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How Tutankhamun's DNA Became a Battleground
First time accepted submitter superboj writes "Everyone wants a piece of Egypt's most famous pharaoh, including the media, the Muslim Brotherhood and even the Mormon church. But while scientists have been trying to excavate his DNA and prove who he was — Egypt's turbulent politics have been making progress hard. Will experts be able to make a major discovery? And what happens if they do?"
Is he - or is he not - related to Steve Martin?
On "INVISO-POWER"...
Mitt Romney shares Goa'uld DNA with ancient Pharaoh.
It's interesting how "important" this pharaoh is. He died really young. Realistically, his greatest historical accomplishment was simply not having his tomb raided by treasure hunters.
It's amazing how much bullshit is happening around this corpse. The Mormons want to identify if it was one of their ancient ancestors so they can posthumously baptize him. There's some kind of fear that he may have been a Jewish ancestor. Which would somehow make Egypt part of Israel. Then the geneticists are arguing over the validity of DNA testing of mummies. And the most bizarre thing is from some fuzzy screen captue of a computer monitor that was filmed in one of the Discovery channel documentaries. Since they won't release the data, some group is claiming that the screen capture proves that king Tut was actually Caucasian. Which has some Aryan group in a frenzy. And now with the mess in Egypt, further studies have been put on hole. It's like a bad 3000 year old joke.
Tuthankhamun's DNA has been linked to the egyptian region and has markers that indicate his proximity to egyptian royalty of around 1332 BC .
_______________
No to beta
this article, and the linked website are absolute shite.
What the fuck, Slashdot?
my stuff never gets posted, but shit like this does?
FFS.
Life is what happens to you while you are busy making other plans. No-one sees motorcycles
FYI: The "Mormon Church" as you describe it is actually a team at BYU that specializes in genetic identification of family relationships. One of their geneticists is one of the top in the country and to date, they have identified a number of unknown mummies who have been floating around various museums. They have also built a genetic family tree. There is all sorts of things one can learn about ancient Egypt this way. (For example, just because historical records say that two people are related, it doesn't mean they are genetically.) The BYU team has no interest in it from a religious perspective. King Tut wouldn't provide any additional "religious" information than the other 30+ mummies they have already worked with. They are very interested in it from a scientific perspective which is another way of saying that they are curious as all scientists should be.
I logged in on a computer I hadn't logged in on and I got the Beta again? I thought we were over this and SlashDot promised not to try that shit out anymore before the fixed everything was wrong. FUCK BETA, I don't want it because it sucks. I thought that was clear by now????
I was promised a flying car. Where is my flying car?
Don't forget all the present-day Egyptians who don't want Tut to have a too dark skin too. We would not want to revise all the depictions of Egyptians as almost totally white. There is supposed to be a clear border where Nubia starts.
The Wise adapts himself to the world. The Fool adapts the world to himself. Therefore, all progress depends on the Fool.
Calling it. :P
The BYU team has no interest in it from a religious perspective.
So... Are you saying that they are NOT Mormons or are you questioning their faith and calling them bad Mormons?
Being that BYU stands for Brigham Young University which is owned and operated by The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints.
It is owned and operated by The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints (LDS Church), and, excluding online students, is the largest religious university and one of the largest private universities in the U.S., with 34,000 on-campus students.[8][9][10]
Approximately 98% of the university's 34,000 students are members of the LDS Church, and one-third of its American students come from within the state of Utah.[11] BYU students are required to follow an honor code, which mandates behavior in line with LDS teachings (e.g., academic honesty, adherence to dress and grooming standards, and abstinence from extramarital sex and from the consumption of drugs and alcohol).[12] Many students (78% of men, 10% of women) take a two-year hiatus from their studies at some point to serve as Mormon missionaries.[13][14]
And being that it is first and foremost a religious institution.
