Slashdot Mirror


Understanding the 2 Billion-Year-Old Natural Nuclear Reactor In W Africa

KentuckyFC (1144503) writes "In June 1972, nuclear scientists at the Pierrelatte uranium enrichment plant in south-east France noticed a strange deficit in the amount of uranium-235 they were processing. That's a serious problem in a uranium enrichment plant where every gram of fissionable material has to be carefully accounted for. The ensuing investigation found that the anomaly originated in the ore from the Oklo uranium mine in Gabon, which contained only 0.600% uranium-235 compared to 0.7202% for all other ore on the planet. It turned out that this ore was depleted because it had gone critical some 2 billion years earlier, creating a self-sustaining nuclear reaction that lasted for 300,000 years and using up the missing uranium-235 in the process. Since then, scientists have studied this natural reactor to better understand how buried nuclear waste spreads through the environment and also to discover whether the laws of physics that govern nuclear reactions may have changed in the 1.5 billion years since the reactor switched off. Now a review of the science that has come out of Oklo shows how important this work has become but also reveals that there is limited potential to gather more data. After an initial flurry of interest in Oklo, mining continued and the natural reactors--surely among the most extraordinary natural phenomena on the planet-- have all been mined out."

20 of 152 comments (clear)

  1. I don't know but there for Aliens. by Noishkel · · Score: 5, Funny

    Come on... who here doesn't think that this isn't the remains of a eons own star cruiser out there?

    Well okay, it probably isn't... but it would be cool if it was!

    1. Re:I don't know but there for Aliens. by KingOfBLASH · · Score: 2

      Were that true, there should be other evidence of the starship. Unless they were just disposing of spent fuel? Cool idea, right, since uranium is found naturally in nature and we could just dispose of it by making it as diluted in rock as it is in nature?

      Although that's an interesting idea for the disposal of nuclear (fission) waste for an advanced civilization, I tend to believe that the energy required to melt rock and integrate melted fuel rods to a dilute enough concentration not to harm natural life would be cost prohibitive. In addition, any civilization THAT advanced would undoubtedly be able to get better efficiency out of their reactors before zipping away.

      Unless maybe it's technology from Atlantis. Given no doubt by the same aliens who built the pyramids. When do Milla Jovovich and Bruce Willis come out to save the world?

      *Cue conspiracy flame wars*

    2. Re:I don't know but there for Aliens. by tlambert · · Score: 2

      In addition, any civilization THAT advanced would undoubtedly be able to get better efficiency out of their reactors before zipping away.

      My guess is they'd also be running reactors that could use the fuel up more or less completely, resulting in far less spent fuel being produced, if any.

      You know, kind of like France does, with their spent fuel reprocessing and use of breeder reactors...

    3. Re:I don't know but there for Aliens. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Interesting

      The host rock for the Oklo reactors is fairly ordinary Proterozoic-aged sandstone and shales, so if some ancient civilization did abandon waste products, they basically left it on the surface on a beach or river bank about 1.7 billion years ago. It wasn't molten rock. Interestingly enough, there's also a lot of bitumen (solid oil) in the deposit, so there was plenty of organic material associated that was probably involved in trapping the uranium. Maybe a gigantic landfill? :-)

    4. Re:I don't know but there for Aliens. by angel'o'sphere · · Score: 2

      France has no running breader reactors since decades.

      --
      Cost free eBook I read (by iBook/Kobo/Amazon/ObookO/Gutenberg etc.): "The Green Odyssey" by Philip Jose Farmer.
    5. Re:I don't know but there for Aliens. by SJHillman · · Score: 2

      No breader reactors? What about baguette reactors?

  2. "Have all been mined out" by SuperKendall · · Score: 4, Interesting

    Except for the shallow one mentioned at the end of the article that still remains, just mostly washed out...

    It seems like the other aspects they wanted to study (like the spread of byproducts) is still feasible, since those would have spread beyond the mining site if they spread at all.

    --
    "There is more worth loving than we have strength to love." - Brian Jay Stanley
    1. Re:"Have all been mined out" by Sockatume · · Score: 2

      One of the useful early findings was that the reaction products hadn't appreciably migrated away from the original uranium seam, which is important for understanding waste disposal. Unfortunately that probably means that most of the useful information left with the uranium.

      --
      No kidding!!! What do you say at this point?
  3. bottom pop up ads on slashdot? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Insightful

    What's the deal with these ads that pop up from the bottom on slashdot?

    Wasn't the "beta" experiment enough to piss people off with?

    They need to find new ways?

  4. Re:Non-Tablet-Friendly Version Please by rvw · · Score: 2

    Is there a non-tablet-friendly version of the article? One that's non-blinding on a normal screen?
    Sorry for trying to read it...

    CTRL-A, open your text editor, CTRL-V

  5. How low can you go?(power density) by tinkerton · · Score: 3, Interesting

    also to discover whether the laws of physics that govern nuclear reactions may have changed in the 1.5 billion years since the reactor switched off.

    What bollocks. I think the actual question to ask is how it's possible to create the conditions for an very large (the size of the mine)and extremely low density (the concentration of natural ore) nuclear reactor.

    In the days the preference for civilian reactors was to develop further along the design of the compact high density submarine reactors. The nuclear industry never got over that. There are prototypes of large reactors with much lower power density. It's a natural question to ask how low enrichment and low density one can go.

    1. Re:How low can you go?(power density) by silentcoder · · Score: 5, Interesting

      >What bollocks. I think the actual question to ask is how it's possible to create the conditions for an very large (the size of the mine)and extremely low density (the concentration of natural ore) nuclear reactor.

