Microsoft Finally Selling Xbox One Without Kinect

DroidJason1 writes: "Microsoft has unbundled the Kinect from the Xbox One. The unbundled system's price now matches the PlayStation 4. Microsoft is touting 'your feedback' as the reason for this move. Any Xbox One functionality that relies on voice, video, gestures, etc, will not work without a Kinect, and users will be able to purchase a standalone Kinect later this year."

Comments

LOL

[sexconker]

The 180s never cease.

Re:LOL

[NotDrWho]

With the Xbox One, MS has been backpedaling faster than Lance Armstrong approaching a drug-test checkpoint. Suddenly all those bad ideas that were so "essential" are turning into what they were all along: just fucking bad ideas.

Re:LOL

[Anonymous Coward]

And it should still be at least $100 cheaper than the PS4, considering it is inferior (slower GPU, slower RAM, less RAM, no secondary CPU).

Re:LOL

[nine-times]

Not just that, but they're putting the start menu back in Windows. I'm starting to like this new CEO.

Re:LOL

[CanHasDIY]

mod parent up for knowing the difference between pedal and peddle. I do believe this is the first time I've seen it spelled correctly on Slashdot; everyone else thinks it's "backpeddling".

It's a comon error; nothing too loose your shit over...

Re:LOL

[Billy the Mountain]

Yeah but I would think that unbundling would be a form of backpeddling.

Re:LOL

[Ravaldy]

You could be naïve and think that their original strategy to launch the product as a bundle had deeper rooted issues. Issues that would now have been weeded out. What I mean is that it could have been viewed as a good strategy to have a full package but when the public showed disapproval it was already too late to turn around. Months of code had already been written around the Kinect so to release on time they needed to keep it as is. Only later does the team manage to re-write the critical code and allow for a non-Kinect experience.

Re:LOL

[Megane]

It's a comon error; nothing too loose your shit over...

Your right, their's alot of things worse then that.

Re:LOL

[Anonymous Coward]

Now that Bill Gates is back at the helm, I have more hope for Microsoft. Good riddance to Baldmer the sweaty blob.

Re:LOL

[Anonymous Coward]

Xbone
2x AMD "Jaguar" APU quad core module @ 1.75GHz w/Radeon GCN (768 cores)
8GB DDR3 @ 2133MHz (68 GB/s)
32MB eSRAM (109GB/s)

PS4
2x AMD "Jaguar" APU quad core module @ 1.6GHz w/Radeon GCN (1152 cores)
8GB GDDR5 @ 5500MHz (176 GB/s)
ARM secondary CPU for handling background tasks, downloads, video encoding/streaming
265MB secondary DDR3 for background tasks, OS (68 GB/s)

Let it be known that the Xbone's original CPU speed was the same as the PS4, but when they learned of PS4's vastly superior GPU, they bumped it up by 10% in a pathetic attempt to try to bridge the gap. All games are GPU bound, so it was futile.

Correction / FTFY

[brunes69]

s/Your feedback/A massive lack of sales

Re:Correction / FTFY

[rsborg]

s/Your feedback/A massive lack of sales

In Capitalist USA, where dollars = votes, this is the best form of feedback.

Re:Correction / FTFY

[Opportunist]

Well, technically it's feedback. Not only that, but it's also the only feedback they care about.

Re:Correction / FTFY

[sandytaru]

Actually, it is working, because many big companies are reluctant to switch to Win 8 from Win 7 and are still ordering systems with the older OS on it when they can. MS probably hasn't sold as many Windows 8 enterprise volume licenses as they had hoped. And that's why they keep frantically trying to rescue the tainted brand while dribbling in fixes for the things people complained about. Now it's Windows 8.1! Look, we added your start button back. Wait wait now it's 8.1 UPDATE and we finally let you launch to desktop again!

That's just making it more confusing and frustrating for any company who had considered an upgrade to Windows 8, and so they're sitting on their hands waiting for Windows 8.x Super Final We Really Mean It Update.