BYU is thus considered by its leaders to be at heart a religious institution, wherein, ideally, religious and secular education are interwoven in a way that encourages the highest standards in both areas.[141] This weaving of the secular and the religious aspects of a religious university goes back as far as Brigham Young himself, who told Karl G. Maeser when the Church purchased the school: "I want you to remember that you ought not to teach even the alphabet or the multiplication tables without the Spirit of God."[142]
Mit der Dummheit kämpfen Götter selbst vergebens
One of their geneticists is one of the top in the country...
And, according to the story, he built his rep on the extraction of DNA from an 80 million year old dinosaur fossil. Unfortunately the DNA turned out to be from a modern human.
Yeah, these are the guys we should be listening to, all right.
The implication that proxy work is being done for these individuals is unfounded. If they were to do so for the ancient pharaohs, they certainly wouldn't need a tissue sample! That's just ridiculous. No, BYU is studying the genetics, fair and square.
I won't join Slashcott. OTOH, If Beta goes live, I just won't be back until it's fixed. Sorry Dice.
Over its history Egypt changed hands so much that whatever people ended up there in modern time may end up being related to Tutankhamun even to lesser degree than, say, British.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/G...
Members of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints believe that tracing family lineage is essential for special religious ceremonies that seal family units together for eternity. According to Mormons, this fulfills a Biblical prophecy stating that the prophet Elijah would return to "turn the heart of the fathers to the children, and the heart of the children to their fathers."[2]
They are actively fulfilling a Biblical prophecy ONLY by determining genealogical lineage AND then baptizing the dead.
Simply baptizing them just makes them Mormon. In the minds of the LDS followers.
Only the genealogically backed baptism, fulfills the prophecy of The Second ComingTM.
Kinda like those Texans and Israelis who are breeding red heifers in order to bring about the end of the world.
That's right! Both these groups are jerking off to the idea of Armageddon!
And yet nobody is rounding them up into prisons and concentration camps under suspicion of conspiracy to kill everyone on the planet!
I know! Insane!
Mit der Dummheit kämpfen Götter selbst vergebens
99
After Akhenaten's death, Tutankhamun and his sister / wife, Ankhesenamun, were too young to rule so the vizier, named Ay, took over and basically tried to undo what Akhenaten had done. The "amun" at the end of the two children's names is significant - Amun was the most worshiped god of the old religion, Tut's father's god was called the Aten. Tut's birth name was Tutankhaten, and the change came with a lot of reversals of his father's religious policies.
For a long time Tutankhamun was believed to have been murdered, but I guess that's in dispute now. Regardless, we have a heartbreaking letter from just after his death sent by his sister / wife to the Hittite king. Remember that Ay, in his seventies, has been ruling the country unofficially for the last nine years, that Egypt was the most powerful country in the world at this time, that the Hittites were traditional enemies of Egypt, and that Ankhesenamun, now eighteen and alone, is the only surviving member of the pure royal bloodline. This is from memory, so don't get mad if it's slightly off:
My husband is dead and I have no sons. I understand that you have many - send me one of yours and I will marry him and make him king of Egypt. Never will I marry a servant.
I am afraid.
A Hittite prince was sent, and he and his retinue were murdered en route. The only other record that we have of Ankhesenamun is her name and Ay's written together in way that signifies that they were married. Ay becomes the next pharaoh, and she disappears after this.
I think given the advanced nature of the Egyptians. Many believe that Pharaoh's were God like people. Its possible the DNA would show a unique pattern unlike humans. If that
was the case. It would cause many problems for religion in general. The Egyptian culture was some of the most advanced for the time and even today we marvel at the construction and sophistication of their lifestyle. Many in that part of the World will resist any verification. My question is, who faith is being tested here? If you believe then why is this DNA testing even a issue? Unless their is doubt even with the faithful themselves?
And yet, it's an accredited institution of higher learning in which scientists work and publish scientific papers unrelated to their religion. Imagine that.
You can say the same thing about some Catholic and protestant universities in Europe and that doesn't make them "religious institutions".
FYI: The "Mormon Church" as you describe it is actually a team at BYU that specializes in genetic identification of family relationships.
