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Did the Ignition Key Just Die?
cartechboy (2660665) writes "Do you still use a metal key to start your vehicle? We already knew this was old tech at this point, but now it might fully be killed off. In the wake of General Motors' 'Switchgate' fiasco, we've heard the CEO tell a Congressional committee that the recall may force GM to ditch ignition keys altogether in favor of push-button systems. If this became a reality, it would end decades of complaints from customers. Bloomberg approximates at least 18,000 complaints have been filed since NHTSA was formed in 1970, peaking at more than 2,000 in the year 2000. Those complaints resulted in roughly 21 million vehicles being recalled. The push-button ignition isn't perfect, but we know electrical trumps mechanical more often than not. Are you ready for an era where the ignition key doesn't exist?"
Are you ready for an era where the ignition key doesn't exist?
If you aren't ready for advancements in technology then what are you doing reading this website?
Seriously.
With a key, you switch it to 1 and can run accessories. You switch it to 2 and the ignition computer is powered. Switch and hold it to 3 and you crank. You decide exactly how to start your engine.
With the newer systems, you just push the button and it decides what to do. You lose the control. What if you want to crank for a while because it won't start? What if you want to switch it to position 2 and push-start a manual transmission car? You can't.
I like the standard keys. And really, just because one manufacturer happened to use a defective part, we lose them? Key switches have been around for decade and are reliable. Just fix the reliability issue in that one model and that's it.
Here's what I'm thinking:
1. We're trading traditional car-stealing techniques for hacking techniques.
2. Now instead of the otherwise mature, reliable technology of a mechanical ignition lock system, we're going to have to worry about zero-day vulnerabilities in a complex system?
3. Another facet of vehicle security: What about the steering lock mechanism? If it's electrically actuated, then what's the point in even having it? It can theoretically be hacked like the rest of the car.
4. Another approach to hacking your way into stealing a car: Manufacturer 'back doors' into the system? I'm thinking there'd have to be some sort of 'manufacturer access' backdoor built into the system, which once uncovered will just make it easier to steal a car.
I'm sure I'll think of more later on but that's what I've got off the top of my head.
Are YOU using the TOOL, or is the TOOL using YOU? Think about it!
Are you ready for an era where the ignition key doesn't exist?"
A physical key still unlocks the doors when the car's battery has died. A physical key doesn't itself have a battery to die, leaving you stranded in a blizzard in the middle of nowhere after you stop to pee on the side of the road. And perhaps most importantly - A physical key doesn't cost some $300 to replace when you drop it in a puddle. If that particular scam doesn't solely account for the auto industry's desire to move to keyless fobs, I have a bridge for sale.
Those recalls were predominantly due to issues which arose as a direct result of companies cutting cost by deliberately making parts weaker, cheaper, less durable, etc. It is simply naive to suggest that these same companies will apply more care or consideration when designing all electrical systems.
All a switch to electronic system will do is replace infrequent mechanical recalls with increasingly more frequent updates of shoddy on-board software. Eventually, drivers will be expected to download and install car software patches themselves. Once again, company costs will be externalized at the expense of quality.
May the Maths Be with you!
Same here!
With an ignition key, I know that I'm in control. If I step out of the car, I'd normally remove the keys (unless there were other passengers already) and do whatever I have to do before returning, knowing that my car would still be there. With the remote, even if I stepped out w/ it, leaving the car unlocked, anybody can just get in and drive some distance. Maybe he won't get far, but the damage would have been done.
Not just your above points, but these remote controls now cost an arm and a leg, as opposed to the standard mechanical keys where you could buy duplicate or triplicate keys depending on how many you needed at reasonable prices.
Those complaints resulted in roughly 21 million vehicles being recalled.
How many of these recalls would not have happened if the manufacturers listened to their own internal reports saying that the parts had problems? We can subtract GM's most recent 2.6 million for a start.
Nice try, trying to blame the key type.
Instead of getting a replacement key for $12.99 now it will cost you $350 for a second key.
The Govt needs to step in and tell them that the MAX cost to customers can not exceed $40 for the transponder and PROGRAMMING fees together.
Honda rips people off with their keyless system $100 programming fee for their tech to spend less than 5 minutes with the tool plugged into my odb-II port.
GM wants in on the rip off action now as well.
Do not look at laser with remaining good eye.
I've driven a BMW 135, X1 with a push button start. And I hate them. Maybe it is different for other manufactures, but here's what happens:
1. I push the fob key into the slot, and I accidentally unlock the trunk.
2. I've got to push some dash start button, which seems to have some kind of timer control. It's not a temporary switch to the starter motor. You can just tap it and it will engage thee stater. I worry what happens when my fuel pump or battery is a few years older and it takes a little longer to start.
