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Finding the Next Generation of Teachers With "Innovative Microsoft Ads"

theodp (442580) writes "Back in 2011, the U.S. Dept. of Education delegated teacher recruitment to Microsoft (RFP, pdf). 'The decision to turn over TEACH to [Microsoft] Partners in Learning serves to expand the already outsized influence Gates and his fortune have on public education,' wrote the Washington Post at the time. So, 'what happens when a public institution in a democracy — the US Department of Education — outsources its goal of recruiting good teachers to a private industry?' Well, in addition to Teach.org and redundant social media efforts on Twitter, Facebook, Tumblr, Instagram, Linkedin, and YouTube, the U.S. is now relying on 'Innovative Microsoft Advertising to Recruit the next Generation of Teachers'. From the press release, 'The Ad Council and TEACH have formed a unique outreach campaign with Microsoft's Advertising team in an effort to recruit the next generation of teachers who will drive innovation and redefine teaching in K-12 classrooms. Microsoft donated over 125 million impressions across Xbox 360, Windows 8, and MSN in order to encourage consumers to rediscover teaching through interactive ad units. This media effort is an extension of the Ad Council and TEACH's public service advertising (PSA) campaign, Make More...Throughout March, consumers were able to engage with TEACH "NUads on Xbox", via gesture, voice or controller on their Xbox 360 consoles...Most recently, Microsoft leveraged their Windows 8 platform to provide a unique experience to consumers, enabling them to navigate through a series of questions to help "discover their true passion," along with the opportunity to play challenging mind and word games, such as a word scramble and tangrams.' Check out the demo of the Windows 8 platform experience [YouTube], in which a person is advised 'You'd Make a Great Science & Tech Teacher,' on the basis of a 'Personality Quiz' consisting of five dragged-and-dropped photos."

122 comments

  1. Gates wants your children by globaljustin · · Score: 4, Insightful

    M$ shouldn't be allowed anywhere **near** children.

    Gates is trying to end public education with his charter school fund.

    This stupid, reductive, publicity-focued initiative is just another in an expensive line of turds M$ has dropped in the education punch bowl

    Get these data-gathering, exploitative, anti-user businesses AWAY FROM OUR KIDS

    As a former teacher, the problem is that people want to spend money on ***EVERYTHING*** other than what will help educate children: public schools with the highest-paid, best trained teachers in the world

    Without the above, no ammount of tech, "social media" or "big data" will ever make even a dent in the problem

    --
    Thank you Dave Raggett
    1. Re:Gates wants your children by cascadingstylesheet · · Score: 0

      As a former teacher, the problem is that people want to spend money on ***EVERYTHING*** other than what will help educate children: public schools with the highest-paid, best trained teachers in the world

      How highly do you want them to be paid?

      The average teacher salary in Michigan, for example, is in the 60Ks, for nine months of work (and so really in the upper 80Ks adjusted for working nine months).

      Without the above, no ammount of tech, "social media" or "big data" will ever make even a dent in the problem

      Now tech not being a panacea and often being a waste, I agree with.

    2. Re:Gates wants your children by Jeremiah+Cornelius · · Score: 0

      From the pharaohs of ancient Egypt to the self-regarding thugs of ancient Rome to the glorified warlords of medieval and absolutist Europe, in nearly every urbanized society throughout human history, there have been people who have tried to constitute themselves as an aristocracy. These people and their allies are the conservatives.

      The tactics of conservatism vary widely by place and time. But the most central feature of conservatism is deference: a psychologically internalized attitude on the part of the common people that the aristocracy are better people than they are.

      http://slashdot.org/~Jeremiah+Cornelius/journal/747463

      --
      "Flyin' in just a sweet place,
      Never been known to fail..."
    3. Re:Gates wants your children by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 3, Informative

      Check your math, 60K for a teacher for 9 months work, means no money for 3 months.

    4. Re:Gates wants your children by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 4, Informative

      Most teachers spend the summer teaching summer school, or attending conferences or continuing education, a lot of summer related educational expenses are also unpaid. I know one or two teachers every year (our of the hundreds I deal with) that take a two+ month long holiday, but I'll be that those numbers are the same for most people in most industries, with the difference being that you can expense your educational conferences and continuing education in the non-public teaching realm.

      60k is good but not great and if you're intelligent enough to be able to teach my child, you're intelligent enough to know you can make more for less work in a field that doesn't subject you to abuse a good portion of the time.

    5. Re:Gates wants your children by stms · · Score: 2

      As a former teacher, the problem is that people want to spend money on ***EVERYTHING*** other than what will help educate children: public schools with the highest-paid, best trained teachers in the world

      That's good for the few who can afford the best trained teachers in the world. Good teacher are unfortunately an inherently limited resource. You're right that in the short term big data will probably not help our children to learn much. In the long term however I think that it can help students by understanding their needs better than their teachers ever could. Check out what CGP Grey has to say about this.

    6. Re:Gates wants your children by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Insightful

      You may want to watch the following video from an *actual* teacher...
          So You Want to be a Teacher? -- Time

      It is only one of his "So You Want to be a Teacher" videos that give an insider's perspective on the teaching profession for those of you who think teaching is a normal 8a-4p job, I have never heard of another job that requires so much mandatory, unpaid, extra-curricular work in my life.

      Just ask yourself if you would take this job for say... $60k/year.

    7. Re:Gates wants your children by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Informative

      Before I met my wife, a teacher, I might have assumed the same thing you did -- 9 months of pay, with 3 months vacation (actually it's only 2 plus a few extra days; school years usually start in late August here now). She works 3-4 hours, on average, extra each day -- getting up super-early to get supplies (she teaches TWO 'prep-heavy' classes -- horticulture and art, since no one wanted to teach hort and she had to revive the school's program single-handedly). It's like every class is a science lab. Then she stays late to do more prep that she won't be able to get to the next morning.. organizing field trips with reams of paperwork (at our school board the teachers have been getting more and more of the paperwork duties, admin used to do it but now the board is in full CYA-mode after some field trip incidents -- oh did I mention she had to get her school bus license since they cut all of the drivers?)

      She pays for snacks out of her (our) own pockets a few days each week, so the kids have something before lunch as many of them don't get a good breakfast -- they are impossible to teach otherwise. None of this gets her any overtime or time-in-lieu or counts against her yearly class budget. Honestly with all the extra time she pulls she has legitimately banked up that 2-month vacation.

      Teachers should indeed be paid well. Or, get many, many more teachers so the workload isn't a total burnout, and the teachers can work regular hours. Either way, more needs to be spent (in the RIGHT places, not administration or 'metrics' bullshit). If the paperwork, workload and class sizes were reduced, perhaps teachers could be you know, teachers.

      In Canada BTW.. I can't imagine how it must be in the US.

    8. Re:Gates wants your children by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Insightful

      How highly do you want them to be paid?

      The average teacher salary in Michigan, for example, is in the 60Ks, for nine months of work (and so really in the upper 80Ks adjusted for working nine months).