Which is funded by the Mormons as it's Brigham Young University
One of their geneticists is one of the top in the country and to date, they have identified a number of unknown mummies who have been floating around various museums.
And he's also a high ranking member of the Church of Latter Day Saints
They have also built a genetic family tree. There is all sorts of things one can learn about ancient Egypt this way. (For example, just because historical records say that two people are related, it doesn't mean they are genetically.)
LDS also has strategic partnerships with Ancestry.com and FamilySearch Do I need to connect the dots for you here too?
The BYU team has no interest in it from a religious perspective. King Tut wouldn't provide any additional "religious" information than the other 30+ mummies they have already worked with. They are very interested in it from a scientific perspective which is another way of saying that they are curious as all scientists should be.
I'm not denying their scientific acumen. It's obvious they are very adept at what they are doing. But the reason this program exists in BYU is to find proof that the native americans were really descended from a lost tribe of Jewish settlers who came to America. Even if the head of this program, who is a high ranking Mormon, isn't interested in this; the LDS would use this as a reason to posthumously baptize Tutankhamun.
Your religious bias is clouding your judgement.
Even religious people sometimes do science just because it is interesting or important to the world.
> Akhenaten's wife (not Tutankhamun's mother) was Nefertiti, who's bust is one of the most iconic symbols of Egypt.
Probably the second most famous of their imagery, second only to the gold helmet they ripped off from Battlestar Galactica.
(-1: Post disagrees with my already-settled worldview) is not a valid mod option.
"One of their geneticists is one of the top in the country..."
'And, according to the story, he built his rep on the extraction of DNA from an 80 million year old dinosaur fossil. Unfortunately the DNA turned out to be from a modern human.'
He's obviously one of the top 5000 geneticists.
I'm not denying their scientific acumen. It's obvious they are very adept at what they are doing. But the reason this program exists in BYU is to find proof that the native americans were really descended from a lost tribe of Jewish settlers who came to America. Even if the head of this program, who is a high ranking Mormon, isn't interested in this; the LDS would use this as a reason to posthumously baptize Tutankhamun.
Seriously, if your not a member of LDS, the idea of posthumously baptising is pretty whacka-loon and unsupported in any other religion I'm aware of, so what difference does it really make?
At Least when the Satanic Temple performed a Pink Mass at the gravesite of Fred Phelps’ mother,
it was funny and deliciously ironic.
Apocalypse Cancelled, Sorry, No Ticket Refunds
Re:interesting story, shit website
Are we talking about the Slashdot beta again??
There's some kind of fear that [Tutankhamun] may have been a Jewish ancestor. Which would somehow make Egypt part of Israel.
With that kind of rationale, China would be somehow part of Mongolia
His father was Akhenaten, easily the most bizarre pharaoh - he basically forsook running the kingdom in favor of starting a cult out in the middle of nowhere. His religion was the first known monotheistic one and he drastically changed the art and practices of what was arguably the most conservative culture that there has ever been.
That's because the previous pharaoh, Thutmoses III, drowned in the Red Sea while chasing after the Hebrews. This was after several important Egyptian gods were shown to be inferior to the Hebrew god. That kind of curb stomping left an impression on the new guy.
Um tut sut (OK we've had two oblique references, let's see if anybody can grasp this one)
Star Trek transporters are just 3d printers.
Being that BYU stands for Brigham Young University which is owned and operated by The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints.
D'oh! All these years I've been thinking it was BYO University!
Star Trek transporters are just 3d printers.
And, according to the story, he built his rep on the extraction of DNA from an 80 million year old dinosaur fossil. Unfortunately the DNA turned out to be from a modern human.
Well duh, didn't you ever watch "Barney"?
Star Trek transporters are just 3d printers.
Aren't the Copts supposed to be the closest descendants of the ancient Egyptians?
Star Trek transporters are just 3d printers.
