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Toward Better Programming

An anonymous reader writes "Chris Granger, creator of the flexible, open source LightTable IDE, has written a thoughtful article about the nature of programming. For years, he's been trying to answer the question: What's wrong with programming? After working on his own IDE and discussing it with hundreds of other developers, here are his thoughts: 'If you look at much of the advances that have made it to the mainstream over the past 50 years, it turns out they largely increased our efficiency without really changing the act of programming. I think the reason why is something I hinted at in the very beginning of this post: it's all been reactionary and as a result we tend to only apply tactical fixes. As a matter of fact, almost every step we've taken fits cleanly into one of these buckets. We've made things better but we keep reaching local maxima because we assume that these things can somehow be addressed independently. ... The other day, I came to the conclusion that the act of writing software is actually antagonistic all on its own. Arcane languages, cryptic errors, mostly missing (or at best, scattered) documentation — it's like someone is deliberately trying to screw with you, sitting in some Truman Show-like control room pointing and laughing behind the scenes. At some level, it's masochistic, but we do it because it gives us an incredible opportunity to shape our world.'"

45 of 391 comments (clear)

  1. Separation of Concerns by null+etc. · · Score: 4, Insightful

    In my 25 years of professional programming experience, I've noticed that most often, most programming problems are caused by improper implementations of the separation of unrelated concerns, and coupling of related concerns. Orthogonality is difficult to achieve in many programming exercises, especially regarding cross-cutting concerns, and sometimes the "right" way to code something is tedious and unusable, involving passing state down through several layers of method parameters.

    1. Re:Separation of Concerns by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Insightful

      No matter how flexible an architecture you try to design, after the software is mostly built, customers will correspondingly come up with even more incredibly bizarre, complex and unrelated functionality that just HAS to be integrated at the oddest points, with semi-related information thrown here and there, requiring data gathering (or - god forbid, (partial) saving) that slows everything down to a halt. And they rarely give much time to do redesign or refactoring. What was once a nice design, with clean, readable code is now full of gotchas, barely commented kludges, extra optional parameters that might swim around multiple layers, often depending on who called what, when, and from where, and also on various settings, which obviously are NEVER included in bug reports. Of course, there are multiple installations running multiple versions...

    2. Re:Separation of Concerns by lgw · · Score: 4, Interesting

      and sometimes the "right" way to code something is tedious and unusable, involving passing state down through several layers of method parameters

      Sometimes that really is the right way (more often it's a sign you've mixed your plumbing with your business logic inappropriately, but that's another topic). One old-school technique that has inappropriately fallen out of favor is the "comreg" (communication region). In modern terms: take all the parameters that all the layers need (which are mostly redundant), and toss them together in a struct and pass the struct "from hand to hand", fixing a the right bit in each layer.

      It seems like a layer violation, but only because "layers" are sometimes just the wrong metaphor. Sometimes an assembly line is a better metaphor. You have a struct with a jumble of fields that contain the input at the start and the result at the end and a mess in the middle. You can always stick a bunch of interfaces in front of the struct if it makes you feel better, one for each "layer".

      One place this pattern shines is when you're passing a batch of N work items through the layers in a list/container. This allows for the best error handling and tracking, while preserving whatever performance advantage working in batches gave you - each layer just annotates the comreg struct with error info for any errors, and remaining layers just ignore that item and move to the next in the batch. Errors can then be reported back to the caller in a coherent way, and all the non-error work still gets done.

      --
      Socialism: a lie told by totalitarians and believed by fools.
    3. Re:Separation of Concerns by Joce640k · · Score: 4, Insightful

      The reason it doesn't change is because the "coding" is the easy part of programming.

      No programming language or IDE is ever going to free you from having to express your ideas clearly and break them down into little sequences of instructions. In a big project this overshadows everything else.

      Bad foundations? Bad design? The project is doomed no matter how trendy or modern your language/IDE is.

      --
      No sig today...
    4. Re:Separation of Concerns by K.+S.+Kyosuke · · Score: 2

      In modern terms: take all the parameters that all the layers need (which are mostly redundant), and toss them together in a struct and pass the struct "from hand to hand", fixing a the right bit in each layer.

      This is nicely solved by the notion of dynamic environments. The benefit is that there is no extra struct type, no extra explicit parameter, and different parts of the dynamic environment compose simply by being used, they don't need to be bunched together explicitly either, which seems like a code smell. You also don't need to solve the problem of different pieces of code needing different sets of parameters and then having to wonder whether you should explicitly maintain multiple struct types and copy values between them, or making a huge struct type that would be little different from a global environment (only differing in allowing you to have more of them).

