Star Cluster Ejected From Galaxy At 2,000,000 MPH

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Star Cluster Ejected From Galaxy At 2,000,000 MPH

Posted by Soulskill on Friday May 2, 2014 @01:33AM from the get-out-and-stay-out dept.

William Robinson writes: "According to a new report, a globular cluster of several thousand stars (compressed into a space just a few dozen light-years apart) is being thrown out of galaxy M87. The cluster, named HVGC-1, is traveling at a rate of 2 million miles per hour. The discovery was made by Nelson Caldwell of the Harvard-Smithsonian Center for Astrophysics and his team while studying the space around the supergiant elliptical galaxy M87. Caldwell and colleagues think M87 might have two supermassive black holes at its center. The star cluster wandered too close to the pair, which picked off many of the cluster's outer stars while the inner core remained intact. The black holes then acted like a slingshot, flinging the cluster away at a tremendous speed."

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Velocity by dtmos · 2014-05-02 01:34 · Score: 5, Interesting

Two million miles per hour is less than 0.003c, but still quite a clip, even in astronomical terms.
Since they're discussing velocity (vector speed), and not just speed, the headline is correct in saying " -1000 km/s" when the measured value is -1025 km/s, but one can debate whether the abstract is correct in saying "an extraordinary blueshift of -1025 km/s", rather than "an extraordinary blueshift of 1025 km/s", since "blueshift" gives one the sign of the velocity already.
1. Re:Velocity by KrackerJax · 2014-05-02 01:37 · Score: 3, Interesting
  
  It would take a ship travelling at that speed roughly two days to travel from Earth to the Sun (1 AU). In those terms it doesn't seem all that fast. Pedestrian, really.
  
  --
  Sauer
2. Re:Velocity by Anonymous Coward · 2014-05-02 01:46 · Score: 0
  
  I'm just impressed that the "journalist" didn't try to convert the metric estimate with one significant digit into an exact mph with 8 apparently significant digits.
  More relevantly, with a whole lot of calculus and some really interesting tech advances, this might provide an example of how to do some STL intergalactic travel.
3. Re:Velocity by Anonymous Coward · 2014-05-02 01:55 · Score: 0
  
  It may not be all that fast, but I think going that far above the speed limit would get you the chair in my town.
4. Re:Velocity by Anonymous Coward · 2014-05-02 01:59 · Score: 0
  
  But if you take into account the mass of all of those stars, it's a heck of a lot of momentum!
5. Re:Velocity by pr0t0 · 2014-05-02 02:13 · Score: 5, Interesting
  
  I wonder if the Earth was in orbit around a star that was part of such a cluster, would we notice the effects of such an ejection? Certainly the night sky would change, but the whole process could take of millions of years. Would we feel any immediate effects from the proximity to the black holes? What would our current state of technology, instrumentation and measurement tell us about our relative place and speed? And what, if any change would there be in our civilization's future. Not being in the galaxy seems isolating, but if the host star remains unchanged perhaps there is no change in our destiny. Or perhaps that by the time we developed interstellar travel we'd be too far from the host galaxy to travel to anything other than the stars in our cluster.
  It'd make for a good sci-fi book I think.
  
  --
  I'm sorry, but your opinion seems to be wrong.
6. Re:Velocity by Anonymous Coward · 2014-05-02 02:43 · Score: 5, Funny
  
  Only on Slashdot is a speed of 2*10^^6 MPH
  1) expressed in imperial units
  2) called "pedestrian" by some poster
  Good stuff.
7. Re:Velocity by LeadSongDog · 2014-05-02 03:01 · Score: 4, Funny
  
  So that would be 48.5 megaSmoot/semester, based on the conventional 39 hour semester
  
  --
  Oh, I'm sorry sir, I thought you were referring to me, Mr. Wensleydale.
8. Re:Velocity by Anonymous Coward · 2014-05-02 03:10 · Score: 0
  
  Pedestrian? Absolutely!
  
  The black holes then acted like a slingshot, flinging the cluster away at a tremendous speed.
  Wake me up when a cluster gets flung at ludicrous speed.
9. Re:Velocity by fintux · 2014-05-02 03:13 · Score: 1
  
  Two million miles per hour is less than 0.003c, but still quite a clip, even in astronomical terms.
  Well it is approximately 0.00298c, so taking into account that the speed reading only has one significant digit, the speed of the star cluster might very well be above 0.003c.
10. Re:Velocity by siddesu · 2014-05-02 04:06 · Score: 0
  
  2 mil miles per hour is something like 1000 km/s. Considering that the escape velocity on the surface of the Sun is something like 600km/s that's not pedestrian at all.
11. Re:Velocity by siddesu · 2014-05-02 04:23 · Score: 1, Interesting
  
  would we notice the effects of such an ejection?
  Effects will depend on the differences of acceleration of different parts of the cluster. Because the speed has probably increased over many millenia, and because it is still a cluster, they were most likely very hard to observe.
12. Re:Velocity by skastrik · 2014-05-02 04:26 · Score: 5, Interesting
  
  Frederik Pohl's The World at the End of Time deals with the ejections of solar systems on a grand scale.
13. Re:Velocity by OakDragon · 2014-05-02 04:27 · Score: 1
  
  Never seen the movie.
  
  Still get the reference.
  
  Modding myself up this time.
  
  --
  Dark Reflection
14. Re:Velocity by FatdogHaiku · 2014-05-02 04:57 · Score: 1
  
  You'll be circling the globe roughly every 8 seconds so use a different street each time you go through town...
  they won't have time to set a trap before shock waves have wiped the town, chair and all, off the map.
  
  --
  You have the right to remain sentient. If you give up the right to remain sentient, you will be elected to public office
15. Re:Velocity by kasperd · 2014-05-02 05:00 · Score: 1
  
  I wonder if the Earth was in orbit around a star that was part of such a cluster, would we notice the effects of such an ejection?
  On a related note, I have been wondering if a civilization, that manages to populate an entire galaxy could use such ejections to spread to other galaxies.
  