Genetic statisticians have figured out that in as little as 8 centuries either your had died out or has contributed to everybody. This a variant of the problem that after 30 generations you should have more ancestors than the population of Earth. But there always is a degree of inbreeding for most marriages- as little as 2nd cousins for some village traditions, to most US spouses are at least 10th cousins or closer. I.E. another variant that Obama is related to almost half of the other presidents through generations in the USA history (12 generations or less). A significant fraction of Middle proudly trace their hertitage to Mohammed; Chinese to some empreror. Genetic studies hint a tenth of Asia has markers from Genghis Khan. If Jesus had had children (unclear) then much of the world could be descendents.
Conversely, even if Charlemagne is your proven ancestor, you may have no genes from him. You have about 42,000 genes, duplicate copies from each parent. After 16 generations, some ancestor must drop off the list of contributing genes. Probably much sooner because meiotic (germ cell)recombination appears operate on blocks of genes, not individual genes.
Wasn't there a time once when this was almost true? Mongolia isn't what it used to be.
Ezekiel 23:20
Maybe it isn't too uncommon!
Wait just one abbreviated minute; Tutankhamen,DNA, excavate and the Muslim Brotherhood!!! I smell Disney,Theme Park and Harrison Ford! Don't say I didn't give you the insider(oops)inside tip! Wink, Wink,Nudge,Nudge! Say no more.
Of course it was true, Gengis Khan took over China.
The biblical pharaoh is generally believed to be either Ramesses the second (Ramesses the great) or his son, Merenptah. The first mention of Israelites happens during Merenptah's reign. This is about a hundred years after Akhenaten.
Incidentally, the Red Sea in the biblical account is a mistranslation - it's actually supposed to be the "sea of reeds." In other words, a marsh. This makes sense for a bunch of reasons, not the least of which is the fact that the Israelites lived in the delta region in Egypt, which has plenty of marshes but isn't very close to the Red Sea.
Maybe, but several thousands years has passed and culture of original Egyptian was destroyed by multitude of invaders. For example, they lost their original language and are mostly Muslim due to being conquered by Arabs at some point. A minority of them are Christian and only to Christian Egyptians the word 'Copt' applies. Neither of those are original Egyptian religions obviously. And probably they can't claim ancestry either due to thousand of years of interbreeding with said invaders. That's assuming ancestry matters even. On the other hand Egypt due to being ancient world power have influenced to some degree pretty much all other nations. It's just too selfish of those very distant relatives of original Egyptians to monopolize this topic of research. It goes against the interest of Humanity as the whole.
Tut wasn't all that important besides being the Son of The Guy Who Created God. Now, to me that beats being "The Son of God". Tut's dad was in conflict with his priests, declared there was only one God, moved the court way up the Nile and thereby created a big following of priests who claimed there was only a single (somewhat abstract) deity. This is probably the basis for the later Abrahamic God, and so, Tut was "The Son of the Guy who Created God".
Descendents, certainly ; more closely related than any other randomly selected Egyptian is a lot more dubious. By the time you get back to when the Romans ruled, probably every Egyptian alive then is an ancestor of every Egyptian alive today. Go back another 1400 years (the equivalent to going back from today to Attila the Hun and the Visigoths) and everyone in the area is related to each other.
Birds are not dinosaur descendants;birds are dinosaurs, for all useful meanings of "birds", "are" and "dinosaurs"
Actually, his tomb was raided. How much they got away with, we'll probably never know, but not a great amount. When Carter entered the tomb, there were clear signs of repairs to the doorway ,and the interior was a jumbled mess, as if the place had been partly ransacked, and then a lot of stuff almost literally thrown back in - by inference by the equivalent of the Police.
Safe to say - if some people got blamed, they'd have died slow, excruciatingly painful and highly public deaths. Probably after watching all their families die the same way, spaced out over a period of days. Watched by the neighbours. Shrinking violets, the Egyptians were not.
Birds are not dinosaur descendants;birds are dinosaurs, for all useful meanings of "birds", "are" and "dinosaurs"
was Nefertiti, who's bust is one of the most iconic symbols of Egypt
I guess they don't call her Nefertiti for nothing.