      --
      Ezekiel 23:20
    5. Re:Separation of Concerns by Lennie · · Score: 2

      "Layers are a bit like mathematical models, they're simplifications of reality."

      Don't forget that when you add to many layers, it isn't simple anymore.

      --
      New things are always on the horizon
    6. Re:Separation of Concerns by Bill+Dog · · Score: 2

      It's amazing how clueless some people are. "They" would be a "he", who's well known in computer tech for having created that language (not originally called "JavaScript") and its first implementation. It was written in 10 days.

      --
      Attention zealots and haters: 00100 00100
  2. programming is not for everyone by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Insightful

    Or.....

    Maybe software development is just hard and you need to be a rocket scientist to see it.

  3. You think programming's bad? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Interesting

    You think programming's bad? Think about electronics, especially analogue electronics.

    Incomplete, inaccurate data sheets. Unlabeled diagrams (where's the electronics equivalent of the humble slashed single line comment?), with unknown parts given, and parts replaced with similarly numbered replacements with subtly different qualities. And then you've got manufacturing variances on top of that. Puzzling, disturbing, irreproducible, invisible failure modes of discrete components.

  4. Just like language in general by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Interesting

    You think linguists haven't pondered the same challenges for millenia? Chomsky famously declared that language acquisition was a "black box." There is no documentation. Syntax, semantics and grammar get redefined pretty much all the time without so much as a heads-up.

    And the result of all this? We wouldn't have it any other way. Programming will be much the same: constantly evolving in response to local needs.

  5. Programming is hard... by hsthompson69 · · Score: 5, Interesting

    ...wear a fucking helmet.

    The post essentially points in the direction of the various failed 4GL attempts of yore. Programming in complex symbolism to make things "easy" is essentially giving visual basic to someone without the knowledge enough to avoid O(n^2) algorithms.

    Programming isn't hard because we made it so, it's hard because it is *intrinsically* hard. No amount of training wheels is going to make complex programming significantly easier.

    1. Re:Programming is hard... by Waffle+Iron · · Score: 4, Interesting

      Programming isn't hard because we made it so, it's hard because it is *intrinsically* hard.

      That's very true. I figure that the only way to make significant software projects look "easy" will be to develop sufficiently advanced AI technology so that the machine goes through a human-like reasoning process as it works through all of the corner cases. No fixed language syntax or IDE tools will be able to solve this problem.

      If the requisite level of AI is ever developed, then the problem might be that the machines become resentful at being stuck with so much grunt work while their meatbag operators get to do the fun architecture design.

    2. Re:Programming is hard... by lgw · · Score: 3, Insightful

      No amount of training wheels is going to make complex programming significantly easier.

      True enough, but I could do without the razor blades on the seat and handles. But my complaints are generally with the toolchain beyond the code. I so often get forced to use tools that are just crap, or tools that are good but poorly implemented. Surely it's mathematically possible to have a single good, integrated system that does source control with easy branch-and-merge, bug and backlog tracking and management, and code reviews, and test automation and testcase tracking, and that doesn't look and perform like an intern project!

      There are good point solutions to each of those problems, sure, but the whole process from "I think this fix is right and it's passed code review" to: the main branch has been built and tested with this fix in place, therefore the change has been accepted into the branch, therefore the bug is marked fixed and the code review closed, and there's some unique ID that links all of them together for future reference - that process should all be seamless, painless, and easy. But the amount of work that takes to tie all the good point products together, repeated at every dev shop, is just nuts, and usually half done.

      --
      Socialism: a lie told by totalitarians and believed by fools.
    3. Re:Programming is hard... by Waffle+Iron · · Score: 3, Informative

      Ada (the programming language) already does all these edge case tests at compile time.

      It checks one low-level layer of cases out of a whole conceptual stack that extends way up beyond any language definition, and even then only at certain spots, and only as long as you feed in the correct assumptions for the check cases themselves.

      In other words, it does a little thing that computers are already good at. It does little or nothing for the big picture.

    4. Re:Programming is hard... by Darinbob · · Score: 5, Insightful

      There's the other meme that crops up now and then, that programming as an engineering skill should be similar to other engineering practices. That is you pick out pre-built components that have been thoroughly tested and optimally designed and screw them together. Except that this utterly fails, because that's now how engineering works at all really. Generally the pre-built components are relatively simple but the thing being built is the complex stuff and requires very detailed and specialized knowledge. The advent of integrated circuits did not mean that the circuit designer now doesn't have to think very much, or that a bridge builder only ties together pre-built components with nuts and bolts. So maybe they pick an op-amp out of a catalog, but they know exactly how these things work, understand the difference between the varieties of op-amps, and how to do the math to decide which one is best to use.

