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SpaceX Injunction Dissolved
An anonymous reader writes "Two weeks ago, SpaceX filed suit against the U.S. Air Force in an attempt to enforce competition for rocket purchases. They argued it was a bad idea to blindly shovel money into Russia's coffers for rides to space, and said there was no way for other rocket manufacturers to get a foot in the door. Last week, it looked like they were getting traction — an injunction was granted, temporarily halting the Air Force's process of buying rockets. Unfortunately for SpaceX, that injunction has now been dissolved. At the heart of the suit was Executive Order 13,661, which blocks the transfer of wealth to people in the Russian Federation who are related to the situation in the Ukraine. SpaceX said that since Russian Deputy Prime Minister Dmitry Rogozin was the head of their space agency, payments to the agency were effectively payments to him. The U.S. departments of Commerce, State, and the Treasury all sent letters to the court saying this was not the case, and the court agreed. Here's the final ruling."
The Obama Administration Screws Over America.
the blocks on russian money is just for show. Does everyone forget the conversation obama and putin had? Something along the lines of wait until after the election and ill have more leeway?? Im not saying that invading ukrane is what they were talking about but, im saying we dont know what he was talking about
Obama and putin are buddy buddy, anything america is doing against russia right now is only to keep the american people happy, its not to actually get results
have you seen my sig? there are many others like it but none that are the same
Elon should start launching spy sats for Russia and China!
"The U.S. departments of Commerce, State, and the Treasury" Isn't this the same administration that is supposed to be supporting US business, and sanctioning Russia re: Ukraine? I really hope the media and less likely the people, bring light to this bullshit and get on SpaceX side.
I don't think Elon expected to win that easy, but look how much publicity he got for filing a simple claim and getting a temporary injunction. He got to say a few times how they are 4x cheaper than the old guys, that might be remembered by some press and politicians the next time there is a big contract up for grabs.
karma police: arrest this man, he talks in maths; he buzzes like a fridge, he's like a detuned radio. [radiohead]
On one hand, i think that SpaceX should get a shot at competing here, but I don't think they should go about it through taking advantage of overreaching executive order.
Kill 13661, let SpaceX bid. Then I'll be happy.
This is my signature. There are many like it, but this one is mine.
They're all almost copies of each other. Sounds like one person drafted this response and handed it out for signatures.
SpaceX said that since Russian Deputy Prime Minister Dmitry Rogozin was the head of their space agency, payments to the agency were effectively payments to him. The U.S. departments of Commerce, State, and the Treasury all sent letters to the court saying this was not the case, and the court agreed
Please nobody get worked up arguing against this statement, because that's not really what their arguments were.
The key phrase from the Judge's ruling is:
These letters collectively explain that, “to the best of [the relevant Department’s] knowledge, purchases from and payments to NPO Energomash currently do not directly or indirectly contravene Executive Order 13,661.”
However, that's not how I read the attached letters at all. The first three all effectively say, "Yes, if Rogozin controls Energomash, that looks like it would qualify, but only the Treasury Department can officially make that call."
The Fourth is actually from the Treasury Department (so its the important one), and it essentially says "it looks like something that technically falls under the order. However, we have to officially say that an entity is blocked before it is, and we don't want to say that about Energomash right now." So basically they get to pick and chose each and every entity to be affected by the Executive Order, and this isn't (yet) one they've picked.
That makes a certain amount of sense. Because all of this comes from an Executive Order, its really up to the "Executive" (the POTUS), and those under him, who or what gets blocked. If we'd like a general rule that can be applied broadly, that's what laws are for.
Laws only exist to punish those who don't make them.
Smart independent business owners are never smarter than the people in Washington. its the koolaid you drink when you get indoctrinated into their club that makes you smrt.
Funny thing is, the way things work in Russia, payments to Russian Deputy Prime Minister Dmitry Rogozin probably really are payments to Dmitry Rogozin.
I get SpaceX's point and I think there is some validity there for competition, but with everything else that is going on with regards to the Russia situation I think the best thing to do would be to keep things as they are. The space program is a more important symbol for peace than I think a lot of people realize or are willing to give it credit for. It's a shame we keep cutting the budget so we can instead burn the money on dumb projects like the F-35.
Thank God. This helps maintain some form of meaningful relationship with Russia and re-enforces humanities space force initiative.
It is good to have some form of redundancy between economies and technology spanning geographies.
I don't think Elon expected to win that easy, but look how much publicity he got for filing a simple claim and getting a temporary injunction.
I'm looking but I'm not finding much.
The truth is that stories like this rarely make the front page or survive a single 24 hour news cycle before they are shoved into the back of the fridge and more or less forgotten.
Conspicuous legal procedures and political gymnastics are part of the Corporate/Government - Lobby/Courts Eco-system. SpaceX must exercise their ability to influence courts' legal authority to be immediately responsive to their trade concerns. My point is that the injunction or its dissolution is not important, but the speed in which they accessed court authority is meaningful.
When SpaceX lawyers make a legal assertion the US Court System prioritizes their concerns and responds immediately. Meanwhile, all other stuff on the court dockets languish in obscurity and red tape. If SpaceX has the legal/political clout to effect immediate response from the courts, then that is what I find most noteworthy. Whether or not their injunction is upheld is less important than their ability to get the government's (and our) undivided attention on the issue of their concerns. Its nice to have corporate clout, since corporations are now people. DemocracyX at work.
The best post on this thread yet.
Well done.
We play the game with the bravery of being out of range
It takes 60 days for a seller to collect their funds off of a ebay/paypal after selling an item. 60 whole days.
By then, one is probably homeless and on the streets, while paypal/ebay collect interest on that homeless person's money.
