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How the FCC Plans To Save the Internet By Destroying It

New submitter dislikes_corruption writes: "Stopping the recently announced plan by the FCC to end net neutrality is going to require a significant outcry by the public at large, a public that isn't particularly well versed on the issue or why they should care. Ryan Singel, a former editor at Wired, has written a thorough and easy to understand primer on the FCC's plan, the history behind it, and how it will impact the Internet should it come to pass. It's suitable for your neophyte parent, spouse, or sibling. In the meantime, the FCC has opened a new inbox (openinternet@fcc.gov) for public comments on the decision, there's a petition to sign at whitehouse.gov, and you can (and should) contact your congressmen."

37 of 217 comments (clear)

  1. Congressional fix? by MacAndrew · · Score: 3, Interesting

    It seems to me the lobbying forces on the part of the content providers, Netflix et al., would be pretty formidable—unless they think the price is worth it to suppress upstart competition. Which is it?

    1. Re: Congressional fix? by MacAndrew · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Pretty damn well. You can't believe the difference things like lifting the bar to pre-existing conditions makes to families like ours. That they could have better job with this behemoth project, I don't doubt. That they would have done a better job if the other half Congress hadn't been obstuctionist jerks, I don't doubt either. Growing pains, not fault with the basic concept.

      To drift back on topic: ditto for net neutrality. Sometimes we do better without the market carved into big corporate fiefdoms and fake competition.

    2. Re:Congressional fix? by Shakrai · · Score: 3, Insightful

      unless they think the price is worth it to suppress upstart competition

      Ding ding ding, we have a winner!

      People in favor of "regulation" because of the evils of "big business" need to familiarize themselves with the concept of regulatory capture. Big business loves regulation, because they've got legions of lawyers and compliance officers at their disposal, resources unavailable to any would-be start up. George Will writes about this topic frequently, in industries ranging from undertakers to electricians to nail salons.

      --
      I want peace on earth and goodwill toward man.
      We are the United States Government! We don't do that sort of thing.
    3. Re: Congressional fix? by J.+J.+Ramsey · · Score: 4, Informative

      You trade pre-existing support now for death panels later. Have fun.

      Repeating as fact something that Politifact had rated as "Lie of the Year" for 2009 does not help your credibility.

    4. Re: Congressional fix? by Belial6 · · Score: 5, Insightful

      What health insurance doesn't have "death panels"? You do realize that there has never been a time that having health insurance meant that the insurance company would give you unlimited care, right?

    5. Re:Congressional fix? by MacAndrew · · Score: 4, Insightful

      And I suppose big business loves non-regulation, with the opportunities of monopoly. So win-win?

      I'll agree that regulation risks just shifting wealth from one corporate interest to another. Also, that regulaiton introduces its own barriers to competition. But to condemn regulation per se is mindless. We got enough of the robber barons ages ago.

      Now, back to my question.... which way will things tilt, and how much will the public interest matter.

    6. Re:Congressional fix? by MacAndrew · · Score: 2

      Well, we'll have to differ then. The free market is an ideal, but a self-executing free market is a rarity. No regulation (or no government) is a nice jingle but there will always be something. (Is anyone saying more regulation/govenrment for its own sake? No, but they can be nasty side effects.) It's the law itself. Even the criminal law is a form of regulation—especially unlikely to be banned—and yes amending, sometimes repealing, it can improve it. That said, I do sympathize with the libertarian perspective (versus dogma) and think the government can be seen as just another ... corporation. Which means, regulate with care, not never.

      "Robber baron" just sounds cool. I don't think we have classic monopolies like oil and steel, but less the landscape is pretty messed up, and getting worse so with the repeal of Glass-Steagal and so on..... Just my 2 against $2 trillion.

    7. Re:Congressional fix? by artor3 · · Score: 5, Informative

      Wait, I think you're confused.

      "Regulation" in this case would be the FCC instituting net neutrality, so that the ISPs have to treat all comers equally. E.g., Comcast can't speed up Hulu at the expense of some small start-up video streaming site.

      The big businesses want to kill net neutrality because that will let them crush any new start-ups, and ensure that they maintain control of what we watch for generations to come. Sites like Netflix never would have gotten off the ground without net neutrality.

      The big businesses are trying to get rid of regulations, and you've twisted it around to say that we need to ...get rid of regulations. Either you're confused, or just some corporate bootlicker.

    8. Re: Congressional fix? by NFN_NLN · · Score: 2

      There is no such thing as death panels. It is just the insurance company working in "mysterious ways". That out has been working for god since the beginning of time and he gets away with starving children and gruesome deaths of innocent people by the hundreds.