      Well; if you want to have decent people then the answer is much more than that. Currently the average IT person is probably earning about $100k. This is someone who can barely communicate and often doesn't have a higher degree. Certainly not someone who you would want in charge of the future of your country, educating it's children. Then let's take the hell which is being a teacher and having to deal with the demands of the various parents and the risks that some mad people are going to come around blaming you for leading the children into witchcraft. I certainly wouldn't teach in a high school for less than 50% extra on top of my normal salary. Let's say that we go for people who are more "service oriented" and actually like the idea. We still want to pay around $130k as a minimum.

      If you pay peanuts you will get monkeys. If you pay $60k you will get the current lot of whiners Simply put, the market says the minimum reasonable price for a teacher is at least double what it is currently.

    9. Re: Gates wants your children by loufoque · · Score: 1

      Meanwhile, in the real world, 50k is already a pretty good salary.

    10. Re:Gates wants your children by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      You mad bro?

    11. Re:Gates wants your children by davydagger · · Score: 0

      >As a former teacher, the problem is that people want to spend money on ***EVERYTHING*** other than what will help educate children: public schools with the highest-paid, best trained teachers in the world

      basicly as a former teacher, all a shit you care about is how much you get paid. See this is the fucking problem.

      The other problem is that entire debate about education revolves around how money is being spent and where.

      The biggest problem with our education system is the prussian style obediance training.

    12. Re:Gates wants your children by cascadingstylesheet · · Score: 1

      Ah, /. Where you get modded down for posting facts.

    13. Re:Gates wants your children by cascadingstylesheet · · Score: 1

      Mind you, that's three months in the summer ... plus two weeks for Christmas, one week for Spring Break, a four day weekend for "mid-Winter break", oh, and every other conceivable holiday, and some that aren't conceivable.

      My point was that they are well paid. They aren't underpaid. I posted facts - the actual average salary. That's a good salary for twelve months, let alone less than nine (counting all those breaks).

    14. Re:Gates wants your children by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      M$ shouldn't be allowed anywhere **near** children.

      Gates is trying to end public education with his charter school fund.

      This stupid, reductive, publicity-focued initiative is just another in an expensive line of turds M$ has dropped in the education punch bowl

      Get these data-gathering, exploitative, anti-user businesses AWAY FROM OUR KIDS

      As a former teacher, the problem is that people want to spend money on ***EVERYTHING*** other than what will help educate children: public schools with the highest-paid, best trained teachers in the world

      Without the above, no ammount of tech, "social media" or "big data" will ever make even a dent in the problem

      Naaah, no bias there.

      Gotta love those teacher's unions. It's all about stifling competition.

      "When schoolchildren start paying union dues, that’s when I’ll start representing the interests of school children."

      And screw the kids - teachers have to be the "highest paid" even when the public school system is abjectly failing them.

    15. Re:Gates wants your children by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Check your math, 1/3 of 9 months is 3. 1/3 of 60k is 20k, so they have the equilivent of a 80,000 a year job. Even 60,000 over 12 months is 5k a month and since you dont seem to know this, teachers usually spread out their checks over 12 months, so how about 5k a month for 3 months of no work? Not too aweful is it.

    16. Re:Gates wants your children by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      You must have married the 1 teacher I have not met. The ones I know, usually send their kids to the computer labs for busy work while they stay in their class and either work on their worthless online masters degree, or do their football brackets. I have worked in schools for 6 years and have yet to meet a single teacher who puts in 3-4 extra hours a day. As tech support, I get to see everything they are doing and can tell you without a doubt YOUTUBE and NETFLIX do the bulk of teaching now days.

    17. Re:Gates wants your children by Intrepid+imaginaut · · Score: 2

      You start running into the gold rush problem then. Pay too well for a job and you get people interested only in the pay, not doing the job well. This is especially true in jobs where it's difficult to measure performance.

      In any case the best teachers in the world are usually the child's parents. There's a direct correlation between how well kids do at school and how much time and effort their parents put into helping them at home, not to mention the general happiness and security of the home.

      If anything funding should go into making parents aware of this and giving them time off work for example to help their children succeed academically.

    18. Re:Gates wants your children by 93+Escort+Wagon · · Score: 1

      I have friends who are teachers - most summers they aren't doing anything education-related, since the CE requirement is on the order of once every 3-5 years.

      Some of them just take the summer off. One guy I know works construction in the summer.

      Decent teachers deserve to make decent pay; but at least in my state (Washington) they actually do make a good salary nowadays. The stories about poor starting salaries are from 20-30 years ago. However, like most of us, they still would like to be paid more than they currently make.

      --
      #DeleteChrome
    19. Re:Gates wants your children by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Sure, some states pay well for teachers. However, the national average is $53k and the average for my home state (NC) has finally increased to a whopping $45k. The 2013-14 salary schedule (PDF link below) indicates that entry level teachers (0-2 years of experience) are paid only $30,800/year. In the same state, CS graduates with no experience can expect to be hired by Cisco, Fidelity, IBM, and other local big companies for no less than $60,000/year. You'll note on the same salary schedule that after 36 years of teaching experience, a NC teacher with a Bachelor's degree would still be paid only $53,180 at today's rate.

      I absolutely agree that teachers are very well compensated in some states. However, it cannot be ignored that teachers are paid abysmal rates in some states. It irritates me to no end when I hear people in NC talk about how overpaid teachers are -- the same people are usually surprised to hear the reality of just how little NC teachers are actually paid.

      I don't know what the solution is, and I don't think the USDoE is in a position to talk about federalizing a nation-wise education system as a solution in its current form, but what we have today is terrible broken. The differences between states is rather astounding, and to use one state's context as a justification for sweeping nation-wide policy comments is disingenuous at best.

      As promised, the NC 2013-14 Salary Guide: http://www.ncpublicschools.org/docs/fbs/finance/salary/schedules/2013-14schedules.pdf

    20. Re:Gates wants your children by frisket · · Score: 4, Interesting
      I don't know what the fuck your teachers do during the "vacations" but in my country they do stuff like accompanying educational visits with their pupils, marking exams, preparing the next year's syllabus, getting up to date on their subject, doing all the paperwork they didn't have time to do in term-time, and — if they can afford it — actually having a vacation of their own.

      Maybe I'm wrong; maybe US teachers just sit on the porch and drink beer all vacation long. I doubt it. The violent jealousy you show toward their "3 months of no work" perhaps shows how little you know about the educational system. If you want to fix it, get your politicians to change the school system so that classes go on all year, just like regular work does.

    21. Re: Gates wants your children by frisket · · Score: 1

      BS. 50k isn't even peanuts.

    22. Re: Gates wants your children by lymond01 · · Score: 2

      Salary is very dependent on where you are. $60K for an entry level CS job was the going rate in Boston in 1993. In California near the Bay Area, high school teachers are paid in the $70k-$80K range for 9 months.

    23. Re: Gates wants your children by loufoque · · Score: 1

      50k is the median household income in the US.