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  Do you care about the security of your wireless mouse?
16. Re:Velocity by Anonymous Coward · 2014-05-02 05:05 · Score: 0
  
  Ian M. Banks "Against A Dark Background" takes place in a star system that was ejected from it's galaxy however that detail is hardly significant to the plot at hand and is mentioned rather far into the book as a title drop.
17. Re:Velocity by meta-monkey · 2014-05-02 05:17 · Score: 2
  
  IANAA, but I would not be shocked to learn that being anywhere close enough to a black hole to cause this galactic ejection would mean sterilization via gamma radiation from the other matter being ripped apart and then colliding with other matter in the accretion disk. There are so many high-energy events going on near a black hole that irradiation seems very likely to me.
  
  --
  We don't have a state-run media we have a media-run state.
18. Re:Velocity by Keith111 · 2014-05-02 05:26 · Score: 1
  
  I had to convert 2,000,000 MPH into M/s to understand how fast this actually was in the context of space. #EVEproblems
19. Re:Velocity by FatdogHaiku · 2014-05-02 05:27 · Score: 1
  
  Don't know why I saw 12 million instead of 2 million in TFS... still, even 555 miles per second should have a nice shock wave.
  
  --
  You have the right to remain sentient. If you give up the right to remain sentient, you will be elected to public office
20. Re:Velocity by Pallas+Athena · 2014-05-02 05:30 · Score: 1
  
  I think that if we were in such a cluster (thousands of stars within a few dozen lightyears) the night sky would be spectacular. Of course, our instruments would measure that the fainter stars far away, the ones of our 'old' galaxy, would move, but I think that 99% of the population wouldn't notice any difference. As to interstellar travel, with such a huge number of stars that close by, I guess we would have enough interesting destinations for quite a while.
21. Re:Velocity by FatdogHaiku · 2014-05-02 05:32 · Score: 2
  
  Only on Slashdot is a speed of 2*10^^6 MPH
  1) expressed in imperial units
  2) called "pedestrian" by some poster
  Good stuff.
  1) You won't be dissing those "imperial units" once the Death Star is finished!
  2) I have it on good authority that everything is already moving at 12,000,000 a minute so yes, 2 million miles an HOUR does seem "pedestrian".
  
  I'll save you the trouble on the numbers:
  http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Galaxy_Song
  
  --
  You have the right to remain sentient. If you give up the right to remain sentient, you will be elected to public office
22. Re:Velocity by dpilot · 2014-05-02 05:32 · Score: 1
  
  That wasn't so much ejection as packing bags and leaving. (Not really a spoiler, this was revealed early in the book.)
  
  --
  The living have better things to do than to continue hating the dead.
23. Re:Velocity by gewalker · 2014-05-02 06:12 · Score: 2
  
  I'm sure all would be happier if this were expressed in more familiar units
  555.55 miles per sec
  894.08 kilometers per sec
  2300 times the muzzle velocity of a S&W 40 cal bullet
  2600 times the speed of sound
  2.1 E4 times the speed of a fastball
  8.7 e4 times the speed of Usain Bolt
  2 e13 times the speed of grass growing
  5.376 E9 furlongs per for fortnight
24. Re:Velocity by someone1234 · 2014-05-02 06:28 · Score: 1
  
  No, either he would be dead on Earth, or escape into space :)
  
  --
  Patents Drive Free Software as Hurricanes Drive Construction Industry
25. Re:Velocity by Anonymous Coward · 2014-05-02 06:31 · Score: 0
  
  to get slingshooted that fast it should have passed pretty near those supermassive black hole, so probably anything alive on those star systems has been scoured clean by accretion disks irradiation.
26. Re:Velocity by Anonymous Coward · 2014-05-02 07:11 · Score: 0
  
  The relevant velocity is relative to its home galaxy, so it's not 2Mmph at all, but closer to 5Mmph. Better units include 0.77% c, 1.3AU/day, 2.4pc/kyr or 14 billion furlongs per fortnight.
27. Re:Velocity by Anonymous Coward · 2014-05-02 07:28 · Score: 0
  
  Yeah we've got tons of supermassive black holes hanging around that we can conveniently slingshot around.
28. Re:Velocity by butalearner · 2014-05-02 07:56 · Score: 2
  
  More relevantly, with a whole lot of calculus and some really interesting tech advances, this might provide an example of how to do some STL intergalactic travel.
  No no no, you (and another guy just a little ways down) haven't made the most interesting connection yet. This is a fancy gravity assist on steroids, but it would still take millions if not billions of years to get to even one of Milky Way's satellite galaxies, let alone Andromeda. So forget about intergalactic travel for now. Where this becomes more immediately interesting is finding pairs of very close, very large gravity wells within the same galaxy. That makes them into something rather like Mass Effect relays. Just wait for the proper alignment and launch toward the opposite pair at very high speeds, which can only be canceled by a similar gravity well. Alpha Centauri is a binary star system but the stars are quite far away, so I doubt it would work there, which is too bad since something relatively close like that would have been nice for us. Gliese 667 is a triple star system where the two larger ones are 12.6 AU apart, so that's a much better but still might not be close enough (I don't know, haven't done any math).
29. Re:Velocity by CheshireDragon · 2014-05-02 08:48 · Score: 1
  
  I think if a civilization had the technology to spread across a galaxy there would be better means of travel.
  Think about it. Our galaxy is relatively small in it is 100,000 ly in width and 20,000 ly in height. Right now we can't even get to our nearest neighbor(Alpha Centauri) in a lifetime. If we could spread across a galaxy, there would be some other amazing form of travel that would make sling-shotting around a black hole look like taking coach.
  