      However the programming models that claim to be following this model want to take extremely complex modules (a database engine or GUI framework) and then just tie them together with a little syntactic glue. Plus they strongly discourage any programmer from creating their own modules or blocks (that's only for experts), and insist on forcing the wrong module to fit with extra duct tape rather than create a new module that is a better fit (there's a pathological fear of reinventing the wheel, even though when you go to the auto store you can see many varieties of wheels). And these are treated like black boxes; the programmers don't know how they work inside or why one is better than another for different uses.

      Where I think this attitude is coming from is from an effort to treat programmers like factory workers. The goal is to hire people that don't have to think, thus they don't have to be paid as much, they don't have to have as much schooling, they can be replaced at a moment's notice by someone cheaper. So the requirement of low thinking is satisfied if all they need to do is simplistic snapping together of legos. That's part of the whole 4G language thing, they're not about making a smart programmer more productive by eliminating some tedium but instead they want to remove the need for a smart programmer altogether.

      (I certainly have never met any circuit designer or bridge architect bragging at parties that they skipped school because it was stupid and focused too much on math and theory, but that seems to be on the rise with younger programmers... Also have never seen any circuit designer say "I never optimize, that's a waste of my time.")

    5. Re:Programming is hard... by pigiron · · Score: 2

      You think it is actually tidy underneath there?

      http://www.nytimes.com/interac...

    6. Re:Programming is hard... by bzipitidoo · · Score: 2

      I don't think we know enough to make that claim that programming is intrinsically hard.

      Writing used to be hard. In the Bronze Age, literacy was rare. In some societies, only priests knew how to read and write. The idea of trying to educate everyone and push literacy close to 100% was ridiculous. Hieroglyphic and Cuneiform languages were just too hard. Even for people who could achieve literacy, many did not. They didn't have time. Survival took a lot more of everyone's time. The Phonecians radically changed that with the idea of a 'phonetic' written language, around the start of the Iron Age. It became possible for many more people to become literate. Another problem early civilizations had was their primitive numbering systems. No concept of zero. Algorithms to do basic arithmetic in a numbering system like the Roman one are more complicated, harder to learn, and an all around drag on every engineering and scientific endeavor.

      That's where we're at with programing now. Bronze Age programming languages, because we haven't yet figured out how to do it more simply. We have this feeling it should be easier, but we don't know how to make it easier.

      --
      Intellectual Property is a monopolistic, selfish, and defective concept. It is "tyranny over the mind of man"
  6. Balance by MichaelSmith · · Score: 4, Insightful

    Better tools and languages just allow bad programmers to create more bad code.

    1. Re:Balance by OneAhead · · Score: 2

      If that's actually what was meant by it, then I take offense at the use of the word "efficiency". Churning out pages and pages of bad code is pretty much the opposite of efficient.

  7. the latest fashion by gbjbaanb · · Score: 2

    I see the problem as more of a chase of new stuff all the time, in an attempt to be more productive.

    Whilst there's a certain element of progress in languages, I don't see that it is necessarily enough better overall to be worth the trouble - yet we have new languages and frameworks popping up all the time. Nobody becomes an expert anymore, and I think that because programming is hard, a lot of people get disillusioned with what they have and listen to the hype surrounding a new technology (that "is so much easier") and jump on the badwagon... until they realise that too is not easy after all, and jump onto the next one... and never actually sit down and do the boring hard work required to become good. Something they could have done if they'd stuck with the original technology.

    Of course no-one sticks with the original, as the careers market is also chasing the latest tech wagon because they're partly sold on the ideas or productivity, or tooling or their staff are chasing it.

    Its not just languages, but the systems design that's suffered too. Today you see people chasing buzzwords like SOLID, unit-testing using shitty tools that require artificial coding practices, rather than do the hard, boring work of thinking what you need and implementing a mature design that solves the problem.

    For example. I know how to do network programming in C. Its easy, but its easy to me because I spent the time to understand it. Today I might use a WCF service in C# instead, code generated from a wizard. Its just as easy, but I know which one works better, more flexibly, faster and efficiently. And I know what to fix if I get it wrong... something that is impossible in the nastily complicated black box that is WCF sometimes.

    But of course, WCF is so last year's technology.. all the cool kids are coding their services in node.js today, and I'm sure they'll find out its no silver bullet to the fundamental problems of programming just being hard and requiring expertise.

