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Let Spouses of H-1B Visa Holders Work In US, Says White House
Hugh Pickens DOT Com (2995471) writes "Carolyn Lochhead reports in the SF Chronicle that the White House has announced a plan allowing spouses of H-1B visa holders to work in the United States, a coup for Silicon Valley companies that have been calling for more lenient rules for immigrants who come to the United States to work in technology. 'The proposals announced today will encourage highly skilled, specially trained individuals to remain in the United States and continue to support U.S. businesses and the growth of the U.S. economy,' says Deputy Secretary of Homeland Security Alejandro Mayorkas. 'A concurrent goal is for the United States to maintain competitiveness with other countries that attract skilled foreign workers and offer employment authorization for spouses of skilled workers. American businesses continue to need skilled nonimmigrant and immigrant workers.'
Currently, spouses of H-1B visa holders are not allowed to work unless they obtain their own visa but tech companies have been calling for more H-1B visas, and supporters of the rule change argue that it will bring in more talented workers. Critics say they believe expanding the H-1B visa program will allow lower-paid foreign workers to take American jobs. The plan immediately drew fire from Republicans. Sen. Jeff Sessions of Alabama, who sits on the Judiciary Committee, accused the administration of acting unilaterally to change immigration law and bring in tens of thousands of potential competitors with Americans for jobs. 'Fifty million working-age Americans aren't working,' Sessions said in a statement, adding that as many as 'half of new technology jobs may be going to guest workers. This will help corporations by further flooding a slack labor market, pulling down wages.'"
Currently, spouses of H-1B visa holders are not allowed to work unless they obtain their own visa but tech companies have been calling for more H-1B visas, and supporters of the rule change argue that it will bring in more talented workers. Critics say they believe expanding the H-1B visa program will allow lower-paid foreign workers to take American jobs. The plan immediately drew fire from Republicans. Sen. Jeff Sessions of Alabama, who sits on the Judiciary Committee, accused the administration of acting unilaterally to change immigration law and bring in tens of thousands of potential competitors with Americans for jobs. 'Fifty million working-age Americans aren't working,' Sessions said in a statement, adding that as many as 'half of new technology jobs may be going to guest workers. This will help corporations by further flooding a slack labor market, pulling down wages.'"
To getting two H1Bs for the price of one!
These are already being abused by tech companies to force lower wages on those already legally in the USA, be they citizens or resident aliens, this will make it worse.
have a high H1B min-wage / let them work anywhere with them being tied to the job.
make the min wage say 100-150K + COL with payed OT. and or an H1B tax.
So if you want h1b you can use them to get cheap workers tied to the job. that can be payed low with forced OT.
I'm surprised you guys haven't revolted over this entire thing yet. Up here in Canadaland we've had something similar happen with regards to the TFW program, similar to H-1B. Shit hit the fan about 3 months ago and ever since then it's been all over the news and at the rate it's going the entire program will be dead by years end.
Om, nomnomnom...
How about no? Wages are already suppressed far enough as it is without doubling the number of foreigners these companies can bring in.
We don't have a workforce problem. We have a wage problem. Companies will do anything they can to pay people less. Just look how they've already latched on to this H1B BS.
I say end it. Revoke them and send folks home. We have plenty of workers available, just not at rates employers want to pay.
Pardon my single tear for them.
I'm extremely liberal and want the best for everyone in the world. But here in the US, we have horrible social welfare. Work is survival for us. If you don't have a job, you fall fast and hard, and it's hard to get back up. Hell, it's hard to get a place to live without guarantors and evidence of an income, and having a place to sleep and eat safely is fundamental to being a biological being. So I call shenanigans on the government allowing more people in to take jobs. Until we've got a robust safety net in place so everyone has a safe place to sleep and can be confident of their next meal regardless of whether they have a job, our focus should be on getting jobs for all citizens that pay what is needed to have those things.
This. If you set the minimum H1B wage at 120% of the average wage in that area for that type of work and experience, then we can have confidence that the purpose of H1B is to fill skill shortages. By allowing them to be employed for less than the going rate of a local, employers are just encouraged to find loopholes to enable them to employ lower wage workers. And by not tying them to a specific job, you remove the ability of employers to find other ways to abuse the system (such as paying them 120% of the average wage to work 150% of the average hours) since the employee can always go elsewhere.
As for spouses working - if someone is good enough to import for their labour skills, at least have the decency to treat them and their family like you would anyone else. If you think this will have an adverse impact on the local labor market, then you probably shouldn't be letting them in in the first place.
Americans like to talk smugly about how corrupt China and Mexico are. Well guess what, great U S of A is pretty goddamn corrupt.
Facebook and Microsoft want cheaper workers, they lobby the gov't (i.e. grease palms with money) for more H1B. Disney wants to milk more money out of Mickey Mouse, it lobbies the gov't until copyright laws extend for centuries. And please explain how this benefits the public (as opposed to benefitting Microsoft/Disney).
