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Kids To Get the Best CS Teachers $15/Hr Can Buy

theodp (442580) writes "Billionaire-backed Code.org, enthusiastically tweets U.S. Dept. of Education Chief Arne Duncan, is 'providing tremendous leadership in bringing coding & computer science to our nation's schools.' Including bringing kids in Broward County Public Schools the best computer science teachers $15.00-an-hour can buy, according to a document on the school district's website. One wonders how the Broward teachers feel about Code.org apparently coughing up $38.33-an-hour for Chicago teachers who attend the required Code.org professional development, which ironically covers equity issues. Duncan's shout-out comes days after Code.org claimed in its Senate testimony that 'our students have voted with their actions [participating in an hour-long, Angry Birds-themed Blockly tutorial starring Mark Zuckerberg and Bill Gates]: that learning computer science is this generation's Sputnik moment, that it's part of the new American Dream, and that it should be available to every student, in every school, as part of the standard curriculum.'"

22 of 157 comments (clear)

  1. summary is of course very misleading. by raymorris · · Score: 5, Informative

    For those who don't feel like clicking on the linked documents, they aren't talking about teacher salaries, what they earn teaching. The pay also isn't set by code.org.

    When a Chicago teacher spends a couple of hours doing professional development (taking a class or seminar), Chicago pays their teachers $38/hour for the time they spend at the seminar or wwhatever professional development they choose to do. Boward pays their teachers $15/hour for professional development. Those rates are for time doing prof dev, NOT teaching students, and it doesn't have squat to do with code.org - the districts pay for prof dev is the same for any class the teacher wants to take. (Of course it needs to be approved as professional development, a skydiving class probably wouldn't be approved for payment.)

    1. Re:summary is of course very misleading. by aix+tom · · Score: 2

      Might also reflect the cost of living.

      I earn a lot less than others in my field in the bigger cities, but then I also was able to buy a home for 1/3 of the monthly cost of renting one in the bigger cities. And that's in "somewhat small-ish Germany" even.

    2. Re:summary is of course very misleading. by wisnoskij · · Score: 2

      Well considering that this is just a minor benefit in any teachers salary I would disagree. This is just an indication that the teachers union Chicago cared more about this minor benefit than the teachers union in Boward.

      At the end of the year the Chicago teacher, who attended the exact same seminars as the Boward teacher just took home a hundred or two more.
      And the Boward teacher might make thousands more as a base salary (we do not know), or maybe they have better health insurance.

      Or maybe they do make 50% all round, but maybe the cost or living is equally lower.

      --
      Troll is not a replacement for I disagree.
    3. Re:summary is of course very misleading. by nbauman · · Score: 2

      And it must of been a very long time since you have had any schooling in high school or university.

      The curriculum is tight, and specific. Not only is that new discovery not at all going to help you pass a chem exam, but there is no time to teach it.

      Even in university chemistry/physics, they only teach the basics, the stuff that was all carved in stone centuries ago by long dead guys. And they do not even have half a day free time to get into current science news.

      It depends on the school (and the teacher). If your goal is to pass the test, you have a problem.

      If the students will go on to science and medicine, they already know enough to pass the exam. It's the current stuff that helps them understand what they will need to know in life.

      For example, in New York City, Rockefeller University has a Christmas break lecture series in which Nobel laureates give high school students briefings on the current research in their field.

      You talk about how easy it is to be a high school science teacher? The best high school science teacher is a Nobel laureate.

      I admit that if you have schools whose goal is to get students to pass standardized tests, rather than to understand science, then you don't need a science teacher who is current in the field, or even a science teacher. All you need is a proctor who can teach students to memorize textbooks and short answers, from workbooks published by Pearson or McGraw-Hill, based on 10-year-old material.

      Of course, if you do that, you'll have another Sputnik moment, when the U.S. is overtaken by the Europeans and Asians, who (in their best schools) do have a good science education. We've had a few Sputnik moments already. Look at the Nobel prize winners.

      Take a look at the table of contents of Science magazine and count the Chinese names. Even the ads for reagents have pictures of Chinese girls.