    9. Re: Congressional fix? by phantomfive · · Score: 2

      Citing politifact as anything doesn't help your credibility. If you read them often, you'll find they are just editorialism in the guise of fact checking.

      --
      "First they came for the slanderers and i said nothing."
    10. Re: Congressional fix? by bmo · · Score: 2

      >death panels

      You mean the insurance companies themselves? You know, the ones that would rather see you die than hand over the money for chemotherapy? Even if the US has the best healthcare in the world (we don't) it doesn't do you any good if you can't fucking pay for it in the so-called "free market" (which never existed, ever, except in your fevered imagination).

      >ditto for net neutrality

      Yeah, another imbecilic "talking point" originated by the right-wing-media owners (not you, obviously), tacitly agreed to by the left-wing media giants, and circulated round-and-round in the echo chamber-pots of the right-wing-nut-0-sphere.

      --
      BMO

    11. Re:Congressional fix? by Shakrai · · Score: 2

      Sites like Netflix never would have gotten off the ground without net neutrality.

      And yet Netflix is one of the biggest abusers ever of the structure that built the internet. They've abused peering relationships to dump their traffic onto other providers while paying a fraction of what you or I would pay for similar traffic levels. They're currently pushing the absurd theory that they should get settlement free peering even though such agreements have traditionally been limited to connections with a roughly equal balance of traffic.

      The internet was built on the notion that providers get paid for delivering bits from point A to point B. You want me to get your traffic closer to its final destination? Pay me, or take a similar amount of traffic off my hands. That's how it has worked since the internet went private. The network neutrality advocates are well intentioned but ill informed regarding the economics of peering and the history of the internet. If you want to change the ecosystem you're going to need a convincing argument for why we need to regulate something that only took off because it was largely free of regulation. You'll need more to win me over than "What if" arguments and AT&T's CEO opening mouth and inserting foot.

      --
      I want peace on earth and goodwill toward man.
      We are the United States Government! We don't do that sort of thing.
    12. Re: Congressional fix? by TrollstonButterbeans · · Score: 5, Insightful

      It is bad enough you responded to derail troll. Worse that someone didn't mod both of you offtopic.

      Someone actually hurt this more by upmodding your reply to a derail.

      This is why our political system is broke, try to point out how Net Neutrality is vital, some goon brings up healthcare.

      Then someone else who thinks he is smart, agrees to change the conversation to healthcare to respond to a goon.

      BAM! You've been suckered and taken your eye off the ball: The ball is Net Neutrality.

      Don't take your eye off the ball.

      --
      Priest: "Universe from nothing, no laws of physics, sped up time"+ huge discrepancies. Creationism? No. Big Bang Theory
    13. Re: Congressional fix? by Daniel_Staal · · Score: 2

      That wasn't even what they were talking about. The 'death panels' was a requirement that coverage included sitting down with your doctor, possibly a counselor, your family, etc. when you had a fatal (or likely fatal) condition to discuss end-of-life care options. So you could make an informed decision about what you wanted.

      How that got warped into 'the government's going to kill you', I have no clue.

      --
      'Sensible' is a curse word.
    14. Re:Congressional fix? by Twanfox · · Score: 2

      Netflix isn't a network carrier, they are a content provider. That would seem to be problem #1 with your comments. Problem #2 is that content must be delivered to the requester, the end user. This idea that Netflix's CDN must pay to another carrier via peering trunks because the data is going to that other carrier's user doesn't seem much like a peering relationship. I mean, how can you be a peer with a local ISP? That Comcast built their own network backbone to run traffic along is nice and all that, but they're trying to be local ISP and a transit ISP at the same time. They've changed the look of the traditional model of Internet interconnects and are attempting to declare that everyone (customer and transit ISPs alike) must pay them to deliver content their own users are requesting. It is an abuse of these peering agreements, in my opinion.

    15. Re:Congressional fix? by rtb61 · · Score: 2

      Lie, told by a liar. Netflix generates very little traffic. Netflix customers generate all of the traffic. The end user at the location of their choice, connects to the Netflix site and sends a request for data firstly of content selection system and then of the content itself. Your bullshit is like claiming a supermarket fills roads full of traffic. The traffic is generated by customers driving to the store paying for what they want and returning home. All that's corruptly happening is a toll booth is being placed on the entry to the supermarket, forcing the customer to pay coming and going, the supermarket doesn't pay the customer does. Of course there wont be no toll on supermarkets owned by the toll operator, so basically it is all about anti-competitive behaviour and corrupt corporate practices.