  --
  "That's right...I said it."
30. Re:Velocity by Anonymous Coward · 2014-05-02 09:14 · Score: 0
  
  "something relatively close like that would have been nice for us"
  Given how catastrophically that would have disrupted the formation of the planets and continuously bombard the Solar System with whacking great chunks of rock from the tattered distortion of the Oort cloud that such a system would keep, I think you have a warped definition of "nice".
31. Re:Velocity by kasperd · 2014-05-02 09:29 · Score: 1
  
  Right now we can't even get to our nearest neighbor(Alpha Centauri) in a lifetime.
  Being able to do that would require some major technological advances. But if mankind can successfully colonize a planet orbiting any of the closest stars, then I don't think nearly as large technological advances would be needed to continue throughout the rest of the galaxy. It would basically just be doing the same thing over again using known technology. It may take a long time.
  
  If the trip takes one generation, colonization of a planet takes a couple of generations, and preparing for the next trip takes a couple of generations, the time to move from start to star would seem like an eternity from the individual's point of view. But on a cosmic time scale, it would still be fairly quick, and colonizing the entire galaxy would seem like an inevitable outcome, if the colonization of the first handful of star systems had been realized.
  
  But even if all of that happened, it would not imply that means of intergalactic transportation would be easily within reach. The trip between a couple of stars within our galaxy is much shorter than the trip between two galaxies. Such a trip could take many many generations and would require an energy source for the trip.
  
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  Do you care about the security of your wireless mouse?
32. Re:Velocity by Anonymous Coward · 2014-05-02 09:32 · Score: 0
  
  Modding you down for not seeing the movie :)
33. Re:Velocity by Anonymous Coward · 2014-05-02 09:42 · Score: 0
  
  This is the only way to travel. Pack up the whole cluster and head for another galaxy. Reminds me of the Dweller level of engineering in Iain M. Banks The Algerbraist "the long crossing" indeed.
34. Re:Velocity by S.O.B. · 2014-05-02 10:04 · Score: 1
  
  Here's a few more:
  160,000 times the top speed of a Segway
  500,000 times faster than a senior on a scooter
  6.67 E07 times faster than a garden snail
  1.11 E15 times faster than Europe and North America are drifting apart
  infinity times faster than the U.S. Congress
  
  --
  Some of what I say is fact, some is conjecture, the rest I'm just blowing out my ass...you guess.
35. Re:Velocity by Tablizer · 2014-05-02 11:14 · Score: 1
  
  I wonder if the Earth was...would we notice the effects of such an ejection
  We'd all have Don King hair.
  
  --
  Table-ized A.I.
36. Re:Velocity by beheaderaswp · 2014-05-02 13:35 · Score: 1
  
  Two million miles per hour is less than 0.003c, but still quite a clip, even in astronomical terms.
  Since they're discussing velocity (vector speed), and not just speed, the headline is correct in saying " -1000 km/s" when the measured value is -1025 km/s, but one can debate whether the abstract is correct in saying "an extraordinary blueshift of -1025 km/s", rather than "an extraordinary blueshift of 1025 km/s", since "blueshift" gives one the sign of the velocity already.
  There's definitely more that 1.21 gigawatts of energy involved....
  
  --
  Another consultant who stuck it out.
  
  "We are the Priests, of the Temples of Syrinx..."
37. Re:Velocity by Anonymous Coward · 2014-05-02 14:06 · Score: 0
  
  the first thing I took issue with was 'compressed'
  
  According to a new report, a globular cluster of several thousand stars (compressed into a space just a few dozen light-years apart)
  
  Really? Are they compressed? Because I'm pretty sure if there was inward pressure ('compression'), gravity would be more than enough to cause them all to combine. No, I'm very certain 'compressed' is the wrong word.
38. Re:Velocity by RockDoctor · 2014-05-03 11:55 · Score: 1
  
  Two million miles per hour is less than 0.003c, but still quite a clip, even in astronomical terms.
  Agreed.
  My preferred rule of thumb for "is that fast?" is to work out how fast an object traverses it's own diameter. In this case, for an individual star, about a half an hour for a sun-size star. A lot, lot more than that for the entire cluster/ cluster core.
  
  --
  Birds are not dinosaur descendants;birds are dinosaurs, for all useful meanings of "birds", "are" and "dinosaurs"
12 Parsecs by Anonymous Coward · 2014-05-02 01:39 · Score: 1

This is at least 12 parsecs.
1. Re:12 Parsecs by ChrisSlicks · 2014-05-02 02:43 · Score: 1
  
  Parsec is a unit of distance (like light-years), without an expression over time it is not defining any speed.
2. Re:12 Parsecs by stjobe · 2014-05-02 03:30 · Score: 4, Informative
  
  Whoosh.
  That was the sound of the Millenium Falcon - the only ship to ever do the Kessel Run in under 12 Parsecs - passing over your head.
  
  --
  "Total destruction the only solution" - Bob Marley
3. Re:12 Parsecs by ChrisSlicks · 2014-05-02 04:18 · Score: 1
  
  I know it's from the movie, but in the movie he is referring to the optimized distance travelling through the Maw Cluster and not time directly.
4. Re:12 Parsecs by Anonymous Coward · 2014-05-02 04:51 · Score: 1
  
  Now that's just sad.
5. Re:12 Parsecs by Anonymous Coward · 2014-05-02 05:49 · Score: 0
  
  That's just the explanation fans gave to cover up the fact that Lucas is a complete idiot that didn't know what he was writing.
6. Re:12 Parsecs by Anonymous Coward · 2014-05-02 07:32 · Score: 0
  
  No he isn't, Lucas made a mistake because Lucas is not an astronomer and didn't think that doing much research was necessary while making his child's fantasy film. Lucas was right.
7. Re:12 Parsecs by Anonymous Coward · 2014-05-02 09:16 · Score: 0
  