    24. Re: Gates wants your children by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Jeez! please! i live in one of the most expensive areas: SoCal, yet i (barely) manage to pay mortgage, health and car insurance, car, etc, etc, with only $43k gross last year, and like any other American trucker we work in average 60-65 hrs a week
      (truckers don't have other federal protection labor laws because they said we are interstate workers :-(

    25. Re:Gates wants your children by HornWumpus · · Score: 1

      Cause subjects taught in K-12 change yearly. /sarc

      Preparing the syllabus is copying it. Tests are graded before grades are issued. Educational trips with students are paid.

      Teachers usually work a summer job. They are generally adequately paid. If they weren't, there would be a shortage. See economics 1.

      Science and math teachers are underpaid, but politically it is impossible to pay them fairly without overpaying the rest.

      --
      John McAfee 'It was like that time I hired that Bangkok prostitute; to do my taxes, while I fucked my accountant'
    26. Re:Gates wants your children by HornWumpus · · Score: 1

      There is no group in the world that bitches and complains as much as teachers. Take it with a huge grain of salt.

      --
      John McAfee 'It was like that time I hired that Bangkok prostitute; to do my taxes, while I fucked my accountant'
    27. Re:Gates wants your children by HornWumpus · · Score: 1

      Theoretically a great teacher is worth more. But to get their we would start by firing all the current teachers.

      You have to remember that teachers hold education degrees, not real ones. There are exceptions.

      --
      John McAfee 'It was like that time I hired that Bangkok prostitute; to do my taxes, while I fucked my accountant'
    28. Re:Gates wants your children by phantomfive · · Score: 1

      Get these data-gathering, exploitative, anti-user businesses AWAY FROM OUR KIDS As a former teacher, the problem is that people want to spend money on ***EVERYTHING*** other than what will help educate children: public schools with the highest-paid, best trained teachers in the world

      Wait, so as a former teacher, you don't want them to gather data that might discover the best teaching practices, and the only thing that could possibly work is to pay teachers as much as possible? Seriously?

      Not that you're biased or anything.

      --
      "First they came for the slanderers and i said nothing."
    29. Re:Gates wants your children by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      My mother was a teacher. She also banked the extra 3-4 hours of work.
      Her hours were pretty much 7-6. This isn't counting that she was expected
      to be at any extra activities her "kids" were participating in so it was
      common for her to be at some sort of recital, basketball game, etc... at the
      school several times a week. You teach because you love to teach and
      because you can afford to teach. 90% of the teachers I know are only
      teachers because their husband makes double or triple their salary in some
      other career outside of teaching. You meet very few male teachers and
      even fewer single parents who are teachers.

    30. Re: Gates wants your children by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      50k might be the median household income but it's sure not the median income of
      someone with a bachelors or masters degree gainfully employed in their chosen
      profession. Also, teachers salaries don't adjust to the real world. A computer
      teacher doesn't make any more than any other teacher so it's no wonder that it's
      hard to find a good computer teacher where at least there they can make double
      or more outside of teaching.

    31. Re:Gates wants your children by sootman · · Score: 2

      > The average teacher salary in Michigan, for example, is in the
      > 60Ks, for nine months of work (and so really in the upper 80Ks
      > adjusted for working nine months).

      Where did you get that number from? This page says it's only $35k for Michigan. Feel free to point me to a better source.

      And as for the old "summers off" bullshit, 1) teachers often go to conferences or work on their curriculum during the summer, or come in to do admin work (due to budgets always being cut) or move the library around etc., and 2) I've never met a teacher in my LIFE who worked just 8 hours per day. So yeah, multiply to account for 2 extra months off, and then divide to account for workdays that are typically 10-12 hours.

      As for "how highly do you want them to be paid"? Well, given what CEOs and anyone in the financial sector earns for continually robbing the country and fucking everything up; and given what we pay actors, entertainers, and fucking ATHLETES; and given what we're actually asking teachers to DO, I can't think of any reason that teachers should earn less than doctors.

      --
      Dear Slashdot: next time you want to mess with the site, add a rich-text editor for comments.
    32. Re:Gates wants your children by exomondo · · Score: 1

      As a former teacher, the problem is that people want to spend money on ***EVERYTHING*** other than what will help educate children: public schools with the highest-paid, best trained teachers in the world

      And exactly how much do teacher salaries have to be in order for them to properly educate children? I constantly see this crap bandied about that the only way to solve the issue of education is to throw money at the problem and pay teachers more...oddly enough this comes from teachers or former teachers or spouses of teachers. Throwing money at the problem is not the solution!

    33. Re:Gates wants your children by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      The vast majority of them do one of 2 things: (1) vacation (2) work a seasonal job. Your violent spewing (and projection, I might add) is all the worse because it comes from a position of pure ignorance.

    34. Re:Gates wants your children by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I keep hoping someone will dole out a subsidy to pay for the nails they go through putting themselves up on their crosses. On the other hand, they're pretty easy to keep happy with low salaries; you just have to repeatedly tell them how incredibly special they are, how they have the world's most important job, and that - gosh - if they didn't do this incredibly important and special job, no one else would, nor even *could*. Listening to them whine about their pay, etc. is pretty cheap.

    35. Re:Gates wants your children by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Currently the average IT person is probably earning about $100k. This is someone who can barely communicate and often doesn't have a higher degree.

      Currently the average AC is probably earning $12 billion. This is someone that doesn't have a name and can't even look up an actual number but, rather, just makes shit up as they go along. I mean, given that fact, teacher's should at least make $16 billion. amirite?!

    36. Re:Gates wants your children by Uberbah · · Score: 2

      Throwing money at the problem is not the solution!

      Neither is repeating a talking point that was baseless 30 years ago.

      And exactly how much do teacher salaries have to be in order for them to properly educate children?

      How much would you want to be paid to have a teachers job? Tens of thousands in student loans to get a masters degree, 50+ hour work weeks, playing babysitter/parent/disciplinarian/counselor/doctor for a bunch of kids before even starting the teaching part, putting up with shitty parents and administrators, spend your summers continuing your education, and finally be judged on student performance when the #1 correlation for that is what kind of home the student goes home to at the end of the day. Something you have no control over whatsoever.

      Not one of you snobby snots would take a teaching job for less than six figures.

    37. Re:Gates wants your children by Uberbah · · Score: 1

      You start running into the gold rush problem then. Pay too well for a job and you get people interested only in the pay, not doing the job well. This is especially true in jobs where it's difficult to measure performance.

      That's the most imaginative reason I've heard of yet for continuing crappy teacher pay. But that must extend to other professions, no? Better cut the salaries of software engineers to $35k a year, stat, before the greedy people hear about it!

    38. Re:Gates wants your children by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Oh, there are definitely good and bad teachers; in fact she finds she can't stand some at her school. They seem to linger in the staff room during their supposed preptime while she's running around prepping.

      And she considers putting in a video a cop-out unless it's strictly class-related and a quiz/exercise can be made out of it. That's why she works so hard on lesson planning. It takes a *lot* of work to keep a classfull of kids engaged and focused day in, day out.

