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Melbourne Uber Drivers Slapped With $1700 Fines; Service Shuts Down

beaverdownunder (1822050) writes "Victoria Australia's Taxi Directorate has begun a crackdown on Melbourne Uber drivers, fining them $1700 each for operating a taxi service illegally, with total fines apparently equalling over $50000. In response, Uber has shut down its Melbourne service, and has refused to comment on whether its drivers will be compensated, since Uber told them they were providing a legal service. (Fined Uber drivers could take the company to the state's consumer tribunal: stay tuned!) Uber is set to meet with the Directorate next week but it is likely the demands the Directorate will place on Uber drivers, such as mandatory criminal record checks, vehicle inspections and insurance, will make the service in Melbourne unviable. Meanwhile, the New South Wales government is awaiting a report to determine if Uber drivers operating in that state are doing so illegally, warning that drivers could face substantial fines if they are found to have been operating in breach of the law. In South Australia, it doesn't even appear Uber will get off the ground — the state has made it clear that those who operate as an Uber driver will be driving without being covered by the state's mandatory insurance coverage, essentially de-registering their vehicle and making them liable for fines and license suspension."

18 of 255 comments (clear)

  1. Death sentence by jrumney · · Score: 5, Insightful

    but it is likely the demands the Directorate will place on Uber drivers, such as mandatory criminal record checks, vehicle inspections and insurance, will make the service in Melbourne unviable.

    Those aren't unreasonable demands of someone wanting to carry passengers for hire. They are checks that pretty much the entire Western world has come up with after numerous problems with unsafe, uninsured and unsavoury taxi drivers. If this is enough to make Uber unviable, then I wouldn't want to be one of their investors.

    1. Re:Death sentence by Threni · · Score: 5, Insightful

      Exactly. I'm surprised this is legal anywhere (well, any developed country). And was it not obviously in breach?

      Users of `look-after-my-child-for-a-few-hours.com` better watch their backs!

    2. Re:Death sentence by putaro · · Score: 5, Informative

      Uber has different levels of service. This appears to be a crackdown on "UberX" which lets anyone drive for extra cash. There's also "Black Car" which uses limousine services (i.e. "Town Cars") which are licensed and insured. That probably remains legal unless there is some problem with them picking up fares anywhere.

      We used Uber Black Car and regular taxis in San Francisco recently. San Francisco taxis have really gone to the dogs - we had one driver who did nothing except talk on the phone and swerved in and out of traffic. The limo drivers were much nicer, the cars were nicer and the price was about the same.

    3. Re:Death sentence by ChunderDownunder · · Score: 4, Informative

      Taxis in Victoria are regulated where each vehicle is licensed by paying tens of thousands of dollars to the state government.

      In such an industry, freelancers won't be tolerated.

    4. Re:Death sentence by spire3661 · · Score: 5, Insightful

      Criminal record check is completely unnecessary. How are convicted felons ever going to find work if we put background checks on everything?

      --
      Good-bye
    5. Re:Death sentence by bluefoxlucid · · Score: 4, Interesting

      In one of our most crime-riddled cities, we engage in the practice of slugging. This amounts to carpooling without speaking: a slug gets into your car and rides along the way, no conversation, no compensation, because you're going the way they want to go.

      Mostly, this has lower risks than taking a taxi. I don't understand why; more rapes, assaults, and robberies happen in bona-fide taxi service. This offends the rational senses.

    6. Re:Death sentence by Electricity+Likes+Me · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Yes heaven forbid we take preventative action before someone gets hurt.

    7. Re:Death sentence by Roblimo · · Score: 4, Informative

      I don't know about you, but my car insurance policy (from The Hartford, through AARP) specifically states that it does *not* cover for-hire car use. Read your policy, and I expect it says something similar. When I had my limo service (note my Slashdot nickname) I had commercial insurance, and a minimum of $1 million instead of the $20,000 a cab was required to have. That $1 million policy cost me a lot less than a cab policy, because owner-operated limos are about the safest form of ground transport there is.

      And when there are fines to be paid, Uber shows its true colors as it acts like the lowest form of taxi company and puts it all on the driver. I remember that bullshit from when I drove a cab in Baltimore.