  2. Eternally true by paiute · · Score: 2

    You get what you pay for.

    Money talks and bullshit walks.

    --
    If Slashdot were chemistry it would look like this:Cadaverine
    1. Re:Eternally true by paiute · · Score: 2

      Paying too much will attract lousy teachers who just want the pay

      Is this why CEO salaries are at record highs?

      --
      If Slashdot were chemistry it would look like this:Cadaverine
    2. Re:Eternally true by sumdumass · · Score: 2

      What does CEO salaries have to do with teacher pay?

      CEO salaries are tied to performance bonuses and stock options. Their base pay is typically a fraction of what their yearly salary ends up being if their company is profitable. You cannot really pay teachers that way because schools do not issue stocks or make a profit. But a lousy CEO typically doesn't make near the salary that would be considered record high.

    3. Re:Eternally true by sumdumass · · Score: 2

      said bonus targets often being ignored and options repriced so that the CEO cannot lose,

      You have a cite for this? Because there is a legal term for what you just described- embezzlement and it is usually illegal. Not only that, if the company's board of directors authorized it, they open themselves to share holders and could face a lawsuit over a complete misuse of their fiduciary obligations.

      Executive bonuses are generally a fraction of a percent of profit. Sometimes they go a fraction higher if profit increases by a certain amount. This is what drives CEO salaries through the roof when the company is making money.

      As for stock options, they are rigged from the start. All you have to do is make the stock values go up and it is instant profit when you take the options. Often the options are priced at a historical date when they were lower than current anyways.

      I have no idea what you think you finished but it wasn't anything I said. And yes, I typically leave out parts that are lies, misconstrued facts or products of ignorance.

  3. Re:A sputnik moment?? by Concerned+Onlooker · · Score: 5, Insightful

    We are in times where someone who makes a billion developing a social app or game is considered to have done something important.

    --
    http://www.rootstrikers.org/
  4. Re:sputnik moment? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 3, Insightful

    Hey, that's cynical and wrong. It's people looking to lower wages of software developers as well as justify immediate requests for more H1Bs, all while taking away the focus on improving our nation's weak skills in the basics of reading, math, and science.
     
    (Note that cynicism is orthogonal of correctness.)

  5. Re:Broward pays $30/hr for bachelor's degree by damn_registrars · · Score: 4, Informative

    Broward county teachers who have a bachelor's degree average $41,000 salary for the nine-month school year.

    Are you sure they are able to teach with only a BS? I don't know about your area but where I live new teachers can only teach with a master's degree in education. Oddly enough we are even rejecting people who have a PhD in the field they would like to teach, and telling them only a master's in education will do.

    --
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  6. (OT) Professional Development, Chicago-Style by theodp · · Score: 2
  7. Re:sputnik moment? by ganjadude · · Score: 2

    well with seatle setting min wage at 15 an hour, If these people are in seatle, they are saying that coders are worth the same amount as a mcdonalds cashier...

    --
    have you seen my sig? there are many others like it but none that are the same
  8. Instead of whining.... by westlake · · Score: 4, Informative

    ... why not look at what Code.org has to offer?

    This is not a sampling, and it is free to all.

    K-8 Intro To Computer Science Course (15-25 hours)

  9. 15 an hour??? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Insightful

    If you can teach coding, you can get a job making more than 15 an hour. You're only going to get awful teachers at that salary.

  10. Re: CAUTION: New Talent Ahead! by mysidia · · Score: 2

    THIS is how you really do addition in hardware.

  11. Ph.D. != qualified to teach by Immerman · · Score: 2

    It sounds like a perfectly reasonable requirement to me. Having a Ph.D. doesn't qualify you to be a plumber or auto mechanic, so what makes you think it qualifies you to be a teacher?

    Things are somewhat different at the university level because you're assuming that the students are basically adults that have already learned how to educate themselves, and the instructor is there simply as a guide. Plus there are grad students and a tutors around specifically to help them when your guidance is so piss-poor that they can't follow it. There's no shortage of absolutely brilliant researchers doing an utterly incompetent job of teaching at the university level. And that's okay - they can offer their students other things: windows into what makes the field vibrant. The prestige of having taken a class with X, etc.