      --
      Chaos - everything, everywhere, everywhen
    16. Re: Congressional fix? by Pseudonym · · Score: 2

      When government controls coverage (and it now does) and that coverage goes over budget... costs WILL be reduced

      Right now the US spends the highest proportion of GDP on health care of any developed country, and in return gets consistently mediocre outcomes. I bloody well hope costs will be reduced.

      --
      sub f{($f)=@_;print"$f(q{$f});";}f(q{sub f{($f)=@_;print"$f(q{$f});";}f});
    17. Re: Congressional fix? by Will.Woodhull · · Score: 2

      As parent post points out, the insurance industry is HUGE, one of the largest industries in the USA.

      And yet, insurance produces nothing: it is not manufacture. It does not provide services that facilitate manufacture, transport of goods, or merchant affairs. The insurance industry does nothing except provide a means for you to bet against yourself; it is an abased form of gambling that contributes not one penny toward creating wealth.

      Since the government cannot outlaw it, the government should have total control over it. Being as how the insurance industry is the greatest threat to capitalism that the USA has ever faced, and one of the basic tenets of the USA government is that it should guard capitalism against threats.

      --
      Will
    18. Re: Congressional fix? by bbsalem · · Score: 2

      Both of you are missing the point, or getting suckered by elitist arguments. As it stands now only a tiny minority of people can pay fully for their health care. The ACA sounded like a good idea until you analyze it as 1) Not addressing the root causes for the costs of health care in the U.S. which are twice as high per capeta as the next most expensive nation, and 2) That the ACA as enacted by Congress is basically subdedized insurance with no controls on private insurers raising premiums and on controlling what the health care industry gets to charge. The worst case scenereo for the Conservatives who fought against it, may either be the only fix, that in order to provide health care to a majority it has to be nationalized just to get cost disclosures and controls, or it becomes another example of society degrading into have and have-nots, which Conservatives, who are to a man elitist, don't mind, but that will further degrade the society. Inequalities are a real threat to this nation especially when people remember their not being an issue. When people have tasted fairness and equality they behave badly when it is taken away.

      Something similar is going to happen to the Internet and over the issue of net-neutrality, which has become moot as ISVs throttle connections and Google Search biases results. The Social Media business model is all about biasing results of searches so that business partners are favored; that is at least as serious a problem as biasing access to IP addresses. The Internet is then killing itself through spying, spamming, and Social Media is a huge cause. People are getting turned off, even despite Facebook's revenue claims, just as death panels in insurance companies or Midicare are a threat to the health care status quo, a major abuse of data Facebook is gathering on anyone who visits the site would be enough to frighten people off the Internet.

      Just as failure of health care might prompt doing something completely differently, note the pressure on health care professionals to donate their time to free clinics to help the under served. so maybe the answer to on-line communication is to imagine a non-IP network that removes the choak points of the current Internet and one which uses much more dynamic routing, perhaps even communication technology that avoids both the wired Internet and the wireless cartels, and for the reason of better communication that is more secure. Such a network could be quite different from the current Internet. Users may have to adjust to latent communications, but if you remember the days of UUCP and dialup, that is only a delay of instant gratification. You may need to accept that in order to make it harder for governments and corporations to spy on you, and to be free of the abuses of social media.

      Likewise you might have to accept that nationalizing health care, or at least the threat of it, might force the health care industry to disclose its costs and its profits and the same for insurers. People love to hate government when graft is exposed. Those who cry the most about the abuse of government power fail to own up to the fact that if private business had to disclose as much it too would be blamed for graft, and since people are people everywhere, and abuse of power occurs often in secret. it may be that the threat of socialism might force the health care industry and related business to clean their house and justify their costs. That included some responsibility on the part of the public to begin asking about whether their health care dollar is used wisely by the industry. One thing is clear, Medicare is a huge player in dealing with costs, just through its share of the market, and the government could have a large effect on what everybody does by just holding providers accountable. It may be that the Congress in trying to reduce entitlements was prevented much more by those professions and businesses who had come to be used to their subsedy and less by concern for the recipients of the services.

  2. And yet by koan · · Score: 2

    I'm mocked when I point out the blatant conspiracy between corporations and the FCC.

    --
    "If any question why we died, Tell them because our fathers lied."
  3. The general public is incredibly stupid by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Insightful

    Capitalism is nice until corporations grow big enough. At some point they start to strive towards a monopoly and this is where the core idea of capitalism dies. It's the end of competition and consumers suffer the most.