Re:Correction / FTFY

[UnknowingFool]

The picture is probably worse than MS will admit. Considering that most enterprises Win 8 licenses allow you to install Win 7, I wonder how many true Win 8 licenses are being installed and how many are companies buying Win 8 volume licenses (since MS is offering them cheaper than Win 7) and installing Win 7.

This is what happens

[nwaack]

when you treat optional peripherals as though they were as integral as the controller itself. I'd say that hopefully MS learned their lesson but we all know they haven't.

Too little, too late

[gstoddart]

Starting from when they said there would be an always-on internet requirement (and then there wasn't), and then the whole "no selling of used games policy" (and then there wasn't), Microsoft has more or less annoyed. confused and alienated their potential user base.

Sure, some people will buy it no matter what.

But, for some of us, give us a gaming platform which doesn't need an internet connection, isn't providing an always on internet connected camera, and doesn't handcuff us to how you think we want to use it.

I don't want a gaming platform for Netflix, Hulu, Bing, Dong, Boing, or anything else. I'd also like to be able to play motion controlled games without an internet connection, because I'm not playing on-line games. Ever.

And, if you can't provide that to me, I don't want your product.

At this point, I see more value in buying a spare XBox 360 than even considering the XBone.

Re:Too little, too late

[rsborg]

You should learn how to read. There was never a "no selling of used games policy" and there was never an "always-on internet requirement". The Xbox One would check in with servers once a day to verify software licenses. If you wanted to sell used games, you'd have to use a mechanism to de-list the game from your Xbox One to make that license available for the person who bought it.

If read past the headlines you'd know this. I can't blame you for being confused, having never read the actual articles.

You might want to actually read it yourself: http://www.cnet.com/news/micro...

Parse the words all you like, but MSFT actually wanted to inactivate your console if it didn't phone home every 24 hours - despite the craziness of this idea, the practicality of it was insane - if I took it with me to another state and the trip took > 24h then I couldn't play it. If my internet died for 24+h I couldn't play it. Stupid.

Whoever is heading the Xbox division recently (or is pulling their strings on-high) is a complete moron, or they think you're the product that they're selling to the game manufacturers (or spy agencies).

Re:Too little, too late

[gstoddart]

You should learn how to read. There was never a "no selling of used games policy" and there was never an "always-on internet requirement".

Perhaps you should learn how to use Google?

Because at various times, Microsoft has announced those were (or would be) requirements.

I can't blame you for being confused, having never read the actual articles.

And I can't blame you for being a tool who hasn't really been following this saga. But, nonetheless, I will.

Because you're clearly ill-informed about all of the things Microsoft has said, and then retracted about this console. And, I can assure you, BOTH of those things had been announced and then changed by them.

Re:Too little, too late

[Graymalkin]

Microsoft has more or less annoyed. confused and alienated their potential user base.

Microsoft's big problem with their policies and backpedaling is that people like me simply cannot trust anything they say. Rational buyers aren't now going to run out and buy XBones because there's no guarantee Microsoft won't go back to their original policies once sales improve.

If anything they need to abandon disliked policies and declare publicly with some manner of legal obligation that they will never go back to them. Until then I won't even consider buying an XBone or any subsequent Microsoft console.

Re:Too little, too late

[Dutch Gun]

For the past two console generations (since the original Xbox came out), I've owned every major console brand, but have generally preferred the Xbox. As such, all my games, except for console exclusives, were for Xbox. I found the original Xbox controllers to be superior to Nintendo's or Sony's consoles, and this trend continued until now. MS's "gamer score" was also rather addictive, and was one of their more brilliant ideas of the last generation of consoles. I've also been maintaining a gold account for many years, since most of my friends are on Live, and let's face it, the service was *vastly* superior to the offerings of any other company - of course, for a paid service, it damn well better be.

I may eventually purchase an Xbone, but it might very well come after a PS4, which surprised me. For every Wii or PS3 game, I probably have seven or eight Xbox/Xbox 360 games. I'm thinking about cancelling my Live account (although I recently signed up for another year, so it will be a while), as I rarely seem to play online with my friends these days, preferring solo play.