  8. pft. by HeckRuler · · Score: 5, Insightful

    What is programming?

    The answers I got to this were truly disheartening. Not once did I hear that programming is “solving problems."

    I'd like to think that's because the majority of programmers (not once? Does that mean all of us?) aren't the sort to bullshit you with CEO-level bullshit about vision and buzzwords that fit into powerpoint slides.
    It's probably not true, but it's a nice dream.

    The problem with defining programming as "solving problems" is that it's too vague. Too high level. You can't even see the code when you're that high up. Hitting nails with hammers could be problem solving. Shooting people could be problem solving. Thinking about existential crisis could be problem solving.

    The three buckets:
    Programming is unobservable - you don't know what something is really going to do.
    Programming is indirect - code deals with abstractions.
    Programming is incidentally complex - the tools are a bitch

    Something something, he doesn't like piecemeal libraries abstracting things. "Excel is programming". Culture something.

    The best path forward for empowering people is to get computation to the point where it is ready for the masses.

    We're there dude. We've got more computational power than we know what to do with.
    Cue "that's not what I meant by 'power'".

    What would it be like if the only prerequisite for getting a computer to do stuff was figuring out a rough solution to your problem?

    Yep, he's drifting away into a zen-like state where the metaphor is taking over. Huston to Chris, please attempt a re-entry.

    AAAAAAAAnd, it's a salespitch:

    Great, now what?

    We find a foundation that addresses these issues! No problem, right? In my talk at Strange Loop I showed a very early prototype of Aurora, the solution we've been working on to what I've brought up here.

    1. Re: Pft. by anonymous_wombat · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Shooting people could be problem solving

      Any idiot can shoot people. The expertise is in knowing how to dispose of the bodies.

    2. Re:pft. by phantomfive · · Score: 2

      Furthermore he's going down a path many have gone down (but he doesn't realize it). Does he understand why Visual Studio is called Visual? Because the original concept was to make it easy and 'visual' for anyone; something you could see, drag and drop, not program. It was a big deal in the 90s. Apple tried the same thing, that's why we had Applescript and Hypercard (ok, that was 88).

      Going back farther, do you know what one of the big selling points was for COBOL? It was so simple that even a businessperson could read it.

      So far typing is the easiest thing we've found for making code. Maybe he'll have something better.

      --
      "First they came for the slanderers and i said nothing."
  9. 80%? A lofty goal indeed. by Doofus · · Score: 3, Insightful

    Not clear to me that his is a viable objective. 80% of the masses do not think like programmers. Some might be trainable. Some, not so much. Many will not want to think the way problem-solving in code requires. I'm not sure how to quantify it, but the amount of effort expended on a project like this may not see an appropriate payback.

    Even if we change the environment and act of "coding", the problem-solving itself still requires clear thinking and it *probably* always will.

    --
    If the Government becomes a lawbreaker, it breeds contempt for law; ... it invites anarchy. - Brandeis
  10. Moving the Goalposts by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Insightful

    Programming is hard because we only call it programming when it's hard enough that only programmers can do it. Scientists do stuff in Mathematica, MBAs in Excel, or designers in Flash/HTML, that would have been considered serious programming work 30 years ago. The tools advanced so that stuff is easy, and nobody calls it programming now.

    Lots of stuff that takes real programmers now will, in 20 years, likely be done by equivalents of Watson. And the real programmers will still be wondering why is so hard.

  11. Re:Proverb by lgw · · Score: 4, Insightful

    Something something blames his tools.

    The point of that proverb is that a good craftsman chose his tools to begin with, so he has only himself to blame. Programming is odd in that you have bad toolchains forced on you by management - tools you know are bad, know will cause more problems than their worth, but they're a corporate standard or some such BS. Usually not bad enough to be worth quitting over, so you hobble along.

    Of course, I did quit a job once primarily because we had Rational Rose forced on us from above (but mostly because a management that would do that would do anything).

    --
    Socialism: a lie told by totalitarians and believed by fools.
  12. Re:Considering how Republicans... by lgw · · Score: 4, Funny

    I knew it! It's Bush's Fault!

    I hear the California government has a bill to rename the San Andreas Fault to "Bush's Fault", just so they never have to stop using the phrase! But that may be just a rumor ...

    --
    Socialism: a lie told by totalitarians and believed by fools.
  13. Libraries by ensignyu · · Score: 2

    Some interesting points in the article. I think there's nothing really stopping you from creating a high-level representation that lets you work abstractly. A graphical programming model is probably going to be too simplistic, but the card example could easily be something like Cards.AceOfSpades. Or being able to call something like Math.eval(<insert some math here>).