  This is the same mentality that leads to police shows featuring detectives shouting "ENHANCE!" at their grainy surveillance videos. To paraphrase a great film genius: "Do not want!"
Reads like a TMZ.com headline by bazmail · 2014-05-02 01:39 · Score: 2

If Star Cluster was a rap posse and Galaxy was a club.
1. Re:Reads like a TMZ.com headline by slashmydots · 2014-05-02 01:52 · Score: 1
  
  I was thinking the star cluster was a bachelorette party :-P
2. Re:Reads like a TMZ.com headline by Anonymous Coward · 2014-05-02 02:04 · Score: 0
  
  In that case, the speed is even more impressive!
If it's not too much to ask by Arancaytar · 2014-05-02 01:41 · Score: 5, Funny

Could we please use real scientific units when talking about science?
How much is this in libraries of congress per fortnight?
1. Re:If it's not too much to ask by stewsters · 2014-05-02 01:48 · Score: 5, Funny
  
  Remember that 1 lightyear = 1.03461597 × 1014 American football fields.
2. Re:If it's not too much to ask by stewsters · 2014-05-02 01:49 · Score: 2
  
  The superscript didn't work. edit: 10 ^ 14
3. Re:If it's not too much to ask by K.+S.+Kyosuke · 2014-05-02 01:51 · Score: 2
  
  Hey, I'm European. We don't have those imperial units here. How much Romes per day is one Library of Congress per fortnight?
  
  --
  Ezekiel 23:20
4. Re:If it's not too much to ask by man-element · 2014-05-02 02:08 · Score: 2
  
  Hey, I'm European. We don't have those imperial units here. How much Romes per day is one Library of Congress per fortnight?
  Roughly 8 million olympic size swimming pools per menstrual cycle.
5. Re:If it's not too much to ask by Anonymous Coward · 2014-05-02 02:32 · Score: 0
  
  Wait, you know my wife?
6. Re:If it's not too much to ask by Anonymous Coward · 2014-05-02 02:35 · Score: 0
  
  We weren't talking about your mom's flow...
7. Re:If it's not too much to ask by Anonymous Coward · 2014-05-02 03:28 · Score: 0
  
  How deep is an olympic size swimming pool? FINA just specifies a minimum and a recommended depth.
8. Re:If it's not too much to ask by Anonymous Coward · 2014-05-08 06:31 · Score: 0
  
  K. S. Kyosuke: You've been called out (for tossing names) & you ran "forrest" from a fair challenge http://slashdot.org/comments.p...
They didn't pay the rent? by tekrat · 2014-05-02 01:42 · Score: 4, Interesting

A cluster of stars were "thrown out" of galaxy M87?... what, they didn't pay the rent? Or is M87 expressing a case of "tough love"?
The real question is; by what force were they ejected from the galaxy? The fastest we've ever been about to propel something is 24,000 mph -- and that's with a lot of gravity assists.... if we could figure out how to get a spacecraft to 2 million mph, trips around our solar system would go a lot faster.....

--
If telephones are outlawed, then only outlaws will have telephones.
1. Re:They didn't pay the rent? by jfdavis668 · 2014-05-02 01:49 · Score: 3, Funny
  
  It was an old, run down section of the galaxy.
2. Re:They didn't pay the rent? by Anonymous Coward · 2014-05-02 02:09 · Score: 0
  
  if we could figure out how to get a spacecraft to 2 million mph, trips around our solar system would go a lot faster.....
  I imagine that it helps to have a reasonably sized black hole around.
3. Re:They didn't pay the rent? by methano · 2014-05-02 02:10 · Score: 1
  
  Unfortunately, all the passengers would be smushed to a 1 mm thick puddle in the back of the capsule. That is if we got them to that speed in a lifetime. Or maybe not. I need to go do some more math.
4. Re:They didn't pay the rent? by CanHasDIY · 2014-05-02 02:10 · Score: 5, Funny
  
  It was an old, run down section of the galaxy.
  So, what are you trying to say? That black holes only live in the galactic ghetto?
  Racist.
  
  --
  An enigma, wrapped in a riddle, shrouded in bacon and cheese
5. Re:They didn't pay the rent? by jez9999 · 2014-05-02 02:31 · Score: 1
  
  The fastest we've ever been about to propel something is 24,000 mph
  Actually, Wikipedia says Voyager 1 is travelling at 38,350 mph.
  
  --
  == Jez ==
  Do you miss Firefox? Try Pale Moon.
6. Re:They didn't pay the rent? by Payden+K.+Pringle · 2014-05-02 02:39 · Score: 1
  
  One problem with that is that whatever system we used would have to have two ends. One to get us up to 2 million MPH and another to stop us.
  i.e. since the summary mentions two supermassive black holes probably having something to do with getting to that speed, we'd probably need something similar or equivalent to slow down within a reasonable timeframe from that speed.
  Doing something like that within our solar system would be somewhat difficult I think. Even if we could somehow compact that much power into something we could build near Earth, we'd need an equivalent one wherever we are going in the solar system.
  It's like Mass Effect. You can only go to places using the Mass Relay beacons that also have Mass Relay beacons. You need breaks as much as, if not more than, gas.
7. Re:They didn't pay the rent? by CreatureComfort · 2014-05-02 02:39 · Score: 4, Informative
  
  Nah, at a constant 1 G acceleration you could get to 2 M mph in under 51 hours.
  