How did Microsoft lose me as a customer, at least so far?

1) No backward compatibility. I've got a pretty big Xbox 360 library, with a number of games I haven't started/finished or would like to perhaps play again. Backward compatibility would have virtually assured a purchase of an Xbone device, since I know that eventually there will be games on it that I'd like to play. However, I've got to decide now which console in my entertainment center will be displaced by a new console (I've currently got four - all three last gen plus a PS2), and that's my current limit of the switching box I have installed. Microsoft should have stuck with an x86 architecture for the 360, and we'd be able to play all three versions of Xbox games on the latest console with few issues. People argue that compatibility isn't critical (which is admittedly true), since I obviously already have a 360, but I'm literally at the point where I don't have any more room to plug in another console. So now that's just one more device I need to keep connected indefinitely as long as there exists a possibility of wanting to play a 360 game. There's also another message that no backward compatibility sends: we don't care about your loyalty as a customer.

2) Xbox as an advertising billboard. Microsoft decided to heavily monetize their console's connectivity with ads, even for those of us with Gold Live accounts. Either/or, Microsoft. I don't appreciate you double-dipping like that, and every time I see the massive wall of advertisements on every single page of my Xbox One, I get annoyed when I realized that I'm also paying for that service. At this point, I'm largely paying for Microsoft to simply serve me advertisements on my gaming console. Fuck that. Why should I pay hundreds of dollars for another platform that can assault me with non-stop ads between gaming sessions.

3) Disappointing "next-gen" experience. In general, the next-gen experience hasn't really wowed me. Games can barely even render at a full 1080p, for heaven's sake, which I certainly didn't expect of a "next-gen" console at this point. The hard drives are pathetically small, and the Xbone's, of all the idiotic things, is not user-upgradeable (unlike the PS4). It won't take too many installs or downloads before that's all used up, and then you're playing the shuffling game with your drive space.

4) Consumer-unfriendly arrogance. Phone home once per day or your Xbox bricks? Ok, I actually like the idea of being able to install your games and not having to put the disc in for validation. The only practical way to do this is to have an online check to make sure more than one person isn't using the same disc, but this could have been an optional setting, and the way they decided to ram this down people's throat was ridiculous. There was also the specter of killing the used-game market, and frankly, MS didn't have a lot of trust to spare at

Re:Too little, too late

[Anubis IV]

You should learn how to read. There was never a "no selling of used games policy"

People in glass houses shouldn't call the kettle black. When Microsoft first spelled out how the One would work, they made it pretty clear (well, as clear as Microsoft legalese can be) that gamers couldn't sell their games to just anyone. Rather, gamers would only be able to sell their games to participating retailers, and even then, only if the game's publisher had opted-in to allowing resales for copies of that game (and then the publisher could optionally tack a fee onto the transaction too, thus decreasing how much money you get to take home).

Similarly, you couldn't sell it to friends or online folks. The only option would be to give it away to them, and, once again, you could only do so if the publisher had opted-in to allowing game trades between individuals. Oh, and an additional restriction was that each game could only ever be given away one time, and even then, only to people who had been on your friends list for at least 30 days. They also outright prohibited renting of games or loaning of physical copies of games to friends.

Given all of those ridiculous terms and conditions, I can see how you might have been confused and failed to realize that the One had those policies in place when it was first announced. Even so, since you read the actual articles, I'd have hoped for better.

As for the always-on requirement, sure, you can play the pedant by pointing out it only needed to phone home once a day rather than constantly, but that's pointless, since it does nothing to address why the requirement was such a source of contention. The reason it was annoying was because it immediately eliminated a number of valid and legitimate use cases in which gamers wouldn't have a regular connection to the Internet. In the armed forces? Too bad. Internet down for a few days? Too bad. Just moved? Too bad. Traveling? Too bad. Out at sea? Too bad. Vacationing in your summer cabin? Too bad. Don't want to connect devices that have no practical need to be online? Too bad. Don't think a company has any business tracking what you're doing with offline, disc-based, single-player games? Too bad.