      The funny thing is, I think Uber is going to be very good for the livery car industry. When I started Robin's Limousine, Boston Coach was working hard to build their Baltimore operation. Customers asked me if I wasn't scared of them and their marketing muscle. "No," I said. "They're doing my marketing for me by selling the idea of a non-cab luxury transport service. All I have to do is be a little bit better and little cheaper, and I'll have the coolest customers. Like you. I notice you're riding with me and not Boston Coach."

      I had a few friends, each with their own livery car or limo, and we covered for each other. The rule of the limo biz is that if you only have 2 customers, it won't be long before both of them need you at the same time, so you'd better team up with other reliable drivers.

      One thing we did, by consensus, was *always* pop a small strip of red carpet for passengers getting in or leaving. That was quite the deal for proms and weddings, but we did it for transport jobs, too. George Clinton (the P-Funk dude) one told me that even though we charged less than most of our competition, he'd pay us extra (and believe me, he was a heavy tipper) because we were better at helping him make an entrance than any other limo company, ever.

      If I hadn't moved off into writing (the limo company was taken over by my friend Charles, who still runs it), I might or might not join Uber today. But probably not. Once cell phones started giving you the first minute on incoming calls for free, I was cool on my own -- really in partnership with Charles. See, you called anyone else and you got an operator.flunky. Call us, and you got a boss. People like that. :)

       

  2. Interfering regulations .. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Funny

    Criminal checks, insurance, vehicle checks .. what is the world coming to when you can't just get in some random fscked up car with an uninsured criminal ?

    1. Re:Interfering regulations .. by clarkkent09 · · Score: 5, Insightful

      You can, nobody is stopping you. But if he charges you for it he will be encroaching on the taxi drivers' turf and cutting the city out of its share of the loot and for that he will be fined and/or imprisoned.

      Occupational licencing in almost every case is nothing but a racket to artificially limit the number of practitioners and keep the prices high and to collect a tax by a different name. At least you can make a bogus safety argument when it comes to driving, but what about hairdressers, photographers, interior designers etc etc all of whom require a licence in many jurisdictions and who have to pay the city or the state an annual hefty fee in addition to taking useless courses and passing tests (more fees) in order to be able to work, despite the fact that many other jurisdictions don't have those requirements with provably zero ill effects. 1 in 3 Americans today are not allowed to work in their profession without a government license.

      --
      Negative moral value of force outweighs the positive value of good intentions.
  3. The historical cycle by hessian · · Score: 5, Insightful

    Step 1:

    Get rid of all regulation.

    Free market, yo.

    Step 2:

    A young girl is murdered and rape in a cab in a horrific fashion.

    The democracy demands solutions!

    Step 3:

    Regulate. When that doesn't work, regulate some more.

    Step 4:

    Prices are high and a de facto exclusive license exists. People notice this is bad and want deregulation.

  4. With apologies to Pink Floyd by Sarten-X · · Score: 5, Funny

    We don't need no regulation
    We don't need no quality control
    No background checks in the taxis
    Melbourne leave those cars alone
    Hey, Melbourne, leave those cars alone!
    All in all it's just another car on the road
    All in all you're just another car on the road

    --
    You do not have a moral or legal right to do absolutely anything you want.
  5. Protectionism by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 4, Interesting

    Once again, big business and government combine to profit at the expense of individuals.

    Nobody asked me if I wanted to pay for all the red tape surrounding taxi services. If I want to take an informed risk, I should be allowed to have that opportunity.

  6. so much unsaid for uber. by nimbius · · Score: 5, Informative

    Uber seems like a libertarian scam at best. You have an unlicensed, unregulated cab service with unverified and wildly variant service levels. Compounding the issue further, youre faced with an entity that assumes the 'fare' it pays you is commensurate enough to ensure your maintenance, upkeep, and fuel costs. While it might be true for a 13 year old crown victoria, Im willing to guess the fare earned for a jaunt across town in some strangers Benz doesnt begin to cover ceramic brakes and ferromagnetic suspension work.

