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Snowden Queries Putin On Live TV Regarding Russian Internet Surveillance

Posted by timothy on from the keep-to-the-script-now dept.

Rambo Tribble (1273454) writes "Edward Snowden appeared on a Russian television call-in show to ask Russian President Vladimir Putin about policies of mass surveillance. The exchange has a canned quality which will likely lead to questions regarding the integrity of Snowden's actions, in the query of his host in asylum."

31 of 396 comments (clear)

  1. Useful Idiot by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Insightful

    These propaganda sessions for Putin are pre-staged so Snowden has allowed himself to be used as a "propaganda tool". Considering how freedoms are curtailed in Russia, it seriously deminishes Snowden's reputation.

    1. Re:Useful Idiot by Vadim+Grinshpun · · Score: 5, Interesting

      While true, your statement also assumes he had a choice...

    2. Re:Useful Idiot by Hadlock · · Score: 5, Insightful

      It's interesting what one will do when your political asylum is up for renewal.

      --
      moox. for a new generation.
    3. Re:Useful Idiot by CanHasDlY · · Score: 5, Insightful

      Doesn't this call into question everything Snowden has said?

      Nice try. People who make any of this about Snowden are trying to hide the fact that the government is violating the constitution and people's fundamental liberties.

      --
      An enigma, wrapped in a riddle, shrouded in bacon and cheese
    4. Re:Useful Idiot by Entropius · · Score: 5, Insightful

      Yep -- if the US wanted to not give Putin a propaganda tool, they could have welcomed him back home with a guarantee of safety.

      We made our choice, and he took refuge in the only place he could.

    5. Re:Useful Idiot by nomanisanisland · · Score: 5, Insightful

      He probably could have tried legal measures to implement reform if it was actually more important to him than being famous

      Really? What legal measures could he have tried while remaining in the US? He would have been arrested faster than SSD read times, and never heard from again for "national security" reasons. The government's first response was to label him a traitor - they don't let you have much freedom as a traitor, in case you didn't know. I doubt any legal measures he could have tried before being arrested as a traitor would even have been reported on by the press, again for national security reasons.

      Whether you think his revelations were right or wrong, I think you'd have to agree he couldn't have truly revealed anything successfully by staying in the US.

    6. Re:Useful Idiot by LordLimecat · · Score: 5, Insightful

      He chose to flee to the two countries with the BIGGEST free speech / surveillance issues in the world-- China and Russia-- after publicly blowing the whistle on much lesser instances in the US.

      I mean we're throwing a fit about the NSA's capturing of "metadata". China just snorts up every bit of cell and internet data that goes in or out of any ISP or carrier, and they barely attempt to hide it. Im sure Russia is pretty close.

      So yes, he had a choice, and he made it about 8 months ago, and it was a remarkably bad one.

    7. Re:Useful Idiot by bigwheel · · Score: 4, Interesting

      Snowden's best chance of survival is to stay in the limelight, where his keepers will risk public scrutiny if he is harmed. So, assuming that becoming a tool was Snowden's only choice, his required tool-task wasn't that bad. Just lob a softball question to Putin, and let Putin respond with propaganda. Snowden didn't have to lie or endorse anything, and it gave him the necessary renewal of his 15 minutes of fame.

    8. Re:Useful Idiot by Kremmy · · Score: 5, Insightful

      I'm gonna go out of my way and say that every single congress critter was in on it, right up until they realized they were being watched as well.

    9. Re:Useful Idiot by N1AK · · Score: 5, Insightful

      I mean we're throwing a fit about the NSA's capturing of "metadata". China just snorts up every bit of cell and internet data that goes in or out of any ISP or carrier, and they barely attempt to hide it. Im sure Russia is pretty close.

      What China does in surveillance of their own citizens isn't acceptable in my opinion but how is "they're even worse" a valid defence for the US which has constantly acted like it stands apart on these matters. Secondly, and something I think Americans really don't appreciate, as someone from outside both China and the US I know China would probably try and intercept my calls etc, but at least they don't pretend to be my friend while they are at it which America has been.

      I'm yet to hear a good criticism of how Snowden behaved. Arguments like "he should have stayed within the system" are laughable when one considers what he already tried and the fates of others who tried, the but, but, but someone else is worse argument is relative and just shoddy misdirection. I'm incredibly grateful that he had the balls to share what he knew with the world.

    10. Re:Useful Idiot by Kremmy · · Score: 5, Insightful

      Do you not remember the grounding of a presidential figure's aircraft on the basis of the possibility that Snowden was on it? To say this man had a choice is to completely ignore the situation. 100 percent.

    11. Re:Useful Idiot by nomanisanisland · · Score: 4, Interesting

      He chose to flee to the two countries with the BIGGEST free speech / surveillance issues in the world-- China and Russia-- after publicly blowing the whistle on much lesser instances in the US.

