily, talk, nod, shake your heard, face down etc. If I were working with something that is actually dangerous then I would want to know that my mask actually fits.

  18. Re:Pollution from Cars? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Informative

    There are just over a billion cars on the planet. The USGS puts known lithium reserves at 13 million tonnes. That equates to 13 kg for every car on the planet. There's about 8-9 kg of lithium in the largest battery pack (85 kWh) for the Model S.

    As with any other resource, if we managed to use up 70% of the known reserves, we'd start looking for more.

    And a significant proportion of the world's lithium supply doesn't even come from those reserves, but from seawater (evaporated in salt lakes). The world's oceans contain ~230 billion tonnes of lithium, which is roughly 18000 times the "known reserves" figure.

  19. Re:Popular misconception re: face masks in influen by Cordus+Mortain · · Score: 4, Insightful

    Yeah, try telling stupid people that. It's much easier to tell people to wear masks to protect themselves than to protect other people. People are such selfish f***s.

  20. Re:And why don't they work? by thoughtsatthemoment · · Score: 1

    Because this is just another "put-down" type of article. If people don't wear masks, the an article would say wearing it is better than doing nothing. The purpose is for social influence on its targeted audience. It is not necessarily concerned with really solving the problem. If you go to Chinese sites, there are a lot of articles discussing this issue in a much more constructive manner.

  21. In Communist China, Physics laws you. by rmdingler · · Score: 1
    Take heart Chinese mask-wearers,

    prior to the Snowden revelations,

    it wasn't always cool to be a tin-hatter.

    --
    Happiness in intelligent people is the rarest thing I know.

    Ernest Hemingway

  22. Re:Not possible by Gr33nJ3ll0 · · Score: 1

    Sadly they're supposedly not saving much money doing this either.

  23. Using is worse than not using by RubberDogBone · · Score: 2

    As the FA points out, you need a GOOD fit for a mask worth anything to actually work. The real danger for a mask like this is that correctly fitted or not, once you start using it, you tend to have to mouth-breath to overcome the drag from the filter material. This means whatever you are breathing in bypasses the filtering your nose provides and instead goes deep into your lungs.

    This can be a very bad thing, especially if the mask doesn't fit well anyway.

    There is also a possibility to hyperventilate by forcibly mouth-breathing for hours at a time. I've done this on work projects where I had to wear a mask the entire time. It's also tiring due to the extra effort just to breathe.

    There is a very similar problem with sunglasses. Put on dark glasses and your eyes tend to widen and open. If light is leaking in around the lenses, then just like your lungs and a mask, your eyes will receive more unfiltered light than if you had no glasses on. And worse if the glasses are scratched or damaged, the sunlight can get in that much easier.

    The commonality between masks and sunglasses is simply that any system that is expected to protect you has to be used correctly and the human response to it also needs to be understood by the user. You need to know that a mask will make you want to breath deeply AND if you do that with a shitty mask or one that is badly fitted, you will get sicker and/or injured.

    Most people think safety warnings are for "the other guy" so they don't care anyway. People think they are invincible. Oddly, not one of them has ever been right.

    --
    Sig for hire.
    1. Re:Using is worse than not using by evilviper · · Score: 1

      There is also a possibility to hyperventilate by forcibly mouth-breathing for hours at a time. I've done this on work projects where I had to wear a mask the entire time. It's also tiring due to the extra effort just to breathe.

      I've long, long wondered why face-masks don't come with a small battery pack and powerful DC fan. The fan increasing air pressure would certainly make it easier to inhale. How much easier for how much power, I've never bothered to figure out.

      --
      Slashdot gets worse every day... Pipedot: News for nerds, without the corporate slant
  24. Re:Call me a conspirationist by lavorgeous · · Score: 1

    Smoking in China seems to be following the same generational shifts that it did in the US. Far fewer 30-somethings smoke than 50-somethings, and 20-somethings that smoke are fewer still.

  25. Secondhand smoke? by RevWaldo · · Score: 1

    I was actually wondering earlier, if suddenly anarchy reigned supreme and smoking in bars was no longer illegal, what's the most minimally intrusive headgear bar staff could use to protect themselves against secondhand smoke? (Not just assuming the bar would have air purification systems installed out the ying-yang anyway.)

    .

    1. Re:Secondhand smoke? by aXis100 · · Score: 1

      Half-face respirators. You know, the rubberised mask with the strap that goes over your head, with some canisters mounted either side. Eg like this: http://www.moldex.com/au/respi...

      Anything less is just rubbish,, especially the disposable ones. They are too flimsy to hold a good seal in most situations and they only last an hour or so.

  26. What's Old is New Again by mendax · · Score: 2

    Being a person who was born and raised on the Los Angeles ares, I came to know the awful smog that once existed there. People sometimes would wear gas masks when the sky was very black. It's interesting how the Chinese have failed to learn from history. The air in Los Angeles is wonderful these day. It's still polluted, of course, to a certain extent but nothing like like it was in the 1950-1980 period and nothing like what you see in China now.

    --
    It's really quite a simple choice: Life, Death, or Los Angeles.
    1. Re:What's Old is New Again by tmjva · · Score: 1

      I DID WHAT I COULD WITH MY GASMASK
      by
      George Formby

      http://www.monologues.co.uk/Co...