And the OP was being kind, since he skipped over all of the indie developer controversies that were around early on after the One's announcement, such as requiring that they work with a major publisher. I also noticed that you didn't address his issues with the always-on camera and that they've since flip-flopped on that requirement as well.

The fact that Microsoft managed to make Sony look good, despite the fact that Sony was in the doghouse with virtually every gamer after all of the PSN stuff a few years back, just goes to show you how badly they messed up with the One's launch.

Disclaimer: I own all three consoles of the last gen, and none of the current gen consoles.

Re:Too little, too late

[Dutch Gun]

As for the always-on requirement, sure, you can play the pedant by pointing out it only needed to phone home once a day rather than constantly, but that's pointless, since it does nothing to address why the requirement was such a source of contention. The reason it was annoying was because it immediately eliminated a number of valid and legitimate use cases in which gamers wouldn't have a regular connection to the Internet. In the armed forces? Too bad. Internet down for a few days? Too bad. Just moved? Too bad. Traveling? Too bad. Out at sea? Too bad. Vacationing in your summer cabin? Too bad. Don't want to connect devices that have no practical need to be online? Too bad. Don't think a company has any business tracking what you're doing with offline, disc-based, single-player games? Too bad.

Well said. I think a lot of folks (apparently including MS execs) tend to fall into a bubble of sorts where they assume that since *they* have ubiquitous access to extremely fast, always-on internet, then *everyone* has access to extremely fast, always-on internet. It's certainly true that *most* people do at this point, but the fact that MS execs basically flipped the bird at anyone who didn't certainly didn't endear them to potential consumers. One more example: my brother works on a tug in Alaska - they currently have a 360 console in their boat, and the original Xbone plan would have ensured that they couldn't use it.

Interestingly, this seems to be in midst of Microsoft's "arrogant" phase (well, more arrogant than usual) - the same time period in which they also dismissed customer feedback about Windows 8 usability. Having seen MS from the inside several times in the past, Adam Orth's comments don't seem out of line for an exec, except that most MS execs have the brains not to post things like that publicly. From his twitter history, Mr Orth obviously enjoyed trolling the internet, yet somehow seemed surprised when the internet eventually raged back. It seems that MS as a company finally figured out that even *they* can't afford to ignore so much consumer feedback or openly mock their customers, and seem to be taking a slightly more humble approach, at least in public. As bad as they are, could you imagine what MS would be like without competition from Sony? Oh, yeah, I can. Just think of the cable companies.

I'm like you - own all three last gen consoles (and all three before that), and none of the current gen. For the first time, my first console might be a Playstation rather than an Xbox, but it will probably depend on who gets the first must-have game.

Re:Microsoft misses the point.

[MozeeToby]

The very same announcement also announced that a Gold membership will no longer be required for streaming services.

Re:Microsoft misses the point.

[LoneTech]

But the fact you can access internet services such as Netflix without having to pay a monthly fee, to access data you are already paying for.

Funny you should mention this.. that's another thing they just did a reversal on.

Why didn't they leave the mic in?

[Daniel Hoffmann]

I personally hate using voice command with eletronics because they can't talk back to me but some people like it, couldn't they have left the mic in? How expensive even is the mic?

Re:Why didn't they leave the mic in?

[drinkypoo]

People didn't not want Kinect over cost. They didn't want Orwell's nightmare in their living room. Half of Orwell's nightmare is still nightmarish.

Re:Why didn't they leave the mic in?

[Dutch Gun]

I personally hate using voice command with eletronics because they can't talk back to me but some people like it, couldn't they have left the mic in? How expensive even is the mic?

Because the mic hardware was originally part of Kinnect. MS would have to create and manufacture a dedicated peripheral device with only a mic instead of the cameras + mic, and then include that or sell it separately. And since all current software was assuming that having a Kinnect meant both the mic and cameras were there, that would have meant rewriting many assumptions that the software is probably currently making, so there's even more cost.