"And by not tying them to a specific job"
This. By tying H1B's to an employer, they effectively become chattel for the employer for the duration of their H1B work - beholden to the company, they have no real negotiating power and this is what really drives wages down (or more accurately, prevents them rising).
My other UID is three digits.
We might be granting too many H1Bs, I don't know. I haven't seen reliable, relevant numbers. That's a separate discussion.
However, IF you're going to allow a couple to come into the country and IF you're going to allow one of them to work, it makes sense to allow the other to work legally. If you don't , they'll probably work illegally, but having them here and not working isn't helpful. As long as they are here, the best thing for America is that they are being productive. It's best that they be doing something useful and then paying taxes like other workers. The other options are that they aren't doing anything productive, in which case they are just an extra incremental load on the infrastructure, or they are working unlawfully and probably not paying their fair share of taxes.
Well, maybe let's have a civil discussion about it. First of all, return H1Bs to what they were supposed to be: A way to get key personnel with unique skills. And sorry, but when I see how certain corporations carpet bomb the relevant fed offices with applications, I can't really believe that to be the reason for them. You really need dozen and dozen of key personnel with skills you can't find here, every single year? Who do you want to bullshit here?
H1Bs are something that should be the exception. It became the rule, though. And that's what's wrong about it. They should be a way to remove a roadblock, to avoid a shortage of people with unique and hard to find skill sets, or to import very specific people who are for some reason very, very important in a certain field. But for the latter to apply to you, if the field was Linux, you better be Linus Torvalds or else you're just not important enough (just to illustrate what I mean with "important in a specific field").
That's what H1Bs are about and that's what they should be used for.
And I could hardly think of anyone having a problem with this, except for some xenophobic hillbillies who fear the dilution of the true American blood.
We used to have a Bill of Rights. Now, with the rights gone, all we have left is the bill.
a lot of high quality IT people I know are gay
A lot of them don't know what their sexual orientation is, because they're unfamiliar with sex.
Sadly I think it's offshoring. If you don't let companies bring workers to the United States they are going to set up shop where the workers live. This has much more negative effects - lower tax base, lower economic activity in the US etc. than letting these workers come here.
Yes it depresses US wages and makes the job market tighter for US citizens. But at least the company still has operations and employees in the US that are paying taxes.
Ideally there would be US citizens working in the US taking these jobs. But non-US citizens working in the US on these jobs is better than non-US citizens working in Bangalore some other non-US location doing these jobs.
If you want to cut down on this, it is absolutely necessary to improve the US education system. What we have now truly sucks, as this OECD report describes:
http://www.oecd.org/site/piaac...
Look, when there are citizens, many of which lead productive lives up to this point, who now have to live on the streets because a bunch of leftists (who call themselves 'liberals') want to play marx on global scales, and/or a bunch of fortune 500s want to bottom out their labor markets, I draw the line. In case you haven't realized, the federal government hasn't had to answer to its citizens in almost 5 decades now at least. I am not responsible for whatever they supposedly did in your country or anywhere else. Perhaps you're right though. Perhaps it is time to pull the plug on the funding that goes overseas. As a tax payer, I am tired of funding these hell holes for the benefit of the relevant fortune 100s you're talking about.
As far as germany goes, you have a very interesting interpretation of history. I'm not sure it's very accurate, but who really knows, right? Each country's citizens can claim the others' media is full of propaganda and it devolves quickly into ad hominem attacks.. While we did poach a number of engineers from the nazis, we sure as hell didn't just attack them to drain them of talent. In fact, we entered the war rather late in the game when we were attacked by the japanese.
I think the whole immigration system needs an overhaul. Like I said, if you come here, that doesn't mean the taxpayer is now responsible to feed, clothe, and educate your family and their extended families (which is what some here are pushing for).
... due to the law of diminishing returns... http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/D...
H1Bs directly reduce wages of technical employees, plus they also displace local contractors who otherwise get much higher hourly rates than employees generally due to the short term nature of the projects and higher skill levels and so on. Even if there is not a lump of labor, there is such a thing as a fixed budget at any point in time.
The US created just about zero net new jobs in the last decade while the population and the GDP grew. So, output is increasing in a 21st century economy while labor stays fixed or declines as a percent of the population.
On top of that, it doesn't matter how much labor is needed if it can be done more cheaply by robots and AIs. And before such replace human workers entirely, they will let a few workers do the work of many, thus increasing unemployment,
There are many possible "solutions" to this situation being tried, which I catalog here:
http://pdfernhout.net/beyond-a...
The real future of work is to make it play and pleasant. See Bob Black and EF Schumacher:
Black: http://www.whywork.org/rethink...