      I hear it sometimes on the 1920's Radio Network (Run by PBS in some areas).

      --
      Tracy Johnson
      Old fashioned text games hosted below:
      http://empire.openmpe.com/
      BT
  27. Re:fJago8z by 12WTF$ · · Score: 1

    Remember to take the mask out of the plastic bag before fitting.
    The resulting lack of oxygen can cause disorientation as suggested by the above comment.

    --
    Cryonics - Keep cool and carry on.
  28. For full protection.. by thegarbz · · Score: 3, Interesting

    For full protection you most definitely need to get the face mask professionally fitted. What this means is that you're shaven clean and strapped to a machine which measured the airpressure inside and outside the mask to establish if any flow is bypassing the filtering elements.

    In my case that involved wearing it breathing normally, breathing heavily, nodding, shaking my head, pulling a face, hunched over looking down, while reading a pre-defined sentence, and then breathing normally again. The machines then give you a pass or fail. My work stocks 2 different dust masks and 3 different half face respirators for this very reason and a mark goes on our security card to determine which models we're allowed to wear.

    Now all that being said none of this at all means that a mask / respirator which hasn't been fit tested is useless, ultimately it just means that it won't afford you the maximum protection (i.e. 90% of particles filtered rather than 95%). Mind you fit testing is a relatively recent idea. Australian OHS regulations have only included the requirement for fit testing for a few years now. Certainly I doubt anyone would have been tested more than about 5-10 years ago.

    I encourage you to do it though. Nothing says waste of time more than putting on a respirator with a P3 filter only to find you can't get more than a P1 rating because it doesn't suit your face. (That P stuff is Australian, I don't know the American ratings)

  29. National institute? by Boawk · · Score: 1

    [N95 facemasks] are certified by the National Institute for Occupational Safety and Health

    Whose national institute? Ah, I see. I wonder what China's equivalent institute certifies, or if they even have an equivalent institute.

  30. Re:Not possible by DerekLyons · · Score: 5, Informative

    The smog in Bejing is mostly due to coal fires for heating and automobile traffic, not factories.

  31. You had it good by ZarathustraDK · · Score: 1

    Try working in a chinese coalmine for 20 years. You'll end up getting arrested on suspicions of fraus, seeing as you haven't been crushed by a cave-in yet.

    --
    If you quote this signature there'll be 72 copies of Windows ME waiting for you in Heaven.
  32. Re:Pollution from Cars? by MickLinux · · Score: 1

    Very clearly, long before we used up the lithium, we would shift the infrastructure to provide the electricity live, thus vastly reducing the Lithium required. Or we would make the cars electric-with-fossil-generator.
    Only in a statist country would we define that 'everyone has to do the same thing'. and even then, other statist countries would do other things.
    And that also ignores wind as a recharge mechanism.

    --
    Correct Horse Battery Staple: 72 bits of entropy. Enter "Correct H" into google. When it generates the phrase, that's
  33. Pollution, pollution... by Chris+Mattern · · Score: 1

    ...Wear a gas mask and a veil/Then you can breathe, long as you don't inhale!

  34. This used to be us by ALeader71 · · Score: 1

    This is what US and most European cities looked like in the 19th century. It's the face of unfettered capitalism.
    Any activity that enables our baser nature is destructive. It's what I believed in back in the 90s but after Bush and Obama, don't believe in now. Bush started it when it became clear that while we were willing to accept another quick mid-east war our leaders largely didn't care how long we stayed, Obama showed me how hollow and phony our two party political system is by continuing most of the same Bush policies knowing people would stop complaining once he moved into the White House.

    --
    Only the dead have seen the end of War. - Plato
  35. Re:Not possible by jon3k · · Score: 1

    Do you have a source for this?

  36. Re:Not possible by theshowmecanuck · · Score: 1

    It's called Google you lazy /&/&

    try 'coal heating china' if you need help with a suitable search term

    --
    -- I ignore anonymous replies to my comments and postings.
  37. Re:Not possible by Frosty+Piss · · Score: 1

    Whenever I read posts like yours, I think of "Comic Book Man".

    --
    If you want news from today, you have to come back tomorrow.
  38. Re:Not possible by jon3k · · Score: 1

    Great and from that Google search exactly which results shows an actual scientific study that proves his post?

  39. Re:Not possible by jon3k · · Score: 1

    I don't know what that is, but do you have an actual source for this? It's an interesting fact, I'd like to see something that actually backs it up.

  40. Re:Not possible by theshowmecanuck · · Score: 1

    Now look up ass hat.

    --
    -- I ignore anonymous replies to my comments and postings.
  41. Re:Not possible by jon3k · · Score: 1

    This must be really awkward for you.

  42. wrong type of mask by Chirs · · Score: 1

    For the paper masks in question you need to fit the metal nose-piece properly to your nose.

    I agree, for the rubber/silicone masks with filter(s) and exhalation valves there's no real fitting involved, but most people in China apparently aren't wearing those.

  43. the author is talking about a paper mask by Chirs · · Score: 1

    Which needs to have the little metal piece fitted to the bridge of the nose.

    And of course this type of mask is nowhere near as nice as a half/full silicone mask with separate filters.

  44. This is already available by Chirs · · Score: 1