Slashdot Mirror
European Parliament Votes For Net Neutrality, Forbids Mobile Roaming Costs
First time accepted submitter TBerben (1061176) writes "The European Parliament has voted to accept the telecommunications reform bill. This bill simultaneously forbids mobile providers from charging roaming costs as of December 15, 2015 and guarantees net neutrality. Previous versions of the bill contained a much weaker definition of net neutrality, offering exemptions for 'specialized services,' but this was superseded in an amendment (original link, in Dutch) submitted by Dutch MEP Marietje Schaake (liberal fraction). Note that the legislation is not yet definitive: the Council of Ministers still has the deciding vote, but they are expected to follow the EP's vote."
I'm big on NN, but I do admit there are good points made for market driven forces to allow buildup of delivery services. That breaks down with the lack of competition at the ISP level. I assume its similar in Europe as the US.
Riddle me this. If Netflix pays and ISP for delivering its content with quality...should not all subscribers to that ISP, regardless of what plan they signed up for, get Netflix at the highest possible bandwidth?
This issue can't be piecemeal-ed.
I'm moving to Europe. The real parts, not the Russian parts.
The mobile provides in much of Europe are in the mid of a race to the bottom for years, whoever raises charges will go bankrupt because everyone will just move to another carrier.
Tourists either switch off their phones, or put them in flight mode, because of the exorbitant roaming charges they would otherwise make. I doubt they make up a significant portion of the operators' income. Your argument is easily reversed: the operators might experience an increase in revenue, once tourists actually start using their phones abroad.
Well, I'll be interested in seeing what coverage tourist hotspots will have in the future.. The incumbent operators will have little or no incetive to build out their network capacity/coverage, since the need to upgrade capacity is mainly driven by tourists. Which they will not make much money off anymore.
Tell me something, are americans subject to roaming charges when going from California to Nevada ? Or Utah ? Or Arizona ? Or Florida ?
For the EU it's the same thing. Although we are not a federation, and telco companies still think in terms of nation states, one reason for the being of the EU was a common market. And in a common market you cannot have roaming charges just because you happen to go from France to Italy or Germany for example.
Option D: Mobile operators don't make significant losses because roaming charges are a pretty small chunk of their income, and it's offset by increased usage by travellers.
My mobile provider (3, in the UK) has started rolling out a thing that lets you use your inclusive minutes and data allowance in other countries without any extra charge (the costs if you go over those limits are pretty dire). It was actually cheaper for me to use data on my mobile when I visit the US than it was for the people I was visiting, on my last trip. I think they've seen the writing on the wall and started making these agreements long before they were needed. They're able to do this and charge 3p/minute for calls, 2p/text and 1p/MB for data (pre-pay - if you get a bundle and buy in bulk then things are cheaper, but the bundles are time limited).
I am TheRaven on Soylent News
Option B : Mobile providers raise the standard charges the exact necessary amount to avoid having losses due to this law.
Option C : Mobile providers raise the standard charges more than necessary and justify the raise saying ordinary people need to pay for the yuppies who roam Europe in their sports cars while chatting on their phones.
The rates are largely set by the market - if they could get away with raising their standard rates, don't you think they would have already done so?
Also, you're ignoring a 4th option: they might actually make more money by having reasonable roaming charges. As an example, on my PAYG contract I pay £0.01/MB while at home, but while on a trip to Canada earlier in the year it would've been £6/MB - *600 times the domestic charge*. The upshot was that I simply turned off 3G on my phone and didn't use it at all - zero profit for the MNO. If the charges had been more reasonable then I probably would've left it turned on and they would've made some money. Same goes for voice calls too. (FWIW, roaming charges within the EU have been regulated for some time and are much much lower anyway)
This is basically the EU saying "you've shown you can't be trusted to not take the piss, so we're taking our ball and going home".
http://blog.nexusuk.org
Would you go to a tourist place where your internet that you intend to use to keep in touch with home sucks? Maybe you will, but how many like you?
Yes, I would. Because oddly, when I'm on holiday I'm actually more interested in doing holiday type stuff than spending my time using the internet. Its useful *occasionally* (getting weather forecasts, etc.) but it's not a huge loss to not have it. Which is why I turn roaming data off on my phone when I go abroad and just use wifi hotspots in cafes, etc. on the occasions I want to use the internet.
http://blog.nexusuk.org
That would be excellent if this happened, although unlikely given how much the local population that supports the tourist trade is likely to rely on that same mobile coverage. I go on vacation to *get away* from the daily grind, yet of late it has got to the point that you can't go anywhere without someone yakking on a mobile phone, and I go to some pretty out of the way places to try and make that happen. The absolute last thing you want to hear when you reach Everest Base Camp, slightly out of breath from the lack of oxygen and effort, and are just starting to take in the amazing view is:
*Latest naff ringtone*
"Hello...?"