      Just like any career, you'll find slackers and hard workers. Doesn't mean the good ones shouldn't be paid well; it means the slackers need to be found and weeded out. Teachers' unions are a love-hate thing, on the one hand, they're needed to keep the school board and provincial government from just running roughshod over teachers; on the other hand, they make it really hard to cut out the dead wood.

    39. Re:Gates wants your children by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Pay too well for a job and you get people interested only in the pay, not doing the job well. This is especially true in jobs where it's difficult to measure performance.

      Hmm, sounds like most CEOs and school board presidents :)

    40. Re:Gates wants your children by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      MORE teachers, meaning smaller teacher/student ratios -- and less paperwork -- would be the best way to spend extra money on education. Where I live the last time the school board went up against teachers, the teachers specifically said it was NOT about more money -- they wanted smaller classes, more teaching assistants, and less BS paperwork. The burnout problem is huge in teaching due to excessive workload and stress. No amount of pay will make that go away, but better staffing and less micromanagement will.

    41. Re:Gates wants your children by exomondo · · Score: 1

      How much would you want to be paid to have a teachers job?

      That's just throwing the question back because you can't answer it. The suggestion was that the answer is to increase teacher salaries so naturally I'm asking how much they need to be at for the education system to be fixed.

      Tens of thousands in student loans to get a masters degree, 50+ hour work weeks, playing babysitter/parent/disciplinarian/counselor/doctor for a bunch of kids before even starting the teaching part, putting up with shitty parents and administrators, spend your summers continuing your education, and finally be judged on student performance when the #1 correlation for that is what kind of home the student goes home to at the end of the day.

      Yes all jobs have shitty aspects to them, some more than others so obviously those that don't make up for it in some way (and no, not everybody's job satisfaction is rooted in their salary) will have fewer people willing to work in them. Effectively what you're saying is the system is fine but it's the teachers that are the problem and need to be replaced so increasing the salary will bring competent teachers to replace existing ones.

      Not one of you snobby snots would take a teaching job for less than six figures.

      Not one of who?

    42. Re:Gates wants your children by exomondo · · Score: 1

      Now that makes sense! Job satisfaction isn't all about how much money you make (well for some people it is I suppose) so funding that rather than this "highest paid teachers" idea makes a lot more sense.

    43. Re:Gates wants your children by Locando · · Score: 0

      No, that's what would make sense as a current teacher. As a former teacher, he's got perspective without conflict of interest. As a former teacher myself, I can tell you there's a lot of spending on useless shit. Where's your perspective coming from? (And I say this as someone who agrees with everything else you said!)

    44. Re:Gates wants your children by Locando · · Score: 1

      To you and the GP: don't know about other states, but in California it's just a hair over two months off during the summer, not three. (There are of course winter and spring breaks as well.) It's very common for teachers to have their paychecks spread out across 12 months rather than 10, but it's the individual's choice how to do it.

      Also: when you see the averages, take into account that they include both teachers a year before retirement and those fresh out of college. From what I've seen, the pay is usually quite all right when you start off, especially if you enter with a master's (not uncommon these days), but the raises are laughable. When you consider that high school teachers effectively work at least 50 hours a week (unless they've been teaching the same subject for at least ten years or so), pulling in $50k/year or less gets old pretty fast, especially if you're living in an area with a high COL that leads to much higher private sector salaries for the highly educated. Doubly so if you're teaching at a crappy, dangerous school in the ghetto or its suburban equivalent, which is where the vast majority of job openings are in said areas. Stress in the tech sector simply cannot compare. Two months off seems like the only humane option come June when that's the case.

      (Smaller cities and rural areas are a whole 'nother kettle of fish, I know. But I don't think I hear as much complaining about teacher salaries in those parts, at least not in states where teachers are unionized.)

    45. Re:Gates wants your children by Uberbah · · Score: 1

      That's just throwing the question back because you can't answer it.

      That's you projecting because your stance is unjustifiable. This isn't hard: attracting top talent requires good pay, same as any other profession, and students perform better with smaller class sizes and more teacher-hours per pupil, instead of more pupils per teacher. Which requires....wait for it...more money than skinflint social darwinists have been willing to spend.

      tl;dr you get what you pay for

      Yes all jobs have shitty aspects to them

      Yes and again, you wouldn't touch this shitty job unless it paid six figures.

    46. Re: Gates wants your children by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      http://nces.ed.gov/fastfacts/display.asp?id=77

      In 2011, median is 37K, with a Bachlors the median rose to 50K.

      The national average (mean) is also 50K.

      But, don't let the facts get in the way of narrative.

    47. Re:Gates wants your children by cascadingstylesheet · · Score: 1

      Hmm. Well, somebody sounds violent here, but it ain't me ...

      I'm making a reasonable mathematical adjustment to their already nice (though not as nice as mine, if you must make this personal; I wasn't) salary. That's all.

      You can doubt it all you want, but the only summer school I've ever seen around here (major metropolitan area) is maybe two or three weeks, a joke. Maybe one or two teachers stick around even for that. Better not forget anything in the building, because you'll be very lucky even to get a maintenance person to let you in during the summer.

      Sure, maybe they all go work in a secret school district coal mine in the summer, hitting the books between shovels full ... in fantasy land.

    48. Re:Gates wants your children by exomondo · · Score: 1

      That's you projecting because your stance is unjustifiable.

      Wrong, I'm not projecting anything and I don't know what you think my "stance" is.

      This isn't hard: attracting top talent requires good pay, same as any other profession

      So the problem is the teachers, not the system.

      and students perform better with smaller class sizes and more teacher-hours per pupil, instead of more pupils per teacher. Which requires....wait for it...more money than skinflint social darwinists have been willing to spend.

      Yeah it's totally not like they spend over a trillion dollars on education per year...but you just blame the teachers while demanding they be given more money rather than considering that perhaps there is a lot of mismanagement going on.

      Yes and again, you wouldn't touch this shitty job unless it paid six figures.

      Wrong, unlike you I'm not totally driven by money. But obviously that's what you are totally consumed by which is why the only way you can come up with to fix things is to give more money to the teachers which you have already suggested are the problem anyway.

    49. Re:Gates wants your children by DocHoncho · · Score: 1

      The real question would be what kind of transparency is there about this data? What are they collecting, exactly, and what do they do with it? I can't think of anything Madison Avenue, or wherever the marketing firms lurk around in, would love more than a huge trove of child behavioral data, especially if there's even a hint of it being personally identifiable.

      Much data is likely already gathered by the government run schools, but the constant push to completely privatize schools raises the same issues as other large corporate databases, specifically the ability of those private schools to monetize that data to pad the bottom line.

      --
      Celebrity worship is a poor substitute for Deity worship and costs more to boot.
    50. Re:Gates wants your children by colinrichardday · · Score: 1

      Maybe your acquaintances are the exceptions.