  --
  "Unheard of means only it's undreamed of yet,
  Impossible means not yet done." ~~ Julia Ecklar
8. Re:They didn't pay the rent? by Anonymous Coward · 2014-05-02 02:56 · Score: 0
  
  One thing I would like to point out. Was that your breaks don't need to be as big as your gas for interplanetary travel and beyond. 1. You'll burn off fuel which will lower your mass even while breaking. 2. You could use a staged design which would allow an even lower mass for breaking. 3. You could dump waste including used food storage and living space(assuming one-way ticket.)
  I would like to thank KSP....
9. Re:They didn't pay the rent? by Anonymous Coward · 2014-05-02 02:59 · Score: 1
  
  They're being vague because they are scientists and they don't know precisely how it happened. Basically, a scientist took a picture of something very far away and hypothesized what was in the picture based on other pictures and theories. As far as what force was involved... If the picture is right, if the hypothesis of what's in the picture is accurate, then a scientist might hypothesize that the accelerating force was gravity, and try to construct a model of that galaxy to fit that hypothesis or alter an existing model developed by others. If the scientist is correct than his model or his alteration of the existing model will be shown to fit with future goings on in or around that galaxy as observed by out photographs.
10. Re:They didn't pay the rent? by tyme · 2014-05-02 04:13 · Score: 1
  
  The cluster was wearing Google Glass.
  
  --
  just a ghost in the machine.
11. Re:They didn't pay the rent? by Anonymous Coward · 2014-05-02 04:59 · Score: 0
  
  It doesn't matter, because the fastest we've been able to propel something is at LEAST 147,600 mph: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation_Plumbbob#Propulsion_of_steel_plate_cap
12. Re:They didn't pay the rent? by kasperd · 2014-05-02 05:17 · Score: 1
  
  Even the speed of light does not seem so fast when compared to 1G. c / 1G = 354 days. The implication of that is that at 1G acceleration, you'd reach relativistic speed in less than one year.
  
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  Do you care about the security of your wireless mouse?
13. Re:They didn't pay the rent? by Anonymous Coward · 2014-05-02 05:27 · Score: 0
  
  It's African-American holes, you insensitive clod!
14. Re:They didn't pay the rent? by Anonymous Coward · 2014-05-02 06:10 · Score: 0
  
  I would like to point out that in the context of a scientific discussion, you two intelligent people are completely dumbfounded by the words brake/break...
  The correct word BRAKE should have been used, but you both chose to use the incorrect word BREAK...
  A vehicle has an emergency BRAKE... A person can take a coffee BREAK...Can you please see the difference? The words are synonyms...I would expect the average slashdotter to knwo the difference...
  Unless of couse when Payden said: "You need breaks as much as, if not more than, gas" he meant that need rest breaks or coffee breaks as much, if not more than, gas...
15. Re:They didn't pay the rent? by Nemyst · 2014-05-02 07:18 · Score: 1
  
  Only if you assume that Newtonian mechanics apply, which they won't. When estimating acceleration for something like 0.003c, you can disregard relativistic effects, but not when you get anywhere near c. At that point, the velocity needs to be computed through general relativity, which is fiendishly more complicated than just v/a.
16. Re:They didn't pay the rent? by kasperd · 2014-05-02 07:43 · Score: 1
  
  At that point, the velocity needs to be computed through general relativity, which is fiendishly more complicated than just v/a.
  Doing that division is no problem, and the result you will get is 354 days. Next one has to interpret the result. Now look carefully at what I said about the interpretation of that division. I said you'd be moving at relativistic speed after less than one year.
  
  The definition of relativistic speed is that you are moving so fast, that Newtonian formulas are no longer a good approximation. The Newtonian formulas say you'd be moving at 103% of the speed of light after a year, that is not a good approximation. Hence the speed you will be moving at is by definition relativistic.
  
  Let's put it differently and assume I was wrong. In other words we assume you would not reach relativistic speed. That implies Newton's laws would give a good approximation of the actual speed, and they say you'd have accelerated above the speed of light. Either way, you'd reach relativistic speeds within a year.
  
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  Do you care about the security of your wireless mouse?
17. Re:They didn't pay the rent? by Anonymous Coward · 2014-05-02 07:48 · Score: 0
  
  >> The words are synonyms...I would expect the average slashdotter to knwo the difference...
  They are not. They are homonyms. I would expect a pedant to know the difference.
  Howls of derisive laughter, Bruce!
18. Re:They didn't pay the rent? by pixelpusher220 · 2014-05-02 09:35 · Score: 1
  
  They make their own ghettos...just sayin ;-)
  
  --
  People in cars cause accidents....accidents in cars cause people :-D
19. Re:They didn't pay the rent? by ultranova · 2014-05-02 12:04 · Score: 2
  
  At that point, the velocity needs to be computed through general relativity, which is fiendishly more complicated than just v/a.
  
  Actually, it's just v = c*tanh(a*T/c).
  
  --
  Forget magic. Any technology distinguishable from divine power is insufficiently advanced.
What's that in forlongs to the nidhogg? by Anonymous Coward · 2014-05-02 01:45 · Score: 0

Time to leave the 1800s behind.
Slingshot effect by Anonymous Coward · 2014-05-02 01:45 · Score: 3, Funny

"The black holes then acted like a slingshot, flinging the cluster away at a tremendous speed."
... and then the star cluster went back in time and saved the whales from extinction.
Can anyone explain... by mark-t · 2014-05-02 01:50 · Score: 2

... if two spaceships counterclockwise in a circular path such that they are always on opposite side of the circle at relativistic speeds, looking out of the window at the other spaceship, because it appears to be travelling in the opposite direction, its speed is going to appear to be $\sqrt{2*v^2}/c$, and its clock should appear to be going more slowly than your own, right? So if both spaceships perceive that the other's clock is moving more slowly, what will they perceive if the spaceships come together to compare clocks? Will the clock on the other ship suddenly appear to be going faster than normal?

--
File under 'M' for 'Manic ranting'
1. Re:Can anyone explain... by wonkey_monkey · 2014-05-02 02:00 · Score: 3, Interesting
  
  You say it "appears to be travelling in the opposite direction," but does it? It never gets any closer or any further away. Both ships are travelling around a common center, but relative to each other, are they in fact (as far as time dilation is concerned) stationary?
  