      I mean we're throwing a fit about the NSA's capturing of "metadata". China just snorts up every bit of cell and internet data that goes in or out of any ISP or carrier, and they barely attempt to hide it. Im sure Russia is pretty close.

      I don't know about you, but I don't want my country to only have to be slightly better than China or Russia. I don't give a crap how bad or good Russia or China are; I only care that my country abide by the values it claims to uphold. Being China++ doesn't mean much.

    12. Re:Useful Idiot by cold+fjord · · Score: 4, Interesting

      That isn't actually true. The contractor protections were not as firm, but they apparently existed. (And from what I've read that has been addressed now.) And I'm pretty sure that would be a moot question if he had gone to Congress.

      --
      much of left-wing thought is a kind of playing with fire by people who don't even know that fire is hot - George Orwell
    13. Re:Useful Idiot by LordLimecat · · Score: 4, Insightful

      So the US is enough of a "Big Bad" that its worth Snowden risking his life.... so he flees to an even Bigger Bad, and cooperates with their propaganda machine.

      No choice my foot.

    14. Re:Useful Idiot by rahvin112 · · Score: 4, Interesting

      I think Snowden did the right thing when he revealed the NSA blanket spying on the US public. I think he did the wrong thing when he revealed legitimate spying on foreign nations such as the revelations about spying on the Chinese military. I think the former was so important that he deserved an award for it. I think the later was so damaging to our legitimate foreign espionage that he should be jailed for it.

      If he ever returns to the US he should be publicly honored for the former and jailed for the later. It's unfortunate that for whatever reason he came up with that he decided to reveal that legitimate espionage. It's destroyed his reputation among most Americans and in truth it's damaged the good stuff he did do. All those foreign spying revelations have ultimately destroyed his legacy, if he had stayed on topic of mass spying on the American people (his claimed goal) he might have been able to return to the US someday. As it stands if he ever returns he'll likely spend the rest of his life in prison and most Americans are going to remember him as a traitor.

    15. Re:Useful Idiot by bossk538 · · Score: 5, Insightful

      That's presuming that either Snowden intended to help Putin all along, or that he realized that his safety is not guaranteed, no matter what the US says. Either way, the way the US handled his flight was nothing short of incompetent and disgraceful.

    16. Re:Useful Idiot by amorsen · · Score: 5, Insightful

      So you would rather that he should have stayed to be broken like Manning?

      --
      Finally! A year of moderation! Ready for 2019?
    17. Re:Useful Idiot by jkauzlar · · Score: 4, Interesting

      As I said elsewhere, this argument makes no sense. We've shown Americans how we deal with leakers by our handling of Bradley/Chelsea Manning. Snowden had no choice but to go to our enemies for asylum. He's an American. For him to be a hypocrite, he'd have to spy on americans. If he has to do propaganda for the Russians to survive, then who cares? It's the Russians' problem, not ours.

    18. Re:Useful Idiot by Charliemopps · · Score: 4, Insightful

      You know, when I first saw this I though "Oh God..." but after I had a few minutes to think about it, I came to the conclusion: I, nor anyone else here on slashdot, will ever do anything in our lifetimes as significant as what Edward Snowden did last year. And now he's in a very precarious situation. I suspect he could be used as a bargaining chip by Russia. So whatever he has to say to stay alive in the near future is ok with me. I'll not fault the guy. He already did his good deed for this lifetime.

    19. Re:Useful Idiot by quantaman · · Score: 5, Interesting

      What China does in surveillance of their own citizens isn't acceptable in my opinion but how is "they're even worse" a valid defence for the US which has constantly acted like it stands apart on these matters. Secondly, and something I think Americans really don't appreciate, as someone from outside both China and the US I know China would probably try and intercept my calls etc, but at least they don't pretend to be my friend while they are at it which America has been.

      I don't think China and Russia being worse is a valid defence for the US. But I do think it's a valid point of criticism for Snowden. It is a bit hypocritical to criticize the US's surveillance activities, and then flee to the only two major powers that are demonstrably worse.

      That being said I think he did have understandable motives, he wanted to go to somewhere that wouldn't extradite him to the US. That means a country that is a) not particularly friendly with the US, and b) powerful enough to resist US pressure, that pretty much means China and Russia. As the Evo Morales grounding incident demonstrates Europe was not an option. Maybe Ecuador was but they may not have been big enough and he still had to get there.

      It's still unfortunate that he's in Russia, I think the Ukraine incident has revealed that Putin is a bit crazier than anyone anticipated and Snowden's position more tenuous. The Russians may have been threatening to send him back to the US as a concession to ease the sanctions unless he starts cooperating in their propaganda.

      --
      I stole this Sig
    20. Re:Useful Idiot by Nethemas+the+Great · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Espionage is never legitimate unless you consider it acceptable for others to do it to you in the manner in which you do it to them. The hypocrisy of the NSA, CIA, GCHQ, BND, Mossad, FSB, etc. is grossly palpable. Everyone seems to do it, yet it's "shame on you" if anyone does it them. Pulling down the curtains was an important demonstration of collective, well deserved shame.