But Elon Musk has a spaceship!
I read through the final ruling. Its not a ruling. its a sidestep that effectively undermines the executive orders of the president. Each government agency is basically saying that even though executive order 13661 requires them to in no way do any business or pay any money to the russians that they have decided even though Rogozin controls the manufacture of russian rockets that the assorted government agencies assert that they have to first investigate the company in question and they'll let the court know when they get around to it. probably never.
load of crap
Maybe you could comment on what, exactly, you find so terrible about the concept of corporate personhood, and why you believe that concept arose. After you've made an eloquent post defending your position, then you could do a little actual research into it, and maybe make a follow-up post where you reconcile your "Occupy"-like beliefs with reality.
Go. This should be interesting...
"After my election I have more flexibility." -- Obama to Medvedev
In the end they will lay their freedom at our feet and say to us, Make us your slaves, but feed us. - Fyodor Dostoyevsky
"Following that logic, it is even MORE clear that Bush is a sleeper agent."
about all the credit I am going to give him, Obama has the intelligence to at least be a sleeper agent.
but I don't think they should go about it through taking advantage of overreaching executive order.
They didn't. SpaceX requested an injunction to freeze USAF contracting more launches to ULA. They didn't request an injunction on engine purchases from Russia.
The judge decided to add that one herself.
Science is all about firing a drunk pig out of a cannon just to see what happens.
the launches are in the bank. trust us. they said they'll send the negatives any day now...
if this is supposed to be a new economy, how come they still want my old fashioned money?
Musk tries to push his stuff on political argument. Maybe they should try to compete on technical terms? Their competition is Soviet era tech (to be precise, 70's technology) that Russians mantained without much actual R&D investment.
The usual problem people have with corporate personhood is more of a campaign finance issue than anything, and it's obvious that's the problem here, but there were arguments against it before anyone made a big deal of that. I think some of the arguments were based more around the idea of corporations being equal to people and less with the legal ramifications, but there have always been legitimate concerns. Corporate personhood is used to shift blame around, and as we've seen recently in GM's case, it can help people avoid jail time for murder. It's helped con men get away with ruining lives, charging for goods and services then closing up shop and disappearing. The only reason we need it now is that the laws aren't written to apply to corporations, they're written to apply to people. Without corporate personhood, contract law can't be enforced when it involves one or more corporations, because the laws just aren't worded that way. Basically, corporate personhood let us avoid rewriting other laws specifically so they can be applied correctly to corporations, it was the easy way to do things but that doesn't make it the right way.
Problems with corporate personhood long predate the "Occupy" movement, and if you've done any of the research you suggest he does you know that. I'm not saying I have a better idea in mind, rewriting laws to apply to corporations wouldn't be easy, even deciding which ones to change would be a challenge. But you're a fool to think there are no real problems with corporate personhood, especially replying to a post that perfectly describes the result of the most commonly cited problem with corporate personhood; their influence in government.
And before you spout some BS about how people can collectively donate as much as corporations, no, most of us can't. Here's a quick explanation of the situation: The people who decide how much money they will pay us have already decided how much they're going to need for lobbying efforts, and when we spend money fighting against them, they spend more fighting against us, and then pay cuts cover it. Like I said, this is more of a campaign finance issue than a corporate personhood issue, but every individual problem with corporate personhood appears to be a problem with the laws being applied. This is because we've opted for corporate personhood instead of rewriting the laws. The trouble is all we really do is swap the word "person" with "corporation" and that isn't enough, not by a long shot.
My point is that the injunction or its dissolution is not important, but the speed in which they accessed court authority is meaningful.
You request an injunction when speed is essential.
An injunction is a court order requiring a person to do or cease doing a specific action. Temporary restraining orders and preliminary injunctions are temporary injunctions. They are issued early in a lawsuit to maintain the status quo by preventing a defendant from becoming insolvent or to stop the defendant from continuing his or her allegedly harmful actions. Choosing whether to grant temporary injunctive relief is a discretionary power of the court.
There is a balancing test that courts typically employ in determining whether to issue an injunction. The defendant's 5th Amendment due process rights are weighed (heavily) against the possibility of the defendant becoming judgment-proof, and the immediacy of the harm allegedly done to the plaintiff (i.e., how badly does the plaintiff need the injunction). When it is possible, the defendant must always be put on notice of the injunction hearing, and the duration of the injunction is typically as temporary as possible. Additionally, in many jurisdictions, plaintiffs demanding an injunction are required to post a bond.
Injunction
If SpaceX does win the contract next time it's competed (which is likely, given how much NASA is helping them) I wonder how they'll react when some other upstart jumps in and wants their contract voided.
Bullshit politics and why we should never get involved and leave everyone to their fate.
If US should not transfer wealth to anyone related to the situation in the Ukraine, then trade should be halted with Ukraine itself, Russia, but also Germany, and more generally EU, and even US. All that folks are at work in Ukraine right now.
... they are forced by congress and by the circumstances.
Fact is contrary to what you read on the media, SpaceX hasn't managed to actually perform a complete mission and the partial success they have had is ALWAYS with serious issues. If it wasn't for the Canadian arm, the crappy Dragon capsule would never be able to dock with the station. Every time it flies the capsule has issues with thruster freezing ... but you never hear about it on the news.
I see. So it is all the Republicans fault. Surprised you blame Bush. Thanks for clarifying why Saint Obama a.k.a. The Dark Doofus is failing. It is someone else at fault.
Musk is the LOOZER and SpermX Flames Out on the pad.
Ha ha
FU
From a fair challenge like a chickenshit blowhard http://slashdot.org/comments.p...
From a fair challenge like a chickenshit blowhard http://slashdot.org/comments.p...