    51. Re:Gates wants your children by colinrichardday · · Score: 1

      But to get their we would start by firing all the current teachers.

      To get their what?

    52. Re:Gates wants your children by colinrichardday · · Score: 1

      Pay too well for a job and you get people interested only in the pay, not doing the job well.

      Do you include CEOs?

    53. Re:Gates wants your children by phantomfive · · Score: 1

      Why don't you go find out instead of speculating? Your post is essentially useless because it lacks information you could go gather if you weren't a sucky, lazy bum.

      --
      "First they came for the slanderers and i said nothing."
    54. Re:Gates wants your children by Intrepid+imaginaut · · Score: 1

      CEOs often get paid largely in stock options rather than cash, and so are incentivised to make sure the company does well in the short term at least. Which leads to its own set of problems, but the headline grabbing corporate salaries are often not what they seem.

    55. Re:Gates wants your children by davydagger · · Score: 1

      >Where's your perspective coming from

      citizen of a suposed free democracy.

  2. what MS/Apple/etc want to teach, vs what we should by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 4, Insightful

    MS, Apple, Facebook, etc: "Buy from our stores! Don't mind being locked in! Don't dare to want freedom and openness, it's scary and not good for you!"

    They all want to teach kids to grow up to be good little consumers. Spending all their money at the locked-in store. Giving all their personal information to the company. Develop an app of your own? Too bad unless you want to give 30% to Apple and be under their control for whether you can even publish it or not.

    Why can't we just teach openness, freedom, and having control over your own computing experience? A TRUE social internet, not the data-mined and controlled garden those companies all want us to have, so people get locked into their marketing and advertising engines, and their ecosystems.

  3. Apparently Bill Gates wants to make money. by Futurepower(R) · · Score: 5, Interesting

    Apparently Bill Gates is still doing things to make money. When you have $70 billion, you still need more?

    1. Re:Apparently Bill Gates wants to make money. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Apparently Bill Gates is still doing things to make money.

      Good for him! I am sure that the "Bill and Melinda Gates Foundation" can use more money.

      When you have $70 billion, you still need more?

      Yes... why not; I am sure that the "Bill and Melinda Gates Foundation" can use more money.

    2. Re:Apparently Bill Gates wants to make money. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      When one becomes this rich, it isn't about money any more; it's about power and influence and 'legacy'. He's getting old, and wants to make sure lots and lots of buildings are named after him. Hoping everyone will forget the 'early years' where he f*cked over the emerging tech industry and set back OS design for a decade or two, killed off better competing software suites, etc.

    3. Re:Apparently Bill Gates wants to make money. by plopez · · Score: 1

      The percentage of income the wealthy give to charity is miniscule compared to the middle class.
      http://www.cnbc.com/id/4872514...

      --
      putting the 'B' in LGBTQ+
    4. Re:Apparently Bill Gates wants to make money. by houghi · · Score: 1

      For the super rich, money isn't something you use to buy food, chelter or the like. It is merely an indicator if you are doing well. If you have more then yesterday, it was good. If it is less then yesterday, you are doing something wrong.

      It is like points in a computergame. You don't stop playing when you have the highest score. You try to be even better then you already were and get even more points.

      --
      Don't fight for your country, if your country does not fight for you.
  4. How about by rsilvergun · · Score: 3, Informative

    finding the Next Generation of Teachers with more financial ad programs, better wages and an actual career path? Seriously, I know a lots of teachers and unless you're willing to drop what you're doing and hall ass to another state whenever the budget cuts come you're in for a pretty lousy time. Oh, and no, they don't take summers off. Most of them spend summers either tutoring for extra money or getting yet another degree (Masters, Doctorate) in a desperate attempt to earn a little more money :(.

    --
    Hi! I make Firefox Plug-ins. Check 'em out @ https://addons.mozilla.org/en-US/firefox/addon/youtube-mp3-podcaster/
    1. Re:How about by Nidi62 · · Score: 1

      Oh, and no, they don't take summers off. Most of them spend summers either tutoring for extra money or getting yet another degree (Masters, Doctorate) in a desperate attempt to earn a little more money :(.

      I work for a major airline, and a lot of our seasonal summer help (working 40hours/week all summer) are actualy teachers looking to make some extra money. Can make over $4k and you get flying benefits for the year.

      --
      The only thing necessary for evil to triumph is for it to be pitted against a slightly greater evil
    2. Re:How about by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      This right here. My wife is a teacher and she used to work a 2nd job at a clothing store over the summer. She quit when she had our son and she watches him while I'm at work. I don't get why teacher pay is such a huge issue, but it's totally ok to spend hundreds of billions of dollars on a fighter jet that still doesn't work right.

    3. Re:How about by plopez · · Score: 1

      Some of my HS teachers worked construction over the summer.

      --
      putting the 'B' in LGBTQ+
    4. Re:How about by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      So your saying they make good money for 9 months and then are free to try to make even more over 1/4 of the year? Having worked as a tech coordinator for almost 6 years in school districts, I can tell you that youtube and netflix do the bulk of teaching now while the teachers work on their online masters degrees that do nothing to help the class but bump the teacher over a lane on the payscale.

      Over 1/3 of our high school takes all online classes now because of how useless they feel being in a classroom is to them.

    5. Re:How about by Ultracrepidarian · · Score: 1

      Perhaps you have put your finger on the problem.

    6. Re:How about by phantomfive · · Score: 1

      finding the Next Generation of Teachers with more financial ad programs, better wages and an actual career path?

      Out of curiosity, what kind of career path do you have in mind?

      --
      "First they came for the slanderers and i said nothing."
  5. TEACH "NUads on Xbox", by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    DAE read that as "Nudes on Xbox"?

  6. Is the US becoming a corporatocracy? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Microsoft in education...
    Cable company lobbyists in the FCC...
    The whole concept of lobbying (AKA "legal bribes")...
    Mandatory private health insurance instead of what every other modern country does...

    1. Re:Is the US becoming a corporatocracy? by Stormwatch · · Score: 1

      >becoming
      >implying it isn't already

  7. Re:what MS/Apple/etc want to teach, vs what we sho by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    +1
    agreed.

  8. whatever they're doing..isn't working by kcmastrpc · · Score: 1

    my wife is enrolled in one of the top four colleges known for their educational programs and is currently the top of her class (4.0gpa). she has yet to be contacted by any type of recruiter or school district, and it looks like she's going to have to work for a semester for free before she can get her license (teacher certification).

    1. Re:whatever they're doing..isn't working by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      A lot of it depends on what state she's looking in and what grade level she wants to teach. If she's trying to do 1st to 5th she may have a very hard time (everybody likes the little kids, and you don't need a great deal of content knowledge). If she's willing and qualified to do middle school math or science, I can get her an interview tomorrow (she'd have to move to Arizona though).

    2. Re:whatever they're doing..isn't working by kcmastrpc · · Score: 1

      she's been studying for middle school (5th through 8th, i think). we like where we're at though, (nashville, tn).