In short, it's not at all practical or cost-effective, especially not for the likely few people who wanted a mic but NOT a camera. The entire point of this move is to shave off costs for those that want nothing to do with the Kinnect. Given the fact that the Kinnect has already proven to be rather unpopular, this sort of investment would simply be throwing good money after bad. If you want voice control (and I mean that in a generic sense, as you've acknowledged that you personally wouldn't even want that feature), get a Kinnect.

Re:Why didn't they leave the mic in?

[Ksevio]

Maybe for some, but probably 90%+ was the cost issue since the PS4 was a cheaper and more powerful alternative.

Re:Get rid of gold acct for Netflix

[Tridus]

They did that just recently as well.

Also, developers weren't focusing on Kinect anyway. Kinect sucks for AAA and core games. It doesn't work for the genres that are the most popular on the system (aka: shooters). Most of the time a game was made for Kinect, it was some other type of game, or something like the attempted Fable game that was a total on-rails disaster.

Re:Microsoft misses the point.

[Opportunist]

And I bet if people who care about that didn't have a PS4 already, that could actually be beneficial for sales.

Re:Microsoft misses the point.

[Anubis IV]

You'll pardon me for not being thrilled that they've finally stopped charging a fee to use services which we already pay for. That they've finally stopped doing something they never should have done is good news, to be sure, but not exactly something to get excited about, given that all of their competitors (e.g. Nintendo, Sony, Apple, Google, Amazon, Roku, etc.) have been doing it the right way from the beginning with their boxes that connect to TVs.

Smart move on their part, but...

[realmolo]

It's too little, too late. Sony has probably won this generation already. The Xbox One isn't a failure, but it is going to be relegated to second place.

If Microsoft REALLY wanted to sell some systems and possibly win the war, they would do away with "Gold" Live! subscriptions, and make the full online experience free-to-all.

Re:Smart move on their part, but...

[gameboyhippo]

And hey, the Xbox360 won last time

The underpowered Wii won last time.

Oh I dunno

[goldcd]

In this context "peddle" seems pretty appropriate.
We tried to peddle something, nobody wanted.
We reversed our unpopular stance by back-pedalling, and now we're back peddling.


Just whilst I'm on the topic, I'm most narked (and I accept alone), in actually *liking* the original "always-on-in-the-cloud" original XBone pitch.
The kinect can just wither and die though - voice was great. Camera...oh I'm sure it looked great in the pitch.
Media stuff looked pretty damn good when I was convinced they were going to sell it as a cable/ADSL streaming trojan Tivo+ box. I've now no idea wtf they were thinking.
Sell an XBone+ with 1080 games and you can refurb the millions you've sold as leased cable boxes.

Re:Get rid of gold acct for Netflix

[JohnNemesh]

If you are indeed a "heavy gamer" you should pass on the XB1. ALL multiplatform games are going to run better on the PS4! DVR? Xbox One is NOT a DVR (except for recording and uploading game clips). The voice controls work...about 80% of the time...be prepared to repeat yourself constantly. FOR GAMING, the PS4 is the one to get. If you are impressed by GIMMICKS, by all means, get an Xbox.

The most conservative machine leads.

[Kalren]

I think it goes to show that the market for consoles has become more conservative. When you compare the PS4, XBone and the WII U(yes the Wii U is a part of the market), the PS4 is probably the most simple in its configuration. It doesn't have extraneous gimmicks like a Kinect camera or Wii U tablet that increase the cost of the system. Sure the controller has a LED and a touchpad,but it's not a huge new way of gaming that leads to more casually focused games.With the PS4, you only really get a box and a controller.

The casual market that Microsoft and Nintendo built their machine to appeal to is already satisfied with their phones and tablets for their day to day fix. And for the majority of gamer in the market for a PS4 or XBone, they also have phones and tablets with a great selection of casual games. So when the choice is given between the different consoles, they choose the one with a more enthusiast focus. Their itch for casual games is already sated. And it doesn't hurt that the PS4 GPU is 30-50% more capable and at the same price as an XBone(Kinect-less SKU).

Re:Microsoft misses the point.

[Anubis IV]

Fair enough.