*pause*
"Yes, I'm climbing Mount Everest!"
It kind of ruins the moment, you know?
UNIX? They're not even circumcised! Savages!
Sorry, but that's the internal business of orange or Vodafone.
There WAS a reason, back when phone companies were indeed seperate companies, so the roaming costs were justified for those additional costs for both inter-company and inter-country accounting and banking.
But the EU did as much as they could to get rid of those additional costs for international business. A company (in ANY business down to a family plumbing business!) can now serve the whole of europe without worrying about different tax, costumer protection, safety, or pipe-gauge regulations. The even invented a whole new currency for a bunch of countries, just to make business easier.
At the same time, a wave of mergers hit the cellphone market with a few big players being active in every european country. ALSO to save money and getting rid of that internal accounting.
If they're still loosing money for "coordinating internal records", it's their own fault and nothing that would justify roaming charges.
bickerdyke
Also, you're ignoring a 4th option: they might actually make more money by having reasonable roaming charges.
It is a very good option, but she has no place in current sociopathic way of thinking of corporations. Currently they only use the option that brings maximum profit in minimum time, no matter the consequences.
Religion: The greatest weapon of mass destruction of all time
Let's say the carrier currently charges EUR 1/MB for a service that costs them EUR 0.02/MB to provide, and customers use 1 million megabytes. That's EUR 20,000 in costs and EUR 980,000 in profit.
Then they are forced to charge their domestic rate of EUR 0.10/MB for roaming data, and customers stop being stingy and use 20 million megabytes. That's EUR 400,000 in costs and EUR 1,600,000 in profit.
Obviously these numbers are plucked straight from my ass but surely you can see how it's possible. Roaming charges are almost pure profit as it is, and that's only possible because we're a captive market.
P.S. What is up with Slashdot still not being able to display the Euro symbol (â)? This is 2014, isn't it?
"Patriotism is your conviction that this country is superior to all other countries because you were born in it." -- GBS
Option C : Mobile providers raise the standard charges more than necessary and justify the raise saying ordinary people need to pay for the yuppies who roam Europe in their sports cars while chatting on their phones
Or low paid workers going abroad to find work can afford to phone home. Or workers who commute across borders don't have to turn their phones off.
Also, you're ignoring a 4th option: they might actually make more money by having reasonable roaming charges.
This bill is about not having *any* roaming charges. You pay the same abroad as you do at home.
No sig today...
There's little actual cost involved in facilitating roaming. What happens is that every network charges the others high roaming charges, and nobody has any incentive to be the first one to drop and therefore lose the money.
No kidding!!! What do you say at this point?
I wondered how this would affect their rates, then a google search produced -
http://www.bizjournals.com/triad/prnewswire/press_releases/North_Carolina/2014/04/02/LA96177
Cool for those that frequent travel over the pond often, but, for the carribeans, south, central americas, no love -
$1.71per min outgoing calls
$1.13per min incoming calls
$0.51per SMS
$8.57per MB
If you're one who vacation frequently in these spots, & may have to overcome the language & time barriers upon stepping off the plane, the truphone sim, is good ONLY for a quick fast, until you can land a local prepaid sim, which may take & communicational effort..
I'm thinking at worst, in place such as St Martin, where the island is divided on ither side with cell provider coverage (I think digicel's trying to change that), the work hunting down & obtaining a prepaid sim when you switch sides from French to Dutch..
the roaming charges of carriers, are akin to interests charges of financial institutes..
Right, I forgot, markets invariably find optimal price points on their own, and regulation never helps anything. See you in church.
"Patriotism is your conviction that this country is superior to all other countries because you were born in it." -- GBS
While I largely agree, Google maps and translate can be pretty useful. And to a lesser degree, posting photos on social networks is nice, if not all that important.
I've found that preloading your tablet / phone with openstreetmap maps works extremely well - I spent 2 weeks navigating around the Canadian rockies with Osmand running on a tablet and had no problems. Posting photos on social networks can probably wait until you're within range of a wifi hotspot.
http://blog.nexusuk.org
Except for Three UK who have already ended call roaming charges in eleven foreign countries - including the USA.
And for certain packages they've removed data roaming charges too (subject to limits.)
Incidentally 97 percent of their network traffic is data.