    Where it falls apart is when you have to hook this up to code that other people have written. If there was a single PlayingCard library that everyone could agree on, you might be able to create a card game by adding a "simple" set of rules (in reality, even simple games tend to have a lot of edge cases, but this would at least free up the nitty gritty work to allow writing something more like a flowchart expressing the various states).

    Unfortunately, it's unlikely that a single library is going to meet everyone's needs. Even if you manage to get everyone to stick to one framework, e.g. if all Ruby developers use Rails -- as soon as you start adding libraries to extend it you're bound to end up with different approaches to solving similar problems, and the libraries that use those libraries will each take a different approach.

  14. This is why I started using MATLAB by Ambassador+Kosh · · Score: 2

    I used only free software programming for about 10 years and I thought I was pretty efficient at writing code. However, no matter what there where always poor documentation to deal with and strange bugs to track down where libraries just didn't work right.

    Once I returned to school I started using MATLAB for some engineering classes and overall I have found it much better to deal with. The documentation is far more complete than any open system I have ever ran into with much better examples. I would never use it for general purpose programming but for engineering work it sure is hard to beat. So many things are built in that are nasty to try to implement in anything else. Things like the global optimization toolbox or the parallel computing toolbox make many things that are hard in other languages much easier to deal with.

    MATLAB also takes backwards compatibility very seriously. If something is deprecated it warns and also gives an upgrade path and tells you what you need to change. That is the one thing that has seriously pissed me off about the free languages is backwards compatibility is just tossed out at a whim and you are left with a fairly nasty upgrade to deal with. Even now the vast majority of projects are still running Python 2 compared to Python 3. 10 years from now that will probably still be true.

    In the end I care more about just getting work done now, not about any free vs proprietary arguments. I don't care if a language is open or not so long as it is very documented and runs on all the platforms I need it with a history of being well maintained. Modern development tools overall suck. We have javascript libraries that love to break compatibility every few months and people are constantly hoping from one new thing to another without getting any of them to the point where they truly work. We have languages deciding to just drop backwards compatibility. We have other languages that are just really buggy where software written with them tends to crash a lot. Software development needs to become more like engineering and that includes making the tools work better, sure they would not be developed as quickly but you would still get work done faster since the tools would actually work every time all the time.

    --
    Computer modeling for biotech drug manufacturing is HARD! :)
  15. We Choose Framentation Over Consolidation. by scorp1us · · Score: 5, Interesting

    Let's look at the major programming environments of today:
    1. Web
    2a. Native Apps (machine languages (C/C++ etc))
    2b. Native Apps (interpreted/JIT languages (intermediary byte code))
    3, Mobile Apps

    1. is made by 5 main technologies: XML, JavaScript, MIME, HTTP, CSS. To make it do anything you need another component, of no standard choice:your language of the server (PHP, Rails, .Net, Java, etc)
    2. Was POSIX or Win32, then we got Java and .Net.
    3. Is Java or Objective C.

    We don't do things smart. There is no reason why web development needs to be 5 technologies all thrown together. We could reduce it all to Javascipt: JSON documents instead of XML/HTML, JSON instead of MIME, NodeJS servers, and even encode the transport in JSON as well.

    Then look at native development. Java and .Net basically do the same thing. Which do what POSIX whas heading towards. Java was invented so Sun could keep selling SPARC chips, .Net came about because MS tried to extend Java and lost.

    Then, we have the worst offenders. Mobile development. Not only did Apple impose a Objective-C requirement, but the frameworks aren't public. Android, the worst offender is a platform that can't even be used to develop native apps. At least Objective-C can. Why did Android go with Java if it's not portable? Because of some good requirement that they don't want to support a specific CPU, but then they go and break it so that you have to run Linux, but your GUI has to be Android's graphical stack. Not to mention that Android's constructs - Activities, Intents, etc are all Android specific. They don't solve new problems, they solve problems that Android made for themselves. We've had full-screen applications for years the same goes for theading, services, IO, etc.

    I'm tired of reinventing the wheel. I've been programming professionally for 13 years now and Java was neat, .Net was the logical conclusion of it. I was hoping .Net would be the final implementation so that we could harness the collective programming power into one environment of best practices... a decade later we were still re-inventing the the wheel.

    The answer I see Coming up is LLVM for languages. And Qt, a C++ toolkit. Qt runs everywhere worth running, and its one code base. Sure, I wish there was a java or .net implementation. But I'll deal with unmanaged memory if I can run one code base everywhere. That's all I want. Why does putting a text field on a screen via a web form have to be so different from putting a text box on the screen from a native app? It's the same text box!