      No bollocks involved - those laws depend on the fundamental constants. Scientists have speculated for decades about the possibility that these may have been slightly different in the distant past - and thus the laws of physics would not be exactly the same.

      This is quite controversial, mavericky science because it's very hard to test - but it's actually become less so in the past 20 years or so because some evidence from astronomy (in particular the cosmic background radiation) is suggesting that they may have been slightly different in the very early days of the universe.
      Oklo offers a chance to look more recently (on a universal scale) but still a long time ago - 2 billion years, about half the lifetime of the planet.

      If there had been subtle and slight changes over the years - then 2 billion years ago should be enough to detect some - much smaller even than what cosmic radiation data has hinted at, but on the same line (that said there are other theories that could explain the radiation data - the question is unanswered at the moment since none of them have any other supporting evidence yet either).

      Now there's no proof the fundamental constants have changed at all since the big bang, but there's no proof they haven't. For most physics it's perfectly adequate to assume they have always been constant, but if they weren't and we could determine that, it would change a lot of our understanding of physics - particularly the physics of the early universe.
      By factoring in those different values we could possibly explain a lot of the other things which currently remain open questions.

      So while it's unlikely - it's nevertheless and most decidedly NOT bollocks. It's maverick science for sure - but it's still science and still done according to the scientific method. If it yields results those results will be greatly valuable.
      Just because there's a 99.999% chance your theory is a dead end, doesn't mean it's not proper science to damn well test it and make sure.

      --
      Unicode killed the ASCII-art *
    2. Re:How low can you go?(power density) by Zorpheus · · Score: 2

      What bollocks. I think the actual question to ask is how it's possible to create the conditions for an very large (the size of the mine)and extremely low density (the concentration of natural ore) nuclear reactor.

      In the days the preference for civilian reactors was to develop further along the design of the compact high density submarine reactors. The nuclear industry never got over that. There are prototypes of large reactors with much lower power density. It's a natural question to ask how low enrichment and low density one can go.

      2 billion years ago the concentration of U-235 was still 3% of the uranium. It decreased due to the shorter half-lifes of U-235.
      A pressurized heave water reactor runs with today's unenriched uranium, so we are better than that already.

    3. Re:How low can you go?(power density) by AlecC · · Score: 2

      Why does inflation making space expand faster than the speed of light change the constants? No particle or energy travelled faster than light. Just space expanded smoothly such that, over a sufficient distance, the rate of change of that distance exceeded C. Nothing to trouble relativity in that fact: geometry changed, but nothing moved to fast. In fact, it is still the case: if the Hubble expansion is uniform, as it appears to be, at some distance the rate of recession must exceed C; there are objects which we will never see, because light cannot cross the ever-expanding gulf between us.

      --
      Consciousness is an illusion caused by an excess of self consciousness.
  6. Re:Also, why dump the waste on earth??? by Chas · · Score: 2

    Why "dump" anything?

    Reprocess. Instead of polluting the environment with stuff that has a half-life measured in thousands of years, keep reprocessing it, and burn the stuff down into something that could be used in next-gen reactors and keep going until you've extracted as much energy from it as possible and the remaining waste has a half-life measured in decades or a few short centuries.

    Done right it can be reprocessed on-site and almost in-situ.
    This way there's no need for large containment vessels to sit out in what's essentially a parking lot in the back.

    At the end of it all, you wind up with a relatively tiny amount of waste, compared to what we output today. Easier to store, easier to manage, easier to transport when a site finally completely decommissions and is returned to nature.

    Dumping it into space is the equivalent of shitting on your elderly neighbor's lawn. You may not have to deal with it right away, but it's eventually going to come back and haunt you.

    --


    Chas - The one, the only.
    THANK GOD!!!
  7. Re:Also, why dump the waste on earth??? by mrbester · · Score: 2

    "...the equivalent of shitting on your elderly neighbor's lawn. You may not have to deal with it right away, but it's eventually going to come back and haunt you."

    I'm pretty sure I'll outlive my elderly neighbour. In fact, I think I'll *make* sure I do, brb.

    --
    "Wait. Something's happening. It's opening up! My God, it's full of apricots!"
  8. Re:More awesome than Autobots. Us, I mean by K.+S.+Kyosuke · · Score: 4, Funny

    Obviously, that uranium ice cream must good for the nuclear family.

    --
    Ezekiel 23:20
  9. Obligatory Nuke Snark by Latent+Heat · · Score: 3
    Is this a geek thing, a Web thing, or our modern age that information is passed on in a scolding?

    A post offers reprocessing as a solution to the reactor waste problem, and a proper counter to that argument is that reprocessing has a waste problem all its own. The total amount of long-lived waste may be reduced, but the "hot" shorter lived waste get spread around into corrosive liquid effluents?

    Could a a person remind Slashdot readers of this tradeoff without suggesting that the original post was made by an untutored fool? Or is it important to label someone suggesting reprocessing as a foolish person, to offer a (mild) public scolding of their idea because reprocessing is a bad enough policy that shaming is merited?

  10. Re:Wait.... by MightyYar · · Score: 2

    It's conceivable that some constants and such have a slight drift. Hell, space itself appears to be expanding so anything is fair game IMHO!

    --
    W..w..W - Willy Waterloo washes Warren Wiggins who is washing Waldo Woo.
  11. Careful... by Mayhem178 · · Score: 4, Funny

    Don't let the hippies hear you suggest that fission is a naturally occurring process. They might...

    *sunglasses*

    ...go nuclear.

    --

    "You will pay for your lack of vision..." - Emperor Palpatine to Ray Charles