      This crap belongs in movies and video games, not the real world. The citizenry of the world's nations should not be the game pieces used in the amusement and distraction of political and military rulers.

      --
      Two of my imaginary friends reproduced once ... with negative results.
  2. Old proverb by Opportunist · · Score: 5, Insightful

    It loses a bit in the translation but essentially it says "When you're living with wolves, you better learn fast how to howl, lest they might think you're a sheep".

    --
    We used to have a Bill of Rights. Now, with the rights gone, all we have left is the bill.
    1. Re:Old proverb by mbone · · Score: 4, Informative

      The man this is supposed to be from is denying it, and also denying he ever claimed the title it gives him. See this, from Kiev Jewish.

  3. Putin: "If anyone tells you we spy on them" by david.emery · · Score: 4, Funny

    "We will hear and they will be punished!!!"

  4. Voluntary? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Insightful

    I wouldn't put it past the Russians to stage such an appearance by threatening Snowden. In fact, that's the most likely scenario; Putin could hand him over to the US at any time.

    1. Re:Voluntary? by IamTheRealMike · · Score: 5, Insightful

      He didn't choose Moscow. He chose Latin America and got stuck in Russia when the USA revoked his passport. It's the US governments fault he's now in Russia and yet they try and paint him as a traitor who ran to the Russians - yet more US hypocrisy and propaganda.

    2. Re:Voluntary? by IamTheRealMike · · Score: 4, Interesting

      Getting from Hong Kong to Ecuador (or wherever he was going) without flying over any US or allied territory requires strange routes - just go to a flight booking flight and notice that the returned results mostly involve changes in the USA.

      Taking such a route was wise - look at how US allies forced down the presidential jet of a LatAm leader just to search for Snowden.

      But I'm really not sure why you're arguing with me about this. What happened to Snowden is a matter of public record, it's not something that's up for debate. He got stuck in Russia because the USA revoked his passport and he then wasn't allowed to board his onward flight. But once it became clear that no plane was safe, not even those with diplomatic immunity, if it flew over any US allied territory, he would have been an idiot to leave anyway because that would have been a direct flight into a lifetime of solitary confinement.

  5. Putin actually speaks the truth by klingens · · Score: 5, Interesting

    But you have to read the statement carefully to understand what he says. It is true that Russia doesn't have the money to put everyone under surveillance like the US does.
    So they might not do a mass surveillance like the US, instead they just put everyone interesting under direct surveillance: every Duma representative, every Oligarch, and especially everyone who is in public politicial opposition to President Putin. The NSA can't do that even when they would want to, so they simply target everyone: it's wasteful but now they can't be accused of any bias or that they target anyone they don't like.

  6. In Mother Russa... by bobbied · · Score: 4, Insightful

    Even the questions you can ask are provided by the state..

    OF COURSE it was scripted and likely highly edited. This is 100% propaganda aimed squarely at the west by Putin. Snowden is just being used to attract attention and shape the message. He's just a pawn in a much larger game.

    Reading between the lines though, I wonder what Putin is up to. Why bother with this?

    --
    "File to fit, pound to insert, paint to match" - Aircraft Maintenance 101
  7. Re:Snowden never had integrity by fremsley471 · · Score: 4, Insightful

    To anyone who ever says that Snowden told the terrorists about bugging. The 2010 film Four Lions has a scene with the terrorist plotters using a spoof on Disney's "Club Penguin", making it the only safe method to chat to each other (it's a black comedy). Interception was so widely known, it was a joke (see Bin Laden's lack of house-hold comms).

    The people who didn't suspect that electronic comms were all thoroughly bugged were the other 99.999999% of the population. They thought the 'goodies' were targeting the 'baddies'.

  8. dunno what to say by some1into_ISP · · Score: 5, Informative

    As someone into the business, there's only two prerequisites (concerning surveillance) to operate as an ISP in Russia. The first one is that you must (by the law) to store your ISP's netflow for 2 years, and to provide information for a) specific user (given by First + Last name) or b) by the IP address involved, to a) police, b) FSB or c) court, when they wanted to. And the second one, is that ISP required (by the law) to install surveillance equipment, sufficent enough to capture all the traffic of ISP's very own local clients (not the transit ones). That equipment is called "SORM" which means something like "support of investigation operations". That equipment is a bulk storage that is filled with data from selected customer IP when configured to. Equipment is controlled from local FSB office, using only E1 (smth like DS1) control channel. There's no bulk channel between ISP and FSB office because there's no bulk money at local government to pay to ISP for that. When they think they had gathered enough data. for specific subject, they can use this captured data from the SORM storage in the court. With the current ISP traffic plans, that storage can only held smth like 2hrs of all client's traffic captured simultaneously. Could you consider this as a "massive surveillance"?