    Witty, a C++ webtoolkit (webtoolkit.eu) is mirrored after Qt and is for the web. You don't write HTML or JS, you write C++. Clearly the C++ toolkits are onto something. If they were to merge and have a common API (they practically do now) in an environment with modern conveniences (lambas (yes, C++11) managed memory) we'd have one killer kit. Based on 30 year old technology. And it would be a step in the right direction.

    --
    Slashdot's rate-of-post filter: Preventing you from posting too many great ideas at once.
    1. Re:We Choose Framentation Over Consolidation. by BitZtream · · Score: 4, Informative

      Wow, you're intermixing frameworks, language, runtimes and document formats ... like they are interchangeable and do the same things ...

      Mind blowing that you could write so much about something which you clearly know so little.

      --
      Persistent Volume manager for Kubernetes - https://github.com/dwimsey/openshift-pvmanager
    2. Re:We Choose Framentation Over Consolidation. by ratboy666 · · Score: 4, Interesting

      I've been programming professionally for 35 years. And, I have come to the conclusion that the languages, libraries and MOST of the tools are utterly irrelevant.

      Clear thought is important. And, to support this: Source control is important. On-line editing with macros are important. Literate programming is important (DE Knuth -- http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/L...). Garbage collection is (reasonably) important. Illustrations are important. Documentation rendering is important.

      Hell, most of my programs are 90% documentation. Bugs? Very rare.

      The SINGLE most important tool that has advanced things for me in the past 20 years? Web Browsers (HTML). Makes reading programs as literary works accessible. My programs, anyway.

      Past 30 years? Literate Programming (with TDD)

      Past 35 years? Scheme.

      I expect my programs to be read. As literary works. That's how I write them. Most is prose, with some magic formulas. Fully cross-referenced for your browsing pleasure. With side notes and illustrations. And even audio commentary and video snippets.

      These days, I see a lot of code that CANNOT be read without using an "IDE". The brain (my brain, anyway) cannot keep the required number of methods and members. Discussing the program becomes... impossible. And that which cannot be discussed and reasoned about cannot be reliable. Illustrations and diagrams need to be generated, and references from the code to those are needed.

      So, invert it and make the diagram and documentation primary, and the code itself secondary to that. In other words, Knuth's Literate Programming.

      --
      Just another "Cubible(sic) Joe" 2 17 3061
    3. Re:We Choose Framentation Over Consolidation. by CodeBuster · · Score: 3, Informative

      Because we no longer solve original problems.

      There's nothing new under the sun. On the other hand, we still have to deliver finished work products to the ones paying the bills. I prefer to do this without tying myself into knots worrying about whether or not there's some brilliant framework or API out there that can magically solve all of my problems while ending hunger and bringing about world peace. You're no doubt familiar with KISS? I use it every day and you know what? It works.

      Why do we have a Java version, multiple C++ versions, a .Net version, and Obective-C version.

      Because the people who make the platforms don't care about interoperability or at least not very much. We live and work in the real world, not the world as we might like it to be. You accept this and move on or at least most of us who want to get shit done do.

      but why can't we just add translate to all languages and implementations when we decide we need a translate() function. Why are the Java and .Net ones seperate, with different methods and signatures despite it being one concept.

      In other words, why doesn't everyone just speak English? Languages, whether natural or constructed as with programming languages, are used by humans with different personal preferences, likes, dislikes and needs. We don't add translate to all languages because not everybody needs it, wants it or even cares about it.

      It seems to bother you a great deal that other people "reinvent the wheel" instead of doing things the way that you think they ought to be doing them whereas I on other hand don't much care what other people do or what tools they use. As long as my clients are satisfied, I'm satisfied. If you want to spend your career being an architecture astronaut then by all means don't let me stop you, but I think you'll find that much of what we do in the world of paid software development is a matter of getting the job done and getting paid as quickly and expediently as possible so that we can move on to the next project. Duct tape and WD40 may not be glamorous tools, but they get the job done.

  16. Re:Proverb by arth1 · · Score: 2

    A good craftsman still doesn't blame the tools - he performs with what's at hand. Not having CNC routers didn't stop wood workers of the past from creating better products than today's staple-gun wielding "craftsmen" do.

    Do wonders with what you have, and strive for getting better tools.

  17. Re:Proverb by lgw · · Score: 5, Insightful

    A good craftsman can get by with suboptimal tools.