  So if both spaceships perceive that the other's clock is moving more slowly, what will they perceive if the spaceships come together to compare clocks?
  You can simplify (or in the light my above thought, perhaps even "make valid") this particular question a bit by considering the twin paradox instead. The same thing happens - the twin who stays at home considers the travelling twin's clock to be slower, but so does the traveller. And it's the same on the home trip, too, even though the traveller is now moving towards the stay-at-home. What breaks the symettry of the situation is that only one of them undergoes acceleration at the start, turnaround, and end points.
  If the traveller had stayed at Alpha Centauri and his lazy twin had ventured out to follow him at the same speed, their clocks would match.
  I suspect that the same applies to the circling ships - the clocks will match if neither breaks symmetry, otherwise they won't. And if the symmetry break is done only at non-relativistic speeds - i.e., both twins slow to a stop, then one tootles over to the other at 10km/h - the clocks will practically match.
  
  --
  systemd is Roko's Basilisk.
2. Re:Can anyone explain... by wonkey_monkey · 2014-05-02 02:01 · Score: 1
  
  What breaks my spelling of the word "symmetry" is another matter entirely.
  
  --
  systemd is Roko's Basilisk.
3. Re:Can anyone explain... by Anonymous Coward · 2014-05-02 02:10 · Score: 0
  
  What are you looking out the window at? Old photons?
4. Re:Can anyone explain... by bjorniac · 2014-05-02 02:26 · Score: 4, Informative
  
  Well, there are a few things that would have to happen for them to compare clocks, and a key thing you're overlooking in your analysis:
  1) For circular motion, the two ships would not have constant velocity in their _own_ reference frames - they're both accelerating towards the center (I'm assuming a flat space-time here for simplicity, but in GR things don't change much). Acceleration causes time dilation too!
  2) For the ships to come together, they would have to maneouver. This will require further accelerations. Its during these that the other ship's clock will always appear to be moving faster.
  What you've really got here is a reworking of the classical twin paradox - if one twin goes to Alpha Centauri (AC) and back, and the other stays on Earth, from _each_ perspective, the other one moves away then comes back. Yet the one who went to AC and back comes back younger - why? Well, what you're missing is that _at_ AC you have to slow down and then accelerate back towards Earth. This is the missing segment of the space-time picture, as the surfaces of simultaneity change during this acceleration.
  I hope that clarifies things a bit.
5. Re:Can anyone explain... by Sockatume · 2014-05-02 02:51 · Score: 1
  
  That point bears emphasising: in relativity, an accelerating object is distinct from the rest of the universe.
  
  --
  No kidding!!! What do you say at this point?
6. Re:Can anyone explain... by wonkey_monkey · 2014-05-02 03:03 · Score: 1
  
  It's Friday and I've had a long day. Why you gotta go putting conceptual bombs like that in my brain?
  
  --
  systemd is Roko's Basilisk.
7. Re:Can anyone explain... by Sockatume · 2014-05-02 03:39 · Score: 1
  
  Don't worry, general relativity makes the laws of the universe equivalent for all reference frames again. Of course, then you're dealing with general relativity.
  
  --
  No kidding!!! What do you say at this point?
8. Re:Can anyone explain... by meta-monkey · 2014-05-02 05:22 · Score: 1
  
  But those spaceships would be under constant acceleration. Their velocity is changing direction as they travel around the black hole.
  
  --
  We don't have a state-run media we have a media-run state.
9. Re:Can anyone explain... by wonkey_monkey · 2014-05-02 06:10 · Score: 1
  
  I don't remember anyone mentioning a black hole! In any case, they're both accelerating in an exactly opposite and symmetrical manner. There'd be no way to determine which of the two spaceships you were on if you were randomly teleported onto one of them (unless you had details of their positions at a particular time, so let's pretend you don't, or there are no useful navigational markers) so there can be no difference in their clocks if they meet up in a symmetrical way (and no practical difference if they stop and make non-symmetrical manoeuvres to rendezvous at non-relativistic speeds).
  At least I think so. I'm not an astro- or any other kind of physicist.
  
  --
  systemd is Roko's Basilisk.
Any sign of Pierson Pupeteers? by Anonymous Coward · 2014-05-02 01:52 · Score: 1

What is the configuration of the star cluster?
2 million miles an hour ? by aepervius · 2014-05-02 01:55 · Score: 2

Why not just use per second (I won't even harp on using 900 km.s-1 at that point it seems neigh useless) and compare to speed of light (that's about 0.3% of speed of light by the way) or other astronomical measurement.

--
C. Sagan : A demon haunted world:
http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/0345409469/
visit randi.org
1. Re:2 million miles an hour ? by Anonymous Coward · 2014-05-03 13:23 · Score: 0
  
  Why not just use per second (I won't even harp on using 900 km.s-1 at that point it seems neigh useless) and compare to speed of light (that's about 0.3% of speed of light by the way) or other astronomical measurement.
  You must be new here, or else you would notice that whenever American media reports any scientific quantities, they will ALWAYS convert it to the most inconvenient units possible. E.g. memory size in number of Library of Congress or CDs, area in city blocks or football fields, volume in swimming pools, lengths in widths of hair, inches, feet or miles with 4 decimal points when the original was just 1-2 significant figures in metric, etc.
For the last time by Lucas123 · 2014-05-02 02:02 · Score: 3, Funny

Don't come back!
"Towards" at negative velocity? by wonkey_monkey · 2014-05-02 02:09 · Score: 1

A Globular Cluster Toward M87 with a Radial Velocity
Why don't they say "away from" at "(+)1000 km/s"? (if I've got that right; the somewhat hilarious "artist's impression" indicates, as does the headline, that the cluster is moving away from M87).
What's the significance of the negative velocity?