    There is literally nothing in the contract agreements for Uber or even at the government regulatory level that would prevent what essentially amounts to 4chan on wheels from picking you up, driving you to the middle of nowhere, and kicking you out covered in mustard without saying a word. If you lost your phone or wallet in the car, no ones beholden to return it. The automobile provided might even be some dukes of hazard two seater with a supercharger, no seatbelts, and a dead hooker in the trunk and this is all perfectly acceptable based on the terms you agreed to with Uber. And the worst part is that protective measures like a commercial drives license simply dont exist. Your driver could be a meth-addled convict with a bottle of jagermeister between his legs, but since he never had to go through a background check or a drug test or even a physical, the hook he uses to steer the car between epileptic bouts of withdrawal is in Ubers understanding a sterling example of a world class taxi service without the hassle of icky cabs. When he wraps the front end of his 1971 plymouth duster with the missing front brake around a utility pole, nothing in his insurance (should he care to buy some) is required to cover any part of you the paramedics collect from the street as they hustle you to the ER.

    --
    Good people go to bed earlier.
  7. Libertarian view... by bradley13 · · Score: 4, Insightful

    The libertarian view of this: Uber customers know that they are calling a car driven by some random person. If they want to do that, really, it's their own business. If they want the assurance of a background-checked driver, they are also free to call a taxi company. What's wrong with keeping the government out of it and letting people choose?

    --
    Enjoy life! This is not a dress rehearsal.
    1. Re:Libertarian view... by jittles · · Score: 4, Interesting

      Libertarian chooses unregulated cab. Said unregulated cab hits pedestrian. Insurance company of unregulated cab says 'your policy is for personal use only, we are not paying'. Who pays for pedestrian's injuries, the libertarian?

      Why should he? Not like he was driving, nor is the car his property. In the case you describe, the driver is at fault, not the passenger.

      Or are you of the opinion that if you get a ride with a (soon-to-be ex-)friend, and he hits someone, and turns out to have no insurance, that YOU are liable for the injuries?

      That depends. I know someone who sued a passenger in a car for negligence. In this case, the passenger was stone cold sober and let his friend drive him around after having a few too many drinks (blood alcohol more than 3x the legal limit). The driver ran a red light and almost killed my acquaintance. The driver was uninsured and had no assets. The passenger, on the other hand, was insured and had plenty of real world assets. The passenger was at the bar with the driver when they got drunk. The passenger knew the driver was drunk and still let them drive them both around. I can understand someone wanting to hold the passenger accountable for his inaction. In fact, the passenger was held liable. So perhaps the Uber passenger could be liable for the actions of an uninsured driver.

    2. Re:Libertarian view... by bws111 · · Score: 4, Interesting

      Answer the question: who pays to cover the pedestrian? One option is the driver. Of course, if the driver has little assets (and chances are he would not be driving a cab if he was rich), he can't pay. The only other person involved in this wonderful libertarian world would be the passenger. But, of course, HE couldn't be expected to pay. So that leaves only two choices: either the pedestrian himself is responsible for all his bills (including loss of income, etc), or all of society pays (either through the goverment, or through higher insurance rates for everyone). And if random people and/or all of society are going to have to cover the cost of damage inflicted by a cab driver, then all of society damn well has a right to insist, through (gasp) regulations, that the driver of a cab must demonstrate the financial wherewithall to pay for damage he potentially causes (usually by purchasing insurance).

      Your 'friend' example is stupid, because drivers ARE required to carry insurance. If they don't have insurance, society covers the cost, but the driver has violated a law.

  8. Pitfalls of sharing economy by wired_parrot · · Score: 5, Insightful

    This is why I am critical of the sharing economy. It is is the pinnacle of outsourcing where the management (uber, airbnb) reaps the cream of the profits at little risk, while their "subcontractors", so to speak, take the burden of all the risks (legally and financially), while also having to shoulder maintenance and operating expenses. The responsible and ethical move for these companies would be to properly inform these subcontractors the insurance requirements, legal risks, local workplace standards required for operation, and try to assist them if possible to meet these requirements.

    Instead, they prefer to claim ignorance and shoulder all responsibility on their user base. When legal problems inevitably arise, they cast their users/subcontractors adrift, letting them fend for themselves. It's utterly disgraceful.