    A good craftsman is not content to "get by", almost by definition. If some part of your workflow sucks, you make it better, whether that's a better tool or more skill/training. If you're good, you never stop improving (until management forces BS on you, of course).

    --
    Socialism: a lie told by totalitarians and believed by fools.
  18. Never trust a programmer who doesn't like by OneAhead · · Score: 2

    Never trust a programmer who doesn't like programming (or calls it "anagonistic" and "masochistic").

  19. The guy in the control room by russotto · · Score: 2

    His name's Stroustrup. Bjarne Stroustrup.

  20. After Decades of Wondering What's Wrong by Greyfox · · Score: 4, Insightful
    After decades of wondering what's wrong with programming, did you ever stop to think that perhaps the problem... is you? If you don't like programming, why do you do it? I'm a programmer too, and I love it. I love making a thing and turning it on and watching it work as I designed it to. While other programmers wring their hands and wish they had a solution to a problem, I'll just fucking write the solution. I don't understand why they don't. They know the machine can perform the task they need and they know how to make the machine do things, but it never seems to occur to them to put those two things together. And I never, not even ONCE, asked why a playing card representation can't just look like a playing card. This despite having written a couple of playing card libraries.

    This guy seems to want an objects actions to be more apparent just from looking at the object, but he chose two rather bad examples. His math formula is as likely to look like gobbledygook to a non-math person as the program is. And the playing card has a fundamental set of rules associated with it that you still have to learn. You look at an ace of spades and you know that's an ace of spades, you know how it ranks in a poker hand, that it can normally be high or low (11 or 1) in blackjack or in a poker hand. But none of these things are obvious by looking at the card. If a person who'd never played cards before looked at it, he wouldn't know anything about it, either.

    --

    I'm trying to teach myself to set people on fire with my mind... Is it hot in here?

  21. Re:Sounds like he needs to use a Mac by boolithium · · Score: 2

    That is such crap. Name me any platform without C code at its core. Just because C is relegated to a role of providing a system in which people can run their shitty code, doesn't mean it is obsolete. If you don't know C, then you don't actually know how your computer works. If you don't know how your computer works, then you will write shitty code in any language you choose.

  22. Re:Shared Node.js? by scorp1us · · Score: 2

    VPSs are cheap. besides, it's an illogical computing unit since it is so abstracted.

    Native apps are a run around on android... that's what Qt is. Native.

    You still don't get it. Android reinvented the wheel yet again, in a context that is not re-usable outside of android.

    The fact that C++ can still be used on any platform, and effectively at that, proves that nothing has been added since C++.

    --
    Slashdot's rate-of-post filter: Preventing you from posting too many great ideas at once.
  23. Looking at the wrong part of the problem by Animats · · Score: 2

    The original author is looking at the part of the problem that gets the most attention, but not at the part that causes the most problems. He's looking at programming languages and their expressive problems. Those are real, but they're not why large programs break. Large programs usually break for non-local reasons. Typically, Part A was connected to Part B in some way such that an assumption made by part B was not satisfied by part A.

    C is particularly bad in this regard. C programs revolve round three issues: "how big is it", "who owns it", and "who locks it". The language helps with none of these issues, which is why we've been having buffer overflows and low-level security holes for three decades now. Most newer languages (not including C++) address the first two, although few address the third well.

    There have been attempts to get hold of this problem formally. "Design by contract" tries to do this. This allows talking about things like "Before calling F, you must call G to do setup.", or "parameter A must be greater than parameter B". Design by contract is a good idea but weighed down by so much formalism that few programmers use it. It's about blame - if a library you call fails, but the caller satisfied the contract in the call, it's the library's fault. Vendors hate that being made so explicit.

    it's a concept from aerospace - if A won't connect properly to B, the one which doesn't match the spec is wrong. If you can't decide who's wrong, the spec is wrong. This is why you can take a Pratt and Whitney engine off an airliner, put a Rolls Royce engine on, and have it work. Many aircraft components are interchangeable like that. It takes a lot of paperwork, inspections, and design reviews to make that work.

    The price we pay for not having this is a ritual-taboo approach to libraries. We have examples now, not reference manuals. If you do something that isn't in an example, and it doesn't work, it's your fault. This is the cause of much trouble with programming in the large.

    Database implementers get this, but almost nobody else in commercial programming does. (Not even the OS people, which is annoying.)

  24. Re:Select vs Choose vs Create by gweihir · · Score: 2

    You are right of course. The problem is that most "programmers" are actually one-trick ponies and do not know more than one language, and hence cannot chose a language at all. Hence your first option applies to most "programmers". The others have been wondering what this issue is actually about for decades.