    When you're talking about educating children though it's a completely different ball of wax. Children aren't just miniature adults, they're inherently different creatures, important aspects of their brain have still only begun to develop, and you can't expect them to educate themselves with minimal guidance as you would an adult.

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    1. Re:Ph.D. != qualified to teach by mysidia · · Score: 4, Interesting

      It sounds like a perfectly reasonable requirement to me. Having a Ph.D. doesn't qualify you to be a plumber or auto mechanic, so what makes you think it qualifies you to be a teacher?

      It's more like you're an Electrical engineering graduate, and a potential employer need some diagrams to be made of potential electrical circuits, BUT they (rejecting your qualifications), insist that only someone with an art/sketching degree is qualified to to put together electric circuit diagrams for their projects.

      Because you have deep knowledge of science or engineering or mathematics or the subject matter, and teaching is a basic skill: just like speaking in public is a basic skill, and an expert in the subject is the most able to provide in depth guidance and genuine learning about the subject.

      The education major who has rudimentary knowledge of math themselves --- trying to teach high school Calculus, perhaps, will not be able to answer student questions or encourage/facilitate/promote any learning that goes outside the teacher's very narrow box, of the teacher's own study of the subject matter.

      If someone is going to teach Biology, I would take the guy who has a P.H.D. in biology, and the proper enthusiasm and skills, over the guy who doesn't have a clue about the subject, but just took courses to learn how to teach.

      You don't need a 4 year degree in Public Speaking, to be allowed to speak at a conference.

      You don't need a 4 year degree in Education, to know how to teach, and you will probably do a better job, since you actually know extremely well, the field that the subject matter you will be teaching is in.

      I prefer QUALIFIED experts in the field they will teach about, FILTERED to include only people who are subjectively good at teaching.

    2. Re:Ph.D. != qualified to teach by cheesybagel · · Score: 2

      Good luck getting a PhD without giving classes to students.

      Plus secondary school students are not little children.

  12. Re:$15/hr is great money by mysidia · · Score: 2

    If you do the math that works out to over $30k a year. Not shabby at all, especially for a teacher.

    We are talking about Broward County, FL. A place with a population exceeding 1 million, and an above average cost of living; fair market rents exceeding $13000 a year, for a 1-Bedroom apartment.

    At $30k a year.. you can just about cover taxes, shelter, food and water, for one adult and some basic necessities.

  13. Re:name the states, please by Phronesis · · Score: 2

    You've been asked twice already to say where this policy supposedly exists. What states are you talking about? I don't want to call BS on your post if some stupid state where liberals don't think about the consequences of their policies actually did something so dumb.

    Since the commenter won't answer your question, here goes: Google points me to the National Council on Teacher Quality's 2013 State Teacher Quality Yearbook, which says that: "Connecticut, Kentucky, Maryland, Mississippi, Montana, New York and Oregon all require a master’s degree or coursework equivalent to a master’s degree" (p. 87).

  14. Re:name the states, please by nbauman · · Score: 2

    As I mentioned in another post, at least one of the states has actually faced reductions in state funding for education, which has resulted in fewer people staffing the dept of education to evaluate teachers for licensing. That doesn't sound like a particularly liberal ideal to me, being as liberals are associated with throwing money at problems with wild abandon.

    When I think of government throwing money at problems with wild abandon, the first image that comes to mind is the Bush Administration sending $12 billion to Iraq in pallets of shrink-wrapped $100 bills and handing them out to contractors and others that nobody can identify. http://www.theguardian.com/wor... I've heard GWB called a lot of things but not a liberal. Maybe wars don't count, but I can think of a lot of other dubious programs that conservatives have thrown money at with wild abandon, like chastity-based sex education, Homeland Security, the war on drugs, the prison system and charter schools.

    I don't consider myself exactly a liberal, but I will defend them (or anybody else) when they're unfairly attacked. I'll also criticize them when they do something stupid.

    The sign that somebody is thinking critically is that he criticizes his own side.