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New Battery Tech From Japan Could Supercharge EVs
joe5 writes "Many experts suggest that battery technology is really the key to the future of transportation. Its certainly the key to unlocking Tesla for even further growth. Today, a Japanese startup called Power Japan Plus unveiled a new battery chemistry that could significantly improve transportation batteries. In testing, the recycle-able cell has completed more than 3,000 charge/discharge cycles with virtually no performance degradation, meaning that it could conceivably last the lifetime of a car. They company won't yet provide too many details due to pending patents, and won't even say who its first customer is — but the chemistry requires 'specific and proprietary changes to the nanostructure of the carbon crystals.'"
We all know Ton..I mean, Elon, is bypassing traditional battery technology and finishing up work on his Arc Reactor. Must be for someone else - maybe Apple to tie into Beat headphones so they're not as crappy and overrated as they are now.
PR like this claiming the next breakthrough in batteries has been coming out for years, but what actually makes it to production are basically minor tweaks to existing chemistry.
Inevitably what happens is something keeps the technology from being mass produced, or is too expensive, or simply does not function as advertised.
I hope I'm wrong, but I'm not holding my breath.
What eight years?
I only read 3000 cycles and a possible 300 mile radius which translates into 900.000 miles total lifetime. If that is only 22% true then it would be fine.
nosig today
Quote from the article:
Power Japan says a Ryden cell barely heats up during charge and discharge--it "experiences minimal thermal change" ...
That means there is little electrical resistance, which seems impossible if both electrodes are made of carbon. Metal has low electrical resistance. The electrical resistance of carbon is much higher.
A 2nd quote:
That's another statement about electrical resistance. It says that there is effectively an open circuit between the battery terminals, a very high resistance. The battery would not drain itself. Seems impossible to me.
The writer has a lack of understanding of technology:
And equally important for practicality, the new dual-carbon anode and cathode can both be produced by existing cell manufacturing processes--and require essentially just a single material as input: carbon.
That reduces the number of materials that must be procured for the supply chain, simplifying the entire production process.
The BIG issue is that the battery would not use an expensive, scarce metal: Lithium. The fact that the author doesn't mention that indicates he understands extremely little.
This is even more weird:
Separate from the announcement of the Ryden battery, Power Japan Plus is also working on a new form of carbon that is entirely organic.
The material, known as Carbon Complex, which is made using naturally-grown organic cotton that is then processed using special techniques to control the size of the carbon crystals formed during production.
Early test cells are not produced with the organic carbon, but the company's goal is to create a battery cell that is not only competitive with today's lithium-ion cells but uses entirely organic input materials that can be fully recycled at the end of their life.
That is so confused I decided not to comment on the confusion.
Maybe the entire reason for the article is to find amazingly ignorant investors:
Meanwhile, Power Japan Plus--which has been internally funded until now--is seeking its first investments of private funds.
Long lasting batteries are great but not as important as lower cost and higher capacity to weight ratio...
Exactly. The energy density of these cells are very average at best.
It's nice that they last a long time as that makes them very useful for certain applications, but for EVs that's not the major issue preventing EVs from being more appealing. The major issue is energy density and cost.
Extreme durability might help with the cost aspect as batteries would hold more value for re-use after a car is otherwise useless, but it would be for other applications such as perhaps grid-storage where having batteries that basically last forever would be very useful.
I disagree. This helps EVs in two ways. Once, designers no longer will have to oversize battery packs in anticipation of degradation. (Primarily for series hybrids which will probably come out in combination with the 25 HP wave disk generator....) And as you said, resale value. But resale value is a huge thing, so don't understate it.
Seems to me their claims are contradictory. If the cell doesn't heat up at all during charge/discharge, then it must have very low internal resistance and consequently if there is a short, it will release its energy almost instantaneously and be more, not less, susceptible to thermal runaway and fires (it's carbon after all). No matter how low the internal resistance, the energy when has to go somewhere. Relatively high internal resistance is what makes LiFePO4 cells safe for EV hobbyists - short out a cell and it will heat up and destroy itself, but slowly enough that it won't explode or catch fire. Proprietary lithium chemistries used in commercial EVs have lower resistance and better performance but are much more volatile.
Depends on where/how you live. Quite a few people live in an apartment building or other types of houses where they can't reasonably run a power cord between their home and their car.
Except if batteries last basically forever, having "swapping stations" where a robot replaces your car battery with a fully loaded one becomes a lot more feasible, since you no longer need to worry about the difference in condition between the old and new battery. That, in turn, makes energy density less relevant, which allows smaller batteries, which brings down the costs. And low cost upfront combined with lower costs of operation combined with basically no maintenance needed makes for a very appealing vehicle for lower-income demographics, especially when these cars start appearing for sale used.
Forget magic. Any technology distinguishable from divine power is insufficiently advanced.
Speaking of computers, can't you do what SSDs do: cycle which cells are used first? It's not like a computer-controlled battery needs to take a little from every one; you can drain one, then the next, then the next, and after they're loaded go for the fourth.
Alternatively, you can always use the same cell first; when battery performance becomes unacceptable, just replace the worn-out cells rather than the whole thing. In fact, you could even use different technologies for different cells, since they don't need to produce the exact same voltage in this scenario: focus on cycle count and/or cheap price on the first-used end, and charge density and -longevity on the last resort end.
Forget magic. Any technology distinguishable from divine power is insufficiently advanced.
"Might" and "Could" seem to be very common words in battery development headlines.
Except if batteries last basically forever, having "swapping stations" where a robot replaces your car battery with a fully loaded one becomes a lot more feasible, since you no longer need to worry about the difference in condition between the old and new battery.
That is NOT the major thing holding swapping stations back. To make swapping stations feasible you need a standardized power pack installed in a standardized way compatible with a battery pack swap. This standardization need to be agreed to by a substantial market share of electric vehicle manufacturers - enough to justify the enormous infrastructure costs involved in building out a network of swapping stations. Furthermore there need to be enough electric vehicles already on the road to justify the build out.
Frankly the durability of the battery packs is pretty far down the list of problems with swapping stations.
You're just a statistical anomaly with your anecdotal evidence. Most people barely make it to 75k regardless of brand before replacing something that costs near the $5-7k at which point it's usually cheaper to just buy a new car. Especially luxury car repairs (which the Tesla is at this point) can double that cost not to mention the fact that you need oil changes and other repairs specific to ICE engines (mufflers, control valves, cooling) which again, you won't walk out of a Mercedes garage without $100 for an oil change. Electric motors are not only more resilient, they also require no maintenance, don't need extensive regulators, doesn't need liquid cooling and doesn't produce the heat nor vibrations that cause extra stress on other systems.
Custom electronics and digital signage for your business: www.evcircuits.com
Exactly. Some people expect a grand annoncement that makes it worth throwing away last years model of battery. That hasnt happened, and it wont happen. On the other hand, a big part of what made those comically large brick phones from the 80's so big was total crap batteries. If my smartphone had to run off ni-cad, I wouldnt bother.