--
systemd is Roko's Basilisk.
Incredible! by Anonymous Coward · 2014-05-02 02:24 · Score: 0

Wow, that's about 30 times the speed that the Earth travels around the sun!
1. Re:Incredible! by Anonymous Coward · 2014-05-02 04:58 · Score: 0
  
  And would take 1400 years to travel from here to the nearest star
Another Question by Mapleperson · 2014-05-02 02:26 · Score: 4, Interesting

Another questions is what happens to the speeding cluster if is was flung out by a bigger galaxy. One would assume the the dark matter that originally present in the cluster would not take the same track. Without the supporting dark matter the radial velocities are too great for the outer stars of the cluster to continue orbiting the system. One would think that there should be trail of stars left behind. Could be a great way to investigate dark matter interaction with galaxies.
Marrow by MrKaos · 2014-05-02 02:27 · Score: 1

Come to think of it, this would be a great way to travel between galaxies. This would be an excellent Intergalactic Spacecraft!

--
My ism, it's full of beliefs.
1. Re:Marrow by laejoh · 2014-05-02 03:36 · Score: 1
  
  Let's call it an Intergalactic Bypass. Let's put a little sign next to it, saying "Don't Panic, next stop...the restaurant at the end of the universe."
2. Re:Marrow by meta-monkey · 2014-05-02 05:28 · Score: 1
  
  Not really. 2 million MPH is only like .003c, and the nearest galaxy to us is Andromeda, 2.5 million light-years away. You'd still be looking at a good 833 million years to get there.
  Interstellar distances are huge. Intergalactic distances are brain-destroyingly huge.
  
  --
  We don't have a state-run media we have a media-run state.
3. Re:Marrow by MrKaos · 2014-05-02 11:32 · Score: 1
  
  Not really. 2 million MPH is only like .003c, and the nearest galaxy to us is Andromeda, 2.5 million light-years away. You'd still be looking at a good 833 million years to get there.
  
  True, at least you would be traveling in style, if you could live that long.
  
  Interstellar distances are huge. Intergalactic distances are brain-destroyingly huge.
  
  Absolutely. Distances withing the cluster would be interesting, considering the black holes compressed them together.
  
  --
  My ism, it's full of beliefs.
4. Re:Marrow by RockDoctor · 2014-05-03 12:01 · Score: 1
  
  Absolutely. Distances withing the cluster would be interesting, considering the black holes compressed them together.
  Not so ; the suggestion is that the black hole interactions stripped the outer parts of the cluster off, leaving the most-tightly bound core region.
  
  --
  Birds are not dinosaur descendants;birds are dinosaurs, for all useful meanings of "birds", "are" and "dinosaurs"
5. Re:Marrow by MrKaos · 2014-05-03 13:06 · Score: 1
  
  Absolutely. Distances withing the cluster would be interesting, considering the black holes compressed them together.
  Not so ; the suggestion is that the black hole interactions stripped the outer parts of the cluster off, leaving the most-tightly bound core region.
  The distances between the stars within the most-tightly bound core region, ejected is what I was interested in.
  I read the main article however the summary says (compressed into a space just a few dozen light-years apart) I must have missed where the suggestion was made about stars being striped off, but it's very interesting. You can only imagine what that would look like over millions of years. Thanks for pointing it out.
  This is one of the reasons I love about being a geek and getting excited about these epic galactic movements that make our lives look completely insignificant.
  
  --
  My ism, it's full of beliefs.
Eew! by Anonymous Coward · 2014-05-02 02:27 · Score: 0

That's a lot of blood.
Towards Us by Infiniti2000 · 2014-05-02 02:29 · Score: 5, Informative

The Virgo Cluster galaxy, M87, has ejected an entire star cluster, throwing it toward us at more than two million miles per hour.
I can imagine people getting alarmed at this, but they shouldn't. If it's truly directly towards us (unlikely), and never veers off course (unlikely), it would still take about 18.3 million years to reach us.
1. Re:Towards Us by sinij · 2014-05-02 03:05 · Score: 1
  
  This might be how advanced civilizations do space travel.
  
  Oblig: I for one, welcome our new cluster-slinging galactic-traveling overlords!
2. Re:Towards Us by Anonymous Coward · 2014-05-02 04:51 · Score: 0
  
  Minor correction .. that should be about 18 billion years. So warm jackets and mittens will be mandatory between the time the sun turns into a lump of coal and the arrival of the star cluster ...
  For the interested: Assuming Google, the source of all knowledge in the universe, is correct, the distance from M27 to earth is 5.349x10^7 light years from here or 31.4 x 10^19 miles. The cluster is moving at 2x10^6 mph or1.75 x 10^10 mpy.
3. Re:Towards Us by Anonymous Coward · 2014-05-02 04:53 · Score: 0
  
  Correction to the correction ... that is M87 not M27
4. Re:Towards Us by Tablizer · 2014-05-02 11:08 · Score: 1
  
  This might be how advanced civilizations do space travel.
  No, it's how cheap civilizations do it. Advanced ones want a way to change their mind and turn back.
  