    3. Re:whatever they're doing..isn't working by Ultracrepidarian · · Score: 1

      I think those first years are the most critical. A couple good teachers at the start can immunize your kids against several turkeys down the road.

    4. Re:whatever they're doing..isn't working by HornWumpus · · Score: 1

      Where I went to school the average GPA in education was a 3.85. They also had the lowest average SAT/ACT and HS GPAs of any school.

      Take the 4.0 in education with a big old grain of salt. I knew one who drank to falling every night and carried a 4.0.

      --
      John McAfee 'It was like that time I hired that Bangkok prostitute; to do my taxes, while I fucked my accountant'
    5. Re:whatever they're doing..isn't working by drinkypoo · · Score: 1

      I think those first years are the most critical. A couple good teachers at the start can immunize your kids against several turkeys down the road.

      I think they're all critical. Without some good teachers in high school I might not be here today at all. Too bad nearly all the ones I had in my first high school (Harbor, in Santa Cruz) were shitheels or useless. Either they contributed to bullying or did nothing about it, which is itself a kind of contribution.

      --
      "You're right," Fisheye says. "I should have set it on 'whip' or 'chop.'"
  9. Linux and Apple users need not apply by RotateLeftByte · · Score: 4, Interesting

    Isn't that the obvious ploy of this move.

    Embrace the education establishment
    Extend the curriculuim so that ONLY MS tools can be used
    Extinguish all non compliant teachers as being obsolete

    --
    I'd rather be riding my '63 Triumph T120.
  10. Barriers to teaching by trinaryai · · Score: 1, Interesting

    As someone who has spent his career in IT, and actually acquired a Master's Degree in Education while working IT full time, I can give a couple things that have kept me from completing the transition. The biggest, number one reason is student teaching. While I qualify to become a teacher in every way, it is impossible for me to enter a classroom in that role unless I completely give up all working for four months. I've done pretty good putting money away for emergencies; but the return on investment simply isn't there to give up an income for four months. A few places offer in-service student teaching, but the list of qualifications for those programs is very long, targeting a very specific subset of the population. One of the reasons there is such a barrier to becoming a teacher is the teacher's union. There may be some states where it's different, but the ones I know about force all registered teachers to pay dues to the union whether they want to join or not. Because education is compulsory, all taxpayers are held hostage by the union's demands. There is no option to lock out the union, no option to balance negotiations. Hiring decisions, training decisions, and certification requirements are all heavily influenced, if not completely determined, by the union. The existing status quo cannot change until either the attitude of the union changes, or the law changes to weaken the union's power.

    1. Re:Barriers to teaching by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I agree with you on just about everything you say. I work as a tech coordinator for multiple school districts and it is a major headache and roadblock to deal with teachers who just cant get it into their head that they are an employee, not the boss. I now have to meet with some self appointed "important people" who are teachers who are trying to decide what the staff and students should get for all of their technology. From ipads to chromebooks to laptops to who gets a new desktop and who just has to have a laptop. It is a joke. All I see are the good students going in mass to online courses. I have seen a dozen times how the teachers "JUST HAVE TO HAVE" fill in the blank and then after the tens to hundreds of thousands of tax payer dollars are spent that tech goes to the wayside. Usually with an excuse of "administration didnt give us the proper training". I never understood how someone can think how great a piece of equipment is and how they can claim to need it when they dont even know how to use it.

  11. Show me the money by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Anyone who would "Make a great Science & Tech teacher" can make twice as much in the private sector. I could teach any high school math or science class but I'm not taking a 70% pay cut to do it.

    Once upon a time most professional careers were closed to women. This left a large number of bright young women who were willing to teach for relatively low wages. Now those bright young women are becoming physicians and attorneys and engineers and earning three to ten times a teacher's wage. But we haven't increased teaching salaries to match, so mostly the profession is mostly attracting mediocre students. Yes, there are still a few great people who love to teach and are willing to put up with public school politics and relatively low wages, and I salute them. But if we want to attract the best and brightest to teaching, we have to pay teachers like they are the best and brightest. It's not a money problem. There are 3.7 million public school teachers. We could give them all a $40K raise for $160B/year. That's maybe a tenth of the US defense budget. We just need to get our priorities straight.

  12. kids suck by steak · · Score: 1

    the ability to put up other people's worthless ass kids is a calling and if it's not your calling you're going to do a shit job and the kids will continue to be worthless. there, their, and they're!

  13. order of magnitude more by globaljustin · · Score: 4, Insightful

    How highly do you want them to be paid?

    you're splitting pennies for one of the essential functions of human existence: teachers to our young...

    however we just pass MILLIONS$$$ and BILLIONS$$$ around when discussing business executive pay or defense contracts

    it's absolutely ridiculous, from a free market capitalist perspective, to expect to get the best people for a fraction of what they typically can earn in other fields

    --
    Thank you Dave Raggett
    1. Re:order of magnitude more by exomondo · · Score: 1

      you're splitting pennies for one of the essential functions of human existence: teachers to our young...

      however we just pass MILLIONS$$$ and BILLIONS$$$ around when discussing business executive pay or defense contracts

      Nobody is "splitting pennies", you think they should be paid more so he's asking how much they should be paid, very simple. And you can stop crying poor in comparison to defense spending, the US spends more on Education annually than it does on defense, in excess of $1 trillion in fact.

    2. Re:order of magnitude more by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Stop muddying this pity party with facts, you jerk!

    3. Re:order of magnitude more by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      it's absolutely ridiculous, from a free market capitalist perspective, to expect to get the best people for a fraction of what they typically can earn in other fields

      Quite the opposite.

      The free market capitalist perspective is that the best people already got theirs, and you and yours can eat shit and die.

      Theirs will be taught by the best people. You and yours can pay for it yourself, if you are so goddamned bright you'd already have enough money.

      however we just pass MILLIONS$$$ and BILLIONS$$$ around when discussing business executive pay or defense contracts

      The best deserve the best. The system is working as designed. Have a nice day!

    4. Re:order of magnitude more by rtb61 · · Score: 1

      Well that is down to stupid management practices much like the US's dysfunctional law enforcement. Instead of managing these once at state level, with Federal funding simply going direct to the state to distribute. You have this idiotic broken up model, with management repeated again and again and again and well, hundreds even thousands of times at county level, with those same management costs spent, again and again and again. Want to fix it, start taking more stuff out of the counties hand and pushing it up to state level management. Stop the high cost of distributing Federal funds to each county, thousands upon thousands, with all the monitoring and auditing that is required and repeated yet again by state's with state funding and simply pass federal funds to 50 state departments of education which then manage all public schools in the state. Private schools should not receive funds as, they are private and exclusionary, for them to accept government funds, they should be forced to accept all students within their catchment area and should not be able to exclude any ie take public funds then you are required to be accessible by all of the public, want to be private and exclude students by reason of IQ, race, religion, or bank balance of the parents than be private and fully privately funded.

