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Ubuntu's Mir Gets Delayed Again

jones_supa writes "Delays keep piling up for the Mir display server on the Ubuntu desktop. After already being postponed multiple times, Mir might not be enabled by default on the Ubuntu Linux desktop until the 16.04 LTS release — in two years time! This was the estimate by Mark Shuttleworth in a virtual Ubuntu Developer Summit. Using Mir, Mark says, will lead to supporting more hardware, obtaining better performance, and 'do some great things' with the technology. He expects some users will start using Mir on the desktop over the next year. Mir is already packaged as an experimental option, along with an experimental Unity 8 desktop session."

10 of 241 comments (clear)

  1. This could be good news... by bazmonkey · · Score: 4, Insightful

    If Wayland is able to make decent ground before Mir is ready, there's still hope Ubuntu will drop the whole thing.

    1. Re:This could be good news... by angryfeet · · Score: 4, Insightful

      But remember Wayland was floundering until just after Mir was announced. Only once all the righteous indignation kicked in did it start going anywhere. Without Shuttleworth we'd all be stuck in the 70's.

    2. Re:This could be good news... by davydagger · · Score: 4, Insightful

      ubuntu didn't adopt wayland because they said it lacked too much functionality, so instead of contributing back, like most other companies do, they decided to do what they normally, do, make an incompatible, inhouse version only they use, and then blame everyone else for not marching around them.

      I liked ubuntu early on, because when it was X11 and Gnome 2, they made using linux easy, with using the exact same technologies everyone else running a linux desktop was using. They were using the most mainstream widely supported technologies.

      And thats all I want out of a newbie distro. To take wideley supported, most default software, package it together, with support, make the best sane configs. Find the best GUI config tools, and make a coherent OS family like windows and mac do, for everyone who is non-technical, so they can enjoy what we do, and I have something to recommend to non-techies.

      It would also make my life easier, being I'm the one who generally fixes the computer.

    3. Re:This could be good news... by Alomex · · Score: 4, Interesting

      Commercial implementations of Unix suck as a rule,

      Wrong. OSX doesn't suck, Solaris didn't suck in its time, Android doesn't suck and even your much beloved Linux didn't get to be a real serious operating system until IBM decided to adopt it and spent massive amounts of money bringing it up to enterprise quality.

    4. Re:This could be good news... by Alomex · · Score: 5, Insightful

      Except that most people don't use X network transparency. You can achieve the same effect without it, and this is what most people do, but they don't even know it. They see a remote client and immediately think "it must be network transparency!" If that were the case then surely windows is network transparent since it supports remote desktop.

      As I said, network transparency is the mating call of the X noob.

      Yes, it is a flamebait-ish statement, but it also happens to be the truth.

    5. Re:This could be good news... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Informative

      network transparency

      Which is of course why X gets used where it is used in the first place. Wrap your head around X being used on MS Windows guys - once you work out why it is used there you'll stop laughing at network transparency and see why people are using it.

      X is only network transparent if all your apps are from 1995 and are written against Motif. Everything newer than that is not network transparent, it's just shoving uncompressed bitmaps across the network in a highly inefficient wrapper protocol that makes large numbers of inefficient, lag inducing round-trips.

      A rootless VNC-esque protocol (Xpra) is a superior solution in every way.

    6. Re:This could be good news... by thegarbz · · Score: 4, Informative

      If you think that he's wrong maybe you should look at how any modern X system works. Both X developers and Wayland developers have discussed in detail that there is nothing network transparent about any modern release of X which does any kind of direct rendering or hardware acceleration, something that was introduced around the mid 90s, so the parent's comment is actually right on the mark.

  2. Re:X got from Version 1 to Version 11 in 3 years by GigaplexNZ · · Score: 4, Insightful

    Version numbers don't mean a whole lot. Google Chrome hasn't changed much in 33 versions.

  3. PhD thesis or display server? by dacut · · Score: 5, Interesting

    I've found (as a rule of thumb) that, when asking a grad student "How much time do you think you have left before you can write up your thesis?", if the answer is two or more years out then it really means "I don't know." The student honestly believes this answer, but in reality he/she doesn't know how much he/she doesn't know.

    I'm starting to feel about the same with Mir and Canonical here. Shuttleworth is the tenured but aloof professor who casually coaxes his students (employees) toward completing milestones but without too much urgency. Money's not plentiful, but the professor has enough contacts and contracts to keep his lab going and give a stipend to his students. They put out a few papers (releases) each year, and each time the students think this grand project is "almost done"... only to discover that there's still more left to do.

    There's tremendous value in this kind of exploratory research. I'm just not sure it makes sense to package it up for end users.

    If I were Mark Shuttleworth's technical advisor, I'd suggest examining RedHat's Fedora model. Create a small group called Canonical Labs where stuff like Mir and Unity can flourish, with continuous releases and without the artificial constraint of a set release date. (If this makes the environment too lackadaisical and development isn't progressing fast enough, find some other way to instill discipline and/or motivation; don't make it the threat of moving alpha code to end-users.) When it's stabilized (no longer shuffling menus and window icons around, for example), then integrate it with the main Ubuntu branch. Something a bit more edgy and up-to-date than Debian Stable or RHEL, but not so much that it constantly upends your users.

  4. Re:Try harder by thegarbz · · Score: 4, Insightful

    You are really calling the people who have been using X for years "noobs"?

    Using X does not mean understanding X. Additionally using X does not mean understanding how things have changed under the hood when there's been no visible change in the usability of the system.

    Frankly a lot of X veterans who maybe once used X in a truly network transparent way think that just because their ability to send a window to another X system means it's still network transparent, which is utter rubbish. There's no modern distro which actually implements remote X in any other way than Wayland is proposing to do it, pixels scraping and sending it over the network.

    Yet for some reason some people are still hung up on a feature which they think they use because frankly they don't understand anything, and the most vocal bunch seems to be the ones with the longest beards.