  --
  Table-ized A.I.
5. Re:Towards Us by Infiniti2000 · 2014-05-05 04:11 · Score: 1
  
  It was a lot of zeroes so if I missed an order of magnitude, my apologies. I'm not gonna double check again, though, because I think mil or bil doesn't matter. :)
Wan-Tu has been Busy - World at the End of Time by Anonymous Coward · 2014-05-02 02:30 · Score: 1

Frederick Phol
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_World_at_the_End_of_Time
An Interstellar Being that lives in the heart of a star "Flings" a cluster of Stars out of his Galaxy and far into the Future due to Time Dilation. On one planets that orbits one of the Stars lives a new colony of humans, cut off from Earth they come to understand something is wrong with their new home and the Universe recedes far into the past. Meanwhile one of the original colonists proceeds to "Time travel" himself due to cryonics still aboard the original Colonist spacecraft.
Eons in the Future Wan-tu is the last survivor in a Universe beyond the Stelleferous Age, when all the Stars in the Universe have died and only the cold dark husks of their former bodies remain. He receives a Tachyon burst from the mechanical care takers he left to tend the original star cluster far from the extreme Edge of the Universe.. the Stars he flippantlly tossed away are still Young and Burning bright.. and he launches himself towards them..
The Mechanical care takers have given up on their Maker and have "discovered" humanity barely clinging to life on its new colony world.
Very 2001 like, or perhaps more a stage is set between a Capricious god-"Like" being and its mechanical creation, and the mechanical creations new found fascination with these beings called "the colonists"... and ever present the man from yesterday. Where will it all lead?
They know something by utoddl · 2014-05-02 02:31 · Score: 2

Sounds like M87's Puppeteers know something and are heading for higher ground.
1. Re:They know something by Anonymous Coward · 2014-05-02 09:05 · Score: 0
  
  Nice reference. You are my favourite person for today.
Hard to imagine cluster holding together... by Thagg · 2014-05-02 02:38 · Score: 3, Interesting

For a three-body slingshot to work, the object would have to get pretty close to one or both of the black holes -- considerably closer than the size of a globular cluster. At that distance, the tidal forces around the black holes would rip the cluster apart. I just can't see this happening.
I suppose it's time to do some simulations :)

--
I love Mondays. On a Monday, anything is possible.
1. Re:Hard to imagine cluster holding together... by Tablizer · 2014-05-02 11:00 · Score: 1
  
  For a three-body slingshot to work...
  Yikes! Do not google that at work without safety settings
  
  --
  Table-ized A.I.
2. Re:Hard to imagine cluster holding together... by MrKaos · 2014-05-03 13:13 · Score: 1
  
  For a three-body slingshot to work...
  Yikes! Do not google that at work without safety settings
  Damn, I wish I could mod that comment funny - and informative!
  
  --
  My ism, it's full of beliefs.
Pedantic rant by gauntlet420 · 2014-05-02 02:47 · Score: 1, Flamebait

a globular cluster of several thousand stars (compressed into a space just a few dozen light-years apart) is being thrown out of galaxy M87.

I always have issues with astronomical articles that say something *is* happening, especially when the observation is of a structure 53.4 million light years away. *Was* happening, sure. *Is* happening? Don't think so...
1. Re: Pedantic rant by Anonymous Coward · 2014-05-02 03:08 · Score: 1
  
  I always have an issue with pedantic neck beards that don't understand that from our pov, it is happening.
How else are the Puppeteers going to escape? by Anonymous Coward · 2014-05-02 03:38 · Score: 0

They tend to think for the long term. Using the black holes was brilliant!
Galaxies create Galaxies? by Anonymous Coward · 2014-05-02 03:41 · Score: 0

So, is this the possibly one way new Galaxies are formed?
In other words by Tablizer · 2014-05-02 03:43 · Score: 2

it got cluster fscked

--
Table-ized A.I.
The Cluster replies, by PPH · 2014-05-02 03:44 · Score: 3, Funny

"I've been thrown out of classier places than this!"

--
Have gnu, will travel.
Galactic Bullying. by geekmux · 2014-05-02 04:25 · Score: 1

"...The star cluster wandered too close to the pair...

"...The black holes then acted like a slingshot, flinging the cluster away at a tremendous speed."
For some reason I'm picturing two bullies who just caught the new freshman kid walking home from school...
Please tell me... by Anonymous Coward · 2014-05-02 04:45 · Score: 0

HVGC stands for High Velocity Galactic Collision! I'm NOT looking it up, in hopes that it does!
Just trying to imagine the chaos going on there, and the mass and velocities involved is well, unreal. Now IS the time to be in Physics and Astonomy!
Why wouldn't the dark matter simply go along? by rsborg · 2014-05-02 07:56 · Score: 1

Another questions is what happens to the speeding cluster if is was flung out by a bigger galaxy. One would assume the the dark matter that originally present in the cluster would not take the same track. Without the supporting dark matter the radial velocities are too great for the outer stars of the cluster to continue orbiting the system. One would think that there should be trail of stars left behind. Could be a great way to investigate dark matter interaction with galaxies.
Why would the dark matter stay when the rest of the cluster goes?

--
Make sure everyone's vote counts: Verified Voting
Easy to understand units by Anonymous Coward · 2014-05-02 08:20 · Score: 1

This handy converter for changing all sorts of units into something easier to understand
http://www.theregister.co.uk/Design/page/reg-standards-converter.html#velocity
tells us that 2,000,000 mph is 29.8225% of the maximum velocity of a sheep in a vacuum.
And this just in by Anonymous Coward · 2014-05-02 16:53 · Score: 0

53.5 Million years ago, the Earth was being bombarded by comets and asteroids constantly, leaving little chance of life to establish. Just imagine what these two galaxies will look like 53.5 million years later ..
Good-bye my Brothers the M87 Earthlings by Anonymous Coward · 2014-05-03 05:07 · Score: 0

Wow, really bad for you guys. See ya around. You should've done like us and done nothing.
You can't be hugged with spiral arms ... by Anonymous Coward · 2014-05-05 08:25 · Score: 0

I wonder what that cluster did to get bounced out of M87. M87 seems like a nice, laid-back galaxy and all, but I guess even light has its limit, so why couldn't M87 get fed up with a rotund little upstart? On the other hand, I suspect that lil' glob is really M87's offspring, and is just being sent out to play. In due time, it'll be pulled back in.
Mythological origin story by Anonymous Coward · 2014-05-06 01:24 · Score: 0

This sounds like the beginning of a story, "The sisters of Set were flung out from the Pantheon, exiled to the void for their role in the great demise."