      --
      Chaos - everything, everywhere, everywhen
    5. Re:order of magnitude more by globaljustin · · Score: 1

      the answer is (still) in the subject line:

      "order of magnitude more"

      do you know what "order of magnitude" means?

      just in case: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/O...

      --
      Thank you Dave Raggett
    6. Re:order of magnitude more by cascadingstylesheet · · Score: 1

      you're splitting pennies for one of the essential functions of human existence: teachers to our young...

      Huh, I am? I don't run a school district or levy taxes.

      Growing and selling food are essential to human existence too, and not everyone who works in that field makes upper 80K/year. So are driving ambulances, being a police officer, and countless other occupations. We don't pay all of them based on emotional outbursts either (well, not consistently - sometimes we try for awhile, until the city goes bankrupt).

    7. Re:order of magnitude more by exomondo · · Score: 1

      the answer is (still) in the subject line:

      "order of magnitude more"

      And how exactly will that help? Is it that all existing teachers are just bad at their job and need to be replaced with competent ones? Is money the only driver here?

    8. Re:order of magnitude more by globaljustin · · Score: 1

      i already addressed this...

      it's absolutely ridiculous, from a free market capitalist perspective, to expect to get the best people for a fraction of what they typically can earn in other fields

      you pay teachers more for the same reason you pay NBA players or Goldman-Sachs VP's...you fsking moron...this is the end of this conversation...I've proven you wrong

      --
      Thank you Dave Raggett
    9. Re:order of magnitude more by exomondo · · Score: 1

      i already addressed this...

      it's absolutely ridiculous, from a free market capitalist perspective, to expect to get the best people for a fraction of what they typically can earn in other fields

      you pay teachers more for the same reason you pay NBA players or Goldman-Sachs VP's...you fsking moron...this is the end of this conversation...I've proven you wrong

      Bullshit, you demonstrate your utter ignorance by suggesting the only way to get better people is to increase wages, this is patently false you braindead imbecile, obviously you have no experience in the realworld so your suggestion that this conversation is over and that you fuck off is a pretty good idea. Improving wages will not necessarily result in getting better teachers just as corporate VPs with larger salaries aren't necessarily any better than those with lower salaries, but of course you think the higher paid somebody is the better they are at their job.

      Improving working conditions and reducing work load so that teachers are not so over-worked will have an impact, not increasing wages, overworked teachers with higher salaries is not going to improve the education system one bit, but obviously you think everything is driven by the dollar and simply giving more money will result in a better system.

    10. Re:order of magnitude more by cascadingstylesheet · · Score: 1

      the answer is (still) in the subject line:

      "order of magnitude more"

      do you know what "order of magnitude" means?

      just in case: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/O...

      Why stop there? Why not some sort of asymptotic curve, since money is apparently no object in your unicorn land?

  14. Want A Job? Buy an XBox by Bob9113 · · Score: 3

    Microsoft donated over 125 million impressions across Xbox 360, Windows 8, and MSN in order to encourage consumers to rediscover teaching through interactive ad units. This media effort is an extension of the Ad Council and TEACH's public service advertising (PSA) campaign, Make More...Throughout March, consumers were able to engage with TEACH "NUads on Xbox", via gesture, voice or controller on their Xbox 360 consoles.

    Masters in education, good experience in other districts, just moved to the area, you may be a good candidate. Now, if you really want the job, go out and buy some Microsoft products, and then we'll give you a shot. You should also probably make sure you have created a rich and carefully crafted demographic footprint on each of the incumbent cloud surveillance networks:

    Well, in addition to Teach.org and redundant social media efforts on Twitter, Facebook, Tumblr, Instagram, Linkedin, and YouTube,

    Prostrate yourself before the oligarchy or be unemployed! Our nation cannot afford to have teachers who have any awareness of the value of attenuating corporate rule or pervasive surveillance! Young minds must be formed only by those who do not question the oligarchs!

  15. Sounds like MS is trying to get government money by Karmashock · · Score: 4, Insightful

    Who is going to pay for all this crap? Remember, LA Unified school district just shelled out something like a billion dollars for ipads. So there is big money to be made here.

    The danger for the public is that it might not accomplish anything.

    If all the promises of the technology pan out then its money well spent. If not, then its an unforgivable waste of finite public resources.

    --
    I've decided to stop wasting my time responding to AC trolls/sockpuppets... so if you want a response from me... login.
  16. So You Want to be a Teacher... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

    So You Want to be a Teacher? -- Time

    Just one in a series of videos about the realities of the teaching profession.

  17. I think schools like this one should be nominated by bobstreo · · Score: 3, Informative
  18. With joy in our hearts! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    As much fun as listening to the motivational bullhorns and louspeakers on some Norh-Korean style dictatorship. Primitive, totalitarian, imposing, ... well, that's all out 'marketing' brainwashing. Turn off the cellphones, find a place without mikes, cameras, satellites, or bugs - and ask any geezer who had go through that style of prison-camp 'society'.

  19. Welcome Oligarchs! by mspohr · · Score: 1

    This is just another instance of oligarchs taking over government functions "because they know better". There is also more profit in it.
    The oligarchs and their Republican enablers have been transferring public assets and functions to the private sector for years and the result is fewer public resources and higher costs for everyone.
    All hail the Oligarchs! Capitalism triumphs!

    --
    I don't read your sig. Why are you reading mine?
    1. Re:Welcome Oligarchs! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      This is just another instance of oligarchs taking over government functions "because they know better". There is also more profit in it.
      The oligarchs and their Republican enablers have been transferring public assets and functions to the private sector for years and the result is fewer public resources and higher costs for everyone.

      I, for one, welcome our new jack-booted oligarchic overlords.

      All hail the Oligarchs! Capitalism triumphs!

      All hail, indeed!

    2. Re:Welcome Oligarchs! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      so are you doing anything about it or just whining? i'm serious, i see a lot of rants on /. but most of the time they are posted by lazy complainers who dont even feel strongly enough about their supposed opinion to do anything about it.

  20. Donations linked to schemes to make money. by Futurepower(R) · · Score: 2

    You missed the point. Yes Mr. Gates gives money away, but he also links those donations to schemes to make more money, it seems obvious to me.

    1. Re:Donations linked to schemes to make money. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Hmm.. I guess WHO is missing the point..

      "Give money away" to earn money later on sound like "Investment" to me...

      So in reality he is not giving money away, but invest money in a "raw material" (children) that can be "transformed" (brainwashed to become an non-critical, no questions asking consumer), into a profitable product (minless buyer).

      Well - so much for being the "good guy"....

    2. Re:Donations linked to schemes to make money. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Yeah they spent billions of dollars eradicating the debilitating and deadly polio virus just so people would buy Windows PCs.

      If psuedo lock-in of weak-minded individuals who can't be bothered to switch from Windows to Mac or Linux and MS Office to Libre Office is the cost to eradicate diseases like polio then that's money well spent!

  21. public are utterly untrustworthy by johnwerneken · · Score: 0

    At least with business interest, chances are actual education is intended.