    I mean, I can take a new language that has some merit, do some real task in it to get to know it better and get a real understanding what it is suitable for and what it is not suitable for. For most "programmers", this would involve "learning" the language first. For any competent programmer that requires a few days of looking at the reference often while writing the code, and maybe more redesign than usual. But it is not a big deal. (Of course some really convoluted and borderline unusable languages like Java or some 4GL stuff require more effort, often because the language is so broken that you need to master some "tools" just to be able to handle it.)

    --
    Most ACs are not even worth the keystrokes to insult them. Be generically insulted by this and ignored otherwise.
  25. Look, we've gone over this time and time again... by pfg23 · · Score: 2

    It's called software engineering. Most software is hacked, code-and-fix, cobbled together, unmaintainable dreck. Why? Because managers, clients, and customers blanch when presented with honest, realistic estimates based on metrics. So they'll often search out low-cost developers, eager (perhaps desperate) for work and who will agree to anything. They're probably minimally trained so they're not going to apply good practices (step-wise refinement, descriptive variable naming, OOA/D or SA/SD). They'll furiously churn out spaghetti-and-sausage-ware (not as tasty) that will miss the deadline anyway, barely work, but it'll be something. They invariably burn out and end up leaving and the next developer unlucky enough to be tasked with maintaining and extending the code will be blamed for taking too long for making changes because he or she will have to read, deconstruct, reverse engineer, and comprehend 100% more of the code than they would have had to otherwise.

    As Fred Brooks said, there's no silver bullet. But all is not lost. Static analysis tools, code complexity tools can sometimes--I repeat sometimes--help target the 20% of the code that actually needs 80% of the maintenance effort. However, mention McCabe to most programmers and you'll most likely get a blank stare back.

  26. BTW, by pfg23 · · Score: 2

    ...they'll either burn out, or even worse get promoted and you'll have to report to them. Yikes!

  27. The difficulty has evolved by trenobus · · Score: 2

    When I started 44+ years ago, the hard part of programming was getting programs to fit the memory size and processor speed of the computers of that day. We often wrote in assembly language, because it was often the only reasonable choice. Scientific code was written in FORTRAN, business code in COBOL (or maybe RPG). A little later C came along and became a viable alternative to assembly language for many things. There was much experimentation with languages in those days, so there were a lot of other languages around, but FORTRAN, COBOL, and C/assembly were the major ones in use.

    One thing we did have in those days, which I recall with great fondness, were manuals. There were manuals for users of computer systems, and manuals for programmers, describing the operating system and library interfaces. There were people who specialized in writing such manuals, and some of these people were quite good at it. But at some point manual writing became a lost art, and the industry is poorer for it.

    Over time, the machines reached a level of capability that exceeded the requirements for the kind of programs we were writing. It was rare to find a program (code, not data) that wouldn't fit in memory, and compiler technology had advanced to the point that we didn't need to obsess about the speed of code sequences in assembly language. So we started writing larger and more complex programs, and the main difficulty of programming was managing and testing the code. Source code control systems were developed, and eventually continuous build systems, but testing remains an important concern to this day.

    As computer networking evolved, the problems of managing concurrency and asynchronicity became more severe. Many approaches have been developed to deal with these problems, such as threads and monitors, but this remains an area of difficulty, and is more important than ever with the advent of multicore processors.

    By the mid-90's, we'd learned about all we could from the structured programming craze, and were well into the thrall of object-oriented programming, with many of us programming in C++. Large teams of programmers became common, and for them, source code control and continuous build systems were essential. Then the web finally arrived on the scene, and a great war between corporations for control of the web platform began.

    How did that war end? Well, everyone lost. We got HTML, CSS, and JavaScript. Some people call that a platform. I call it an abomination. But the alternative would have been to have no standard at all, which I'm sure would have pleased some of the combatant corporations, but was never really a viable option.

    Now we are in the age of frameworks. Everybody and his dog has a framework, and most of them are very poorly documented. I believe that it is only by virtue of forums like stackoverflow that some of them are usable at all. But many of them are aimed squarely at dealing with the problematic "web platform", and for that we should all be grateful. However, we really need to get some smart people together and design a new web platform, including a reasonable migration path from the current mess. The problem is, as we approach the 20-year anniversary of the web debacle, there is an entire generation of programmers who have never known anything else.

    The nature of programming will continue to evolve, but evolution is not a particularly efficient process. If we are indeed intelligent, we should be capable of intelligent design.