    The political spectrum in the US needs some new parties and fast.

  4. Another petition by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Informative

    https://petitions.whitehouse.gov/petition/maintain-true-net-neutrality-protect-freedom-information-united-states/9sxxdBgy

  5. They don't care. by dicobalt · · Score: 2

    They have the lobby money, they vote the way they are told to vote by the guys who have the nice suits and lots of money. Because if they don't, the Internet will fall to pieces for the entire country, nay the world. As the guys in suits have said it will happen, unless you choose them as your savior.

    1. Re:They don't care. by Albanach · · Score: 2

      The rest of the world will likely ignore this, as most other countries have avoided creating such duopoly/monopoly situations as have been encouraged by regulation in the United States. Where providers have to compete, there's little incentive to be the carrier that slows down service X,Y or Z. If necessary, the other countries that do have monopolies will use regulation to achieve much the same.

  6. Be Specific by dislikes_corruption · · Score: 4, Informative

    I should have included this in the summary: when you write to the FCC or your congressmen be specific - we need to reclassify Internet providers as common carriers. If you just say you're in favor of net neutrality they'll weasel around it again. They've already tried to redefine net neutrality as whatever it is that they're doing at the moment.

    1. Re:Be Specific by dislikes_corruption · · Score: 4, Informative

      What, you've forgotten about SOPA already? Things do happen when you spread the word widely enough.

      That study about the US being an oligarchy basically comes down to the Citizen's United decision paving the way for deep and widespread corruption. And that's a huge problem, no question, bigger than net neutrality for sure. But SOPA happened just last year, well after Citizen's United was passed. The Oligarchs don't control everything, just most of it.

      You are certainly right to be outraged, maybe even despondent, but your fatalism isn't going to help anything. If you're upset about the oligarchy study you have two options: find a way to leave the country - Canada is nice, and apparently they have the richest middle class in the world now. Or you can volunteer for a campaign finance amendment which would overturn the Citizen's United decision.

      Don't underestimate that second option. At the very least it would be a good life experience. Maybe you'd learn something, maybe you'd accomplish something, but at the very least you'd be contributing and doing something a little different with your time.

  7. The problem is having lobbyists heading the FCC by fightinfilipino · · Score: 3, Informative

    Tom Wheeler and other cable lobbyists should not and must not be in charge of any agency that purports to be for the public good.

    sign this petition to target that very problem: http://wh.gov/lwhr8

    1. Re:The problem is having lobbyists heading the FCC by Andrio · · Score: 5, Insightful

      Anyone who is against net neutrality either (1) has no understanding of what it means, or (2) is being bankrolled by a corporate interest. I doubt that the FCC doesn't understand what net neutrality is, so that only leaves option (2).

      Funny how net neutrality suddenly dies as soon as a former telecom lobbyist/CEO became the FCC chairman.

      --
      The Internet King? I wonder if he could provide faster nudity.
    2. Re:The problem is having lobbyists heading the FCC by AK+Marc · · Score: 3, Informative

      Mostly people who don't know what it means. So far, *every* version of net neutrality has allowed for throttling of P2P for "network health" but so many people claim (wrongly) that net neutrality would make it illegal for a provider to deliberately and with justification, control their own network.

      There are a number of loonitarians here that object on principle regarding a government regulation on a private network. Yes, that comes down to ignorance of what the regulation is, but also a general objection to any and all regulations, no matter how beneficial.

  8. Not suitable by raarts · · Score: 2

    I have read Ryan Singel's article. It is NOT "suitable for your neophyte parent, spouse, or sibling."
    Far too long and too complicated. My father (who is 76 and worked in insurance) would not understand any of it.

    I think we all will have a very hard time explaining this to the public

  9. I sent this to each of the Commissioners: by CAOgdin · · Score: 5, Insightful

    The United States of America was founded on principles of justice and freedom for all.

    o During the Oklahoma Land Run of 1889, there were no special "carve-outs" for people of wealth. Every participant started racing at the sound of the starter's gun.

    o When railroads were built, there were special coaches for first class, but they were part of the same train, going at the same speed, along the same route, to the same destination.

    o While the rich can buy their own jet aircraft, the Air Traffic Control system that manages all aircraft in the skies give no special treatment to the jet aircraft, nor the lone pilot in a Piper Cub.

    o When Eisenhower created the Interstate Highway system, he did not mandate special travel lanes for trucks or limousines; all traffic uses the same routes.

    Every one of these historical innovations lifted up the poor, the middle class, and the rich. As a result, we became the world's most respected democracy, and the model for many other, newer countries to emulate.