And yeah, I don't have a horse in this race yet either, though I have all three from the last generation. Even so, I distinctly remember the sour taste in my mouth when I got my 360 and discovered I'd have to pay them for the privilege of viewing Netflix, and then being thankful that I already had my Wii, PS3, and Apple TV hooked up and ready to go.

Re:Microsoft misses the point.

[David_Hart]

Fair enough.

And yeah, I don't have a horse in this race yet either, though I have all three from the last generation. Even so, I distinctly remember the sour taste in my mouth when I got my 360 and discovered I'd have to pay them for the privilege of viewing Netflix, and then being thankful that I already had my Wii, PS3, and Apple TV hooked up and ready to go.

Well, I have a horse in this race and it's already won, been given the ribbon, watered down, fed some oats, and released into a nice pasture to frolic with the mares. It's called a PC and you don't have to worry about bundling, Kinect, being locked out of DLCs (aka Skyrim), etc.

Re:Maverick Meerkat to Trusty Taur

[ArcadeMan]

OS X Mavericks.

Why is everyone complaining?

[ianchaos]

"Always on" issue - gone
Gold Membership to use streaming apps - gone
Bundled Kinect - gone

Almost everything that people have complained about has been removed / improved / fixed. I know there is a long tradition of slamming Microsoft on Slashdot ... almost a sport really, but come on. They are doing exactly what we've been asking them to do and everyone is still bitching about it. I for one commend them for listening to feedback and addressing the issues that we've known were there from the start.

I don't own an XBOX One, I'm a PC gamer, but I have to say I'm impressed to see a company that's willing admit their mistakes...I'm looking at you Nintendo...get your act together.

We told you so MS.

[Karmashock]

Its nice that you've listened... its just too bad that you took this long to actually respond.

Not a console gamer so I can't gauge how this effects anything. I'm PC gamer. The consoles of any brand are an irrelevance to me.

But MS's launch of the One has seemed troubled from the beginning. I do wonder why they bother with it. MS could have done much better simply by releasing an actual MS windows PC with a console form factor and a console GUI dropped on top of the windows OS. That would have given the Xbox One cross platform game compatibility, legacy support for lots of things windows is compatible with an the one is not, given additional utility to MS windows systems that would be able to use things initially designed for the Xbox, and generally given the Xbox a big advantage over the Playstation.

But they decided to go with another divergent incompatible OS with no legacy support even for most older xbox games. Its pathetic.

Every console should be backward compatible with consoles of the same brand. At least build a reasonable emulator into each. And its deeply foolish for MS not to leverage their command of the desktop environment to gain an advantage over Sony.

Re:Terrible Idea

[Dutch Gun]

The Kinect has been mandatory for a while now (including all of initial pre-launch development), yet still most of what we see are horrible, gimmicky Kinect games trying to turn an interesting piece of technology into a game controller, and outside of very specialized types of games (dancing games, exercise trainers, rail shooters, etc), it doesn't work half as good as a standard controller. Developers have been trying for years now to overcome the difficulties with lag and imprecision, and even with much improved hardware in its latest iteration, the Xbone still has significant problems in those areas. In the end, controlling your console with your body is still very much a gimmick, and doesn't justify 1/5th the price of the entire console.

I own a Wii, and I became so sick of having to waggle a stick around during gameplay that I stopped buying Wii titles largely out of fear of how much unnecessary motion-control would be shoved into an otherwise excellent title. What's the point of waggling a stick back and forth when pressing a button accomplishes the same task faster, more reliably, and without straining your wrist? Motion control is a cute gimmick that, despite excellent sales of the Wii, ultimately proved to be more of a hindrance to most games than a help, as evidenced by the fact that no current gen consoles rely on motion control as a core component of their controller functionality.

Motion control is now largely considered to be an ancillary function for game controllers, only used sparingly or judiciously as demanded by the gameplay. I think Kinect should fall into this same category - cool tech, but really not appropriate for most titles. If game developers want to add a few extra features here and there to optionally support the Kinect, or build a specialty title around Kinect since lots of people will still have them, nothing is stopping them from doing so.