"What I really want to see is work turned into play. A first step is to discard the notions of a "job" and an "occupation." Even activities that already have some ludic content lose most of it by being reduced to jobs which certain people, and only those people, are forced to do to the exclusion of all else. Is it not odd that farm workers toil painfully in the fields while their air-conditioned masters go home every weekend and putter about in their gardens? Under a system of permanent revelry, we will witness the Golden Age of the dilettante which will put the Renaissance to shame. There won't be any more jobs, just things to do and people to do them."
Schumacher: http://www.centerforneweconomi...
"The Buddhist point of view takes the function of work to be at least threefold: to give man a chance to utilise and develop his faculties; to enable him to overcome his ego-centredness by joining with other people in a common task; and to bring forth the goods and services needed for a becoming existence. Again, the consequences that flow from this view are endless. To organise work in such a manner that it becomes meaningless, boring, stultifying, or nerve-racking for the worker would be little short of criminal; it would indicate a greater concern with goods than with people, an evil lack of compassion and a soul-destroying degree of attachment to the most primitive side of this worldly existence. Equally, to strive for leisure as an alternative to work would be considered a complete misunderstanding of one of the basic truths of human existence, namely that work and leisure are complementary parts of the same living process and cannot be separated without destroying the joy of work and the bliss of leisure."
The 1950s short story "The Skills of Xanadu" by Theodore Sturgeon depicts a society powered by mobile computing that has realized both these objectives (especially the first).
http://books.google.com/books?...
https://archive.org/details/pr...
For some comic relief see also the 1950s story "The Midas Plague" where only the very wealthy were allowed to have full-time jobs and work overtime and live in small homes, while everyone else was limited to part-time jobs as best or unemployment and forced consumption of mansions and massive amounts of food and consumer goods at worst..
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/M...
A 21st century issue: the irony of technologies of abundance in the hands of those still thinking in terms of scarcity.
I've seen plenty of people on /. decrying the fact that H-1B workers are horribly underpaid. Having met quite a lot of them, I've yet to discover one that's actually paid any less than their American (or green-card-holding) counterparts.
I myself am in the US on an O-1A visa, and my salary is a little under double that of 70% of the people with the same job ('Software Engineer') within the same company.
On the other hand, I have been told a number of times in my past that though I was good enough for the position overall, I wasn't good enough to merit the overhead of their doing immigration. In other words: "If you were American, we'd hire you, but since you're not, we need to hold you to a higher standard to match our higher outlay to take you on— and you don't quite meet that bar, sorry."
Comment removed based on user account deletion
Look up the lump of labor fallacy. In fact, allow me: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/L... Labor isn't a zero sum game. More immigrants creates more jobs in the system.
Does the H1-B system need reform? Yes
Does the immigration system need reform? Yes
Does the L1 system need to be scrapped? Quite probably
Does slashdot circle jerk without getting the idea? Yep
Am I missing nothing? Yep.
We have gay marriage now and the software scene is still mostly male, unfortunately.
Nobody talks about one really important issue. The H1b is such a strain on a married couple that more than half of the marriages end in divorce during the term of the visa. It is absolute killer. Many of the spouses are university educated and have to abandon their career to sit idly by, get bored. They leave all their friends and family behind back in their country of origin. Sometimes having children solves the problem, but often this takes extreme toll. Same on the visa holder, who gets new job in a new country, doesn't know the conditions, has to support family from a single income in place with no extended family support. And every time you come home, there is your bored spouse ready to jump you and do stuff, while you are tired and want to rest from work. It is a huge strain on couples. Giving EAD to H4 holders while the GC is pending is EXACTLY the change H1b program needs to stop being the marriage killer it is now.
If programs would be read like poetry, most programmers would be Vogons.
As was already stated this is just a ploy for tech companies to abuse the already over abused H1B visa market, and drive wages down even further, because the Chinese will work for peanuts. We had a visiting engineer from China at my job the other day, and in casual conversation he unknowingly gave me enough information to figure out how much he makes a year. His salary comes out to basically McDonald's wages if he were living here in the USA. We were having a conversation about his iPad vs my Galaxy tab, and the engineer told me that " My brother keeps bugging me to buy him an iPad because he only makes 25 Yuan an hour which is half of what I make." So, he basically told me he makes 50 Yuan and hour. So, do the Math at the current rate of 6.23 Yuan to 1 dollar the Engineer makes 8.02/hr. Those are just stupidly poor wages for someone with a computer science degree Chinese or not!
You are operating under a false assumption. You believe the goal of government is to "make America stronger." It is not. The purpose of the government is to serve the interests of wealthy corporations and individuals. Corporations and stockholders, the owning class, want indentured servants (they'd prefer slaves, but there's that pesky 14th amendment). The H1B visa program is just one method by which they acquire these servants.
We don't have a state-run media we have a media-run state.