    Now, the FCC would like to change all that history and allow those who can afford to pay for a "special lane" on the Internet, crowding out other traffic, and making it slower. It will reward the oligarchs and penalize the common citizen.

    I have been in the computer and electronics industry, from bench technician to CEO, since 1957. Now retired, I have watched as the very rich people, and the very large corporations have worked tirelessly in recent decades to destroy that equality of opportunity. If we are to survive as a nation, we must return to a democracy, with every citizen treated fairly and equitably.

    We should, instead, be requiring our "common carriers" to expand their Internet capacity, robustness and security for all. Where there is plenty of reliable capacity, everyone will have the opportunity to use the Internet without disadvantage. The large carriers, like Comcast (which the FCC has misclassified), AT&T, Verizon, et. al., have been intentionally restricting their expansion of the Internet to make it slower and slower. Yes, they save the investments they should be making. But, deeper and more cynically, they have been intending to leverage those self-imposed restrictions into higher prices for these restricted servicesby adding a special lane for those willing to pay.

    "Demos" is the Greek word for people; "kratia" is the Greek word for rule. Democracy puts the emphasis on people deciding how to rule. When appointed public officials usurp that decision-making to favor one class of people (or corporations) over another, it has violated basic democratic principles. The consequences will be uncomfortable for the citizens, and will erode our principles and the quality of our beloved nation.

    You are a public, appointed official. I trust you will decide on the basis of democracy that the rich deserve no more preferential treatment than the middle class or the poor. We need to expand our Internet capacity for all, not make it available only to the highest bidders, driving all prices upward for the benefit of the already-rich.

  10. Re:Problem 1 is to get people to pay attention by AK+Marc · · Score: 2

    I think that people have missed the obvious solution. Define "Internet service" as access to all sites on the Internet without restriction or prejudice. Then the FCC hands off "net neutrality" to the FTC for false advertising lawsuits for anyone that claims "Internet service" that delivers an AOL version of the world, with paid preference and hidden/slow access to the rest Internet.

    Of course that would fail when people sell "the world network" with disclaimers in the fine print. The US is broken that way. Many other places disallow fine print that contradicts the large print. "Free sandwiches on Tuesdays" (only applies to butter sandwiches, and must buy 6 regular priced sandwiches for each free one) would be illegal elsewhere, but is perfectly fine in the US. A reasonable person wouldn't conceive of such restrictions when seeing the big print. "Buy-6 get a free butter sandwich" would be the better large print. But no, in the US, we have given up consumer protection, and it's down to corporate protection.

  11. Don't forget this petition, its alot further along by sasparillascott · · Score: 2

    After signing that first one be sure and sign this one - its alot further along:

    https://petitions.whitehouse.g...

  12. Re:What we need is more of what ails us! by SuperKendall · · Score: 4, Insightful

    PROPER REGULATION!

    Oh I see, Proper Regulation is just like communism - it's just never been done right before!

    Never mind the FACT that you cannot have Proper Regulation, because anytime you centralize enough power to write said Regulation it will naturally become subverted, because Power has that effect - always.

    Just like people are calling for more regulation now and what they will get is anguish until they figure out the root cause of the pain was in fact regulation...

    --
    "There is more worth loving than we have strength to love." - Brian Jay Stanley
  13. Re:Here is something suitable by SuperKendall · · Score: 2

    This is exactly what Comcast wants to hear

    So is "Hey can we have the federal government please control the internet so Comcast doesn't have to deal with a bunch of local yahoos"?

    In fact we ALSO need local regulations creating the cable monopoly situation that keeps Comcast entrenched everywhere to vanish also.

    Your name, BTW, is just DRIPPING with irony in this situation as you apparently really, really love corruption as you are the biggest enabler of it I've ever come across.

    --
    "There is more worth loving than we have strength to love." - Brian Jay Stanley
  14. Re:Yes they do by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Insightful

    > You are REALLY going to see the screws put in over the next decade in most of Europe (probably not Germany).

    Been hearing that for the past four decades, myself. Still nada. In fact, even with the recent austerity measures, my health coverage and access to higher education well into the last quarter of my career is so much better than my US colleagues I can understand why you neocon nimrods are so desperate to try to discredit the European model.

    You're wrong. You've been wrong for 40 years. You'll continue to be wrong. You won't accept this because you are more obsessed with your religious adherence to an economic model instead of looking at the actual data.

  15. Re:"Congressmen"? Really? by pspahn · · Score: 2

    I am woperson, hear me roar!

    --
    Someone flopped a steamer in the gene pool.