  22. Consumer education - snorting into my coffee :) by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    "Microsoft created probono interactive advertisements .. Microsoft leveraged their Windows 8 platform to provide a unique experience to consumer"

    Are you taking the piss, I can remember when slashdot was a real technology site ...

  23. Re:what MS/Apple/etc want to teach, vs what we sho by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Giving all their personal information to the company.

    All what personal information? The only thing Apple has that isn't publicly available for me is my credit card number. They dont have anything else I would care about.

    Develop an app of your own? Too bad unless you want to give 30% to Apple and be under their control for whether you can even publish it or not.

    Or just develop it for an open platform like HTML5 web app, Android, various Linux distros, OSX or Windows (yes even Windows, so long as it isnt a ModernUI app). Nobody says you need to develop for iOS, in fact it is the minority among those other players.

    Why can't we just teach openness, freedom, and having control over your own computing experience?

    Because 99% of people dont give a shit about that and dont want to deal with having to control their computing experience, it's just a tool to do a job and they dont want the added overhead of control and maintenance while anybody actually interested in that can certainly learn it on their own. People get indoctrinated into the incumbent way of doing things - such is the nature of it - and don't break out of that unless they have an interest in doing so. Suggesting everybody should have to do that just because you want them to is just demonstrating how out of touch you are.

    But you know what? The beauty is you could teach that if you really wanted to!

    A TRUE social internet, not the data-mined and controlled garden those companies all want us to have, so people get locked into their marketing and advertising engines, and their ecosystems.

    You can do that too. You dont need to utilize corporate ad networks, you dont need to mine your visitors' data and you dont have to visit websites that do that especially given the proliferation of various ad blockers and the ease of use of HOSTS files, yet another place that even Apple and Microsoft (on their desktop platforms) provide you the ability to control your computing but is rarely used by many people in practice. You could even create and host your own site that does not do these things and monetize it with a payment gateway if you must.

    Some of the Free Software community do (and do well) but those who can't do, complain. And they complain loudly about any sort of corporate competition to their interests, it isnt enough to "build it and they will come", you need to build something good and really get it out there.

  24. Nice by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Very bad idea to let private corporation mess with recruitment of teachers. Specially corporation that is known to have monopoly and will to abuse its position to stiff innovation and prevent competition by breaking standards.,,

    Do we really want corporations thats main goal is increase profits to choose who gets to teach new generation of people. People that oneday need to solve problems we have created today...

  25. Re:I think schools like this one should be nominat by rrohbeck · · Score: 1

    Oh no! Neither MS nor Apple? What has the world come to? How are the students going to be good software consumers? They might even begin to write their own programs! Heavens, they'll al become evil hackers!

  26. Pay highly effective teachers more by jacksdl · · Score: 1

    My wife has been teaching for 32 years in downstate Illinois. One of two National Board Certified teachers in the district (meaning she meets the "Highly Qualified" standards for NCLB). She just past the $60K threshold last year (although with the supplies she buys it is still below that). We recently increased her monthly Salliemae payments so they will be paid off by retirement.

    Research shows that highly effective teachers (teachers whose students regularly make more than 1 year of academic progress per school year) make a large and lasting difference in outcomes. More so than technology.

    So identifying, rewarding and developing highly effective teachers should be a national priority. The economics of moving the median up for students would mean a huge gain for the economy.

    As for Gates influencing our national education policy with his wealth, it shouldn't be possible. He can contribute to the discussion and do Foundation research, but that effort should be swamped by the dollars and attention the subject of education reform is getting. If he has too much influence, it just shows he is focusing on education while most of the rest of us aren't.

  27. Need Security, Not Marketing by eepok · · Score: 1

    There are plenty of people who have just graduated high school who want to be teachers. There are plenty of people in college whose collegiate experiences inspire them to teach. The problem isn't finding teachers (or good teachers for that matter), but making sure they don't get lost in the complicated morass of certification, continuing education, and the bureaucracy of tenure. They also are, typically, willing to accept the likelihood of lower wages, but need to have proper support, small classes, and the guarantee of an good benefits and retirement plan.

    Pay now or pay later. But you have to pay.

  28. increase wages AND reduce work load by globaljustin · · Score: 1

    you can do **all of those things** you moron

    1. raise salary
    2. reduce workload

    I ADVOCATE FOR BOTH

    you're using teacher's own idealism to **justify paying them less**...it's bullshit and it's ruining education

    you can pay more AND reduce workload!

    --
    Thank you Dave Raggett
    1. Re:increase wages AND reduce work load by exomondo · · Score: 1

      Raising salaries won't do anything because the teachers are not the problem, the workload and class sizes are the problem.

  29. DO BOTH by globaljustin · · Score: 1

    you can still do both increase pay dramatically AND reduce workload & class size

    and you can cover your ears and say "la la la" all day, but **paying teachers what they deserve** (an order of magnitude more) is the way our economy has always shown the value of a position

    simple/complex is different than easy/difficult

    the solution to our education woes is simple...but that doesn't mean it is easy! first we have to shut down morons like you forever!

    stop denying teachers the pay they deserve in the name of doing *other* things they *also* deserve

    WE...CAN...DO....BOTH

    --
    Thank you Dave Raggett
    1. Re:DO BOTH by exomondo · · Score: 1

      You say the existing teachers deserve it (I'm not disputing that, though I think 600,000-800,000 is a bit hefty) but why would they do any better job just because you pay them more? Do you do your job to a capacity determined by your salary? Do you do a better job if you get a payrise? Or do you just do a crappy job until somebody gives you more money?

      Increasing salaries will only work to attract talent if existing teachers are all just doing a shitty job, but reducing class sizes and workload increases the appeal of the job and increases job satisfaction so funding more positions rather than fewer positions more highly is obviously the preferable route. If we could give everybody an order of magnitude pay rise that would be nice but you know that's idiocy, nurses, paramedics, taxi drivers, garbage men, etc... have to deal with a lot of shit and aren't very highly paid at all. But I guess you have an interest in teachers having higher pay and don't care about anybody else or where that money should come from.

  30. Hooray for the money tree... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    ...which you have presumably invented to be able to give all these people an order of magnitude increase in salary and also to be able to fund thousands of more positions for teachers. how much might this cost do you think and where should that money come from? while we are at it with pie-in-the-sky spending why not give *everyone* an order of magnitude increase in their salary?

  31. tax magic unicorn reality 1950 by globaljustin · · Score: 1

    have you looked at executive pay or defense contract figures?

    look at the tax rate on those executives...and on those military/industrial complex corps

    all we have to do is take tax rates back to 1950 levels

    it's a simple fix...not *easy*...it's difficult...simple but difficult...because of jerk-offs like you

    --
    Thank you Dave Raggett
  32. Rich Republicans bitch more by globaljustin · · Score: 1

    Rich Republicans are the bitchiest people in human history...

    they pay next to nothing in taxes and then yell and scream 'fraud!' at Pell grants or Medicare

    --
    Thank you Dave Raggett