3. Turning off the key is another ceremony in hitting a button then pulling the fob out.
If they had it so inserting the fob one click was "acc" a 2nd clock was "on", and pushing it in was "start" for as long as I push it, along with just pulling the whole thing out was "off", where I can start and stop the car in one fluid motion, then we would have something. But I hate this "Japanese tea ceremony" of starting a vehicle. I've got it down to one motion with my tumbler key. I don't want that replaced with an inferior process.
Slashdot's rate-of-post filter: Preventing you from posting too many great ideas at once.
I like the standard keys. And really, just because one manufacturer happened to use a defective part, we lose them? Key switches have been around for decade and are reliable. Just fix the reliability issue in that one model and that's it.
It isn't one manufacturer. There have been over 20 million recalled vehicles due to ignition switch problems, from basically every manufacturer, over the last 30 years.
That doesn't qualify as "reliable" in my book.
Right, because it's not like there's ever been, nor ever will be an issue with push-button ignitions that may incite a recall of millions of vehicles, right?
Wrong.
FYI, contrary to the summary's baseless contention, "Electrical" is not always greater than "mechanical." Otherwise, parking brakes wouldn't still be engaged with steel cables.
An enigma, wrapped in a riddle, shrouded in bacon and cheese
You don't want a car completely reliant on the electrical system. Batteries freeze, cars rust (killing the ground), cars wind up flooded or driven into a lake, weather can produce unseen effects.
I for one, do not want to be in car like that after the electrical system has failed, and you can't even open the damn doors without electricity.
I want a car that I can push start if needed. In fact, the less "electrical" anything there is in a car, the less there is to go wrong.
When you go to a car show, I see a lot of cars from the 50's and 60's -- and you know what I'll see 30 years from now -- the same cars! You won't see "modern cars" sold as classics 30 years from now because once the computer in those cars dies, the car is a paperweight. Nothing works. The engine isn't even capable of running without all those sensors and computers.
I'm rebuilding a '69 beetle right now, and I'll tell you that there's a certain comfort in knowing that I know the entire car, bumper to bumper, there's no mystery about how it operates, and I can fix any piece of it, myself, with common hand tools.
If telephones are outlawed, then only outlaws will have telephones.
This line of thinking – mechanical keys are not perfect and sometimes don't work properly, therefore we must replace them with something else – fails to take into consideration that whatever we replace it with will also not be perfect and will also sometimes not work properly, especially in new and unexpected ways that we are not prepared for. Fact is, the mechanical ignition key is a pretty well-debugged piece of technology. It isn't fundamentally broken, and doesn't need to be "fixed" by throwing it out and hastily replacing it with something else, especially something without a century of usage behind it.
I'll be honest: I'm an old-fashioned person who liked having the ability to shut off a computer by physically opening the circuit that powered it (i.e. flipping a big crimson switch). As a tech, I get frustrated with equipment that has a "power button" that really only serves to put the device in low-power standby mode, such that turning it "off" and back "on" doesn't reinitialize it (requiring me to instead pull the power cable from the wall ... which only works if it doesn't have a battery). The "open the pod bay doors, Hal" approach doesn't give me warm fuzzies, mostly due to experience with the real world where new technology routinely fails to live up to the naïve expectations of the young and/or credulous.
http://alternatives.rzero.com/
The year 1995 just called: "what's a manual transmission?"
Followed by - The year 2050 just called: "what's a transmission?"
Really, if you need to start your car, nothing beats that big old hand-crank over the front-bumper!
These are my friends, See how they glisten. See this one shine, how he smiles in the light.
The cars that I want to drive are EVs. They don't need clutches any more than they need buggy whips.
I drove a car this morning with half a dozen clutches in the transmission, along with a torque converter - which has a clutch in it as well.
How do you think an automatic transmission engages the different gears?
... and how easily it is to do incorrectly. Mechanical doesn't have to mean "bad."
Am I the only one bothered by the fact that my car needs A FEW SECONDS to shut down when being propelled uncontrollably down the road? 68 mph = 100 feet per second. 100kph = 27.8 meters per second.
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How about the ability to turn to "off" to stop an engine affected by a stuck accelerator? Until the start button has a toggle or push button next to it to stop the engine, I don't want one anywhere near my car. And, when I say a button to stop the car, I mean a real kill switch that will ground out the ignition coil(s) or shut off the fuel pump or something similar, or for a diesel shut a fuel solenoid so the engine WILL die.
If I lose power steering or braking I just have to steer or brake harder - ok, it sucks, but if you can't do that you shouldn't be driving. But then, I'm a firm believer that somewhere around 30% of the people on the road should have their licenses taken because they're either physically or mentally unfit to be in control of a vehicle.
>How about the ability to turn to "off" to stop an engine affected by a stuck accelerator?
This is the reason I oppose moving to a push-button system. We've already seen at least one person have an uncontrolled acceleration problem and not have a key to turn off. Push-button HAS to include an emergency cutoff switch. Requiring the user to hold in a button for several seconds to stop the engine is not acceptable.